An Atheists View of Kim Davis' Incarceration For Her Faith

[Vigilante]

 

[Skylar]

The minority, divisive group is the far right of the JimBowies.

They lost America because of their bad ways and can't have it back.

They keep control as long as dumb Americans don't vote in midterms.

And "they" have never been richer. Corporations control everything. Government, the media, the economy, the vote, war.

Poor white people are starting to realize to the rich we are all n#$%ers. Bruce Jenner is a rich conservative. Bush would rather live next to Herman Cain and Ben carson than my broke white ass.

There's an interesting documentary clip going around comparing the way that colonial america broke up the partnership of indentured servaants and slaves.......and how the same tactic is being applied to day.

Apparently, you don't necessarily need to get rid of gross disparities of power, wealth and status. You merely need to give one oppressed group the slightest edge to look down on another oppressed group. And it provides the former with a target of the latter for their anger and frustration.

I really hope as a species we're smarter than that.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[Searcher44]

^^^ Buncha malarkey.

A majority cannot make an unconstitutional act or law stand.

lol, and Starkey reminds us all what a complete moron he is.

The vote in Kentucky was BEFORE the SCOTUs ruling genius, and because I know you wont see the relevance to that, since you are a certified idiot, the SCOTUS reversed the state of Kentucky by judicial fiat, not as you described.


roflmao

Didn't some of your Founding Fathers (especially James Madison) worry about the "Tyranny if the Majority" and construct your Constitution in part to protect minorities from the excesses of mob rule? And of course the redress of harm, naturally obeying the laws of cause and effect, must follow the commission of that harm. As I see it the fact that the Kentucky vote was before the Scotus ruling in no way legitimizes it. You're not saying that every bad law enacted by the majority of any political body must stand in perpetuity by some perverse rule of legal primogeniture are you? Also I believe the fact you personally didn't think it "bad law" absolutely gives you the right to rail against SCOTUS and even agitate to have the SCOTUS ruling overturned with all the democratic tools at your command..

 

[Skylar]

^^^ Buncha malarkey.

A majority cannot make an unconstitutional act or law stand.

lol, and Starkey reminds us all what a complete moron he is.

The vote in Kentucky was BEFORE the SCOTUs ruling genius, and because I know you wont see the relevance to that, since you are a certified idiot, the SCOTUS reversed the state of Kentucky by judicial fiat, not as you described.


roflmao

Didn't some of your Founding Fathers (especially James Madison) worry about the "Tyranny if the Majority" and construct your Constitution in part to protect minorities from the excesses of mob rule? And of course the redress of harm, naturally obeying the laws of cause and effect, must follow the commission of that harm. As I see it the fact that the Kentucky vote was before the Scotus ruling in no way legitimizes it. You're not saying that every bad law enacted by the majority of any political body must stand in perpetuity by some perverse rule of legal primogeniture are you? Also I believe the fact you personally didn't think it "bad law" absolutely gives you the right to rail against SCOTUS and even agitate to have the SCOTUS ruling overturned with all the democratic tools at your command..

You're not going to make much headway. If the SCOTUS overturns a State law that limits gun access, they applaud. If the SCOTUS overturns a state law that limits rights of gays, they insist its 'judicial fiat'.

The only difference between a legitimate ruling and 'fiat' is their opinion of the ruling. Not the process. Not the State power that it overturns.

These folks are fundamentally hypocrites. Using logic to appeal to them isn't going to work out well for either of you. Its not their lingua franca.

 

[sear]

Sl,
Your point in post #100 is precisely a point I made in post #98.

"use the State to force your obedience to Christian dogma." Sl

How do you define "Christian"?

Leviticus 18:22 calls homosexuality an "abomination".
But I'm not aware of any teaching from Christ that says persons ("Christians") shouldn't issue marriage licenses.
Homophobia may be disproportionately represented in church-going populations (or not. Whatever).

