Am I losing my faith or just becoming more realistic?

[The Original Tree]

It appears by your other thread you have found your answer. I would invite you to look at my thread:

Who Is Worthy To Open The Scroll?

What I have to say is this. God’s Will is in all things, and God is Infinite. God does not always answer prayers in the immediate, sometimes He does not answer prayers until Eternity.

But also know that you are in the middle of a War between Heaven and Earth and that Satan is The God of this world until Yeshua opens The Scroll.

God is not limited by this and God can lay siege with His Angels in to enemy territory at any time.

When we ask for things from God we can only see in The Finite. We don’t know His will. He maybe trying to teach us patience or test our faith or use our struggles to glorify Himself in other way which will somehow spread The Gospel or accomplish some other purpose.

We are asked to have faith and faith implies trusting God even when some things don’t make sense.

But no matter what we suffer know this, when His Kingdom Comes No One Can say their prayers weren’t answered, as each and every believer will be in a glorified body and sin and death, and all manner of Evil will No Longer Be.

There will be no more tears.

 

[Meriweather]

Do Shintos or Hindus deserve to go to hell FOR ALL ETERNITY because they had the bad luck of not being born where the Christian God is in charge?

For Shintos and Hindus who happen to come across this or any other such feeble question. The Catholic Catechism states:

1. We do not know who--if anyone--is in hell (or separated from God).
2. Such separation from God is a choice each individual makes, not a choice God makes for us.
3. Catholics follow the teachings of Jesus Christ who asked us to spread the good news--Repentance of (turning away from) sin for the forgiveness of sins.
4. Catholics understand that humans cannot reach everyone on earth; simply because Christ's faith does not reach you, or simply because mere humans cannot adequately convince one of God, there is no reason to fear. What is not possible for a human is still possible for God--and God is loving and merciful to all.
5. The only people to whom instructions about hell are addressed to are those practicing the Christian faith. Those who follow the Christian faith should realize they are in danger of separation from God if they should act in an evil and hateful manner towards anyone else. They should realize they are in danger of eternal separation from God if they turn from Him, if they treat Him contemptuously, or if they say they want no part of Him.

In short, God loves all His creation and hopes/expects us to express love in our own lives to others. My daughter's good friend and college roommate is a lovely person of the Hindu faith. I expect that friendship will happily continue throughout eternity.

Joe, I pray for you every so often because I think your mom would like me to do that.

 

[sparky]

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

yet another 'free will' debate then?

yes you pray & pray, but do not get the celestial responses you wish

sucks, don't it?

in my experience as an ex emt i both begged and cursed God for folks i could not save in the back of the meatwagon

often only to meet family outside of the trauma room expressing condolences as 'God's will'

this is the price of free will

yet we keep knockin'..

a tune i've played in every d*mn jam or band i've been in for the last 40 yrs hammers it home



~S~

 

[ChemEngineer]

"My thoughts are not your thoughts and your ways are not my ways."

What does our pet dog understand of our actions? We pick up his poop and the dog has to wonder, "What the hell are these people doing? And this bath stuff - who needs it! Why did they cut my balls off?"

 

[JoeB131]

For Shintos and Hindus who happen to come across this or any other such feeble question. The Catholic Catechism states:

1. We do not know who--if anyone--is in hell (or separated from God).
2. Such separation from God is a choice each individual makes, not a choice God makes for us.
3. Catholics follow the teachings of Jesus Christ who asked us to spread the good news--Repentance of (turning away from) sin for the forgiveness of sins.
4. Catholics understand that humans cannot reach everyone on earth; simply because Christ's faith does not reach you, or simply because mere humans cannot adequately convince one of God, there is no reason to fear. What is not possible for a human is still possible for God--and God is loving and merciful to all.
5. The only people to whom instructions about hell are addressed to are those practicing the Christian faith. Those who follow the Christian faith should realize they are in danger of separation from God if they should act in an evil and hateful manner towards anyone else. They should realize they are in danger of eternal separation from God if they turn from Him, if they treat Him contemptuously, or if they say they want no part of Him.

Wow, that's still kind of fucked up.

You did more dodging and weaving than the pedophile in a collar I asked the same question to in sixth grade. (Yes, our Catholic priest in my parish was eventually convicted of being a pedophile... no big surprise there.)

