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Cop out.If they do, show me.How about giving them a choice rather than FORCING them to go under the military system?
What makes you think they don't have a choice?
The Arab people in Area C and in Gaza have a choice every day whether to "make peaceful protest" cough, cough, cough or to actually make peace.
I posted a link.Generally saving life, peace in the family is an etc.Ok, for peace in the family, what's etcetera?When is it Permitted to Tell a Lie? - OU TorahShow me one in Judaism.
All religions have them...to preserve lives, etc.
Why are You not being specific?
Let's compare it to Islam.
Jewish law "loophole" for a lie is called "change for peace":
It is commanded when one can bring peace between 2 people.
It is allowed to pretend You know little Torah when studying
It is allowed to keep modesty or prevent shame
It is allowed when describing a guest
It is allowed when someone is mourning to "steal their" mind from the moment
It is forbidden when it hurts a person
It is forbidden if You know lying to either side won't make a change.
It is forbidden to further one's religion
It is forbidden to forsake oaths
Q.What is the framework of Islam regarding use of lies and oaths?
Yes. It is. If a Palestinian child is arrested for throwing stones can he choose Israeli civil law? Yes or no.Cop out.If they do, show me.How about giving them a choice rather than FORCING them to go under the military system?
What makes you think they don't have a choice?
The Arab people in Area C and in Gaza have a choice every day whether to "make peaceful protest" cough, cough, cough or to actually make peace.
No. It's not a cop out. The Arab Palestinian people are the only ones who can decide between resistance and peace. They have (collectively) overwhelmingly chosen "resistance" (read: war). And then complain when they get war and military law instead of peace and civilian law. If they want it, they can chose it any day now.
So citizens of Israel fall under Israeli law outside of Israel?
What are Palestinians citizens of?
So citizens of Israel fall under Israeli law outside of Israel?
Israeli citizens fall under Isareli law in all territories Israel controls and is sovereign over in law.
What are Palestinians citizens of?
They declared independence in 1988. So Palestine.
The military courts system
Together with the army and the Civil Administration, the military courts system is the third mechanism by which the State of Israel, as the occupying power, imposes its rule over the Palestinian population in the West Bank. The Oslo Accords established three “areas” in the West Bank. In Area C, Israel holds civilian and security control; in Area B, Israel holds security control while the Palestinian Authority holds civilian control; and in Area A, the Palestinian Authority holds civilian and security control. Despite this, however, the accords stated that the Israeli military courts are also empowered to try any person who committed an offense in Area A, if the offense injured or was intended to injure the security of the West Bank as a whole. This is consistent with the powers granted to the military courts in accordance with the Order regarding Security Provisions (Judea and Samaria) (No. 1651), 5770-2009) (hereinafter: “the Order regarding Security Provisions.”) In practice, therefore, the authority of the military courts extends over any Palestinian resident suspected of involvement in any offense that injures security.
Despite this, however, the accords stated that the Israeli military courts are also empowered to try any person who committed an offense in Area A, if the offense injured or was intended to injure the security of the West Bank as a whole
I can find You millions of taqiyyah links about taqiyyah.I was being specific. Other reasons can be hiding one’s faith when under persecution which also falls under saving of life. Again, not different than Islam despite the canard about it that has become popular.Generally saving life, peace in the family is an etc.Ok, for peace in the family, what's etcetera?When is it Permitted to Tell a Lie? - OU TorahShow me one in Judaism.
All religions have them...to preserve lives, etc.
Why are You not being specific?
Let's compare it to Islam.
Are Muslims allowed to lie for Islamic causes? Taqiyya explained
How many Palestinians WANT to live under Israeli law and jurisdiction? Answer is -- a small minority. So why is it an issue? Can't force them to accept Israeli sovereignty or law so work to get them WHAT THEY WANT. Which is autonomy of SOME form with their own security and justice.
Seems a waste of time to call this apartheid or bias when it's really not..
Need to SUPPORT solutions to getting some autonomy for the Palis both within Israel and in the WORSE conditions elsewhere.
How many Palestinians want ti live under MILITARY LAW? How about ONE SET of laws for all in that one area? Put them ALL under military law.
Nobody wants live under military law. That's why they need to form a RESPONSIBLE govt. One that isn't focused on pushing Israelis into the sea. They HAD a functioning police force during the high point of the PA. And you know how that ended.
Put them all (WHO????) under military law.. Any Israelis in the occupied territories must ALREADY comply with the Security forces there. Not Israels fault that the settlers have easier access to borders and checkpoints.