But if Christians are supposed to obey the teachings of the Holy Bible, then what about: Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Do you have a legitimate reason to call homophobia "Christian dogma" Sl? Can you cite chapter and verse on it?

 

[Skylar]

Sl,
Your point in post #100 is precisely a point I made in post #98.

"use the State to force your obedience to Christian dogma." Sl

How do you define "Christian"?

The same way that folks like Davis and Huckabee do.

Leviticus 18:22 calls homosexuality an "abomination".
But I'm not aware of any teaching from Christ that says persons ("Christians") shouldn't issue marriage licenses.
Homophobia may be disproportionately represented in church-going populations (or not. Whatever).

But if Christians are supposed to obey the teachings of the Holy Bible, then what about: Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Do you have a legitimate reason to call homophobia "Christian dogma" Sl? Can you cite chapter and verse on it?

Can you cite any mention of marriage licenses in the bible? Or any mention of a pope? Christmas? Hell, any mentions of the Bible in the Bible.

Direct scriptural reference isn't necessary for dogma. Belief and interpretation is. As for which interpretations result in which dogma, you'll need to talk to those who believe. As I neither know their arguments nor care to defend them.

I simply acknowledge that such dogma exists. And reject it being forced upon the unwilling by one woman who 'believes'.

 

[Searcher44]

The minority, divisive group is the far right of the JimBowies.

They lost America because of their bad ways and can't have it back.

They keep control as long as dumb Americans don't vote in midterms.

And "they" have never been richer. Corporations control everything. Government, the media, the economy, the vote, war.

Poor white people are starting to realize to the rich we are all n#$%ers. Bruce Jenner is a rich conservative. Bush would rather live next to Herman Cain and Ben carson than my broke white ass.

There's an interesting documentary clip going around comparing the way that colonial america broke up the partnership of indentured servaants and slaves.......and how the same tactic is being applied to day.

Apparently, you don't necessarily need to get rid of gross disparities of power, wealth and status. You merely need to give one oppressed group the slightest edge to look down on another oppressed group. And it provides the former with a target of the latter for their anger and frustration.

I really hope as a species we're smarter than that.

Most of my life I really believed that America really was the Exceptional Country leading the rest of us to a better world, even with a pretty un-naive recognition of the ugly, sometimes evil array of sins in her closet. Lately I've begun to fear the voices from the Conservative paid shills for the Corporate elite who seem to be claiming the right to lead by a divine right earned by overwhelming power and not by the moral compass that in the end always seemed to point America in the right direction. I fear a majority of Americans will ignorantly fall for the lies about the Iran deal because they're too stupid or lazy to figure out the truth for themselves and you guys will blindly, inevitably be sucked into another Mid-East war that will only benefit the same war profiteers who got a lot richer during the last horror show and cost the rest of you (and Millions in the middle East) so dearly. If you let those neocon bastards fool you again I'm tempted to say that you deserve to become the third world country they're slowly turning you into. In the end I fear America's power will crumble Rome-like under the weight of the Plutocratic greed, hatefull and yet worshipped by those not smart enough to see through the lies Big Money has been force feeding the People for the last 40+ years. As I watched her workers cheer the destruction of the very Unions who had secured and were a bastion under-pinning her middle class who's attainment of the American Dream was one of the beacons encouraging hope in the rest of the world I actually grew angry at the apathetic public grown too complacent and brainwashed into a self induced stupidity, sucking up Wall Street's lies that Wall Street's prosperity meant the people's prosperity. And swallowing the really big lies, like the lie that public education is akin to Communism and the lie that public health care was "wealth distribution" and that was Evil Incarnate. Are you too dumb to realize that wealth being redistributed upwards is yours? Don't you realize that your productivity has been great but that you haven't shared in it's wealth creation? Where did that productivity created wealth that you deserved the lions share of go? You know where it went. It went upwards, and not in a trickle but a gravity defying Niagra of $100 Million bonuses and Golden Parachutes and Billionaire creating stock options.Have you people forgotten that that's your land they're pumping their obscene wealth out of? And your airwaves the Mass Media is making obscene unbounded wealth from. And your taxes that are funding the loopholes that allow the modern day robber barons to amass more billions and allow them to park their assets in offshore tax havens while you fight over the scraps? The poster I'm replying to hopes in the end the American public will prove to be smarter than this, myself I think it's just as likely they will not. The evidence is almost overwhelming. While the Republican's only role in Congress has been to expend it's underwhelming energy blocking any action and therefore denying Obama any traction (from up here where the air may be a little clearer we can't help but suspect more than a moderate tinge of conscious and unconscious racism in their do nothing strategy and Fox New's constant attempts to manufacture scandal at every turn, all Roger's puppets spouting the same unfair and unbalanced rhetoric to the point of orchestrated lie campaigns at times and spouting talking points in controlled lockstep like so many a stepford spouse, married to Roger's largesse and not, as Journalists mostly were in the old days, wedded to telling the truth to us and to power. The American people should be heard in a chorus like in that movie, "We're Mad as Hell And We're Not Going To Take it Anymore". Citizens have an obligation and duty to keep themselves educated and wary of that slimy hand reaching for their pocket book and their dignity while the bastards claim in full-throated hypocritical hyper moral memes that it's for your own good. Don't let us down America.

