An Athiest Student as she has claimed, brings a lawsuit with the help of the ACLU?

[hortysir]

True, and it's not the first time they've been wrong. Probably won't be the last either.

Our only recourse is a change in Administration and Appointees that would hear a case to reverse it.
It ain't gonna happen, Cap'n.

No, it's not. we've basically lost our country.

I wouldn't go to that extreme.

I would rather keep the ban in place rather than reverse it and witness a tidal wave of Christian imagery on Public property and deal with the outcry that 'we' are "shoving it down their throats".
We can witness and testify without encroaching on what is 'Caesar's'.

I'll keep my relationship with Jesus Christ private, thank you

 

[Photonic]

Our only recourse is a change in Administration and Appointees that would hear a case to reverse it.
It ain't gonna happen, Cap'n.

No, it's not. we've basically lost our country.

I wouldn't go to that extreme.

I would rather keep the ban in place rather than reverse it and witness a tidal wave of Christian imagery on Public property and deal with the outcry that 'we' are "shoving it down their throats".
We can witness and testify without encroaching on what is 'Caesar's'.

I'll keep my relationship with Jesus Christ private, thank you

Your book says that's what Jesus wanted of his followers. So that makes perfect sense.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Concentrate on changing the laws against athiests, not on taking away the rights of religous people, which is what this girl and the aclu did.

One would need standing to do that, does her state have punitive laws with regard to those free from faith?

Otherwise religious people’s rights are not being ‘taken away.’ Nowhere in the doctrine or dogma of any Christian sect is one required to hang a religions banner in a school, or that the failure to do so violates the tenet of any Christian sect.

The girl and the ACLU merely documented the school’s violation of established and settled case law, the school paid the price for its failure to follow the law consequently.

Don’t blame the girl and the ACLU because the school was out of compliance.

I have the right to my religion. I have the right to display my religion in puplic, you do not have the right to deny me that…

That was never at issue – in no way does the banner case restrict public religious expression, no one’s right to practice his religion or to make a public display of his religion has been preempted.

The Constitution does forbid, however, the conjoining of church and State, such as religion endorsed and displayed in the public sector where such case law is applicable.

You do not have a right to freedom FROM religion.

Incorrect.

One has the right to be free from religion – freedom of conscience – in the context of the public sector, that religious dogma may not be codified in secular law, and church and State may not be conjoined.

A banner given to the school by the graduating class 49 years ago is not school sponsored prayer.

Incorrect.

It is an endorsement of religion by the school (state), it has no secular purpose, it is intended to promote religion, and it constitutes an unacceptable entanglement of religion and the school (the state).

How long ago the banner was given or by whom is irrelevant.

Do you really think our forefathers wanted prayer banned from public building, even schools when the set it up to start congress with a prayer?

It is clear that the Framers intended for there to be a separation of church and State, that public sector entities were to be religiously neutral, and that it is the purview of the courts through the process of judicial review to determine on a case by case basis which circumstance constitutes a violation of the First Amendment and which does not.

Consequently, this and similar decisions comport with the Framers original intent, as determined by the Supreme Court.

 

[Dragon]

If any of our Christian friends really want to understand where this is coming from, all that's necessary is to imagine a child of yours attending the same school, with the same message on the wall bracketed by any of the following instead of "our heavenly Father" and "Amen":

"In the name of Allah, the compassionate, the merciful . . . In peace."

"O Great Mother, hear our plea . . . So mote it be."

Either of those would also violate the First Amendment. Do you understand why now?

Incidentally, an issue of this kind from a Neopagan perspective DID come up some years ago. A town in Georgia that happened to have a majority Pagan population (how the heck that happened I have no idea), passed an ordinance to declare a certain day "Earth Religion Day." I signed a petition asking that the ordinance be repealed, and included a personal note explaining that, as a Pagan, I was very conscious of being in the minority in this country, and the First Amendment's prohibition on establishment of religion is there to protect us as much as anything. If we can do this, I explained, so can they -- and there are more of them.

The ordinance was repealed before a case could be brought by non-Pagan residents. But they'd have won the case, and rightly so.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No, it's not. we've basically lost our country.

Nonsense.

If anything we’ve found our true country during the last 50 years, one of equality, religious freedom, and civil liberties.