So what you are saying is that some poor Shinto is going to go to Hell because she never talked to anyone who could make a convincing case for Jesus?

We aren't even getting into the Christians who think other Christians are going to hell because they don't think Jesus is made of wafers...

It would seem that if God were truly omnipotent, then all of humanity would know the right way from the beginning, and not just the ones who believe in a bastardized version of Judaism influenced by Zoroastrianism and Greek Philosophy which happened to spread because one crazy Emperor wanted a state religion. .

 

[Care4all]

Wow, you sure cast a wide net.

How wide a net has Richard Dawkins cast, publishing The God Delusion, a vile, hateful attack on all people of faith, which sold millions of copies?
How wide was that net?

I 've known Athiests (sic) that just go about their lives, being good honest, loving, and generous people... you'd never know they didn't believe in God, because their walk was with what I was taught was holy, or with the God in good.

Good for you. Those were not the people I described, were they?
There are hypocrites of faith, aren't there? Jesus selected Judas as His disciple and Judas betrayed him, so what?

Your disdain in your post is the opposite of our command, to bring people to Christ or God, not disparage and condemn a whole broad group.... imho.

Learn what righteous indignation is, as well as expressing the truth.
Jesus overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the temple.
Jesus said "Let him who hath no sword sell his garment and buy one."
Here is your clue: Swords are not used for plowing.

God blinded the homosexuals in Sodom who sought to rape His angels. Was God bringing people to Himself in so doing? Please explain away.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Men of faith prayed to defeat Nazis and Japanese, both convinced that they were the superior race. Tell the world of how effective your gentility is in overcoming evil.

We've never followed Christ, that's the world's problem, in a nutshell... And results in wars, at times...

We are not good Samaritans, we do not walk an unforced mile with our adversaries, we do not turn the other cheek, we do not love our neighbor as thyself, we do not feed and clothe the poor, help the sick, visit those imprisoned, we do not treat others as though they are Christ himself.... or all, children of God.

 

[Meriweather]

So what you are saying is that some poor Shinto is going to go to Hell because she never talked to anyone who could make a convincing case for Jesus?

What is wrong with your reading comprehension? I said no such thing--quite the opposite.

You are the one hypothesizing non-Christians go to hell. Please stop. Atheists may believe Christians believe, etc., but I am here to say Catholic Christians hold no such belief. (I cannot speak for all Protestant denominations as I do not know their catechisms.)

 

[Meriweather]

We aren't even getting into the Christians who think other Christians are going to hell because they don't think Jesus is made of wafers...

Once again, Catholics hold no such belief. Why are you trying to spread lies? Who is your father?

 

[JoeB131]

What is wrong with your reading comprehension? I said no such thing--quite the opposite.

You are the one hypothesizing non-Christians go to hell. Please stop. Atheists may believe Christians believe, etc., but I am here to say Catholic Christians hold no such belief. (I cannot speak for all Protestant denominations as I do not know their catechisms.)

No, that's the dogma of your faith, only Catholics get into heaven. I mean, when I was growing up we still had Limbo for the non-Christians, Pious -pre-Jesus Jews and unbaptized babies. But the Catholic Church dropped Limbo from the teachings.

What Does the Bible Say About Jesus Being The Only Way?

 

[Meriweather]

It would seem that if God were truly omnipotent

There is a reason we are told not to create our own God, or the God we think should be. Clearly, you have no understanding of omnipotence, either.

Whatever religion you believe you are not following...it does not exist. Think about that. You created a religion in your own mind and have rejected your own creation--as well you should.

 

[Meriweather]

No, that's the dogma of your faith, only Catholics get into heaven. I mean, when I was growing up we still had Limbo for the non-Christians, Pious -pre-Jesus Jews and unbaptized babies. But the Catholic Church dropped Limbo from the teachings.

Please point out chapter and verse in the Catholic Catechism. (I'm betting you refuse. I have studied the Catholic Catechism at length and no such dogma exists. Even so, if you were willing, perhaps your own study of the Catholic Catechism would broaden horizons on Catholicism and bring a great light into the darkness.)

By the way, are you aware why the Church 'dropped' Limbo? People (perhaps such as yourself?) started imagining Limbo to be a place, not a condition of the Church itself. The Church said it was in Limbo (did not know, had no Biblical teaching or Apostolic Tradition) regarding unbaptized babies (not other Christians).