 

[sealybobo]

The minority, divisive group is the far right of the JimBowies.

They lost America because of their bad ways and can't have it back.

They keep control as long as dumb Americans don't vote in midterms.

And "they" have never been richer. Corporations control everything. Government, the media, the economy, the vote, war.

Poor white people are starting to realize to the rich we are all n#$%ers. Bruce Jenner is a rich conservative. Bush would rather live next to Herman Cain and Ben carson than my broke white ass.

There's an interesting documentary clip going around comparing the way that colonial america broke up the partnership of indentured servaants and slaves.......and how the same tactic is being applied to day.

Apparently, you don't necessarily need to get rid of gross disparities of power, wealth and status. You merely need to give one oppressed group the slightest edge to look down on another oppressed group. And it provides the former with a target of the latter for their anger and frustration.

I really hope as a species we're smarter than that.

Most of my life I really believed that America really was the Exceptional Country leading the rest of us to a better world, even with a pretty un-naive recognition of the ugly, sometimes evil array of sins in her closet. Lately I've begun to fear the voices from the Conservative paid shills for the Corporate elite who seem to be claiming the right to lead by a divine right earned by overwhelming power and not by the moral compass that in the end always seemed to point America in the right direction. I fear a majority of Americans will ignorantly fall for the lies about the Iran deal because they're too stupid or lazy to figure out the truth for themselves and you guys will blindly, inevitably be sucked into another Mid-East war that will only benefit the same war profiteers who got a lot richer during the last horror show and cost the rest of you (and Millions in the middle East) so dearly. If you let those neocon bastards fool you again I'm tempted to say that you deserve to become the third world country they're slowly turning you into. In the end I fear America's power will crumble Rome-like under the weight of the Plutocratic greed, hatefull and yet worshipped by those not smart enough to see through the lies Big Money has been force feeding the People for the last 40+ years. As I watched her workers cheer the destruction of the very Unions who had secured and were a bastion under-pinning her middle class who's attainment of the American Dream was one of the beacons encouraging hope in the rest of the world I actually grew angry at the apathetic public grown too complacent and brainwashed into a self induced stupidity, sucking up Wall Street's lies that Wall Street's prosperity meant the people's prosperity. And swallowing the really big lies, like the lie that public education is akin to Communism and the lie that public health care was "wealth distribution" and that was Evil Incarnate. Are you too dumb to realize that wealth being redistributed upwards is yours? Don't you realize that your productivity has been great but that you haven't shared in it's wealth creation? Where did that productivity created wealth that you deserved the lions share of go? You know where it went. It went upwards, and not in a trickle but a gravity defying Niagra of $100 Million bonuses and Golden Parachutes and Billionaire creating stock options.Have you people forgotten that that's your land they're pumping their obscene wealth out of? And your airwaves the Mass Media is making obscene unbounded wealth from. And your taxes that are funding the loopholes that allow the modern day robber barons to amass more billions and allow them to park their assets in offshore tax havens while you fight over the scraps? The poster I'm replying to hopes in the end the American public will prove to be smarter than this, myself I think it's just as likely they will not. The evidence is almost overwhelming. While the Republican's only role in Congress has been to expend it's underwhelming energy blocking any action and therefore denying Obama any traction (from up here where the air may be a little clearer we can't help but suspect more than a moderate tinge of conscious and unconscious racism in their do nothing strategy and Fox New's constant attempts to manufacture scandal at every turn, all Roger's puppets spouting the same unfair and unbalanced rhetoric to the point of orchestrated lie campaigns at times and spouting talking points in controlled lockstep like so many a stepford spouse, married to Roger's largesse and not, as Journalists mostly were in the old days, wedded to telling the truth to us and to power. The American people should be heard in a chorus like in that movie, "We're Mad as Hell And We're Not Going To Take it Anymore". Citizens have an obligation and duty to keep themselves educated and wary of that slimy hand reaching for their pocket book and their dignity while the bastards claim in full-throated hypocritical hyper moral memes that it's for your own good. Don't let us down America.