 

[JohnA]

well the nation thou govt over the years have done a wonderful job passing laws resticting the churches self given right to persecute imprison, maim or even kill those who disagree with its doctrine .
there are some *values and morals* of the christian religion that needs to be resticted .

like the right of a women to choice what she does with her body .
the right of a person to sleep with whom they choose
.and the right of children not to be molested by priests
we still have a long way to go to purge the nation of these questionable VALUES

What a minute, you said people have a right to sleep with whom they choose, then you say Priest don't have a right to molest children. I think you don't understand what you are saying. The truth is that people don't have the right to sleep with whom they choose, unless both people are consenting adults.

And I don't believe anyone has ever said priests have the right to molest children. NO ONE has the right to do that.

I caught all that to, but I just chalked it up to ignorance, so I didn't even respond to it....ugggh

so i left out the words *consenting adults * nit pick my typing doesnt invalidate the message
the message was clear
nobody has the right to molest children tell that to the priests who preach to others values &morals to get their own house in order first

before you call a fellow poster *ignorant* look at some of the crap you post not only are you ignorant your bigoted and intolerant as well asshole

 

[Againsheila]

If any of our Christian friends really want to understand where this is coming from, all that's necessary is to imagine a child of yours attending the same school, with the same message on the wall bracketed by any of the following instead of "our heavenly Father" and "Amen":

"In the name of Allah, the compassionate, the merciful . . . In peace."

"O Great Mother, hear our plea . . . So mote it be."

Either of those would also violate the First Amendment. Do you understand why now?

Incidentally, an issue of this kind from a Neopagan perspective DID come up some years ago. A town in Georgia that happened to have a majority Pagan population (how the heck that happened I have no idea), passed an ordinance to declare a certain day "Earth Religion Day." I signed a petition asking that the ordinance be repealed, and included a personal note explaining that, as a Pagan, I was very conscious of being in the minority in this country, and the First Amendment's prohibition on establishment of religion is there to protect us as much as anything. If we can do this, I explained, so can they -- and there are more of them.

The ordinance was repealed before a case could be brought by non-Pagan residents. But they'd have won the case, and rightly so.

Well, I believe you're wrong. I would have no problem with Allah. Just because I'm not Muslim doesn't mean other people aren't and I'm more than willing to learn something from them. Same with all other religions.

I would have no problem with an Earth Religion Day. Christmas is a national holiday. Thanksgiving is a national holiday. What's wrong with an "earth religion day"?

 

[Photonic]

If any of our Christian friends really want to understand where this is coming from, all that's necessary is to imagine a child of yours attending the same school, with the same message on the wall bracketed by any of the following instead of "our heavenly Father" and "Amen":

"In the name of Allah, the compassionate, the merciful . . . In peace."

"O Great Mother, hear our plea . . . So mote it be."

Either of those would also violate the First Amendment. Do you understand why now?

Incidentally, an issue of this kind from a Neopagan perspective DID come up some years ago. A town in Georgia that happened to have a majority Pagan population (how the heck that happened I have no idea), passed an ordinance to declare a certain day "Earth Religion Day." I signed a petition asking that the ordinance be repealed, and included a personal note explaining that, as a Pagan, I was very conscious of being in the minority in this country, and the First Amendment's prohibition on establishment of religion is there to protect us as much as anything. If we can do this, I explained, so can they -- and there are more of them.

The ordinance was repealed before a case could be brought by non-Pagan residents. But they'd have won the case, and rightly so.

Well, I believe you're wrong. I would have no problem with Allah. Just because I'm not Muslim doesn't mean other people aren't and I'm more than willing to learn something from them. Same with all other religions.

I would have no problem with an Earth Religion Day. Christmas is a national holiday. Thanksgiving is a national holiday. What's wrong with an "earth religion day"?

So if they adopted it as their school prayer you wouldn't have a problem? Can you really say the same about a majority of Christians? Considering the reaction to this case.

 

[Againsheila]

What a minute, you said people have a right to sleep with whom they choose, then you say Priest don't have a right to molest children. I think you don't understand what you are saying. The truth is that people don't have the right to sleep with whom they choose, unless both people are consenting adults.

And I don't believe anyone has ever said priests have the right to molest children. NO ONE has the right to do that.

I caught all that to, but I just chalked it up to ignorance, so I didn't even respond to it....ugggh

so i left out the words *consenting adults * nit pick my typing doesnt invalidate the message
the message was clear
nobody has the right to molest children tell that to the priests who preach to others values &morals to get their own house in order first

before you call a fellow poster *ignorant* look at some of the crap you post not only are you ignorant your bigoted and intolerant as well asshole

Um, that would be you're as in "you are", making a mistake like that when you are calling someone "ignorant" makes you look all the worse.

