Am I losing my faith or just becoming more realistic?

[zaangalewa]

Where from comes your totally stupid hate against Christians? Why do you think it is important for all people not to believe in god?

I think the best thing that could happen is the abolition of religion.

I often wonder myselve why people have not only a lack of knowledge and education but also absolutelly strange and idiotic (¿anti-american?) opinions and seem to think the same time they are clever or wise and educated people.

Inform yourselve for example about the first "temple" of mankind in Göbekli Tepe. Hunters and gatherers - no joke! - made this sanctuary. A result of this is everything what you see all around you and what people today normally call "civilization" and/or "culture". When your dream of a world without religions will come true (atheism is by the way also "only" a religious belief) then this will cause two possible results as far as I am able to see: Either the death of all mankind and/or the "(r)evolution" to be superhuman beings as for example was Adolf Hitler, what's in the end the absolute same result.

Example: What you call "butt sex" is for example no sex at all. A butt is part of the digestive organs of human beings. So called "butt sex" is a main reason for a faster wide spread of dangerous viruses.

Okay.. you do realize that 37% of straights do anal sex, and 99% of straight people do oral sex, right?

What do you call oral sex? A result of your calculation here would be less than 0.5% of all women are straight lesbian. In case of anal-sex is by the way a "gay" question: "Why uses a homosexual man the butt of another homosexual man as a substitute for the vagina of a woman?" (And it's by the way also wrong to think every homosexual man is doing so.)

So the mouth is also part of the digestive system...

It is. And how save do you think is oral sex with changing sexual partners in case of infections, specially if mini- or micro-wounds are envolved?

and in the case of you, the butthole and the mouth are interchangeable components.

Okay - you show with this comparison that you hate everyone, who not shares your opinions in case of sex. Nevertheless all people have the right to be free from infections. What do you do for example with someone who infects you intentionally with a deadly disease via this what you call "sex"?

 

[Chuz Life]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

Blackrook , I don't have a clue about how this will end, for either of us. . . but I feel inclined to share my thoughts on your post because of some of my comments to you in the past.

I have commented to you (recently) about how I think religion should be kept out of arguments and discussions about abortion, for example.

While I still hold that view, I want to make it clear that I don't ever want to play a part in turning ANYONE away from their religious views.

I was born and raised in a very religious (mainly Baptist) family.

I don't regret that part of my life at all.

If religion were NOT a part of my family and my family members lives, I can not imagine anything good coming as a result of that. I love and miss them, as they were, every single day.

I do not practice any religion myself.

I often get down and mad enough to SCREAM at "God" and say and do things that would no doubt disappoint or extremely worry my family members.

I don't like being a disappointment to them. However, as an adult, I refuse to hide my own feelings about religion, too.

I see religion as a valuable and (to many) a necessary thing. I'm simply too "logical" to fully embrace it again, as I once did as a child.

You seem to be a very logical person too.

In my experience, even hypocrites are welcome in church. The music, food and fellowship is good for the heart, for the soul (if there is such a thing) and for society as a whole.

The way I balance things now is by using my (admittedly religious) upbringing to recognize and identify things that are right and wrong (involuntary gut check.) Then, I remove myself from the situation, emotionally and examine the same from an objective / secular point of view.

More often than not, the conclusions I make arrive at the same points, like a parallel, intersection or merge.

I hope that makes some sense to you.

I'm ok with it, if it doesn't.

 

[zaangalewa]

... There's a big difference. No one was ever burned at the stake for doubting Aesop's fables. No one is threatening anyone with hellfire for all eternity because they doubted a Hare and a Turtle could agree to have a race. ...

You don't have a big idea about the hellenistic culture. Socrates for example was executed because of his "atheism" (Later the Christians will be called "atheists" while stepping in the shoes of "atheistic" philosopers like Aristotle.) It was not nice to be a member of the ancient Greek culture. The most Greeks were convinced it would had been better never to have to be born. The Christian religion was for the ancient Greeks like a warm soft summer rain in a desperated desert.

Far later in the middle ages (the middle ages are not a dark age) the old Greek philosoper Aristotle and his interpreter Averroes (who was a Muslim and most popular in the Catholic world) were used as a basic for the education in universities. Practically all modern universities and all modern sciences came from this evolvement.