In fact, Palis with work visas for daily jobs in Israel get a priority at the checkpoints.
That is not the point at all. That is not what I am talking about.
Military law was installed shortly after Israel took those territories. In theory it everyone there. There are significant differences in terms of rights and results.
The Military Courts
It should also be emphasized that although the security legislation empowers the courts in the West Bank to try any person who commits an offense within their area or jurisdiction, in practice the military courts deal solely with cases relating to Palestinian residents. All cases involving settlers who have committed criminal and/or security offenses in the West Bank are brought before the civilian courts within the State of Israel.
Because they are citizens of Israel.. Can't help you with that. All THEIR property, criminal, financial records are filed under Israeli law. They are not "citizens" of the West Bank. All their transactions with govt reside with the State of Israel.
So knock yourself out and fix it.. It's not gonna change the BASIC UNDERLYING PROBLEMS.
So citizens of Israel fall under Israeli law outside of Israel? What are Palestinians citizens of?
You know, sometimes fixing the smaller problems can lead to improvement in larger ones. Ever thought of that?
Can an American with cancer choose the Canadian health care system? No. The test is not whether or not the Canadian system is more "fair" than the American one. The test is whether the person covered falls under the appropriate law.Yes. It is. If a Palestinian child is arrested for throwing stones can he choose Israeli civil law? Yes or no.
Then they should be able to choose Palestinian Law, right?
The military courts system
Together with the army and the Civil Administration, the military courts system is the third mechanism by which the State of Israel, as the occupying power, imposes its rule over the Palestinian population in the West Bank. The Oslo Accords established three “areas” in the West Bank. In Area C, Israel holds civilian and security control; in Area B, Israel holds security control while the Palestinian Authority holds civilian control; and in Area A, the Palestinian Authority holds civilian and security control. Despite this, however, the accords stated that the Israeli military courts are also empowered to try any person who committed an offense in Area A, if the offense injured or was intended to injure the security of the West Bank as a whole. This is consistent with the powers granted to the military courts in accordance with the Order regarding Security Provisions (Judea and Samaria) (No. 1651), 5770-2009) (hereinafter: “the Order regarding Security Provisions.”) In practice, therefore, the authority of the military courts extends over any Palestinian resident suspected of involvement in any offense that injures security.
And why do you have a problem with this? Did you read this carefully and understand it?
Despite this, however, the accords stated that the Israeli military courts are also empowered to try any person who committed an offense in Area A, if the offense injured or was intended to injure the security of the West Bank as a whole
In Area A -- the ONLY cases that can come under Israeli military jurisdiction is if the offense injures or intended to injure, the WHOLE of the West Bank. Things that come to mind would be illegal arms caches hidden in the basement of universities or a rocket factory. Or maybe the Hamas assassination of a Fatah member.
What conditions would "injure the West Bank as a whole"??
It seems to me that all those who fall under security concerns should be treated the same, wouldn’t you agree?Then they should be able to choose Palestinian Law, right?
They are under Palestinian/Jordanian/Ottoman law. Except for security concerns. Which fall to Israel's jurisdiction by treaty (by law). If there were not any security concerns....
Good question and probably deserving it’s own thread.Coyote
Let me ask you some questions. Let's say Israel does annex all of Area C and absorbs all of the Arab Palestinians in that area as citizens of Israel.
How are you going to address those who claim that Israel has unilaterally stolen land and ended the two-state solution?
How are you going to address things like freedom of movement for Palestinians in Areas A and B?
What would you recommend as being a practical and morally correct way of handling those who "resist" the annexation?
It seems to me that all those who fall under security concerns should be treated the same, wouldn’t you agree?
Good question and probably deserving it’s own thread.Coyote
Let me ask you some questions. Let's say Israel does annex all of Area C and absorbs all of the Arab Palestinians in that area as citizens of Israel.
How are you going to address those who claim that Israel has unilaterally stolen land and ended the two-state solution?
How are you going to address things like freedom of movement for Palestinians in Areas A and B?
What would you recommend as being a practical and morally correct way of handling those who "resist" the annexation?
It wasn’t meant to. I already posted my link. I would think Islamic scholars would be more knowledgeable on the topic...just as Jewish scholars are on matters of Judaism.
Another link that doesn't prove Your point?
You're suspiciously vague about answering my questions.
I would actually like some answers.
About peace agreements as strategy of Islam's holy war (Jihad),
about Oslam's obligations to an oath, and about Islam's use of deception to spread religion.
