Almost half of Americans work in low paid jobs

[Markle]

Another great example of GOP misinformation and spin. From your link....
compared to a year earlier, the numbers show Canada added a healthy dose of 353,000 new positions almost all of which were full time. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Sean Kilpatrick. Sean

Canadian economy posts biggest monthly job loss since financial crisis
Craig Wong The Canadian Press Published Friday, December 6, 2019 8:50 AM ESTLast Updated Friday, December 6, 2019 1:28 PM EST

OTTAWA -- The Canadian economy posted its biggest monthly job loss since the financial crisis in November, pushing the unemployment rate higher and raising the possibility the Bank of Canada may cut interest rates next year.

Statistics Canada said Friday the economy lost 71,200 jobs last month and the unemployment rate rose four-tenths of a percentage point to 5.9 per cent to its highest point since August 2018 when it hit six per cent.
[...]
Canadian economy posts biggest monthly job loss since financial crisis

Isn't Canada being run by far-left Liberals?

Only You brainwashed functional morons think one month means something. They have 350,000 more jobs than this time last year. From your link. How many times do I have to tell you, brainwashed functional moron?

They also have a living wage free healthcare paid parental leave cheap college and training just like every other modern country but us thanks to you idiots and your scumbag leaders.

What is their unemployment rate and what is ours today?

Yeah, they have "free" inferior health care.

 

[Flopper]

So stupid, why should I pay more to try and move the country backwards.

As for our manufacturing...it is doing just fine.

View attachment 293507

80% of the jobs lost in manufacturing were lost to automation and process efficiency. Those jobs are never coming back, as they should not. I have read a study that put forth the idea that Six Sigma cost more jobs than we lost to China.

80% of the jobs lost in manufacturing were lost to automation and process efficiency

Bullshit

the millions of manufacturing jobs lost to china are being filled by chinese not robots

You are clueless once again, doing nothing but parroting the party talking points.

Don’t Blame China For Taking U.S. Jobs

"The study reports as well that trade accounted for 13% of the lost U.S. factory jobs, but 88% of the jobs were taken by robots and other factors at home."

"Investment in automation and software has doubled the output per U.S. manufacturing worker over the past two decades. Robots are replacing workers, regardless of trade at an accelerating pace."


Why do you think that there was no drop in output while there was a drop in employment?

Employee numbers started dropping in 2000

View attachment 293513

yet there was only a tiny dip in output that recovered with in 2 years.

View attachment 293516

Mac-7.... Gater, is entirely 100% correct on this point.

The vast vast majority of job-loss has came from automation. The only place where jobs in manufacturing has increased, is in China, where the price of labor is so low, that it is actually profit-losing to automate.

In Mexico even, most of the manufacturing plants being built are more automated than those in the US.

Manufacturing is not dying, and manufacturing jobs will never cease to exist..... but they will also never be a major force in the US economy.

Now that isn't to say that foreign companies helped in this process. Most certainly Unions made their respective companies un-competitive on the market, relative to the non-union foreign companies.

Even within our own country, we see the rise of non-union steel companies, overtaking the union ones. Nucor for example is non-union, and slowly edging out US Steel in steel production.

So Unions certainly helped to wipe out jobs, relative to non-union foreign companies, clearly harmed employment.

However, the bottom line is that automation wiped out more jobs, than anything China did.

And even if we blocked all trade with China, it would never bring those jobs back.

If they brought iPhone production to the US, it would be entirely automated. You wouldn't have tons of high paid manufacturing workers, doing it.

We have millions of low education workers who are not suitable for high tech manufacturing

But they still need jobs

And we need to keep more of the $350-500 billion going to china in America

If automation is the future I want it in America rather than in china

I want the robots designed and manufactured here as well as put to work here

The problem is it will still be a huge loss to total jobs in the US. Can we stop it, do we stop it? I don't think that's possible.

One of our customers had plastic parts made for a product they mostly sold through Walmart. Walmart got on their ass about producing it even cheaper. So they turned to the factory that was producing the plastic parts. The plastic place couldn't make them any cheaper because as time went on, they didn't invest in technology. So our customer had us pick up the die, and take it to another customer of ours who did stay with the times. They've been making the plastic parts since; for about four or five years now.

The old plastic place called us to make a delivery to another customer for them. When I went back, it was a shell of what it used to be like. Most of the lights were off, just a few people around. Back in the day, there were tow motors running around all over the place. Employees frantically trying to label the boxes to get ready for shipment. Docks full and a line of us in the street waiting to get in. They couldn't work fast enough. Just a real shame.

