America isn't prepared to deal with crime.

[Woodznutz]

You are in California? Excellent. Perhaps you can help me. How much more taxes are you willing to pay? I ask that because prisons cost money. A lot of money.

In this thread, your fellow Conservatives think that California is just releasing violent offenders because they are wimps.

Sacremento Shooter, released 6 years into a 10 year sentence...this is why we have gun crime...democrats and their policies.

So....when they didn't release the name of the shooter right away, that was the tell that the shooter wasn't 1) White, 2) a Trump supporter....... We don't have gun crime because we have guns, we have gun crime because the democrat party, it's judges, prosecutors and politicians, keep releasing...

www.usmessageboard.com

Now, none of them address the real problem. The problem of overcrowding. California is limited to running at 137.5% of capacity. You read that right. One third over capacity. to put that simply. If you have room for 100 people, California is allowed to put 137 and a half in that space.

Allowed by a Supreme Court Decision.

Brown v. Plata - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

California shows that it costs $106k a year to house a prisoner. That is a hundred thousand dollars, a year, to house a single prisoner.

Legislative Analyst's Office

lao.ca.gov

Now, that is a lot of money. But when you consider that California has more than 94k prisoners, you are starting to get an idea. Nearly ten billion dollars a year, every year, to house those prisoners.

California’s Prison Population Drops Sharply, but Overcrowding Still Threatens Prisoner Health

The state’s prison population declined by more than 20% in 2020 as authorities took steps to address the COVID-19 pandemic. But some California prisons are still well above capacity, posing potential health risks for prisoners and prison workers.

www.ppic.org

Well, execute those on death row you shout. Well that will save us a whopping eight million dollars. A year. That will really help the bottom line. Or something.

So my question is this. How much more are you willing to pay in taxes? How much more are you willing to pay to just lock the all up?

That is the problem with knee jerk common man style conservative answers. They never address anything but the surface of the problem. When it comes time to actually fix the problem, they won’t do it. Ever.

When will we see a Conservative running for office in California under the pay more taxes and lock the criminals up banner? No conservative would vote for anyone who campaigned on higher taxes, no matter what the taxes would be used for.

Take the money from other programs, that’s the conservative answer. Starve children, cut money to education, cut money to the elderly. But don’t raise taxes. Ever.

So what do you suggest California do? Raise taxes? Or just release the prisoners early?

The cost to the state is employment in the prison system and provisions and services bought from legit businesses. Those employees and businesses also pay taxes. It's all part of the economy. Of course the money could be better spent if there wasn't so much crime. Part of crime prevention is...locking up criminals.

 

[progressive hunter]

Selling and using drugs.

those arent real crimes,,

 

[Woodznutz]

When is this war supposed to start? Did all this crime suddenly start when Biden was elected? Thought so.

We've been deliberately losing the war. It's time to start winning.

 

[Woodznutz]

those arent real crimes,,

They cause real crimes.

 

[progressive hunter]

They cause real crimes.

then so does eating,,
you gonna make that illegal??

 

[Woodznutz]

then so does eating,,
you gonna make that illegal??

Users and addicts provide the all money for the drug trade, and thus facilitate all the crimes associated with it. Cut off head and the body dies. The users are the head.

 

[progressive hunter]

Users and addicts provide the all money for the drug trade, and thus facilitate all the crimes associated with it. Cut off head and the body dies. The users are the head.

hows that been working out for you after 60 yrs of the war on drugs??

 

[Woodznutz]

hows that been working out for you after 60 yrs of the war on drugs??

My proposals haven't been tried yet. The system is still busy milking the problem for all it's worth. In fact the 'Keystone Kops' approach has become part of our culture.

 

[progressive hunter]

My proposals haven't been tried yet.

what proposals are those??

 

[SavannahMann]

I am not smart enough to answer your question.

There are now so many bad people out of control in this country that it is impossible to lock them all up because of financial reasons (as you have pointed out) and because of social reasons (activists will charge "racism").

The United States of America is in big trouble.

The future for our great-grandchildren is dire, IMHO.


Have a nice day!

Ok, so we’ve agreed that we can’t afford to simply lock up everyone. So California, which has overcrowded Prisons, andJails, does what they can. They decide to ignore lesser crimes, like Shoplifting. Of course, the results are predictable. Shoplifting increases, but by not arresting and detaining shoplifters who will get a few weeks in jail as a general rule, they are able to keep robbers, rapists, drug dealers, and of course murderers in jails, and prisons.

It’s a question that is facing California’s justice system constantly. Who do we lock up? So the answer of lock them all up is being tried, but they just can’t lock them all up. They are running at 137% of capacity. That makes it more dangerous for the prisoners, and much more dangerous for the guards and workers.

Building more prisons to lock them all up would cost even more money, and we’re already talking about ten billion dollars a year, which no matter how you look at it, is a hell of a lot of money.

