ALLAH – the Moon God

[emilynghiem]

Dear HaShev: I think you and I would agree if we stuck to CONCEPTS.
I AGREE what you and I DON'T want is anything where there is falseness, ill will, corruption etc., which is what Satan, Antichrist, False Prophet represent.

So clearly both you and I are AGAINST anything that is harmful, false, inconsistent, corrupted etc. Regardless of the labels for these FALSE wrongful things, Biblical or made up outside.
What they represent is something false harmful and wrong, so clearly we BOTH object
to those CONCEPTS.

I believe what is TRUTH and just and consistent
you and I would AGREE on.

I apologize if the terms you and I use are causing this confusion.
Can I ask again that you and I refrain from using those terms. I agree to drop them completely
and start over.

Can we stick to what we agree is true, and START from there.
Let's use CONCEPTS we agree are good and true, and then you tell me
what terms/symbols you use or do not use for those, and we start there to
AVOID CONFUSION>

Do you believe that faith in JUSTICE TRUTH and PEACE are the basis of
people's beliefs. Can we start from that?

Most ppl I know have some faith in truth or justice. The desire for truth and justice
(and peace) drives the human conscience to try to seek better, as a general rule.
Even when people get things twisted and do wrong, they are seeking peace and
avoidance of anything related to fear, suffering or conflict they don't want. So the
drive toward truth justice and peace is still the motivating influencing.

Since you don't agree with anything here, but are objecting left and right:
What DO you believe and where do YOU want to start?
Let's start over with what you believe is true and the rest you object to is clearly false.

Can we start there please? You would be much easier to follow.
Thanks!

Emily,
1) you were warned about the first fallen Messiah.
2) you were warned about what Rome was doing in their era not future era.
3) you were warned about the image they created
Ezekiel 28.
4) you were warned not to put other gods or Idols over the God of Abraham.
5) one of the figures used to make that forbidden
image warned that you'd come in his name and call him christ and deceive many. The tense is him speaking thus the word "I" is about himself not another future person claiming to be Christ.
6) he didn't say he was son of man, Rev 1:13 he's
like unto (emulating) son of man .
Christians strive to he like unto christ are not christs themselves.
7) addressing your comment:
Antichrist will come in the name of Christ.
This comes from poor reading of tenses I described where in point 5. Rome made the character anti the anointed priests and came claiming to he an anointed teacher thus fits your commentary as anti christ coming as a christ.
8) notice anywhere it says anointed your NT uses Christ to place Jesus in yet not in Ezekiel 28:14-15where son if perdition (Lucifer) is called
anointed (Christ) Cherub(guardian=Nazarene in Hebrew)
and deemed perfect(sinless). The only person let alone prophet ever deemed oerfect was the Jesus image therefore Jesus who is the only messiah that came first is the only one who can be Lucifer, because anyone coming second can never be first and nobody can ever be arrogantly called perfect except the father of all lies making such an image.

This is not debateable because it is what itcis whether you like it or not or whether you did bad on your S.A.T. and IQ test when it came to sequences questions 1st is still first and then after xan never be first, whether you get it right or not.

My response to Tyrone might help answer some of that curiosity.
Regarding that to much left or right, I like to use an analogy I created;
if you take the people who's zealous faith make them radically evil and put them on a lineal string to the end right and put the anti religious anarchists on the extreme left of the lineal string and bring the two ends together to make a globe circle then the overly zealous religious element and overly anti law anti religious elements would be on the same side of the spectrum while the moderate practical middle will be on the total opposite side.

Hi HaShev you are still judging people by affiliation and groups.
What I recommend is identifying WHICH issues/groups that EACH PERSON
* can forgive
* cannot forgive
So if people can forgive Obama and Democrats, for example, they can work on those things
but people who CANNOT forgive these aren't ready to work with those people, followers or groups

What matters is not their label so much as what we can forgive or cannot forgive.
(in other words, the labels YOU use to tell me which are the problem groups or people
tells me about YOU and what YOU can or cannot forgive; it's not about the people you
name, because they will spout off their own list of whichever THEY can or cannot forgive
and work with. each person identifies their OWN issues, not "what's wrong with others.")
I find this to be the determining factor in where we stand on issues, and what we are ready to change or not. What you tell me about "other groups" is really about YOUR internal workings.
And same with them, they identify their issues by how they label or blame this or that group.