The world economy is not as simple as your example. Everyone knows the iPhone comes from China. However, it is only assembled in China. Components are manufactured all over the world. The glass screen, audio chips, and wifi chips are manufactured in the US. Japan manufactures the compass, the camera, and LCD screen. The Gyroscope is manufactured in Switzerland. China manufactures the battery. However, it doesn't stop there. Most of the memory and processor chips in the iphone are manufactured in South Korea and the US. The iPhone is designed in the US as are a number of the major components. Most of the advertising for Apple products comes from the US. Apple products are sold in over 500 Apple stores in 25 countries and also sold in in over 10,000 retailers worldwide.

The assembly, manufacture, and marketing of the iPhone is a perfect example of capitalism in action. Contractors are selected based on quality, and cost. The result is a device that if created entirely in the US would cost 3 to 5 times the current cost and quality would most likely be less.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

80% of the jobs lost in manufacturing were lost to automation and process efficiency

Bullshit

the millions of manufacturing jobs lost to china are being filled by chinese not robots

You are clueless once again, doing nothing but parroting the party talking points.

Don’t Blame China For Taking U.S. Jobs

"The study reports as well that trade accounted for 13% of the lost U.S. factory jobs, but 88% of the jobs were taken by robots and other factors at home."

"Investment in automation and software has doubled the output per U.S. manufacturing worker over the past two decades. Robots are replacing workers, regardless of trade at an accelerating pace."


Why do you think that there was no drop in output while there was a drop in employment?

Employee numbers started dropping in 2000

View attachment 293513

yet there was only a tiny dip in output that recovered with in 2 years.

View attachment 293516

Mac-7.... Gater, is entirely 100% correct on this point.

The vast vast majority of job-loss has came from automation. The only place where jobs in manufacturing has increased, is in China, where the price of labor is so low, that it is actually profit-losing to automate.

In Mexico even, most of the manufacturing plants being built are more automated than those in the US.

Manufacturing is not dying, and manufacturing jobs will never cease to exist..... but they will also never be a major force in the US economy.

Now that isn't to say that foreign companies helped in this process. Most certainly Unions made their respective companies un-competitive on the market, relative to the non-union foreign companies.

Even within our own country, we see the rise of non-union steel companies, overtaking the union ones. Nucor for example is non-union, and slowly edging out US Steel in steel production.

So Unions certainly helped to wipe out jobs, relative to non-union foreign companies, clearly harmed employment.

However, the bottom line is that automation wiped out more jobs, than anything China did.

And even if we blocked all trade with China, it would never bring those jobs back.

If they brought iPhone production to the US, it would be entirely automated. You wouldn't have tons of high paid manufacturing workers, doing it.

We have millions of low education workers who are not suitable for high tech manufacturing

But they still need jobs

And we need to keep more of the $350-500 billion going to china in America

If automation is the future I want it in America rather than in china

I want the robots designed and manufactured here as well as put to work here

The problem is it will still be a huge loss to total jobs in the US. Can we stop it, do we stop it? I don't think that's possible.

One of our customers had plastic parts made for a product they mostly sold through Walmart. Walmart got on their ass about producing it even cheaper. So they turned to the factory that was producing the plastic parts. The plastic place couldn't make them any cheaper because as time went on, they didn't invest in technology. So our customer had us pick up the die, and take it to another customer of ours who did stay with the times. They've been making the plastic parts since; for about four or five years now.

The old plastic place called us to make a delivery to another customer for them. When I went back, it was a shell of what it used to be like. Most of the lights were off, just a few people around. Back in the day, there were tow motors running around all over the place. Employees frantically trying to label the boxes to get ready for shipment. Docks full and a line of us in the street waiting to get in. They couldn't work fast enough. Just a real shame.

The world economy is not as simple as your example. Everyone knows the iPhone comes from China. However, it is only assembled in China. Components are manufactured all over the world. The glass screen, audio chips, and wifi chips are manufactured in the US. Japan manufactures the compass, the camera, and LCD screen. The Gyroscope is manufactured in Switzerland. China manufactures the battery. However, it doesn't stop there. Most of the memory and processor chips in the iphone are manufactured in South Korea and the US. The iPhone is designed in the US as are a number of the major components. Most of the advertising for Apple products comes from the US. Apple products are sold in over 500 Apple stores in 25 countries and also sold in in over 10,000 retailers worldwide.

The assembly, manufacture, and marketing of the iPhone is a perfect example of capitalism in action. Contractors are selected based on quality, and cost. The result is a device that if created entirely in the US would cost 3 to 5 times the current cost and quality would most likely be less.

However as reported, the components of the iPhone are manufactured in China as well. We don't have the availability to manufacture them here unless some major changes are made. Even if we did, it would make no business sense to ship those components to China, have it constructed there, and ship it back.

I never said it would cost three to five times as much, I posted a link where it was analyzed and documented that it would cost twice as much. Not bad if an iPhone was two hundred bucks, but iPhones are a thousand bucks. That means to have them manufactured here, an iPhone would cost two thousand dollars.