Now, there is an alternative. One of the realities we see in the world is that recidivism, or those committing more crimes once they are out of prison is higher in the US than most other nations. For America, the rate is unbelievable. Roughly speaking three quarters of those who are released from prison will commit another crime and be back in prison within five years.

Recidivism Rates by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

So the first thing we could do, and yes, it would cost more money, is to start programs designed to reduce that number. Using California, and rounding up a bit. Of the 100,000 people in prison today, roughly speaking 77,000 will be in prison again. So that revolving door that everyone denounces, is based not upon the softness of prisons, or the willingness to release people who have completed their sentences, but the propensity of people to commit more crimes when they have been released.

We can try some things to reduce that. Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world, and that saves them money, and reduces crime. That program is not based upon the idea that we’re not tough enough, but is based upon the idea that people can learn, and we can teach. Liberal nonsense according to some, but the results are there.

So let’s say we don’t get to Norways Recidivism rate. Let’s say we only cut our by a third. We get it down to fifty percent. That is still a reduction of twenty five thousand a year in California. Twenty five thousand fewer criminals. Out of the population of 100k.

That means we can lock up the repeat offenders longer, we can utilize the existing space more efficiently, and we reduce the crime rate at the same time. Twenty five thousand fewer criminals, means twenty five thousand fewer crimes.

Now, the program might not work, but it is worth a try isn’t it? We can’t build our way out of it. We can’t just build more prisons, we’re already paying a years tuition at Harvard as it is to lock up a single crook.

If Option A is not possible, we must look at other alternatives to see if anything else might work. And option A, just lock them all up, is not possible.

 

[SavannahMann]

The cost to the state is employment in the prison system and provisions and services bought from legit businesses. Those employees and businesses also pay taxes. It's all part of the economy. Of course the money could be better spent if there wasn't so much crime. Part of crime prevention is...locking up criminals.

As I pointed out, we can’t afford to lock up all the criminals. It cost more than $100k a year to lock up a crook in Prison. We can’t afford that at unlimited levels. No state, no nation can.

Crime Prevention you say. Excellent. Part of the problem with Prison is the repeat offender. Statistically about 75% of the people we release from prison with time served or parole will commit additional crimes. This is the revolving door that people denounce.

We have one of the highest Recidivism rates in the world. And we have the lowest budget for training of convicts for life on the outside.

Norway has an incredibly low Recidivism rate. Now, even if we adapted that program and began to use it. Even if it did not completely eliminate repeat offenders, but only reduced them by a third, that would still result in a reduction of the crime rate by what? 25% or so? Any President who ran for re-election on a reduction of crime by 25% would experience a landslide not seen since Reagan’s 1984 campaign.

Lock them up, get tough, stack them in the hallways, cut the budget for their food. Make them miserable. None of that has worked. Doubling down on the failed programs, that’s just stupid. It’s like those idiots who cry for Socialism. Sure it has never worked, ever, in history. But this time it will be different, I swear to God. The right people will be in charge this time.

Short of executing people for small crimes, and who wants to see that as our Justice system. We have tried the get tough approach. It’s time to start to try something else, several something else’s, to try and find something that does work.

 

[Woodznutz]

As I pointed out, we can’t afford to lock up all the criminals. It cost more than $100k a year to lock up a crook in Prison. We can’t afford that at unlimited levels. No state, no nation can.

Crime Prevention you say. Excellent. Part of the problem with Prison is the repeat offender. Statistically about 75% of the people we release from prison with time served or parole will commit additional crimes. This is the revolving door that people denounce.

We have one of the highest Recidivism rates in the world. And we have the lowest budget for training of convicts for life on the outside.

Norway has an incredibly low Recidivism rate. Now, even if we adapted that program and began to use it. Even if it did not completely eliminate repeat offenders, but only reduced them by a third, that would still result in a reduction of the crime rate by what? 25% or so? Any President who ran for re-election on a reduction of crime by 25% would experience a landslide not seen since Reagan’s 1984 campaign.

Lock them up, get tough, stack them in the hallways, cut the budget for their food. Make them miserable. None of that has worked. Doubling down on the failed programs, that’s just stupid. It’s like those idiots who cry for Socialism. Sure it has never worked, ever, in history. But this time it will be different, I swear to God. The right people will be in charge this time.

Short of executing people for small crimes, and who wants to see that as our Justice system. We have tried the get tough approach. It’s time to start to try something else, several something else’s, to try and find something that does work.

My point exactly. We need to try something else. The present system is a runaway train...hard to stop.

 

[TheParser]

Ok, so we’ve agreed that we can’t afford to simply lock up everyone. So California, which has overcrowded Prisons, andJails, does what they can. They decide to ignore lesser crimes, like Shoplifting. Of course, the results are predictable. Shoplifting increases, but by not arresting and detaining shoplifters who will get a few weeks in jail as a general rule, they are able to keep robbers, rapists, drug dealers, and of course murderers in jails, and prisons.

