America's greatness is its working classes not "wealth" creators

[thereisnospoon]

Do any hater dupes have anything but idiotic talking points and stupid insults? I didn't think so....

Look who's talking...
Do you really want to suffer the embarrassment of having a bunch of your posts which are replete with insults?
Or do you think you should delete your post?

My insults are fact. You believe a pile of hateful, divisive, racist bs- brainwashing by greedy idiot billionnaires. A hater dupe.

Oh...I get it. YOUR insults are OK....It's everyone else who has a problem.
You and Ny( mr no substance) carbineer should go bowling together...
You two are a real cold exacta.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Do you understand how supply/demand work in markets? I'm not trying to be rude or condescending, I just don't know how familiar you are with economics.

Yes, I am somewhat familiar with the theory of supply and demand.

Here's National Income. It's a binary choice - either Labor or Capital.

Actually, that's an entirely legitimate argument. The nation which welcomes immigrants has no obligation to change to suit the tastes of immigrants. The obligation to change falls entirely on the immigrant for it is the immigrant who is choosing to settle in a new culture.

Citizens have every right to be upset when change is forced upon them, change that they didn't ask for and don't want.

Sorry, being afraid of change (that comes with an accent) is not a valid argument. Not when I see people who come here, beyond the initial entry, work hard and try to better themselves.

It doesn't matter. An immigrant choose to come here. The obligation of change falls entirely on the immigrant. They have a choice. A citizens has no choice and shouldn't have to have his culture eroded from underneath him in order to accommodate a newcomer.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Do any hater dupes have anything but idiotic talking points and stupid insults? I didn't think so....

Look who's talking...
Do you really want to suffer the embarrassment of having a bunch of your posts which are replete with insults?
Or do you think you should delete your post?

My insults are fact. You believe a pile of hateful, divisive, racist bs- brainwashing by greedy idiot billionnaires. A hater dupe.

Don't ever come on here and imply you do not have the same hateful biases of which you accuse others.
Your hypocrisy meter just maxed out.
Kitchen...Bring food.

 

[ricechickie]

Here's National Income. It's a binary choice - either Labor or Capital.

It doesn't matter. An immigrant choose to come here. The obligation of change falls entirely on the immigrant. They have a choice. A citizens has no choice and shouldn't have to have his culture eroded from underneath him in order to accommodate a newcomer.

I will admit you lost me with the chart, mainly because the vertical axis isn't labeled, and I don't know what NIPA and BLS are.

And again, the "change" argument is just xenophobic. Culture being "eroded"? Cry me a river. Cultures erode all the time. It can be sad, but it's an emotional issue.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What a crock. The facts state otherwise. The highest corporate tax rate in the world. Medical devices insanely taxed under obamacare. The middle class in steep decline. Middle class net worth in steep decline. Black youth unemployment higher than when he came to office. The rich one per centers seeing all the income gains in the last few years. Failure to approve pipeline which even unions want. Getting rid of good middle class coal jobs. The yoke of obamacare around the neck of all large and small businesses stifling progress and good jobs, and a president who is disengaged and ignorant about economic matters.

So the facts say that the working man has suffered mightily under the Obama administration and the rich have gotten richer but many still feed us the bull about how much democrats care, they have to be thanking their lucky stars for all the low information voters their educational system has created.

This has been going on for 32 years under Voodoo, which is defended to the death by the GOP. Our EFFECTIVE corporate tax rate is 12%, because their are so many GOP loopholes on giant corps. The tax on medical devices is very low. Why doesn't the GOP cut it- nobody gives a damn except hater dupes....

Hye genius. Our economy has ALWAYS been top down. Or trickle down.
Thos with the means open the businesses and offer the jobs. That's the way it is ....
Now if you want change, find me a penniless guy with some ideas to start his own business with no capital.
For that matter, why don't YOU give it a whirl?

2/3 of new jobs are from small business, the poor schooks who ACTUALLY pay those high corporate taxes.. I'm a retired teacher, thanks.

