Am I losing my faith or just becoming more realistic?

[Gdjjr]

What I care about is where I live and what I live. My family, my church, the schools where I work, my friends and community. There is nothing I can do about the people off in DC or the Vatican. They do not know me, I do not know them. I can only do what I do within the small existence of my life. Try to make a difference in the lives of people I actually touch and with whom I interact. Better than sitting home and fretting about DC, right?

With the current President at the helm, I'm a little less worried about tyranny. And...I live liberty. Every single moment, right where I am.

me too- I tell my kids to enjoy their life and beat the idiots in DC at their own game- so far so good- and I do my best to leave my space a little better than I found it- I determine "better", not some pie in the sky fantasy or DC or society- however, I would be remiss in my objective if I didn't pass on what little knowledge I've gained in 72 years- that knowledge includes, but is not limited to, there is no God- religion is a means of controlling others through guilt or hell fire and damnation or they can choose the pie in the sky where the streets are paved with gold, snakes talk and 2 men (Cain and Abel) populated the entire world but will condemn homosexuality- all the while ignoring the world is older than 6000 years and so is man therefore disavowing the entire Western Hemisphere even existed when 2 of every species was put on a boat but forgetting to tell the westerners that a baby was born without physical copulation to save them- and save the they did- onto reservations, enslaving them, making them dependent of christians who chose to believe the only good Indian is a dead Indian and that killing the savages in a savage manner was Manifest Destiny-

Oh, BTW, Trump will do precisely what he is allowed to do by TPTB to maintain the artificial balance which finances what you don't like which Trump subscribes to while you ignore your neighbors plight brought on by that very subscription.

 

[Meriweather]

Yet, we're asked to believe that a snake talked and two men populated the entire world, the sea parted, a boat held 2 of every species, etc., based on translation (shape shifting) that you yourself say we don't understand- how can that be?

First, you are not asked to believe that the stories are literal. What these accounts are trying to convey is man's relationship to God. I suspect the difference between us is that you pick at whether there are talking serpents, or whether two of all species can fit on a boat. Meanwhile, I know serpents don't talk and we can't load two of every species on a single boat. Therefore, I focus on a relationship with God.

 

[Meriweather]

A couple of problems with that. When you say, "the Flood", do you mean the world wide flood that was described in the bible specifically as an attempt to exterminate the entire human race? Because that is what is described in Genesis 6-9.

Read the Hebrew. In Hebrew it is obvious that earth is covered with water (there is another word that designates planet).

 

[Gdjjr]

I suspect the difference between us is that you pick at whether there are talking serpents, or whether two of all species can fit on a boat. Meanwhile,

No, I don't believe man's writing are a God's word- and I don't believe there is a God, or god.
I question the veracity of claims after looking at the evidence.

 

[Meriweather]

Actually, you are reading too much into it. Men were evil, so God destroyed them except for his favorite floating zookeeper. So God pretty much drowned every baby in the world, not to mention all the kittens and puppies, and it didn't even accomplish what he set out to accomplish. People went RIGHT BACK to sinning and otherwise offending him.

Keep in mind, there are people out there who think that Genesis 6 is TOTAL HISTORY, and they want it taught in the schools! They put up amusement parks to it and shit.

I study the Bible. I study science. I study language, history, and culture. It appears you never moved beyond the Bible? Science teaches us floods are natural disasters, not an act of God. History and culture teach us the scientific knowledge available in Biblical times. Knowledge of both God and science has evolved greatly since then. Today we neither throw out science nor belief in God simply because our ancestors had not the knowledge then that we have today.

 

[Meriweather]

If you don't do what Jesus says, or you just have the bad luck of not being born a Christian, you will burn in hell forever and ever.
If you don't get your baby dipped, it goes to Limbo
If you are a kind of okay person, but not totally perfect, you end up in Purgatory, which is like Hell-lite, I suppose.

Again, JoeB131 dogma, not Christian dogma. We both agree that JoeB131 dogma should be rejected.

 

[Meriweather]

Uh, no. This is what Christians teach. They kind of have to. Because once you go down for the "eating meat on a Friday for lent", you are going to the same hell as the guy who murders 17 people and eats them.