It’s a question that is facing California’s justice system constantly. Who do we lock up? So the answer of lock them all up is being tried, but they just can’t lock them all up. They are running at 137% of capacity. That makes it more dangerous for the prisoners, and much more dangerous for the guards and workers.

Building more prisons to lock them all up would cost even more money, and we’re already talking about ten billion dollars a year, which no matter how you look at it, is a hell of a lot of money.

Now, there is an alternative. One of the realities we see in the world is that recidivism, or those committing more crimes once they are out of prison is higher in the US than most other nations. For America, the rate is unbelievable. Roughly speaking three quarters of those who are released from prison will commit another crime and be back in prison within five years.

Recidivism Rates by State 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

So the first thing we could do, and yes, it would cost more money, is to start programs designed to reduce that number. Using California, and rounding up a bit. Of the 100,000 people in prison today, roughly speaking 77,000 will be in prison again. So that revolving door that everyone denounces, is based not upon the softness of prisons, or the willingness to release people who have completed their sentences, but the propensity of people to commit more crimes when they have been released.

We can try some things to reduce that. Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world, and that saves them money, and reduces crime. That program is not based upon the idea that we’re not tough enough, but is based upon the idea that people can learn, and we can teach. Liberal nonsense according to some, but the results are there.

So let’s say we don’t get to Norways Recidivism rate. Let’s say we only cut our by a third. We get it down to fifty percent. That is still a reduction of twenty five thousand a year in California. Twenty five thousand fewer criminals. Out of the population of 100k.

That means we can lock up the repeat offenders longer, we can utilize the existing space more efficiently, and we reduce the crime rate at the same time. Twenty five thousand fewer criminals, means twenty five thousand fewer crimes.

Now, the program might not work, but it is worth a try isn’t it? We can’t build our way out of it. We can’t just build more prisons, we’re already paying a years tuition at Harvard as it is to lock up a single crook.

If Option A is not possible, we must look at other alternatives to see if anything else might work. And option A, just lock them all up, is not possible.

Whoa!

I have to be very careful what I say.

To compare Norway with the United States is, well, not helpful.

For obvious reasons -- which I am loath to mention.

So I shall end this post by saying that there is NO solution to the violent crime problem in this country.

I remember one member many years ago who summed up the problem in one sentence. He opined that this nation is cursed. Of course, I do not have the guts to give his reason.

 

[Woodznutz]

Or as the mayor of Chicago recently put it, those young men do those horrible things because they are unloved.

Then why weren't they aborted (makes no sense).

 

[surada]

With over crowding states have been holding already sentenced criminals in county jails and paying those jails to house those prisoners. On top of that are private prisons as well. There is a whole lot of money being made from doing this. What's the answer I don't know, but I'm not a fan of anyone making bank on incarcerated prisoners.

Look at the investors in the private prison business. You'll be surprised.

 

[TheParser]

Unplanned
Unwanted
Uncared for
and
Unloved

Whose fault is that?

We all know the answer.

But we had better not say it.

 

[Mac-7]

Thanks to ambulance chasing bleeding heart ACLU lawyers prisons cost more than they should

 

[Woodznutz]

what proposals are those??

Start by arresting the drug addicts. This cuts off the money supply to the drug trade.

Crowds of addicts and users gather on street corners around the country at all hours of the day and night awaiting the dealers that sell them their drugs. The police wait for these dealers to appear and attempt to catch them making their deals. However, when they do make an arrest another dealer soon appears and business goes on as usual. They miss entirely the low hanging fruit right in front of them...the addicts and users.

There's also a rich harvest of addicts to be had when they overdose and wind up in the ER.

 

[Stashman]

Start by arresting the drug addicts. This cuts off the money supply to the drug trade.

Crowds of addicts and users gather on street corners around the country at all hours of the day and night awaiting the dealers that sell them their drugs. The police wait for these dealers to appear and attempt to catch them making their deals. However, when they do make an arrest another dealer soon appears and business goes on as usual. They miss entirely the low hanging fruit right in front of them...the addicts and users.

Not to mention how the left are letting them out without bail. This needs to stop, it's madness.

 

[progressive hunter]

Start by arresting the drug addicts. This cuts off the money supply to the drug trade.

Crowds of addicts and users gather on street corners around the country at all hours of the day and night awaiting the dealers that sell them their drugs. The police wait for these dealers to appear and attempt to catch them making their deals. However, when they do make an arrest another dealer soon appears and business goes on as usual. They miss entirely the low hanging fruit right in front of them...the addicts and users.

There's also a rich harvest of addicts to be had when they overdose and wind up in the ER.

so youre solution is to hunt down and jail or kill people for choosing their bodies belong to them and consume something you dont like,,,

theres many words for people like you,,, I will go with MONSTER,,