 

[Slyhunter]

TTEC pays $18.50 an hour to sit on your ass and talk on the phone.

 

[Flopper]

You are clueless once again, doing nothing but parroting the party talking points.

Don’t Blame China For Taking U.S. Jobs

"The study reports as well that trade accounted for 13% of the lost U.S. factory jobs, but 88% of the jobs were taken by robots and other factors at home."

"Investment in automation and software has doubled the output per U.S. manufacturing worker over the past two decades. Robots are replacing workers, regardless of trade at an accelerating pace."


Why do you think that there was no drop in output while there was a drop in employment?

Employee numbers started dropping in 2000

View attachment 293513

yet there was only a tiny dip in output that recovered with in 2 years.

View attachment 293516

Mac-7.... Gater, is entirely 100% correct on this point.

The vast vast majority of job-loss has came from automation. The only place where jobs in manufacturing has increased, is in China, where the price of labor is so low, that it is actually profit-losing to automate.

In Mexico even, most of the manufacturing plants being built are more automated than those in the US.

Manufacturing is not dying, and manufacturing jobs will never cease to exist..... but they will also never be a major force in the US economy.

Now that isn't to say that foreign companies helped in this process. Most certainly Unions made their respective companies un-competitive on the market, relative to the non-union foreign companies.

Even within our own country, we see the rise of non-union steel companies, overtaking the union ones. Nucor for example is non-union, and slowly edging out US Steel in steel production.

So Unions certainly helped to wipe out jobs, relative to non-union foreign companies, clearly harmed employment.

However, the bottom line is that automation wiped out more jobs, than anything China did.

And even if we blocked all trade with China, it would never bring those jobs back.

If they brought iPhone production to the US, it would be entirely automated. You wouldn't have tons of high paid manufacturing workers, doing it.

We have millions of low education workers who are not suitable for high tech manufacturing

But they still need jobs

And we need to keep more of the $350-500 billion going to china in America

If automation is the future I want it in America rather than in china

I want the robots designed and manufactured here as well as put to work here

The problem is it will still be a huge loss to total jobs in the US. Can we stop it, do we stop it? I don't think that's possible.

One of our customers had plastic parts made for a product they mostly sold through Walmart. Walmart got on their ass about producing it even cheaper. So they turned to the factory that was producing the plastic parts. The plastic place couldn't make them any cheaper because as time went on, they didn't invest in technology. So our customer had us pick up the die, and take it to another customer of ours who did stay with the times. They've been making the plastic parts since; for about four or five years now.

The old plastic place called us to make a delivery to another customer for them. When I went back, it was a shell of what it used to be like. Most of the lights were off, just a few people around. Back in the day, there were tow motors running around all over the place. Employees frantically trying to label the boxes to get ready for shipment. Docks full and a line of us in the street waiting to get in. They couldn't work fast enough. Just a real shame.

The world economy is not as simple as your example. Everyone knows the iPhone comes from China. However, it is only assembled in China. Components are manufactured all over the world. The glass screen, audio chips, and wifi chips are manufactured in the US. Japan manufactures the compass, the camera, and LCD screen. The Gyroscope is manufactured in Switzerland. China manufactures the battery. However, it doesn't stop there. Most of the memory and processor chips in the iphone are manufactured in South Korea and the US. The iPhone is designed in the US as are a number of the major components. Most of the advertising for Apple products comes from the US. Apple products are sold in over 500 Apple stores in 25 countries and also sold in in over 10,000 retailers worldwide.

The assembly, manufacture, and marketing of the iPhone is a perfect example of capitalism in action. Contractors are selected based on quality, and cost. The result is a device that if created entirely in the US would cost 3 to 5 times the current cost and quality would most likely be less.

However as reported, the components of the iPhone are manufactured in China as well. We don't have the availability to manufacture them here unless some major changes are made. Even if we did, it would make no business sense to ship those components to China, have it constructed there, and ship it back.

I never said it would cost three to five times as much, I posted a link where it was analyzed and documented that it would cost twice as much. Not bad if an iPhone was two hundred bucks, but iPhones are a thousand bucks. That means to have them manufactured here, an iPhone would cost two thousand dollars.

I said it would cost 3 to 5 times as much if entirely manufactured in the US. That's because no one nation can do everything the best which is the basis for free trade which allows each nation to do what it can do best. The multinational companies like Apple have discovered this. Of course, there is no pure free trade because tariffs, monopolies, and other mechanisms distort the market in one way or another, to protect jobs, businesses, and government bureaucracies. I don't say this good or bad, but rather a fact of life in world live in.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Shows how hollow the Trump economy is

Almost half of Americans work in low-wage jobs

America's unemployment rate is at a half-century low, but it also has a job-quality problem that affects nearly half the population, with a study finding 44% of U.S. workers are employed in low-wage jobs that pay median annual wages of $18,000.