Unless you beg God for forgiveness. Then you totally get into heaven no matter what you ate.... or who.

But man, if you don't, you go right down to Hell to burn forever.

Joe, this is incorrect. Another example of JoeB131 doctrine that all reject.

 

[Meriweather]

Um. Okay. Our statue of the "Virgin" Mary (no, really) had a bunch of little votive candles in front of it, and if you put some money in the little box you could lite a candle for your dead relative

Are you against people placing flowers at grave sites as well? We should display no token of memory and love for our family and friends who have passed on?

 

[Meriweather]

me too- I tell my kids to enjoy their life and beat the idiots in DC at their own game- so far so good- and I do my best to leave my space a little better than I found it- I determine "better", not some pie in the sky fantasy or DC or society- however, I would be remiss in my objective if I didn't pass on what little knowledge I've gained in 72 years- that knowledge includes, but is not limited to, there is no God- religion is a means of controlling others through guilt or hell fire and damnation or they can choose the pie in the sky where the streets are paved with gold, snakes talk and 2 men (Cain and Abel) populated the entire world but will condemn homosexuality- all the while ignoring the world is older than 6000 years and so is man therefore disavowing the entire Western Hemisphere even existed when 2 of every species was put on a boat but forgetting to tell the westerners that a baby was born without physical copulation to save them- and save the they did- onto reservations, enslaving them, making them dependent of christians who chose to believe the only good Indian is a dead Indian and that killing the savages in a savage manner was Manifest Destiny-

Well, if this is the example of your "knowledge" of God and religion, thank you for not passing it on.

 

[Meriweather]

Oh, BTW, Trump will do precisely what he is allowed to do by TPTB to maintain the artificial balance which finances what you don't like which Trump subscribes to while you ignore your neighbors plight brought on by that very subscription.

Don't be silly. The one thing I do know is that people take care of people in need (which differs from people who want a government to take care of them). I also know President Trump and the Republican party are not ever going to ignore those in need, while at the same time promoting freedom of living and making a living to the greater population. The Democrat party (of which I used to belong) have developed a bad habit of allowing people to become dependent, of telling people what to think, and more, what to say. They have become like that shrew fishwife who whips that docile husband into doing more and more. Because, after all, the shrew fishwife knows what is best for everyone.

Over the years (since Pelosi) I have become less and less of someone who votes across party lines. It is my fond hope that people will shake the Democrat party to its core so that it might regroup and return to its roots, the party it once was. I'm doing my part by letting the Democrats know I will not vote for them until this happens.

 

[Meriweather]

No, I don't believe man's writing are a God's word- and I don't believe there is a God, or god.
I question the veracity of claims after looking at the evidence.

Study the underlying theme, what the story is truly about. That is where you will find God's word and inspiration. The stories were indeed written by man.

If you don't believe there is a God, you don't believe. I have no choice. I know. And there is no greater truth in the Bible than Jesus' words of, "Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe." Knowing can be a great burden. If you ever find yourself thinking, Maybe God does exist, thank Him for the not knowing.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

I'm quite late to the party, but FWIW:

I recall a movie that Kirk Cameron played in. The name, the plot, everything are a blur to me at the moment. Anyway, some guy is complaining to Kirk that he prayed and prayed, but didn't get an answer to which Kirk answered him and said something to the effect that God heard him. He was telling him no.

God's will is His will. Prayer may or may not yield the results you want, but in due time the reason will be revealed. Additionally, if we are in rebellion to the laws of God, be it knowingly or through ignorance, a prayer may be ineffective when we want something for ourselves.

God hears you. He answers and sometimes demands more from you in return.

 

[JoeB131]

First, you are not asked to believe that the stories are literal. What these accounts are trying to convey is man's relationship to God. I suspect the difference between us is that you pick at whether there are talking serpents, or whether two of all species can fit on a boat. Meanwhile, I know serpents don't talk and we can't load two of every species on a single boat. Therefore, I focus on a relationship with God.

Most of human history, I'd have been been burned at the stake for not believing the literal unerreacny of the bible.

The problem is you are trying to have it both ways. You are "Disneyfying" the Bible. Ignore the nasty or unpleasant parts of it, read stuff into it that aren't there, and try to have a happy ending.