 

[JoeB131]

Once again, Catholics hold no such belief. Why are you trying to spread lies? Who is your father?

My Dad was a German Immigrant who insisted we stay Catholic, although he rarely went to Church himself. (Then again, given the shit he went through in WWII, I wouldn't be sitting with the happy horseshit, either.)

I went to Catholic Schools for 12 years, that's EXACTLY what they taught.

Now, what they say at the interfaith pancake breakfast where they all pretend to like each other, that's a different story.

Transubstantiation- It's a real thing in Catholic teaching.

Transubstantiation - Wikipedia

It's the belief that the Priest performs some voodoo magic and the bread and wine magically turns into Jay-a-zus.

Yes, it sounds fucking crazy when you explain it, because it totally is. But Catholics and Protestants went around killing each other for hundreds of years over this bullshit.

It always tasted like stale ass bread and weak watered down wine to me.

Not to worry though, thanks to the Corona virus, you don't have to do communion anymore!

COVID19 > Jesus, apparently.

 

[JoeB131]

Please point out chapter and verse in the Catholic Catechism. (I'm betting you refuse. I have studied the Catholic Catechism at length and no such dogma exists. Even so, if you were willing, perhaps your own study of the Catholic Catechism would broaden horizons on Catholicism and bring a great light into the darkness.)

By the way, are you aware why the Church 'dropped' Limbo? People (perhaps such as yourself?) started imagining Limbo to be a place, not a condition of the Church itself. The Church said it was in Limbo (did not know, had no Biblical teaching or Apostolic Tradition) regarding unbaptized babies (not other Christians).

Actually, the nuns described Limbo just like they described Heaven and Hell. As places where souls were trapped for all eternity. There was also purgatory, but you don't hear much about that one. Just that you had to keep praying really hard to get your relatives out of Purgatory and keep giving the church money.

Limbo - Wikipedia

The Limbo of Infants (Latin limbus infantium or limbus puerorum) is the hypothetical permanent status of the unbaptized who die in infancy, too young to have committed actual sins, but not having been freed from original sin. Recent Catholic theological speculation tends to stress the hope, although not the certainty, that these infants may attain heaven instead of the state of Limbo.[10]

While the Catholic Church has a defined doctrine on original sin, it has none on the eternal fate of unbaptized infants, leaving theologians free to propose different theories, which magisterium is free to accept or reject. Limbo is one such theory.[11][12]

Translation- it was a scam to terrorize people into getting their babies dipped and giving the Church more money.

 

[anynameyouwish]

Place your faith in God at the top....no matter how bad things get remember God will see you through...keep the faith....

I think what you're saying is that we should cling to faith in God no matter how bad things get for us in this life.

If that is so, why did Christ teach that we should ask God for things, and that persistence in prayer will have results?

Praying shows that you have faith in God....in Gods plan....you don't pray that you win the lotto....you pray for the healing of others....sometimes when you pray things go badly anyway...but when something bad happens 99% of the time down the road people see why it happened and the good that came out of the tragic event....
My grandfather had a massive heart attack...he lived and made it another 12 years...in that 12 years he learned how to live...how to forgive...and how to love...he said his heart attack changed his life for the better....

I don't think any of the bad things that have happened to me have made me a better person.

"I don't think any of the bad things that have happened to me have made me a better person."


having read so many of your posts supporting trump i can assure you that you are NOT a better person.....

well....you might be a little better than trump....

or not....

 

[JoeB131]

There is a reason we are told not to create our own God, or the God we think should be. Clearly, you have no understanding of omnipotence, either.

Whatever religion you believe you are not following...it does not exist. Think about that. You created a religion in your own mind and have rejected your own creation--as well you should.

The thing is, ALL GODS are imaginary. You don't believe in Amaterasu or Krishna or Allah or Odin or Zeus.

I just believe in one less than you do.

 

[Meriweather]

Translation- it was a scam to terrorize people into getting their babies dipped and giving the Church more money.

Again, a religion of your own creation. The trouble with language is that it changes, is metamorphic. Because of this, often later generations misunderstand the original thoughts. It takes another generation or two to change to current definitions and re-word that which is being misunderstood. I am guessing you are caught, perhaps even trapped, in the 1950s as far your understanding of the Catholic faith?