And your students had to be reeducated once they were released from the bondage of your classes.
Those very same business owners who you and other libs pillory on here, accusing them of being "rich and greedy" employ 60% of all US workers.
Don't blame them or anyone else for the methods by which they all attempt to use any advantage possible. Place your blame on the US Tax Code.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Meanwhile, back at the OP, Pubtrolls (the only kind), you are totally duped by greedy idiot billionnaires- who've wrecked the non-rich, the country, and the world. see #5. Thanks also for 9/11, the worst wars ever, a world depression, 5 years of mindless obstruction, and of course the worst voters ever, brainwashed loudmouth tools of greedy idiot rich. You.

Oh please....You should just ban yourself

 

[ricechickie]

I looked up NIPA and BLS. Just two different government entities.

Is the vertical axis a percentage?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Do you understand how supply/demand work in markets? I'm not trying to be rude or condescending, I just don't know how familiar you are with economics.

Yes, I am somewhat familiar with the theory of supply and demand.

So, what effect do you see arising from increasing labor supply?

This is why I'm not entirely convinced. "Labor" isn't a static entity. There are many different kinds of labor, from manual labor, skilled labor, technical labor, professional labor, etc.

I know what you're getting at, however. If the labor supply increases, then the price that employers are willing to pay will decrease.

Right on the general principle. There are different segments of the labor market which face isolated, or semi-isolated supply/demand curves. There is however an upwards march on the income ladder.

Roofers, bricklayers, and the best example, meatcutters at a slaughterhouse, used to be middle class jobs, but as labor supply increased, the salaries paid decreased. Roofers who employ American citizens cannot compete on price with those who employ infiltrators and so they go out of business. There is downward pressure on more and more segments of the labor force.

The only bight spot in the labor market is for those employed in professions where there is a high reward for cognitive skills. They're capturing a very large share of the gains they produce. This, of course, leads to the income inequality you decry. Bank traders and investment bankers earn high salaries but their employers can't really bid down those salaries to middle class levels because there simply are not enough viable candidates for the jobs who can perform to the same level.

The market is rewarding those with skills that are in short supply and punishing those with skills that are common place and in large supply.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Here's National Income. It's a binary choice - either Labor or Capital.

It doesn't matter. An immigrant choose to come here. The obligation of change falls entirely on the immigrant. They have a choice. A citizens has no choice and shouldn't have to have his culture eroded from underneath him in order to accommodate a newcomer.

I will admit you lost me with the chart, mainly because the vertical axis isn't labeled, and I don't know what NIPA and BLS are.

And again, the "change" argument is just xenophobic. Culture being "eroded"? Cry me a river. Cultures erode all the time. It can be sad, but it's an emotional issue.

From the Cleveland Fed:

Household income comes in two types: labor income, which includes wages, salaries, and other work-related compensation (such as pension and insurance benefits and incentive-based compensation), and capital income, which includes interest, dividends, and other realized investment returns (such as capital gains). During the last three decades, labor’s share of total income has declined in favor of capital income
​

All of the income produced in an economy can be sorted into two groups, it's either labor income or capital income. A gain for one is a loss for the other. That graph shows the split, but the graph below shows the gains going to the top 1%, which is what really interests those focused on income inequality.

 

[ricechickie]

Thank you, defining the labor and capital income made it much clearer.

Probably because I've only earned one kind of income in my life.

 

[Rikurzhen]

And again, the "change" argument is just xenophobic. Culture being "eroded"? Cry me a river. Cultures erode all the time. It can be sad, but it's an emotional issue.

I'm guessing that you're a woman. I'm pretty sure that you'd be crying a river if the culture changed via immigration such that Western feminist ideals were eroded and replaced with, oh let's say, Iranian female culteral models.