It's annoying enough when Disney does this shit with a dark story like The Little Mermaid or the Hunchback of Notre Dame. (In the original versions. THEY DIE!!!!!)

But you bible types want to take a story like Noah and make it something like THIS.

and not make it something kind of horrifying like THIS.

 

[Meriweather]

The problem is you are trying to have it both ways. You are "Disneyfying" the Bible. Ignore the nasty or unpleasant parts of it, read stuff into it that aren't there, and try to have a happy ending.

Actually, what I am doing is following the spiritual aspects of the Bible without getting caught up in accounts of ancient history whether they be presented in the Disney version or the Monster version. Mankind (think Aesop) has always concocted stories to illustrate truths.

Let's take Aesop. If I get caught up on whether it is possible for animals to even know what a race is, let alone participate in one--and an inter species race at that--the point of the story flies off over my head. The same is true of Bible stories. To me it seems odd that you allow yourself to be entangled with the 'chaff' or as Jesus once put it, to strain out the gnat and swallow the camel.

 

[LuckyDuck]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

I know you don't want to hear from Atheists, however, allow me to toss in a non-religious thought.
You do whatever "makes you feel better," whether something positive comes your way or not. If praying makes you "feel better," even though you don't feel that your prayers aren't being answered, then continue doing so, just don't expect all that you pray for to come out the way you wish.
Studies have shown that prayers haven't shown to significantly change outcomes and in short, work no better than chance, but if it makes you feel better to do so, then just continue praying.
Personally, I've pretty much been an a**hole much of my life and never pray, as to me, there really isn't any invisible thingy to pray to, but things have worked out fairly well for me. That's life. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. To me, it's just a matter of luck in some cases.

 

[Invisibleflash]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

Seems to me you think you know best and wanna be the God. The God must meets your demands or you are pissed.

 

[rylah]

According to the Jesuit author of the book, bad things that happen to us are not a test. Bad things happen, and there is no reason for them.

I read another book about the volcanic explosion that destroyed Pompei. The author makes the point that the people of Pompei did not die because they deserved it, or failed to make some sacrifice to the gods, they died because volcanos explode and what we do in this life has no effect on that.

Well... that priest is an atheist.

 

[rylah]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

Pray to Father only,
not any agent claimed to stand in between.

Here's another question - how do You know that what You pray for is for Your good?

 

[Gdjjr]

Well, if this is the example of your "knowledge" of God and religion, thank you for not passing it on.

I said I have knowledge, but not limited to- why is it you refuse to address what I've said and choose to address all around it?
But, for your edification, I have passed on that particular part of my knowledge

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, what I am doing is following the spiritual aspects of the Bible without getting caught up in accounts of ancient history whether they be presented in the Disney version or the Monster version. Mankind (think Aesop) has always concocted stories to illustrate truths.

Let's take Aesop. If I get caught up on whether it is possible for animals to even know what a race is, let alone participate in one--and an inter species race at that--the point of the story flies off over my head. The same is true of Bible stories. To me it seems odd that you allow yourself to be entangled with the 'chaff' or as Jesus once put it, to strain out the gnat and swallow the camel.

There's a big difference. No one was ever burned at the stake for doubting Aesop's fables. No one is threatening anyone with hellfire for all eternity because they doubted a Hare and a Turtle could agree to have a race.

The problem is, of course, is that a lot of the really horrible stories in the Bible, the Churches kept hidden from us. For instance, I never heard of Jephthah the Gileadite until I started hanging in Atheist circles. (He's the "mighty man of God" who made a foolish vow and then butchered his only daughter as a burnt offering to Yahweh.)

A worse example would be how religious education handles the Story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Yes, it's been used as the Biblical excuse for homophobia for centuries, but they always leave out the part where Lot gets drunk and bangs both of his daughters after he had offered them up for gang rape by the mob. You do get the cute part where poor Mrs. Lot (probably the only decent character in the story) looks back and gets turned into a pillar of salt.)

Now, yeah, these are myths, to explain why certain cities were abandoned, or why a certain area has a shitload of salt in it. But how these myths have been used to propagate bad behavior for centuries is telling.