The problem is, of course, is that a lot of the really horrible stories in the Bible, the Churches kept hidden from us. For instance, I never heard of Jephthah the Gileadite until I started hanging in Atheist circles. (He's the "mighty man of God" who made a foolish vow and then butchered his only daughter as a burnt offering to Yahweh.)

Very short: Jephthah was wrong to do so. This time was long over. What he did (if he did it) was not compatible with Israel and is not compatible with the very famous word of god ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice’.

And I warn you in case of your "Atheist circle". Don't try to tell Christians what our belief is - you don't have any idea about it. If you like to understand the religion of the book, which created the love for books and knowledge in west and east, then try for example to understand why Saint Francis thought about to give away the only bible they had (an immense financial asset in his time of history) to a begging woman, instead not to do the good things, which are written in the bible. In the end he not gave the bible, because his monks did not like to do so. He was their leader. So how would he had been able to do something against their will?

 

[The Original Tree]

To those who thing Religion, or Faith should be kept out of Abortion, Let me Remind you to what God says to The Wicked Inhabitants of The Earth when He releases Judgment during The Tribulation.

60 Million Babies Murdered in The US alone?


Psalm 106:40

37 They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons. 38 They shed innocent blood— the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was polluted with blood. 39 They defiled themselves by their actions and prostituted themselves by their deeds 40 So the anger of the LORD was kindled against His people, and He abhorred His own inheritance.

Revelation 16:4-7

4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

Take a look at all of The Judgments that involve Blood and Death during 'The Time of Jacob's Trouble."

Who Is Worthy To Open The Scroll?

 

[rylah]

For shallow minds,
shallow conclusions.

Jephtah's daughter wasn't physically sacrificed, rather turned ascetic.

Um, no, the original Hebrew was "olah", which means "Burnt offering". For most of history, this wasn't in dispute. The thinking of Rabbinic and early Christian Scholars was that Jephthah sacrificed his daughter, and that it was an example of the lawlessness and depravity of Israel in the time of the Judges. The Disneyfied version of her dedicating her life to being a nun or some such shit (which really isn't much better, why should she give up family and love because her Dad promised something stupid to God?) is something the Fundies came up with when people started questioning Yahweh's role in the story.

Virgin...the other white Meat!

Lot wasn't awake when his daughters bore his seed, and there was a righteous intention behind their action - they thought the entire world was devastated, that they're the last remaining women on earth, and their father the only man left. The world was created for there to be life and the first commandment ever given to humanity is to multiply and fill the earth, and for all they knew, there was no other way to fulfill that.

Okay, here are some problems with that argument. First, the story indicated that they had lived in the city of Zoar for quite some time. Then they moved out of Zoar after the destruction of Sodom

30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

They lived in Zoar long enough to acquire enough wine to get poor old Lot drunk out of his mind, twice. (We could also argue the improbability of an elderly man getting an erection when drunk out of his mind, or knocking up two girls after only have sex with each once, but never mind.) But they already knew they weren't the last people on Earth, they had just been in Zoar and there were plenty of people there.

Why is it the God Haters use these examples as if they are teachings from God.

Much of the Bible is simply HISTORY -- UNEDITED, GOOD WITH THE BAD -- HISTORY.

Because God RECORDED human behaviour for all time DOES NOT mean God approves of a behaviour.

Okay, let's look at that. Did God approve of Lot's behavior? Mind you, God dispatched TWO ANGELS to warn Lot of Sodom's impending destruction. Those same two angels just sat by when Lot OFFERED HIS DAUGHTERS UP FOR GANG RAPE. The angels then arranged for Lot and his Family to escape Sodom, before poor Mrs. Lot looked back and got turned into a condiment.

So God had no problem with Lot fucking his daughters or offering them up for Gang Rape. In fact, even the New Testament describes Lot as "Righteous". The people of Sodom, even the children, all deserved to die, and Mrs. Lot got turned into salt for merely looking back when everything she knew was being destroyed. So God's moral judgement is REALLY clear in this story.

Homosexuality bad... incest good.

Two options:

• a. either you're portraying typical intellectual dishonesty, by 'drawing circle around an arrow' and intentionally omitting verses to evade a mature discussion

• b. or symptomatic problems with reading comprehension due to developmental problems

Let's address:

Um, no, the original Hebrew was "olah", which means "Burnt offering".