Contrary to popular opinion, these workers aren't teenagers or young adults just starting their careers,

Well, we could turn to Communism or strict Socialism, then everybody's poor, except the political inner-circle.
Most jobs fall into the category of "service industry employment." Such jobs as retail sales, custodial work, factory line labor, landscaping, et cetera, fall into this category. Somebody has to fill in those spots and if they were to be paid high wages for their labor, YOU the consumer, would scream that you couldn't afford their services or products, as the companies would have to raise the cost of the products significantly to continue making a profit, after all, that's why people start their own companies, to make profit and provide more for their families.
As for your figure of $18,000 as a mean annual wage. I don't know where you get your figures from, but for Americans, the average annual mean income between the ages of 25-34 is really about $41,000+. Of course, this depends on the area one is from. The Department of Labor statistics also doesn't support your claim of $18,000, unless you are specifying some specific employment.
Migrant pickers make lousy incomes, however, if you had to pay every migrant picker a $15.00 per hour wage for his/her labor, you couldn't afford to eat.

 

[Mac-7]

At times liberals demand that American companies pay everyone a “living wage”

Then at other times they complain that American workers get paid more than the chinese

Nobody is complaining that American workers get paid more than the Chinese, they are just stating the facts of the matter.

No, that is not true. There are many many many left-wingers that complain about companies overseas, paying their employees less.

But they are not complaining that American workers get paid more than the Chinese.

Actually they are calling for American workers to be paid less

if not then they want Americans to lise their job due to cheap imports from china

You have no clue. Democrats want a living wage and investment in education and training for 7 million tech jobs now going begging. Of course that would mean taxing the rich and giant corporations their fair share and that is impossible as we all know, right, brainwashed functional moron?

I believe you want to soak the rich and corporations so that you can hire more candidates for the leftwing teachers unions

But preparation for high tech jobs begins in kindergarten not at age 32 or whatever

If you want to move able bodied libs off welfare end welfare first

That will do more to incentivize adults to better themselves than workfare ever can

 

[Mac-7]

Shows how hollow the Trump economy is

Almost half of Americans work in low-wage jobs

America's unemployment rate is at a half-century low, but it also has a job-quality problem that affects nearly half the population, with a study finding 44% of U.S. workers are employed in low-wage jobs that pay median annual wages of $18,000.

Contrary to popular opinion, these workers aren't teenagers or young adults just starting their careers,

Well, we could turn to Communism or strict Socialism, then everybody's poor, except the political inner-circle.
Most jobs fall into the category of "service industry employment." Such jobs as retail sales, custodial work, factory line labor, landscaping, et cetera, fall into this category. Somebody has to fill in those spots and if they were to be paid high wages for their labor, YOU the consumer, would scream that you couldn't afford their services or products, as the companies would have to raise the cost of the products significantly to continue making a profit, after all, that's why people start their own companies, to make profit and provide more for their families.
As for your figure of $18,000 as a mean annual wage. I don't know where you get your figures from, but for Americans, the average annual mean income between the ages of 25-34 is really about $41,000+. Of course, this depends on the area one is from. The Department of Labor statistics also doesn't support your claim of $18,000, unless you are specifying some specific employment.
Migrant pickers make lousy incomes, however, if you had to pay every migrant picker a $15.00 per hour wage for his/her labor, you couldn't afford to eat.

That is a misassumption

Farm labor represents only a tiny portion of the price of food in the grocery store

$8-$15 an hour would add a little but not as much as you think if we limit the same food imports from mexico where they also pay low wages

 

[Mac-7]

80% of the jobs lost in manufacturing were lost to automation and process efficiency

Bullshit

the millions of manufacturing jobs lost to china are being filled by chinese not robots

You are clueless once again, doing nothing but parroting the party talking points.

Don’t Blame China For Taking U.S. Jobs

"The study reports as well that trade accounted for 13% of the lost U.S. factory jobs, but 88% of the jobs were taken by robots and other factors at home."

"Investment in automation and software has doubled the output per U.S. manufacturing worker over the past two decades. Robots are replacing workers, regardless of trade at an accelerating pace."


Why do you think that there was no drop in output while there was a drop in employment?

Employee numbers started dropping in 2000

View attachment 293513

yet there was only a tiny dip in output that recovered with in 2 years.

View attachment 293516

Mac-7.... Gater, is entirely 100% correct on this point.

The vast vast majority of job-loss has came from automation. The only place where jobs in manufacturing has increased, is in China, where the price of labor is so low, that it is actually profit-losing to automate.

In Mexico even, most of the manufacturing plants being built are more automated than those in the US.

Manufacturing is not dying, and manufacturing jobs will never cease to exist..... but they will also never be a major force in the US economy.

