Am I losing my faith or just becoming more realistic?

That brings up back to Epicurus

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If bad stuff happens and God doesn't prevent them from happening, then why worship God at all?

If a tornado misses the Brothel and hits the Church, then what are we to think of the supposed "Morality" of the Church?

God is a being who is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. In other words, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. But how mankind understands these concepts can bring him/her closer to God or lead him/her not to believe in God. One must understand the true meaning behind such teachings to truly appreciate God. The omnipotence of God does not mean that God can do absolutely anything that can be imagined. For example, God cannot be a being that has existed for all eternity and at the same time be a being who never existed until he was created out of nothing. God cannot be a perfectly good being and simultaneously be a perfectly evil being. God cannot have absolutely all power and absolutely no power simultaneously, etc, etc. There exists what I would term as "eternal impossibilities". There are things that not even God can do. There are things that are complete contradictions that are eternal in nature. Then how do we resolve that God is omnipotent or all powerful if he is subject to eternal impossibilities? God is omnipotent in that He can do all things that are possible in all eternity. We as humans cannot comprehend what is possible in all eternity. But God can and he has the power to fulfill his will as long as it is within the realm of the possible. In this way God is all powerful because he can do all that is possible to do. Is it possible for God to do evil? Yes, but God is also a being of free will and as such He would never choose to do evil. As a righteous God, he would never choose to do evil. Why does evil exist? Evil exists because there is opposition in all things. Simply by establishing what is good an right, the concept of evil comes into existence. The opposite of what God has declared to be good and right exists as a principle, even if it is not followed. It is simply the opposite of what has been declared to be good by God. It is only when beings who are weak and imperfect choose to do evil, that it becomes more than just a principle of opposition but a concrete opposition and rebellion against God. This may be due to ignorance or outright rebellion. Lucifer, a son of the morning, rebelled against God because he sought to take over God's position as God. He thought he could convince others to follow him and stop following the plan that God had in mind for us. This is the true reason why evil exists.

So the question arises as to why God did not create mankind and all other intelligent beings to be perfect like himself? If he did this, mankind would use their free will and perfect knowledge of good and evil that they are created with to simply choose the good over the evil based on having the same wisdom as God himself. The answer to this question reveals one of the biggest misunderstandings about the power of God on this earth! One of those eternal impossibilities that God cannot do, is that God cannot create something from nothing. Creation from nothing is an eternal impossibility. The word 'create' does not imply that things are created from nothing. When man was first created on this earth, the Bible tells us that God created man from the dust of the earth. The truth is that all things were created from materials that in some form have always existed. In fact, the basic components of all existence come from elements and intelligences that have always existed. We are taught in the bible that God is the father of our spirits and that before coming to this earth we existed in his presence as his spirit children. In fact, the bible tells us that we are the literal offspring of God, Our Eternal Father in heaven (Acts 17:28-29). One of his children who had great knowledge and was known as a son of the morning, sought to take the throne of God and rebelled against the Father. He managed to get many of his fellow brothers and sisters to follow after him, and they were eventually cast out of heaven into this earth and were not allowed to progress anymore along with God's other children who were allowed to come to this earth and receive a body (Rev. 12:7-11). Because the intelligences of mankind are self-existing eternal entities and became part of the children of God when they were born to God in the premortal earth life, they could not be created to be perfect. They already existed and were not created or made and neither indeed can be. Since the intelligences could not be created, as they were self-existent entities, they could not be created to be perfect. They are what they are. God, in his infinite wisdom devised a plan to allow mankind to become like he is through the process of learning and choosing to do that which is good. It was important for mankind to progress and the only way to progress to become like God was to have free will and choose of themselves to do good and forsake evil. God created this earth to be a school ground of sorts for mankind to experience good and evil so they could learn to choose the good over the evil. Without free will, a soul cannot progress to become one with God. You can't force a being to do good continually. The soul has to learn to be good in and of him or herself. Lucifer didn't quite understand this concept and came up with a plan to force mankind to be good and thought his plan was better than God's because he would not lose one soul. God rejected his plan because it would not work. Lucifer rebelled against God and sought to gain the support of all his brother and sister spirits. Eventually he was able to convince 1/3 of the hosts of heaven to side with him. For his great rebellion, he was cast out of heaven and lost the opportunity to progress to become like God along with all his followers.