Incorrect, 'Olah literally means 'ascending',
as in 'Oleh - one who ascends to higher place.

Burnt offering is 'Isheh', or more specifically 'Korban Isheh'.

The thinking of Rabbinic and early Christian Scholars was that Jephthah sacrificed his daughter, and that it was an example of the lawlessness and depravity of Israel in the time of the Judges. The Disneyfied version of her dedicating her life to being a nun or some such shit (which really isn't much better, why should she give up family and love because her Dad promised something stupid to God?) is something the Fundies came up with when people started questioning Yahweh's role in the story.

The Rabbinic discussion regarding the way Yiftah fulfilled his oath was not conclusive,
because the text itself doesn't give clear definition, rather leaves it unspecified and open ended.

As for your little theory about reconciling various questions raising from the text as means for a cover up, ridiculous and irrelevant.

Okay, here are some problems with that argument. First, the story indicated that they had lived in the city of Zoar for quite some time. Then they moved out of Zoar after the destruction of Sodom

'Quiet some time' - where is this ever indicated in the text?
Text actually alludes Zoar was a resting station on the way to the mountain,
destroyed on the same day.

They lived in Zoar long enough to acquire enough wine to get poor old Lot drunk out of his mind, twice.

Again. it doesn't say that.
Let's assume they didn't have it on them.
how much time does it take to purchase a bottle of wine?

We could also argue the improbability of an elderly man getting an erection when drunk out of his mind, or knocking up two girls after only have sex with each once, but never mind.

Certainly, you can argue self-imposed strawmen in an echo chamber till cows grow beard.
But "knocking up" is not unconscious sex without consent - despite how you may find it self-persuading.

But they already knew they weren't the last people on Earth, they had just been in Zoar and there were plenty of people there.

Other way around.

Reading comprehension - read the verse you've just quoted :
"and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us" (Gen. 19:31)

Okay, let's look at that. Did God approve of Lot's behavior? Mind you, God dispatched TWO ANGELS to warn Lot of Sodom's impending destruction. Those same two angels just sat by when Lot OFFERED HIS DAUGHTERS UP FOR GANG RAPE. The angels then arranged for Lot and his Family to escape Sodom, before poor Mrs. Lot looked back and got turned into a condiment.

So God had no problem with Lot fucking his daughters or offering them up for Gang Rape. In fact, even the New Testament describes Lot as "Righteous". The people of Sodom, even the children, all deserved to die, and Mrs. Lot got turned into salt for merely looking back when everything she knew was being destroyed.

Either you're totally ignorant of basic parts of the story,
or too insecure to have mature discourse without reserving to intellectual dishonesty.

The angels didn't sit by but rather blinded the men, Lot was not considered 'righteous' for offering his daughters, nor did he himself consent or initiate for them to lay with him.

The story is supposed to shock, that's exactly what you cannot wrap your little mind around.
To show you what was Sodom, if measured against it Lot was considered 'righteous'. That G-d's judgement of people is not measuring them up to and expecting to behave as robotic-like angels, as if isolated from their surrounding and absolutely detached from their human nature.

So God's moral judgement is REALLY clear in this story.
Homosexuality bad... incest good.

Really, this is what you really think?

Sodom wasn't destroyed for homosexuality; neither the story approves of incest,
rather shows the length the daughters were willing to go to keep humanity alive.

Instead of twisting a handful of verses to project your insecurities,
try actually reading the book once.

 

[JoeB131]

Incorrect, 'Olah literally means 'ascending',
as in 'Oleh - one who ascends to higher place.

Burnt offering is 'Isheh', or more specifically 'Korban Isheh'.

Burnt offering (Judaism) - Wikipedia

A burnt offering in Judaism (Hebrew: korban olah) is a form of sacrifice first described in the Hebrew Bible. The term is first used of the sacrifices of Noah. As a tribute to God, a burnt offering was entirely burnt on the altar. A sacrifice (short for sacrifice of well-being) was partly burnt and most of it eaten in communion at a sacrificial meal.[1]

Jephthah burned his daughter. Deal with it.

Really, this is what you really think?

Sodom wasn't destroyed for homosexuality; neither the story approves of incest,
rather shows the length the daughters were willing to go to keep humanity alive.

