An Honest Discussion of White Privilege, by Two White Guys

[squeeze berry]

That's the crux of the matter that too many whites don't and/or can't seem to comprehend. They keep coming back to false equivalencies, like whining about Affirmative Action.

*SMH*

So based on your understanding, the hundreds of years of headstart of "white affirmative action" and MASSIVE advantages have NO effect today? You're also suggesting that slavery and Jim Crow laws were basically ended and done away with 50 years ago that has NO EFFECT on anyone whatsoever today?

Is that it?

Their ancestors wanted their own children to have a good life and they worked to make it happen. That's what family is for. Kids raised in good homes grow up to be successful adults.

What are you doing to help your kids have a good life?

You didnt address the question. Whites had a head start. They legally and willfully held Black people back from building legacies in the area of politics, academics, economics, land ownership, etc. Since Blacks were held back whites own most of the opportunities. Thats white privilege and the point of the OP.

how have you been held back?

 

[Asclepias]

Their ancestors wanted their own children to have a good life and they worked to make it happen. That's what family is for. Kids raised in good homes grow up to be successful adults.

What are you doing to help your kids have a good life?

You didnt address the question. Whites had a head start. They legally and willfully held Black people back from building legacies in the area of politics, academics, economics, land ownership, etc. Since Blacks were held back whites own most of the opportunities. Thats white privilege and the point of the OP.

how have you been held back?

What does that have to do with the OP?

 

[protectionist]

These two guys get it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etg0ghv3Ieg

Particularly the guest, who helped the host, David Pakman, to articulate the situation more effectively.

To those who wish to respond, please watch the video first, it's about 8 minutes and change long.

As a White person, you're not going to be presumed incompetent or anything else when applying for a job. You're going to be presumed INELIGIBLE by virtue of not being of a minority race, and thereby eligible for affirmative action. As a White person, you're not even going to see the interviewer, as your application is destroyed the minute your AA questionnaire reveals you are White (or you don't fill it out).
Essentially, the only "privilege" that Whites have is to be discriminated against, particularly by govt employers. Try to find a white doctor or nurse in a VA hospital. Not many there.

This discussion between these 2 guys is the biggest pile of crap I've ever heard. I don't believe for a second that blacks are more unemployed than Whites, or any other minority race. All the govt offices I've been to lately have nothing but minorities working in them. As for data, it's BS. I did my own study not too long ago. I applied for about 50 jobs with state, county and city agencies in 2010 and 2011. I did not fill out any of their AA questionnaires. I never even heard back from them. Then I retired in 2012, and just for the hell of it, I applied again to about 15 govt jobs, this time checking Hispanic on the AA questionnaire. I received 10 replies, and calls for interviews.

 

[Andylusion]

You didnt address the question. Whites had a head start. They legally and willfully held Black people back from building legacies in the area of politics, academics, economics, land ownership, etc. Since Blacks were held back whites own most of the opportunities. Thats white privilege and the point of the OP.

Have you read the story of Clarence Thomas? His father, worked his butt off. They were successful, DESPITE the obsticles. And because of that, Clarence Thomas was successful, DESPITE the obstacles.

We held back Asians too. Want to know why Asians have a higher standard of living, better educated, better incomes than white people? It's because they didn't sit around b!tching about how unfair life is. It's because they got off their butt and worked for a living.

There is no National Association for the Advancement of Asian People. Instead of trying to advance themselves with political power, they advanced themselves through hard work, over coming obstacles, and succeeding in life.

Clarence Thomas father did nothing but what countless Black fathers did. I'm successful despite the obstacles. Nothing a white person can put in my way that I cant overcome. The point of the OP is to discuss why white people seem to think that more obstacles dont exist for Blacks. Did you forget the point of the OP?

I need to see some documentation on how Asians were held back. I dont recall them being enslaved, stripped of their language, religion, and history. If Asians went through the same or worse as Black people in this country then you would have a point. The problem is they didnt so you dont have a point.

There is no national association for the advancement of Black People either. Asians are included in the NAACP. Must be one of the facts that escape white peoples memory. NAACP is not just for Black people. It is for all people of color. You must be a fool if you think Asians didnt advance themselves through politics as well as other areas. They just were not on the bottom of the social ladder.

Are you saying there was not racism against Asians now? Are we living in a myth that magically, only black people, were the only people group on the planet that experienced racism?

Please. Maybe you forget how we rounded up all the Asians, during WW2, and thousands died in the process?

They did? Ok. You show me where there are Pro-Asian laws, promoting Asians?