Now that isn't to say that foreign companies helped in this process. Most certainly Unions made their respective companies un-competitive on the market, relative to the non-union foreign companies.

Even within our own country, we see the rise of non-union steel companies, overtaking the union ones. Nucor for example is non-union, and slowly edging out US Steel in steel production.

So Unions certainly helped to wipe out jobs, relative to non-union foreign companies, clearly harmed employment.

However, the bottom line is that automation wiped out more jobs, than anything China did.

And even if we blocked all trade with China, it would never bring those jobs back.

If they brought iPhone production to the US, it would be entirely automated. You wouldn't have tons of high paid manufacturing workers, doing it.

We have millions of low education workers who are not suitable for high tech manufacturing

But they still need jobs

And we need to keep more of the $350-500 billion going to china in America

If automation is the future I want it in America rather than in china

I want the robots designed and manufactured here as well as put to work here

The problem is it will still be a huge loss to total jobs in the US. Can we stop it, do we stop it? I don't think that's possible.

One of our customers had plastic parts made for a product they mostly sold through Walmart. Walmart got on their ass about producing it even cheaper. So they turned to the factory that was producing the plastic parts. The plastic place couldn't make them any cheaper because as time went on, they didn't invest in technology. So our customer had us pick up the die, and take it to another customer of ours who did stay with the times. They've been making the plastic parts since; for about four or five years now.

The old plastic place called us to make a delivery to another customer for them. When I went back, it was a shell of what it used to be like. Most of the lights were off, just a few people around. Back in the day, there were tow motors running around all over the place. Employees frantically trying to label the boxes to get ready for shipment. Docks full and a line of us in the street waiting to get in. They couldn't work fast enough. Just a real shame.

The world economy is not as simple as your example. Everyone knows the iPhone comes from China. However, it is only assembled in China. Components are manufactured all over the world. The glass screen, audio chips, and wifi chips are manufactured in the US. Japan manufactures the compass, the camera, and LCD screen. The Gyroscope is manufactured in Switzerland. China manufactures the battery. However, it doesn't stop there. Most of the memory and processor chips in the iphone are manufactured in South Korea and the US. The iPhone is designed in the US as are a number of the major components. Most of the advertising for Apple products comes from the US. Apple products are sold in over 500 Apple stores in 25 countries and also sold in in over 10,000 retailers worldwide.

The assembly, manufacture, and marketing of the iPhone is a perfect example of capitalism in action. Contractors are selected based on quality, and cost. The result is a device that if created entirely in the US would cost 3 to 5 times the current cost and quality would most likely be less.

Merely by assembling the phone in the US would drive the cost up 3to 5 times?

I find that hard to believe

 

[Mac-7]

Nobody is sneering, they are pointing out the facts.

And yes, the price is important. I do not personally give a flying fuck where something is made, I am buying the best combination of price and quality. Why would anyone knowingly and happily pay more for something when they do not need to?

You do not seem to be a fan of capitalism.

Do you pay more than your bill when you go to the grocery store?

We do need to pay more for products like the iPhone in order to maintain our manufacturing base

So stupid, why should I pay more to try and move the country backwards.

As for our manufacturing...it is doing just fine.

View attachment 293507

80% of the jobs lost in manufacturing were lost to automation and process efficiency. Those jobs are never coming back, as they should not. I have read a study that put forth the idea that Six Sigma cost more jobs than we lost to China.

80% of the jobs lost in manufacturing were lost to automation and process efficiency

Bullshit

the millions of manufacturing jobs lost to china are being filled by chinese not robots

You are clueless once again, doing nothing but parroting the party talking points.

Don’t Blame China For Taking U.S. Jobs

"The study reports as well that trade accounted for 13% of the lost U.S. factory jobs, but 88% of the jobs were taken by robots and other factors at home."

"Investment in automation and software has doubled the output per U.S. manufacturing worker over the past two decades. Robots are replacing workers, regardless of trade at an accelerating pace."


Why do you think that there was no drop in output while there was a drop in employment?

Employee numbers started dropping in 2000

View attachment 293513

yet there was only a tiny dip in output that recovered with in 2 years.

View attachment 293516

Mac-7.... Gater, is entirely 100% correct on this point.

The vast vast majority of job-loss has came from automation. The only place where jobs in manufacturing has increased, is in China, where the price of labor is so low, that it is actually profit-losing to automate.

In Mexico even, most of the manufacturing plants being built are more automated than those in the US.

Manufacturing is not dying, and manufacturing jobs will never cease to exist..... but they will also never be a major force in the US economy.

Now that isn't to say that foreign companies helped in this process. Most certainly Unions made their respective companies un-competitive on the market, relative to the non-union foreign companies.

Even within our own country, we see the rise of non-union steel companies, overtaking the union ones. Nucor for example is non-union, and slowly edging out US Steel in steel production.