Instead of twisting a handful of verses to project your insecurities,
try actually reading the book once.

I did read the book. Frankly, the story is kind of awful. Lot- who remember, was the righteous man God sent two angels to warn - offered his daughters to the angry mob to gang rape, and they wanted to gang rape those angels... Do angels even have buttholes? Would an angel need a butthole, since they don't need to eat? Well, never mind, Those Sodomites (you see, that's where we get the term) were going to totally have them some gay sex with those angels... to heck with Lot's virgin daughters.

Later on, Lot had drunken sex with his daughters... of course the drunken part was to 'excuse' him because he was supposed to be righteous, but how drunk do you have to get to have sex with your daughter, TWICE!

Of course, this was political propaganda, to slander their neighbors by saying they were a result of incest, therefore it was okay to slaughter them and take their land.

 

[gtopa1]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

Sometimes God says "No".

Greg

 

[JoeB131]

The Rabbinic discussion regarding the way Yiftah fulfilled his oath was not conclusive,
because the text itself doesn't give clear definition, rather leaves it unspecified and open ended.

I don't think it's inconclusive at all. Jephthah offered to sacrifice the first thing he encountered to Yahweh when he got home, if God let him kill the Ammonites... God helped him in killing the Ammonites, and then he went home and sacrificed his daughter. You can maybe excuse Jephthah for his foolishness, but God is omniscient... he should have totally saw that one coming, and he was fine with it.

Quiet some time' - where is this ever indicated in the text?
Text actually alludes Zoar was a resting station on the way to the mountain,
destroyed on the same day.

Actually, the text says nothing of the sort and calls Zoar a city.

22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.

23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.

Zoara - Wikipedia

Zoar is also mentioned in the book of Isaiah in connection to the Moabites (you know, one of the inbred tribes descended from Lot) which indicates it wasn't destroyed.

The angels didn't sit by but rather blinded the men, Lot was not considered 'righteous' for offering his daughters, nor did he himself consent or initiate for them to lay with him.

The story is supposed to shock, that's exactly what you cannot wrap your little mind around.
To show you what was Sodom, if measured against it Lot was considered 'righteous'. That G-d's judgement of people is not measuring them up to and expecting to behave as robotic-like angels, as if isolated from their surrounding and absolutely detached from their human nature.

Um, the point where he offered his daughters up for Gang Rape, is probably the time the Angels should have said, "Meh, fuck this guy." The daughters had drunken sex with Dad, they weren't worth saving, either.

On the bright side, though, Ruth was a Moabite, and she was an ancestor or David and Jesus, so this was all part of God's plan to fuck his own mother and give birth to himself.

And this book should totally be our guide to truth and morality. No really. In fact, I can't think of any way to go any crazier than this than...

Would you like to hear another testament of Jesus?

 

[Meriweather]

And this book should totally be our guide to truth and morality. No really. In fact, I can't think of any way to go any crazier than this than...

What did you learn from the story? Did you learn to behave like Lot and his family?

If you ever listen to country music, perhaps you are familiar with Alan Jackson's "Walk on the Rocks"?

Let my mistakes
Be your steppin' stones
And walk on the rocks that I stumbled on

If some of the deeper meanings of the story are of no interest to you, then walk on the rocks you see that Lot and his daughters stumbled on.

 

[DOTR]

Its about faith...

Faith in what?

If God didn't make the priest's sister quadriplegic, then who did?

Is the universe governed by a huge set of dice?

And if it is, what's the point of praying to God?

It was Gods will..despite the Jesuit’s faulty reasoning.

 

[DOTR]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

The universal human cry...

Mark 9:24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”

 

[JoeB131]

What did you learn from the story? Did you learn to behave like Lot and his family?

Not at all.

You see, the Nuns left out the part about the "offering for Gang Rape" and "Drunken Incest". They wanted to make damned sure we knew the important part of the story, that Mrs. Lot Looked back and got turned into Salt. Don't fuck with God, kiddies, or you'll get turned into a condiment!!!

Now, when I got to High School, the story was discussed in an English Class that used bible stories along with fiction. And the Brother who taught it, who wasn't just gay, he was flaming, said he didn't think it was a condemnation of homosexuality... even though the text approved by the church said it was.