The Catholic Church teaches "Let the children come to me." Babies are welcomed into the Church (the Body of Christ) from the beginning. No need to be a certain age. Makes sense, considering the Church's Jewish roots. Offspring of those of the Jewish faith are Jews from the moment of their birth.

 

[Meriweather]

The thing is, ALL GODS are imaginary. You don't believe in Amaterasu or Krishna or Allah or Odin or Zeus.

I just believe in one less than you do.

Says someone who has no experience of God. Delve deep into primary stories of the Greek gods. They have a different history than that of God (perhaps called by many names) whose history is Spirit. Those of the Buddha faith understand spirit--many without holding a belief in God.

People who recognize human make-up is body, mind, and spirit will understand the reality of God, and many have experienced it. Those who do not recognize, or do not believe, human make-up also consists of spirit are stuck with mind-base in when comes to God. That is why you and I talk past each other in all our discussions. I am trying to offer you a glimpse into the spirit perspective. Both perspectives are possible...

 

[JoeB131]

Again, a religion of your own creation. The trouble with language is that it changes, is metamorphic. Because of this, often later generations misunderstand the original thoughts. It takes another generation or two to change to current definitions and re-word that which is being misunderstood. I am guessing you are caught, perhaps even trapped, in the 1950s as far your understanding of the Catholic faith?

I actually ran away from the Church of Pedophiles as fast as I could in the 1980's... but I realized it was a lot of bullshit in the 1970's.

My favorite was when some old Frustrated Dyke in a Habit told us about how God Flooded the world. When little Joey, innocent as he was asked, "Why did God drown the babies?" "BECAUSE THEY WERE WICKED BABIES>>> WIIIIIIICKED!"

By High School, they were hedging their bets and admitting the Flood was probably a local thing and a bit of a myth, but still trying to claim it was absolutely a true story.

People who recognize human make-up is body, mind, and spirit will understand the reality of God, and many have experienced it. Those who do not recognize, or do not believe, human make-up also consists of spirit are stuck with mind-base in when comes to God. That is why you and I talk past each other in all our discussions. I am trying to offer you a glimpse into the spirit perspective. Both perspectives are possible...

Well, no. I'm an evidence based guy. Where is there any evidence that there is a spirit or a soul?

Mind you, I understand why you'd WANT to believe that there is one. We all want to believe we are going to continue after death and get to meet up with lost loved ones. It's a very comforting thought. Religions have made a shitload of money selling this bag of air for centuries. (And killing anyone who questioned it until fairly recently.)

Either the universe works this way or it doesn't.

 

[JoeB131]

Says someone who has no experience of God. Delve deep into primary stories of the Greek gods. They have a different history than that of God (perhaps called by many names) whose history is Spirit. Those of the Buddha faith understand spirit--many without holding a belief in God.

I had all the experience of "God" I wanted growing up, and couldn't run away from it fast enough. The breaking point was when some Frustrated Dyke in a Habit had the fucking nerve to say at my mom's funeral, "God had to have a good reason".

The Catholic Church teaches "Let the children come to me." Babies are welcomed into the Church (the Body of Christ) from the beginning. No need to be a certain age. Makes sense, considering the Church's Jewish roots. Offspring of those of the Jewish faith are Jews from the moment of their birth.

Again, not what the Church teaches.... That's why Baptism was so important.

 

[Meriweather]

My favorite was when some old Frustrated Dyke in a Habit told us about how God Flooded the world. When little Joey, innocent as he was asked, "Why did God drown the babies?" "BECAUSE THEY WERE WICKED BABIES>>> WIIIIIIICKED!"

I am sorry for two things. First that you had such an ignorant teacher. (It appears around the same time your teacher was spouting this, I had a very different nun saying very different things. She was a lovely person.) Second, that (apparently) you have never done any research into the themes of the Biblical account of the flood. Since it was an Old Testament story, both modern and centuries old rabbinical commentary is quite interesting.

Look, I can sympathize with running into a bad teacher, who is also a nun. I had one who still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on end--not because of how she taught religion but because of how she treated her students. At least in the classroom, she was not a sterling example of humanity, let alone Christianity. Even so, I can still pinpoint a couple of moments where she appeared to have regrets for how she acted.