 

[Unkotare]

Are you saying there was not racism against Asians now? Are we living in a myth that magically, only black people, were the only people group on the planet that experienced racism?

Ignorant racists like him just don't want to know. Recall how Chinese immigrants were treated while building the transcontinental railroad, or the Chinese Exclusion Act among many officially sanctioned acts of blatant racism, segregation, and oppression.

 

[Andylusion]

Are you saying there was not racism against Asians now? Are we living in a myth that magically, only black people, were the only people group on the planet that experienced racism?

Ignorant racists like him just don't want to know. Recall how Chinese immigrants were treated while building the transcontinental railroad, or the Chinese Exclusion Act among many officially sanctioned acts of blatant racism, segregation, and oppression.

Absolutely! For some stupid reason, liberals, and especially black bigots, want to pretend that they, and they alone were the only people on the entire planet to ever be enslaved. That only them, have any claim to being wronged. All delusions.

Asians were wronged like many others. They overcame, let go of the past, and worked their butts off. That's why they have higher standards of living, than any other minority in American, except perhaps Jews.

 

[holston]

These two guys get it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etg0ghv3Ieg

Particularly the guest, who helped the host, David Pakman, to articulate the situation more effectively.

To those who wish to respond, please watch the video first, it's about 8 minutes and change long.

Dave Pakman is a Jewish Supremacist who believes that only Jews should have privileges.

The dork he is interviewing is either a "Jew" or a self hating gentile, in other words, a conceited prick.

Since these pricks are both "white", I agree with them that THEIR privileges should be removed.
To begin with, they should not have the privilege to post their atavistic hatred of White Anglo Saxon Culture on the internet and should be subjected to the type of censorship in expressing their thinly veiled contempt in the same way that Jewgle and JewTube are silencing all critics of Jewish Supremacism.

With creeps like these around, who needs ipecac?

 

[ScienceRocks]

If blacks don't like that many whites are successful...Well, they're welcome to go back to africa and sick a fucking tribal cock.

 

[holston]

If blacks don't like that many whites are successful...Well, they're welcome to go back to africa and sick a fucking tribal cock.

What a positively Jewish thing to say.

 

[Andylusion]

If blacks don't like that many whites are successful...Well, they're welcome to go back to africa and sick a fucking tribal cock.

What a positively Jewish thing to say.

Yeah I don't like that either. Rather pathetic way of talking to people.

But I do grasp his point though.... We have the highest standard of living in the world. The poorest people in our country, have a higher standard of living, the some of the middle class around the world.

How anyone in America can complain about their living standard here, is absolutely ridiculous. And that's not a race thing either. White people who complain are absolutely fruit bats.

$32K a year, makes you the top 1% of wage earners in the world. A married man and woman, working at Wendy's for minimum wage, is just at, or in, the richest 1% in the world.

Spoiled brats need to SHUT UP. You have it so good in this country, just shut your mouth, and be happy with how great your lives are.

 

[holston]

Ashkenazi/White Jewish Privilege Checklist | Garret & Studio

 

[holston]

Checking Your Jewish Privilege ? Forward.com

Fortunate Son: Tal Fortgang is the descendant of Holocaust survivors, but also a day school graduate from a rich suburb.

This fellow needs to be commended for knowing how to leave the past behind.

His youthful appearance is astonishing given the number of decades since he "survived" the holocaust.

His recovery from the brutalities of life in a concentration camp are remarkable.

How, then, can we live as Jews in modern America with an honest admission that we are both Samson and the nebbish, the mighty and the vulnerable, the comfortable offspring of a hated, hunted people? The answer turned up in the Torah portion Behar, which was read last Shabbat.

In the text, the ancient Israelites are commanded to practice a sabbatical from farming every seventh year and a jubilee year with every seventh sabbatical. One major purpose of the shmita, as it’s known, is to permit the poor to harvest food from the untended fields. Another passage of the portion insists that any Jew who has been forced by poverty to mortgage his land not be expelled from it.

Admittedly, these admonitions fall under a category that we today would call “inreach” — Jews helping fellow Jews.

This is not to be confused with gentile nepotism or "good ol' boys clubs" or cronyism. One describes Jewish behavior and the other describes gentile behavior. Therefore one is good and the other is bad. One deserves societal sanction, protection under the law, while the other should be social condemned and subject to "quotas", Affirmative Action programs, and otherwise outlawed.

This is especially true in Israel since Jews are an endangered species altogether apart from other branches of the human race and should be treated as such.