God knew that mankind, in their weak and imperfect state would not be able to perfectly follow his commandments all the time. So, before he sent us all down to this earth to experience good and evil and all manner of pain and sorrows and joy and happiness, He had to establish a way whereby if man failed to keep the commandments, that if he would repent he could receive a second, third, fourth, fifth, ... etc. chance to try again. This was known as the plan of redemption. Since God is a just God, and also a merciful God, He needed to establish a way to allow those who break his law and are condemned under it, to have remorse of conscience and repent of their deeds and have second chances. To do this and still be a just God, He needed a being who could come to this earth and teach the true path of righteousness, not by word only, but also by example. He would need a being who lives a perfect life and never sins. The reason for this is so that he could have him go through the suffering of all mankind's sins as an innocent being who didn't deserve any of the pain and suffering he would undergo. He needed to create the greatest of injustices upon this being. This being was God's first born spirit and his only begotten son in the flesh. Jesus needed to be part God and part human. By being part God he was able to take upon himself all the sins of the world and survive it. By being part human, he was able to choose to allow the evil people of this world to commit gross evil upon him and he could voluntarily choose to give up the ghost, ie die. Because of the great injustice of a perfect holy being suffering for all the sins that all mankind would commit and going through all the pain and suffering so that he would know the depths of mankind's plight on this earth, a great injustice was brought about. Jesus never deserved any of the pain and suffering he went through. It was a great injustice. It became something that God our Eternal Heavenly Father would need recompense the Christ for. Not only for the injustice of it all, but to the extent of the injustice! Since he suffered the sins of all mankind, his recompense was to receive the pardoning power to forgive any man, woman, or child of their sins if they would only repent. Repentance was essential because God could not justly allow a being who continued in his sins to inherit the kingdom of God. The truly repentant are those whom God will grant his mercy upon to enter his kingdom. No unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of God.

As mankind progresses through this life, he is given opportunities to experience many happy and joyous moments. But he is also given the opportunity to experience pain, sorrow, and even death. He learns to appreciate immortality by experiencing all the pains of mortality. All of our experiences in this life will give us truth and wisdom as we depart this temporal sphere and enter into the immortal and eternal here after. It is an eternal principle that when spirit and element are connected mankind can receive a fullness of joy. Satan and his followers were denied bodies of flesh and bones. All the rest of God's children who come to this earth, receive a body of flesh and bones. It is essential that after we experience death, that eventually our spirits will be reunited with our bodies in the resurrection of the dead. Then we will be able to continue to receive that joy which one only gets from having the union of spirit and element. Christ himself has a resurrected body that he will retain forever and ever:

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

So when you understand that God could not create mankind to be perfect like himself since the intelligence of mankind is self existent and was not created or made, God established a temporary school ground for all of us to learn and grow and by using our free will and the doctrine of repentance, we could become worthy to receive his mercy through the atoning sacrifice of our beloved Savior. Yes life is hard and it certainly is no cake walk. But it is calculated to temper our souls and teach us not only to appreciate the good over the evil but to have faith and hope for a glorious resurrection when finally we will enjoy all the joy and happiness God has in store for us. We will look back on this temporal mortal earth life and an experience that gave us great wisdom and understanding. We all suffer and we all may look back at this life and fully appreciate our eternal existence. God in his infinite wisdom had given us a chance to experience tough love that will make us better beings in the eternal world to come. Those who truly understand the purpose of this life and love God are willing to sacrifice all that they have for him, even if it means great suffering or even death. In the end, we will enjoy the peace and love that will fill our souls with eternal delight. God's purpose is not to make this life a joy ride but to help us to learn to appreciate Him and all the blessings He will bestow upon us if we are true and faithful to becoming like him.

Matthew 4:17
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
 
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Yes, it is. And remember, those in purgatory eventually do reach heaven.

Uh. There is no Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, Limbo, Hades, Happy Hunting Ground, Valhalla or any other afterlife.

You die. you die. You're done. enjoy what you have, that's all there is.

Don't let some ASSHOLES deny you enjoyment because some sky fairy disapproves.

On the other hand, if the only thing that keeps you from being more of an asshole is a fear of magic sky pixies, please keep believing that. Most of you people are assholish enough.

Correct. You were done before you started, and you are still in that same place.

Nope, I really don't keep pissing up a rope when dealing with stupidity like, "God had a good reason for your mother to die."

That old dyke was lucky I didn't punch her out.
 
God is a being who is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. In other words, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. But how mankind understands these concepts can bring him/her closer to God or lead him/her not to believe in God. One must understand the true meaning behind such teachings to truly appreciate God.

Ah, what Howard Beale called "The God Bullshit".



 
Nope, I really don't keep pissing up a rope when dealing with stupidity like, "God had a good reason for your mother to die."

That old dyke was lucky I didn't punch her out.
Joey, you would have had a better argument if you had punched her out and then not apologized for doing so.

Unfortunately for you, your own actions prove you believe in a universal right and wrong. Every quarrel, every disagreement, every argument you have ever had proves you believe in a universal right and wrong. You literally expect others to not only understand your belief but to accept your belief as being true.

You are doing it right now.
 