Did you write that because it was brilliant. Where you live?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You as a citizen have a civil liberty to get a marriage license without some one denying it because you do not abide by her religious values. The Hillary thing is not comparable. So you have made a fallacy of false equivalency,

 

[JakeStarkey]

The far right continues to be the greatest obstacle to American exceptionalism.

 

[sear]

"Direct scriptural reference isn't necessary for dogma." Sl

Yes.
You're quite right.

But the term you used was "Christian" dogma. So I ask yet again. What makes it "Christian"? Simply being popular with Christians?
T-shirts are popular with Christians. Does that render T-shirts "Christian" underwear?

"Truth is not determined by majority opinion." Italo Benin PhD

Sl adds:

"Can you cite any mention of marriage licenses in the bible? Or any mention of a pope? Christmas?" Sl

Even though there are "red letter" Bibles, the history I've studied of it indicate none of the scribes whose writing laid the groundwork for Christianity ever met J.C.
They missed him by over half a century I believe.

"Hell, any mentions of the Bible in the Bible." Sl

All of it.
Every scriptural word in the Holy Bible is biblical.

And though the administrative procedures have changed, marriage was common in biblical times.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Saint Kimbo Davis, Patron Saint of Bigots is saying she will suffer “injury to her conscience and individual liberties” that can never be repaired......you mean getting married four times and having children out of wedlock did not damage her conscience...........

 

[Carla_Danger]

I would like to remind everyone that JimBob's source got his GED in prison and was kicked out of a Libertarian group for advocating violence.

You can't make this shit up.

 

[Skylar]

"Direct scriptural reference isn't necessary for dogma." Sl

Yes.
You're quite right.

But the term you used was "Christian" dogma. So I ask yet again. What makes it "Christian"? Simply being popular with Christians?

Its dogma of Christians. That's Christian dogma. The condemnation of homosexuality in Christianity isn't some random and isolated exception. Its extensive and widespread among Christians. Its condemned by the leaders of the overwhelming majority of Christian sects. And as Davis demonstrates, by plenty of their followers as well.

T-shirts are popular with Christians. Does that render T-shirts "Christian" underwear?

The position to same sex marriage and homosexuality is a product of their faith. Underwear aren't.

All of it.
Every scriptural word in the Holy Bible is biblical.

But is there mention of a Bible? Not once. These were individual accounts, letters, prophecies, etc that Christians ASSEMBLED into a Bible much later. Often centuries later. The words of the Bible itself never make the slightest reference to the compilation called 'The Bible' they were eventually folded into.