The injunction, however, could not be clearer, and it is all about checking your privilege. To check something is to assess it, to reckon its presence and value. The text does not tell us there is anything wrong with possessing privilege, in the ancient form of land and crops. Rather, it tells us that the purpose of such privilege: to share it in a spirit of generosity and humility.

Samuel G. Freedman, a frequent contributor the Forward, is the author of books including “Jew vs. Jew.” This essay is based on a d’var Torah he delivered at Kehilat Rayim Ahuvim.

Of course there is nothing wrong with possessing privilege IF you are a Jew.

It is only wrong when you are a White Anglo Saxon Protestant MALE.

Anyone who says otherwise is obviously an anti-semite and a racist.

 

[Oldstyle]

These two guys get it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etg0ghv3Ieg

Particularly the guest, who helped the host, David Pakman, to articulate the situation more effectively.

To those who wish to respond, please watch the video first, it's about 8 minutes and change long.

I watched the video, Marc and here's my problem with the whole discussion. Every minority group that has come to the US finds itself unfairly treated by those who preceded them. Italians, Irish, Chinese, Jews, Muslims, Hispanics...yet THOSE groups have worked together to better themselves DESPITE the limitations that were placed upon them. Did blacks have a tougher road to assimilate themselves? Without question. But here's where I take issue with the concept that whites have been "unfair" to blacks. In practice those that have material goods have NEVER given them willingly to those that do not! You had immigrants working three jobs to send their kids to school so that THEY could have more opportunities than their parents had! The Boston Brahmins didn't suddenly decide that the Irish needed a helping hand and give them scholarships to Ivy League schools. The powers that be in San Francisco didn't suddenly decide that it was improper that the Chinese immigrants got far less money for far harder work. I'm sorry but that didn't HAPPEN!

Some doors need to be kicked down by the collective struggle of a group of people. It's not easy...it's not "fair"...but it is reality. The thing that has held blacks back far more than unfair treatment by whites is terrible treatment of other blacks by blacks. Black on black crime. Ebonics. A total lack of respect for the value of education. Corruption by elected leaders. I'm not a fan of Nation of Islam but I will give them credit for understanding that the ONLY way for blacks to succeed in America is for them to stop preying on other blacks and start working together to make things better. I look at the work that Magic Johnson has done to bring businesses to predominantly black neighborhoods and see a man who "gets it". I see the two men in that video who you think "get it" and what I'm seeing are two men that don't understand human nature at all.

 

[holston]

http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/jewish_privilege/

This is what passes for journalism - an article about a study does not name it.

I advise against holding your breath waiting for Dr. Hartmann to produce a similar study laced with terms like “Jewish privilege” (the relevant Jewish privilege here is immunity from queries as to why Jews get to scribble and yak about “white privilege” and otherwise go about defining whiteness while the converse would get us thrown in the intellectual gulag).

Doug Hartmann » The Society Pages

When I was just getting started in sociology, I used to describe my research and writing (most of which you can find copies of or links to below) as contributing to two main areas—race and ethnicity, and the sociology of culture—and that the two came together mainly in my work on race and sport in the United States (such as my book on the 1968 African American Olympic protests).

On the race front—facilitated by with my collaborations on the American Mosaic Project—I’ve moved from big level, theoretical work on racial and ethnicity identities and boundaries to more empirical studies of racial identities and boundaries in the United States, focusing especially on topics related to whiteness, multiculturalism, and immigration.

I’ve also broadened out a bit over the past few years into other areas and topic research projects, including the transitions to adulthood, religious belief and practice (or the lack thereof—thinking here of the paper Joe Gerteis, Penny Edgall and I did on atheists), as well as immigration and the incorporation of second and third generation immigrants into American society.

The assumption behind prior scholarship and diversity training initiatives was that whites overlooked their own race.

"It's sort of like having an accent," said the study's co-author, University of Minnesota associate professor Doug Hartmann. "For some white Americans, racial identity is so fixed, so taken for granted, that 'race' becomes something other people have."

Kosher Pigs And Jewish Privilege | The Jewish Week

So, while I was gallivanting about Ann Arbor and Pittsburgh (with a very brief, rainy pit stop in Oberlin, Ohio), my intermarried pals Paul Golin and Laurel Snyder were busily advancing The Cause.

What is The Cause, you ask? Why nothing less than promoting and condoning intermarriage in hopes of swelling our movement’s growing ranks. We are hoping to encourage as many Jews as possible to consider marrying gentiles, and we will be arming Jewish parents whose children want to in-marry with guides and iPhone apps full of talking points to persuade them otherwise. Just kidding, folks!