So Unions certainly helped to wipe out jobs, relative to non-union foreign companies, clearly harmed employment.

However, the bottom line is that automation wiped out more jobs, than anything China did.

And even if we blocked all trade with China, it would never bring those jobs back.

If they brought iPhone production to the US, it would be entirely automated. You wouldn't have tons of high paid manufacturing workers, doing it.

I dont deny that automation cost jobs

But not 80%

100% of the jobs lost to china are being done by humans not robots

If assembling the iPhone in America means 100% automation whats wrong with that?

The robots will belong to America

and there are plenty of secondary jobs designing, manufacturing and servicing the machines

Plus china would be denied much of the $350-500 billion dollars it collects from the US economy now

Its all good

 

[Mac-7]

.

 

[Mac-7]

No, that is not true. There are many many many left-wingers that complain about companies overseas, paying their employees less.

But they are not complaining that American workers get paid more than the Chinese.

Actually they are calling for American workers to be paid less

if not then they want Americans to lise their job due to cheap imports from china

You have no clue. Democrats want a living wage and investment in education and training for 7 million tech jobs now going begging. Of course that would mean taxing the rich and giant corporations their fair share and that is impossible as we all know, right, brainwashed functional moron?

So why didn't they do that during 16 years of Clinton and Obama?
Is it because Dems are useless twats?

For the billions time, troll, No it is because the scumbag GOP twat party obstructed everything that could be called progress... Duh. You want a diagram? Under GOP reconciliation and filibuster rules, the GOP needs 51 votes in the Senate to cut taxes on the rich and screw everyone else over. While the Democrats need 60 to pass reform. You are the biggest waste of time on the board.

You are a difficult person to have a civil discussion with

I guess that being insulting is part of you defense mechanism

 

[Mac-7]

Actually they are calling for American workers to be paid less

if not then they want Americans to lise their job due to cheap imports from china

You have no clue. Democrats want a living wage and investment in education and training for 7 million tech jobs now going begging. Of course that would mean taxing the rich and giant corporations their fair share and that is impossible as we all know, right, brainwashed functional moron?

So why didn't they do that during 16 years of Clinton and Obama?
Is it because Dems are useless twats?

Or maybe because during those 16 years, the GOP controlled at least one side of Congress for 12 of them. And god knows the GOP does not want any of those things.

So the Dems were useless twats for 4 of those years?
And all the years before Reagan, under Carter, LBJ, JFK, Truman and FDR when Dems controlled
all 3 branches?

Pretty much. Is this a shock to you? Not like you beloved GOP has done much more.

Both major parties are part of the same corrupt washington swamp

you cant throw rocks at the democrats without hitting a few republicans

 

[Harpy Eagle]

You have no clue. Democrats want a living wage and investment in education and training for 7 million tech jobs now going begging. Of course that would mean taxing the rich and giant corporations their fair share and that is impossible as we all know, right, brainwashed functional moron?

So why didn't they do that during 16 years of Clinton and Obama?
Is it because Dems are useless twats?

Or maybe because during those 16 years, the GOP controlled at least one side of Congress for 12 of them. And god knows the GOP does not want any of those things.

So the Dems were useless twats for 4 of those years?
And all the years before Reagan, under Carter, LBJ, JFK, Truman and FDR when Dems controlled
all 3 branches?

Pretty much. Is this a shock to you? Not like you beloved GOP has done much more.

Both major parties are part of the same corrupt washington swamp

you cant throw rocks at the democrats without hitting a few republicans

Yet you are blindly loyal to one and hate the other one...odd.

 

[Mac-7]

So stupid, why should I pay more to try and move the country backwards.

As for our manufacturing...it is doing just fine.

View attachment 293507

80% of the jobs lost in manufacturing were lost to automation and process efficiency. Those jobs are never coming back, as they should not. I have read a study that put forth the idea that Six Sigma cost more jobs than we lost to China.

80% of the jobs lost in manufacturing were lost to automation and process efficiency

Bullshit

the millions of manufacturing jobs lost to china are being filled by chinese not robots

You are clueless once again, doing nothing but parroting the party talking points.

Don’t Blame China For Taking U.S. Jobs

"The study reports as well that trade accounted for 13% of the lost U.S. factory jobs, but 88% of the jobs were taken by robots and other factors at home."

"Investment in automation and software has doubled the output per U.S. manufacturing worker over the past two decades. Robots are replacing workers, regardless of trade at an accelerating pace."


Why do you think that there was no drop in output while there was a drop in employment?

Employee numbers started dropping in 2000

View attachment 293513

yet there was only a tiny dip in output that recovered with in 2 years.

View attachment 293516

Mac-7.... Gater, is entirely 100% correct on this point.