Oh, and the "but that's different" excuse doesn't fly.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The American left is no longer liberal but rather Reactionary, parasitic statists. rich leftwing elitists only care for the working class in terms of the votes

As long as they care. The GOP leadership obviously doesn't.

The Left: "We care! But only on election day".

 

[Rikurzhen]

Thank you, defining the labor and capital income made it much clearer.

Probably because I've only earned one kind of income in my life.

Those two graph lines on the NI chart indicate two different ways of measuring labor income.

 

[ricechickie]

I'm guessing that you're a woman. I'm pretty sure that you'd be crying a river if the culture changed via immigration such that Western feminist ideals were eroded and replaced with, oh let's say, Iranian female culteral models.

Oh, and the "but that's different" excuse doesn't fly.

If erosion in culture causes an erosion in rights, it IS different.

If it's an inconvenience, or "those people" make you feel uncomfortable, it's xenophobia.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What world do you live in, ec. Class warfare has always been a major part of our history. You better take some history classes while finishing your doctorate in economics. You accuse others of what you do when you say they are thinking in either or.

Class warfare is pointless. You said so yourself. Class warfare has been a part of our history.
It is pointless based on the adage "repeating the same things over and over again, expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity".

 

[Rikurzhen]

I'm guessing that you're a woman. I'm pretty sure that you'd be crying a river if the culture changed via immigration such that Western feminist ideals were eroded and replaced with, oh let's say, Iranian female culteral models.

Oh, and the "but that's different" excuse doesn't fly.

If erosion in culture causes an erosion in rights, it IS different.

If it's an inconvenience, or "those people" make you feel uncomfortable, it's xenophobia.

It doesn't matter whether it's xenophobia or not. Even if it is it's entirely defensible. When you invite a guest into your home and the guest starts demanding that you change your family customs, the guest is out of line. Same with immigration, the people of the welcoming nation HAVE NO OBLIGATION to change. They like their culture as it is. Trying to shame them by calling them xenophobes is, admittedly, an improvement over calling them racists, but it's still an unwarranted accusation. They can be xenophobes and they're still right and have the winning moral argument. The onus of change falls on the person who CHOSE to come to America, not on the people of America to bend to the wishes of the newly arrived.

 

[thereisnospoon]

View attachment 31510 Abraham Lincoln correctly said that labor is antecedent to capital.

2/3ds of our economy is propelled by our consumer.

The day will come again when our legislators remember and reward that, or they will be voted out of office.

No it isn't. Without the creation of business which creates the marketplace, there are no jobs.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The stupidity of the average conservative on this issue is that he doesn't realize that the Rich won't do him any special favors just because he sucks up to them. He's getting screwed as much as the next person.

Now see that is where you libs and we conservatives differ.
You look to others for what they "can do for you".....We look to see what we can do for ourselves then do it.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Jakey Fakey's a socialist. Now it all makes sense. You're not a Republican you fucking liar.

They are all socialist now Econ. Democratic Party of Truman or even JFK is dead.

Not socialists, social Democrats, and there is a difference. They don't want Cuba, they want Sweden.

They're becoming bolder about what they want, which is good, we need to have the conversation. This thread is a good example..

I created wealth because I had customers to buy my products. No customers, business fails. Ask your professors about that, EconChick.

Econchick believes that a businessman who understands the role of workers and consumers in the American economy is a socialist, which is fail on her part.

The far right once again willfully confuses socialism with social democratic economics.

The millenials will kick it up their asses. EconChick, Rik, and Bush92 are dinosaurs caught in the Mises tar pits; they are doomed.

Why would anyone start a business for which there is no marketplace?
Consumers do not exist in a vacuum waiting for some product to be manufactured.
Consumers are created by innovation and creation of new products.
Before cars were invented do you really think that stage coach drivers sat at their campfire thinking "boy I could really use a car right now".....?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The fact that the Rich spend their money is not a consolation prize for the oppression of the working class.

What oppression?
Please provide examples.....And don't reply with "CEO's make x times their workers"....That's not an answer.