Better yet, if we can take on the very issues/groups we have "the most trouble forgiving"
if we unblock that barrier and open the door, then a lot more things can change.
Especially when this compels the next person to let go of the unforgiveness and ill will,
open up and agree to work together. We can hate the problems, but if we hate and divide
as neighbors it is a lot harder to get anything done to solve the problems we hate so much.

 

[HaShev]

Emily, you are taking the discussion off course, but let's go there.
1) no I believe affiliation labels are deceptive, individual beliefs and morals don't always jive with their group they label themselfs as or born into.
2) forgiveness can be a free get away with sin card if the guilty do not know or even try proper Teshuva.
Teshuva consists of three basic steps:
1)Admitting one's sin(s). This step is called vidui. 2)Feeling regret that one sinned.
3)Making a commitment not to repeat the sin.
4th is to make restitutions when possible.
You can't forgive those who know they are doing wrong, willingly do wrong, don't have regret or remorse of doing wrong, repeat the wrong act and intend to repeat the act.
Remember my post of deplorable Christian forum replies? Many had the opportunity to recognize their wrong doing and apologise. Not one apologised nor did they make an effort to recognize it as a sin nor did they stop from repeating that sin. The free get away with sin card you carry is in the backwards ideology that you are saved and forgiven just by being in the Jesus viker gang thus affiliation thinks it can do what it wants and be forgiven by showing their membership card.
That is where the hippy attitude of blanket forgiveness (without proper teshuva) is harmful and not practical in the real world.
Example: We forgave the church for the crusades but then they repeated the sin during the Inquisition.
We forgave them for the Inquisition, nothing got resolved so they influenced and repeated the behavior during the Holocaust.
Another Example: People eventually forgave the Baath party Sunnis for the treatment of Kurds and Shiites, so without Teshuva they in turn repeated the sins attacking a offshoot sect of Kurds and now Shiite majority Iraqi gov't.
Sometimes you have to be willing to be unpopular through educating the wrong doers with unpopular TRUTH. To Speak out and teach the way things are and should be instead of complacency, burying your head in the sand or humoring them by giving them what they want to hear (like a politician would do).
I BELIEVE THIS IS REFERRED TO AS THE REFINERS FIRE.

 

[tyroneweaver]

14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:

Actually if you do some research it's not God, it's the angel(messenger) of the Lord. Also it's a verb, so the term is not "I am that I am" it's more likely
"I am what will be" as in telling you where the message and messenger comes from (olam habah) "the world to come" [heaven].

God which is not a man nor form requires a spokesman/mediator messenger hence angel of the Lord. Nor does a non form non person have a literal name we speak of, just many descriptions mistakinglt refered to as names. LIKE THE DESCRIPTIVE Essence which is named in the Holy city of YeruShalem (city of Shalem).
Shalem means completeness and wholness, so that Essence power in life is that nature to progress to all we could and should be=evolve. Hence God creates order from chaos means taking that disorder and bringing it to order as in all it could and should progress to be...hence I am what will be signifies I will become that completeness and wholeness=what will be (evolve to).
Judaism was always a trashumanist religion, transforming us to be all we could and should.

Glad I don't have to jump thru your hoops for something as simple as the Bible.

 

[HaShev]

Hoops? I'm from Philly originally, what do we know about hoops? (Joke about the mere 2 wins the Sixers have)
Seriously what hoops, I've said many times if you had no Ability to readcthe Bible the Holy City's name alone holds the Cliff notes to everything.
The name defined holds the purpose and Essence of life,
thus path, allows us to know whats in line or
opposition.
Allows us to know right or wrong, good or bad
without subjective opinions. That is why the city is
our focus and beacon. The legend of the city becoming the city of peace holds the Bible's whole good cop bad cop story of the 2 guardian messiahs, the messenger of death and the messenger of life.
One City's name with everyrhing you need right there all this time.
And who but the city built on the mounds of the dead (catacombs) doesn't want you to focus on life and YeruShalem?
The loser of the story.