The vast vast majority of job-loss has came from automation. The only place where jobs in manufacturing has increased, is in China, where the price of labor is so low, that it is actually profit-losing to automate.

In Mexico even, most of the manufacturing plants being built are more automated than those in the US.

Manufacturing is not dying, and manufacturing jobs will never cease to exist..... but they will also never be a major force in the US economy.

Now that isn't to say that foreign companies helped in this process. Most certainly Unions made their respective companies un-competitive on the market, relative to the non-union foreign companies.

Even within our own country, we see the rise of non-union steel companies, overtaking the union ones. Nucor for example is non-union, and slowly edging out US Steel in steel production.

So Unions certainly helped to wipe out jobs, relative to non-union foreign companies, clearly harmed employment.

However, the bottom line is that automation wiped out more jobs, than anything China did.

And even if we blocked all trade with China, it would never bring those jobs back.

If they brought iPhone production to the US, it would be entirely automated. You wouldn't have tons of high paid manufacturing workers, doing it.

We have millions of low education workers who are not suitable for high tech manufacturing

But they still need jobs

And we need to keep more of the $350-500 billion going to china in America

If automation is the future I want it in America rather than in china

I want the robots designed and manufactured here as well as put to work here

Well we do. As stated, manufacturing has not disappeared. In fact, it was a record year 2018, in manufacturing. If we rounded up the entire manufacturing sector of the US into a separate country, it was have a GDP of $1.9 Trillion, or be 8th largest economy in the world.

Nevertheless, the solution to more manufacturing in the US, is more trade, not less trade.

A trade war will not making more products be manufactured in the US, but rather fewer.

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

Nearly all international companies make more money outside the US. Nearly all.

The US might be the single largest market, but if you consider outside the US as being a combined market, then the US is not the largest market.

The largest market, is the other 7 Billion + people on the planet.

If you force any company to choose between having a manufacturing plant in the US, that only serves the US market, or a manufacturing plant that is outside the US the serves the 7 Billion+ people in the world market.....

Which would you choose? Well I can tell you where anyone with any intelligence would choose... they would choose to build for the international market.

We need to stop making out like the US is this indispensable market. In the 50s, it most certainly was. 60s and 70s, not quite as much. But now after Capitalism has brought billions of people above poverty around the world, we are simply not the one and only market in the world, that everyone must be a part of.

If you force companies into a "our market or the worlds market", it will soon be the worlds market, and not ours.

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

do GM and other global companies still ant the benefits and protection afforded by the US flag?

i bet they do as they cozy up to our biggest enemy

why should Americans care how much money GM makes in china since it is not benefiting them?

But now after Capitalism has brought billions of people above poverty around the world,

That is not a compelling argument for me

we sacrificed some of our wealth through the Marshall Plan and allowed the euros and japanese to grow at our expense

But the Cold War is over and we cannot lift the whole world out of poverty on the backs of Americans

 

[Harpy Eagle]

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

do GM and other global companies still ant the benefits and protection afforded by the US flag?

i bet they do as they cozy up to our biggest enemy

why should Americans care how much money GM makes in china since it is not benefiting them?

But now after Capitalism has brought billions of people above poverty around the world,

That is not a compelling argument for me

we sacrificed some of our wealth through the Marshall Plan and allowed the euros and japanese to grow at our expense

But the Cold War is over and we cannot lift the whole world out of poverty on the backs of Americans

Those companies make more money outside of the US than inside because there are more customers outside of the US than inside it.

How does it harm America for GM to sell their cars all around the world?

How does it harm America for McDonalds to sell their shitty food to people in other countries?

 

[francoHFW]

Nobody is complaining that American workers get paid more than the Chinese, they are just stating the facts of the matter.

No, that is not true. There are many many many left-wingers that complain about companies overseas, paying their employees less.

But they are not complaining that American workers get paid more than the Chinese.

Actually they are calling for American workers to be paid less

if not then they want Americans to lise their job due to cheap imports from china

You have no clue. Democrats want a living wage and investment in education and training for 7 million tech jobs now going begging. Of course that would mean taxing the rich and giant corporations their fair share and that is impossible as we all know, right, brainwashed functional moron?

I believe you want to soak the rich and corporations so that you can hire more candidates for the leftwing teachers unions

But preparation for high tech jobs begins in kindergarten not at age 32 or whatever

If you want to move able bodied libs off welfare end welfare first

That will do more to incentivize adults to better themselves than workfare ever can

in countries with successful middle classes, people are trained for tech jobs all the time cheaply. What are you babbling about? LOL

 

[Mac-7]

Mac-7.... Gater, is entirely 100% correct on this point.

The vast vast majority of job-loss has came from automation. The only place where jobs in manufacturing has increased, is in China, where the price of labor is so low, that it is actually profit-losing to automate.