You're calling me an "asshole" and I'm "intollerant" and "ignorant?"

Take heart, I am now leaving this discussion. I've offered to lay down my life for the rights of athiests to run for public office, I can do no more.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

A) its OK to force religion on people who don't complain about it

therefore

B) its not OK to complain about religion being forced on you


got it

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What's wrong with an "earth religion day"?

Nothing.

Provided it’s not in the public sector or conforms with established case law if it is.

So if they adopted it as their school prayer you wouldn't have a problem?

Fortunately it’s not up to voters to decide.

I am now leaving this discussion.

Pity, it was just getting interesting.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Ok....if this is the case we are talking about, it is a blatant violation of the school prayer edict. Your religion has no place in public schools. It does as much to protect your children as it does an Atheists

{As an atheist, Ahlquist said the 8-foot-high and 4-foot-wide mural caused her to feel excluded and ostracized}

Only a small minded turd feels "excluded and ostracized" by inanimate objects.

This is why I point out that Atheists are sacks of shit, using government to force adherence to their fucked up religion on everyone else.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I can't understand why religious zealots would insist on pushing their religious beliefs in a public school. School children are a captive audience.

How would you react if your child came home and told you her atheist teacher had told the class there was no god?

They do that all the time. My son's high school biology teacher railed on how stupid anyone believing in god was all the time.

How would you react if your child came home and told you that they had been kneeling on prayer rugs twice a day and praying to Allah and she asked if she could do it at home too?

A mural doesn't compel any act on the part of a student, it is a passive display. To ban such is censorship.

I imagine that a crucifix is a jar of urine or a picture of the virgin Mary covered in shit is just fine with you for display at public schools.

The USA is 17th in math and science among nations - good thing we put our effort towards persecuting Christians, good use of resources....

 

[Photonic]

I can't understand why religious zealots would insist on pushing their religious beliefs in a public school. School children are a captive audience.

How would you react if your child came home and told you her atheist teacher had told the class there was no god?

They do that all the time. My son's high school biology teacher railed on how stupid anyone believing in god was all the time.

How would you react if your child came home and told you that they had been kneeling on prayer rugs twice a day and praying to Allah and she asked if she could do it at home too?

A mural doesn't compel any act on the part of a student, it is a passive display. To ban such is censorship.

I imagine that a crucifix is a jar of urine or a picture of the virgin Mary covered in shit is just fine with you for display at public schools.

The USA is 17th in math and science among nations - good thing we put our effort towards persecuting Christians, good use of resources....

Good thing those Christians put forth so much effort into making the education system a Church instead of a place of learning. Good way to keep us at the top in all those subjects.


RIGHT?!

As to your previous post, I am disgusted by how much misinformation can be crammed into a single statement but hell, you sure managed to dump a lot of it in there.

As to the biology teacher, he had no right to do that either.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Good thing those Christians put forth so much effort into making the education system a Church instead of a place of learning. Good way to keep us at the top in all those subjects.

Christians? This is the anti-Christian bigots, those stupid fucks claiming that inanimate objects "compel" them to worship. What a bunch of weak minded fucks you are. You walk by a mural and suddenly you MUST FALL ON YOUR KNEES AND ACCEPT JEEZZZZUZZ..

RIGHT?!

As to your previous post, I am disgusted by how much misinformation can be crammed into a single statement but hell, you sure managed to dump a lot of it in there.

You fucking atheists are nearly as bad as the Muslims with your dogma and intolerance of any belief save your stupid religion. Yeah, you don't cut people's heads off on Al Jazeera, I'll grant you that.

But somehow, I get the nagging feeling that if you thought you could get away with it, PBS would be non-stop beheadings.

 

[Photonic]

Good thing those Christians put forth so much effort into making the education system a Church instead of a place of learning. Good way to keep us at the top in all those subjects.

Christians? This is the anti-Christian bigots, those stupid fucks claiming that inanimate objects "compel" them to worship. What a bunch of weak minded fucks you are. You walk by a mural and suddenly you MUST FALL ON YOUR KNEES AND ACCEPT JEEZZZZUZZ..

RIGHT?!