If there were never a universal truth that existed man would never have an expectation of fairness to begin with because fairness would have no meaning. The fact that each of us has an expectation of fairness and that we expect everyone else to follow ought to raise our suspicion on the origin of that expectation.
 
I couldn't give two shits what was in Dahmner's heart. What was in his STOMACH was 17 guys he ate. He SHOULD have been punished for that in this life AND the next.
Hey, Joey, you are proving my point. What's wrong with Jeffrey doing that? It's almost like you believe in a universal right and wrong? :lol:

#winning
 
Joey, you would have had a better argument if you had punched her out and then not apologized for doing so.

Unfortunately for you, your own actions prove you believe in a universal right and wrong. Every quarrel, every disagreement, every argument you have ever had proves you believe in a universal right and wrong. You literally expect others to not only understand your belief but to accept your belief as being true.

You are doing it right now.

Sorry, you can actually believe that not punching out an obnoxious old dyke who says stupid things at your Mom's funeral is okay without needing a sky pixie.

There are no sky pixies.

So let's look at the non-sky pixie reasons not punching out that old dyke was a good idea

1) I could have been charged with assault.
2) Most of the other people at the funeral would have been upset. (They didn't like her either, but that would have been harsh).
3) On some level, I realized this was a stupid old woman who believed stupid things. Punching her wouldn't have made her less stupid.
 
Hey, Joey, you are proving my point. What's wrong with Jeffrey doing that? It's almost like you believe in a universal right and wrong? :lol:

#winning

Uh, the entire world believes murder is wrong. most of the world does not believe in your Sky pixie.

I do think that maybe we should count cannibalism as mitigation in murder cases because it's less wasteful.. but anyway.
 
Joey, you would have had a better argument if you had punched her out and then not apologized for doing so.

Unfortunately for you, your own actions prove you believe in a universal right and wrong. Every quarrel, every disagreement, every argument you have ever had proves you believe in a universal right and wrong. You literally expect others to not only understand your belief but to accept your belief as being true.

You are doing it right now.

Sorry, you can actually believe that not punching out an obnoxious old dyke who says stupid things at your Mom's funeral is okay without needing a sky pixie.

There are no sky pixies.

So let's look at the non-sky pixie reasons not punching out that old dyke was a good idea

1) I could have been charged with assault.
2) Most of the other people at the funeral would have been upset. (They didn't like her either, but that would have been harsh).
3) On some level, I realized this was a stupid old woman who believed stupid things. Punching her wouldn't have made her less stupid.
Joey, you are proving my point. You've already demonstrated that you believe in a universal right and wrong.

You can't take it back now.

#winning

:dance:
 
Hey, Joey, you are proving my point. What's wrong with Jeffrey doing that? It's almost like you believe in a universal right and wrong? :lol:

#winning

Uh, the entire world believes murder is wrong. most of the world does not believe in your Sky pixie.

I do think that maybe we should count cannibalism as mitigation in murder cases because it's less wasteful.. but anyway.
Still proving my point.

:dance:
 
Joey, you are proving my point. You've already demonstrated that you believe in a universal right and wrong.

You can't take it back now.

Hardly universal. If she said that to my brother, he would have punched her ass out.
 
Morals are effectively standards. For any given thing there exists a standard which is the highest possible standard. This standard exists independent of anything else. It is in effect a universal standard. It exists for a reason. When we deviate from this standard and normalize our deviance from the standard, eventually the reason the standard exists will be discovered. The reason this happens is because error cannot stand. Eventually error will fail and the truth will be discovered. Thus proving that morals cannot be anything we want them to be but are indeed based upon some universal code of common decency that is independent of man.
 
If the universe were created through natural process and we are an accidental happenstance of matter and energy doing what matter and energy do, then there should be no expectation for absolute morals. Morals can be anything we want them to be. The problem is that nature does have a preference for an outcome. Societies and people which behave with virtue experience order and harmony. Societies and people which behave without virtue experience disorder and chaos. So we can see from the outcomes that not all behaviors have equal outcomes. That some behaviors have better outcomes and some behaviors have worse outcomes. This is the moral law at work. If the universe was created by spirit for the express purpose of creating beings that know and create we would expect that we would receive feedback on how we behave. The problem is that violating moral laws are not like violating physical laws. When we violate a physical law the consequences are immediate. If you try to defy gravity by jumping off a roof you will fall. Whereas the consequences for violating a moral law are more probabilistic in nature; many times we get away with it.
 
Then your brother has an argument. You don't.

Sure I do. God didn't stop me from punching that Old Dyke out. I did.
No, you didn't. If you had you would have said that in the first place.

But let's say you did punch her out, OK? The fact that you lied about it the first time is proof that you knew it was wrong. Thus proving you believe in a universal right and wrong. #stillwinning

You do realize I am having my way with you, right?
 

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