In Mexico even, most of the manufacturing plants being built are more automated than those in the US.

Manufacturing is not dying, and manufacturing jobs will never cease to exist..... but they will also never be a major force in the US economy.

Now that isn't to say that foreign companies helped in this process. Most certainly Unions made their respective companies un-competitive on the market, relative to the non-union foreign companies.

Even within our own country, we see the rise of non-union steel companies, overtaking the union ones. Nucor for example is non-union, and slowly edging out US Steel in steel production.

So Unions certainly helped to wipe out jobs, relative to non-union foreign companies, clearly harmed employment.

However, the bottom line is that automation wiped out more jobs, than anything China did.

And even if we blocked all trade with China, it would never bring those jobs back.

If they brought iPhone production to the US, it would be entirely automated. You wouldn't have tons of high paid manufacturing workers, doing it.

We have millions of low education workers who are not suitable for high tech manufacturing

But they still need jobs

And we need to keep more of the $350-500 billion going to china in America

If automation is the future I want it in America rather than in china

I want the robots designed and manufactured here as well as put to work here

The problem is it will still be a huge loss to total jobs in the US. Can we stop it, do we stop it? I don't think that's possible.

One of our customers had plastic parts made for a product they mostly sold through Walmart. Walmart got on their ass about producing it even cheaper. So they turned to the factory that was producing the plastic parts. The plastic place couldn't make them any cheaper because as time went on, they didn't invest in technology. So our customer had us pick up the die, and take it to another customer of ours who did stay with the times. They've been making the plastic parts since; for about four or five years now.

The old plastic place called us to make a delivery to another customer for them. When I went back, it was a shell of what it used to be like. Most of the lights were off, just a few people around. Back in the day, there were tow motors running around all over the place. Employees frantically trying to label the boxes to get ready for shipment. Docks full and a line of us in the street waiting to get in. They couldn't work fast enough. Just a real shame.

The world economy is not as simple as your example. Everyone knows the iPhone comes from China. However, it is only assembled in China. Components are manufactured all over the world. The glass screen, audio chips, and wifi chips are manufactured in the US. Japan manufactures the compass, the camera, and LCD screen. The Gyroscope is manufactured in Switzerland. China manufactures the battery. However, it doesn't stop there. Most of the memory and processor chips in the iphone are manufactured in South Korea and the US. The iPhone is designed in the US as are a number of the major components. Most of the advertising for Apple products comes from the US. Apple products are sold in over 500 Apple stores in 25 countries and also sold in in over 10,000 retailers worldwide.

The assembly, manufacture, and marketing of the iPhone is a perfect example of capitalism in action. Contractors are selected based on quality, and cost. The result is a device that if created entirely in the US would cost 3 to 5 times the current cost and quality would most likely be less.

However as reported, the components of the iPhone are manufactured in China as well. We don't have the availability to manufacture them here unless some major changes are made. Even if we did, it would make no business sense to ship those components to China, have it constructed there, and ship it back.

I never said it would cost three to five times as much, I posted a link where it was analyzed and documented that it would cost twice as much. Not bad if an iPhone was two hundred bucks, but iPhones are a thousand bucks. That means to have them manufactured here, an iPhone would cost two thousand dollars.

I said it would cost 3 to 5 times as much if entirely manufactured in the US. That's because no one nation can do everything the best which is the basis for free trade which allows each nation to do what it can do best. The multinational companies like Apple have discovered this. Of course, there is no pure free trade because tariffs, monopolies, and other mechanisms distort the market in one way or another, to protect jobs, businesses, and government bureaucracies. I don't say this good or bad, but rather a fact of life in world live in.

To the extent that it involves red china its bad

maybe no one cares but china managing its economy to dominate the world

whstever we can do go slow that down is a good thing

 

[Mac-7]

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

do GM and other global companies still ant the benefits and protection afforded by the US flag?

i bet they do as they cozy up to our biggest enemy

why should Americans care how much money GM makes in china since it is not benefiting them?

But now after Capitalism has brought billions of people above poverty around the world,

That is not a compelling argument for me

we sacrificed some of our wealth through the Marshall Plan and allowed the euros and japanese to grow at our expense

But the Cold War is over and we cannot lift the whole world out of poverty on the backs of Americans

Those companies make more money outside of the US than inside because there are more customers outside of the US than inside it.

How does it harm America for GM to sell their cars all around the world?

How does it harm America for McDonalds to sell their shitty food to people in other countries?

The way you put it does not hurt America

but it doesent help Americans either so GM is on their own when china turns on them

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The way you put it does not hurt America

but it doesent help Americans either so GM is on their own when china turns on them

It does help Americans.

The money they make there helps keep them in business here.

Some of the cars sold there are made here.

Many Americans have GM stock in the 401ks and other retirement vehicles...thus GM doing well helps them that way.