Yet the Bible is most definitely part of Christian belief and Christian dogma despite the lack of a single biblical reference to such a tome. And at this point its a moot, as you've already conceded the point that Christian dogma need not have direct scriptural reference to exist.

 

[sear]

"Its dogma of Christians. That's Christian dogma." Sl

In casual spoken speech perhaps, on first pass.
But this is more formal writing, and when challenged for clarification, better precision is appropriate.

I'm not just making it up as I go along. Read the definition of "dogma".

dogma (dôg´me, dòg´-) noun
plural dogmas or dogmata (-me-te)
1.Theology. A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
2.An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. See synonyms at doctrine.
3.A principle or belief or a group of them: "The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present" (Abraham Lincoln).

[Latin, from Greek, opinion, belief, from dokein, to seem, think.]

Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

NONE of those definitions suit Davis' homophobia.

The poll data I've read on it lately indicates public sentiment on it has swung far and fast.

I think it's not merely insulting but inaccurate to call bigotry or homophobia "Christian dogma", even if it is present in many self-declared Christians.

"The position to same sex marriage and homosexuality is a product of their faith. Underwear aren't." Sl

No.
I've already asked upon what Christian principle ("dogma") homophobia is based. Your evasive answer confirms my suspicion. There isn't any. Just because the bigot is religious doesn't make homophobia "Christian dogma".

"But is there mention of a Bible? Not once." Sl

Please don't be silly.

a) It says "Bible" right on the cover!

b) The Holy Bible isn't "a book". It's a bound volume of numerous books, with names like Genesis & Corinthians.

c) "These [Biblical] books existed in the oral tradition for hundreds of thousands of years. They finally wrote them down in aramaic, later translated into Greek, & then Latin, and finally English, hundreds and hundreds of revisions: and this is supposed to be absolute direct word of God. ... ." actor John Fugelsang

d) The Holy Bible has been in flux for millennia. There are updated versions (when I was a child it was "thou shalt not kill". Today it's "thou shalt not murder".

e) How many times did Shakespeare mention "Shakespeare" in The Tempest.

And you should know, Christmas is inspired by pagan holiday traditions, and has more to do with Santa Claus than J.C.

 

[Vigilante]

You as a citizen have a civil liberty to get a marriage license without some one denying it because you do not abide by her religious values. The Hillary thing is not comparable. So you have made a fallacy of false equivalency,

No, I didn't...you leftwingnuts simply push out your false narrative equivalents Hoping you shit sticks with the uninformed!!

 

[Vigilante]

The far right continues to be the greatest obstacle to American exceptionalism.

And that is why you, & your beloved Obuma don't believe in American exceptionalism!

 

[AvgGuyIA]

^^^ Buncha malarkey.

A majority cannot make an unconstitutional act or law stand.

lol, and Starkey reminds us all what a complete moron he is.

The vote in Kentucky was BEFORE the SCOTUs ruling genius, and because I know you wont see the relevance to that, since you are a certified idiot, the SCOTUS reversed the state of Kentucky by judicial fiat, not as you described.


roflmao

Gay marriage is now legal throughout the U.S. The End.

lol, no it wont be the end, just like Roe wasn't the end and Dred Scott wasn't the end.

This will not remain US law for the next fifty years or the USA will cease to exist.

You really think so little of America and Americans?

That if you don't get your way you think the USA 'will cease to exist'?

But Dred Scott gives you an answer- you don't like the ruling of the Supreme Court- all you have to do is pass a Constitutional Amendment overturning the ruling.

Going to be hard to do though with the majority of Americans disagreeing with you.

It would be easy to install state legislatures who will call for a constutional convention to outlaw gay marriage. Most people don't bother voting in state elections. The Chirstian churches (a la Moral Majority) could easily outvote what you consider the "majority" who agree with gay marriage.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

JimBowieTard, you are a crack up. Keep the humor coming.

The left is no more commie than the right is nazi. But you are indeed a fascist.

Fact is the Left is both commie and Nazi. All three adhere to Socialism.