(This brother was off the staff for some reason the next year. "Reassigned"... Hmmmmm)

If you ever listen to country music, perhaps you are familiar with Alan Jackson's "Walk on the Rocks"?

If some of the deeper meanings of the story are of no interest to you, then walk on the rocks you see that Lot and his daughters stumbled on.

Why? Frankly, the ONLY reason why Lot and his family were in that situation to start with was God was having a Cosmic hissy and decided to destroy their home and the city that it was in.

The thing was, Lot did awful things, and really got off scott free.

 

[Meriweather]

Not at all.

Precisely.

 

[Meriweather]

The thing was, Lot did awful things, and really got off scott free.

You know this how?

 

[JoeB131]

The thing was, Lot did awful things, and really got off scott free.

You know this how?

Da Bible Says SO!!!!

Everyone in Sodom died, even the little babies, but Lot went on to father nations.... on his own kids.

 

[Meriweather]

Da Bible Says SO!!!!

It is problematic when someone, after reading just one source, jumps to conclusions as to what happened based on their own perspective, language, and culture. The tale of Lot is told in story form, and it has themes and lessons some in today's modern culture clearly do not understand.

I am wondering if you would consider someone who read Gone With the Wind as having expertise on the Civil War because of a chapter they read in a story written in a later culture seventy years after the fact.

 

[OnePercenter]

The $1.2 Trillion bilk called organized religion. No thank you!

 

[JoeB131]

It is problematic when someone, after reading just one source, jumps to conclusions as to what happened based on their own perspective, language, and culture. The tale of Lot is told in story form, and it has themes and lessons some in today's modern culture clearly do not understand.

I am wondering if you would consider someone who read Gone With the Wind as having expertise on the Civil War because of a chapter they read in a story written in a later culture seventy years after the fact.

The Bible isn't gone with the Wind. the Bible is the UNERRING WORD OF GOD according to Christians (except for all the places it contradicts itself, but never mind.)

As Mark Twain said, 'It isn't the parts of the bible I don't understand that bother me, it's the parts I understand perfectly well!"

Of course, the churches know this story is all manner of fucked up, which is why they leave in the homophobia, and take out the offer of gang rape and incest.

They've "Disneyfied" it.

 

[Meriweather]

The Bible isn't gone with the Wind. the Bible is the UNERRING WORD OF GOD according to Christians (except for all the places it contradicts itself, but never mind.)

As Mark Twain said, 'It isn't the parts of the bible I don't understand that bother me, it's the parts I understand perfectly well!"

The Bible is written by man, inspired by God. There is something to learn from its words and its stories. When two Gentiles (you and Mark Twain) do not understand the history, culture, and language of Biblical times it cannot follow that the parts are understood "perfectly well."

My experience of God did not result in me understanding the Bible perfectly well. In fact, I was thoroughly confused by the Old Testament and how I saw it as portraying God. Then a study of the history, language, and cultures of the time shone a completely different light on what I had been familiar with before. Further study of rabbinical commentaries down through the centuries opened my eyes even further.

Start with seeking and finding God. Then, if it interests you, return to studying the Bible.

 

[luchitociencia]

Only a few who have had the opportunity of reviewing the Hebrew version of the Tanach without following "tradition", can surely stand firmly that the biblical stories seem to be credible. However, in many cases the narration without the interpretation of it using "tradition" says something different to what the conventional interpretation is about.

Same as well with the accepted Greek version of the New Testament.

In my opinion the historical narration of the bible since the apparition of man on earth is millions times more realistic an accurate than the current -so called- theories of science invented to explain the same.

What is happening to many religious people who are losing faith is that they are just falling in the trap made by others who post several caricatures and computer simulations, plus terms and names invented to explain imaginary past eras.

I laugh of those rare names like "speciation" , a word invented by evolutionists to describe one of their fantasies in reference to the development of the species. Unfortunately, even when evolutionists have repeated that word (lie) "a thousand times", such speciation never has became a truth.

Many people think that by mixing the doctrines of those good for nothing theories with the biblical narration, then they have become more "intellectual" while in reality they only have become more fool.

If you are losing your faith and you have decided to follow other doctrines, don't think that God will miss you. It is already very clear, you miss your seat, then another one will occupy it.

The hope is for everybody "to make it", but it is understood that many will fail.