As to your previous post, I am disgusted by how much misinformation can be crammed into a single statement but hell, you sure managed to dump a lot of it in there.

You fucking atheists are nearly as bad as the Muslims with your dogma and intolerance of any belief save your stupid religion. Yeah, you don't cut people's heads off on Al Jazeera, I'll grant you that.

But somehow, I get the nagging feeling that if you thought you could get away with it, PBS would be non-stop beheadings.

Yea, after years of hitting everyone else over the head with their fucking Bible, we are finally finding the voice to ask them to stop, and we get called bigots for it.

Fuck you.

Somehow I know the religious would be more than happy to start murdering atheists again. Can't imagine where I would get that idea, considering it's never happened before.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yea, after years of hitting everyone else over the head with their fucking Bible, we are finally finding the voice to ask them to stop, and we get called bigots for it.

Wow, y'all even adopt the prose of the more archaic religions... "Yea though I walk past words which I hate, I shall not falter, for I am an Atheist and are.... Ohhh, Ohhh, I am yielding to printed words on a wall, for I am an Atheist er my mind is weak..."

ROFL

Fuck you.

What a brilliant retort - one generally expects such wit only from those compelled by words on a wall....

Somehow I know the religious would be more than happy to start murdering atheists again. Can't imagine where I would get that idea, considering it's never happened before.

Shall we examine how many Atheists have been murdered by Christians versus the opposite.

Mao slaughtered 4 million Christians. The Inquisition accounts for about 2,000 victims - a few of them might have actually been Atheists. You only need 3,998,000 more to account for Mao alone. Then we can talk about Stalin, Ho, Pol Pot.......

 

[Photonic]

Yea, after years of hitting everyone else over the head with their fucking Bible, we are finally finding the voice to ask them to stop, and we get called bigots for it.

Wow, y'all even adopt the prose of the more archaic religions... "Yea though I walk past words which I hate, I shall not falter, for I am an Atheist and are.... Ohhh, Ohhh, I am yielding to printed words on a wall, for I am an Atheist er my mind is weak..."

ROFL

Fuck you.

What a brilliant retort - one generally expects such wit only from those compelled by words on a wall....

Somehow I know the religious would be more than happy to start murdering atheists again. Can't imagine where I would get that idea, considering it's never happened before.

Shall we examine how many Atheists have been murdered by Christians versus the opposite.

Mao slaughtered 4 million Christians. The Inquisition accounts for about 2,000 victims - a few of them might have actually been Atheists. You only need 3,998,000 more to account for Mao alone. Then we can talk about Stalin, Ho, Pol Pot.......

You really need a better argument to parrot.

Fallacy of Equivocation, you must support that it was their atheism that was the cause of their murder.

I can cite direct evidence that the murder of atheists by the religious is CAUSED BY THEIR RELIGION DIRECTLY.

Can you?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

They do that all the time. My son's high school biology teacher railed on how stupid anyone believing in god was all the time.

Hearsay, antidotal, unsubstantiated, and irrelevant.

A mural doesn't compel any act on the part of a student, it is a passive display. To ban such is censorship.

The Constitution and its case law disagree with you, as you exhibit your ignorance.

I imagine that a crucifix is a jar of urine or a picture of the virgin Mary covered in shit is just fine with you for display at public schools.

No, not if it doesn’t comport with relevant case law.

The USA is 17th in math and science among nations - good thing we put our effort towards persecuting Christians, good use of resources....

Non sequitur.

You fucking atheists are nearly as bad as the Muslims with your dogma and intolerance of any belief save your stupid religion. Yeah, you don't cut people's heads off on Al Jazeera, I'll grant you that.

But somehow, I get the nagging feeling that if you thought you could get away with it, PBS would be non-stop beheadings.

Ignorance and hate rather than facts and reasoning, typical of many on the right.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You really need a better argument to parrot.

Parrot?

Son, you keep tossing out your mindless bigotry, and I keep eviscerating you.

Fallacy of Equivocation, you must support that it was their atheism that was the cause of their murder.

Mao directly stated it was - good enough for me.

I can cite direct evidence that the murder of atheists by the religious is CAUSED BY THEIR RELIGION DIRECTLY.

Can you?

Go for it. See if you can break 10,000. (we both know you can't - like all bigots, your prejudices have no basis in fact.)

You're a bigot and a moron.

The Greatest Killer

Atheism is a religion of the stupid.

True statement.