But seriously, Paul and Laurel have been out there promoting inclusiveness in Jewish life. Paul’s “Redefining Who Is A Jew” on the Huffington Post makes some very good points, especially its coining of the term “Born-Jewish Privilege” (which really, if I had been editing it, would have appeared in the lead, not buried in the middle of the essay). The “privilege” term (as in “white privilege” and “class privilege&#8221 brings back disturbing college memories of excessively self-righteous, politically correct classmates competing with each other to prove how enlightened, un-racist and/or oppressed they were, but is nonetheless useful here. As Paul says:

It is a Born-Jewish Privilege to be able to ask someone, immediately upon learning that he or she is a convert, "You mean you actually chose to become Jewish?" -- even as an attempted joke. And it is a Born-Jewish Privilege to then turn around (at perhaps the very same event!) and ask the non-Jewish spouse of a Jew, "Do you plan to convert?"

It is a Born-Jewish Privilege to not do a single thing Jewish all year -- not attend synagogue, not observe Shabbat, not donate to Jewish causes -- yet feel completely 100-percent Jewish while at the same time questioning the authenticity of an intermarried household where the non-Jewish parent is doing all of those things in order to instill a Jewish identity in his or her child.

Meanwhile, Laurel recently published and is busily promoting her children’s book “Baxter: The Pig Who Wanted to Be Kosher,” which I am still waiting to get my grubby hands on.

According to the review/summary from School Library Journal, “Baxter,” published by Tricycle Press (apparently no Jewish publisher would take it, for fear of offending the anti-pig factions) is about a pig desperate to experience a Shabbat dinner:

He wants to see for himself how “the candles gleam and glow and dance while our sweetest voices lift in song.” When he learns that pork is a forbidden food according to Jewish law, he stuffs his face with kosher pickles and raisin challah, hoping to become kosher. He even tries, unsuccessfully, to become a cow. Finally, an encounter with a kind rabbi sets him straight. She explains that while he's not kosher to eat, never will be, and really wouldn't want to be, everyone is welcome at Shabbat dinner. Baxter enjoys a marvelous evening with the rabbi, pigging out on kugel, a Jewish casserole dish, and realizing that it is much better to be a guest than an item on the menu.

I didn’t write Baxter to be an intermarriage book. The idea simply popped into my head one day — a kosher pig! It seemed like a silly idea. A fun idea. I didn’t think I could sell it. I was really surprised when I did.

So there you have it. Even A PIG can attend a Shabbat dinner, even if he really isn't Kosher.

All the PIGS out there are sure to find this message from out Jewish "friends" heartwarming.

 

[Andylusion]

Checking Your Jewish Privilege ? Forward.com

Fortunate Son: Tal Fortgang is the descendant of Holocaust survivors, but also a day school graduate from a rich suburb.

This fellow needs to be commended for knowing how to leave the past behind.

His youthful appearance is astonishing given the number of decades since he "survived" the holocaust.

His recovery from the brutalities of life in a concentration camp are remarkable.

How, then, can we live as Jews in modern America with an honest admission that we are both Samson and the nebbish, the mighty and the vulnerable, the comfortable offspring of a hated, hunted people? The answer turned up in the Torah portion Behar, which was read last Shabbat.

In the text, the ancient Israelites are commanded to practice a sabbatical from farming every seventh year and a jubilee year with every seventh sabbatical. One major purpose of the shmita, as it’s known, is to permit the poor to harvest food from the untended fields. Another passage of the portion insists that any Jew who has been forced by poverty to mortgage his land not be expelled from it.

Admittedly, these admonitions fall under a category that we today would call “inreach” — Jews helping fellow Jews.

This is not to be confused with gentile nepotism or "good ol' boys clubs" or cronyism. One describes Jewish behavior and the other describes gentile behavior. Therefore one is good and the other is bad. One deserves societal sanction, protection under the law, while the other should be social condemned and subject to "quotas", Affirmative Action programs, and otherwise outlawed.

This is especially true in Israel since Jews are an endangered species altogether apart from other branches of the human race and should be treated as such.

Maybe if the African American community did this, instead of murdering and stealing from each other, they would do equally well.

 

[holston]

Unprecedented: master?s thesis on Jewish white privilege and Israel attacked in Canadian legislature | MuzzleWatch
Unprecedented: master’s thesis on Jewish white privilege and Israel attacked in Canadian legislature -

The Canadian National Post reports:

It has provoked intense debate online, in academia and even the political realm. Progressive Conservative MPP Steve Clark raised it in the legislature Tuesday in response to sharp criticism in the Jewish community, calling it “shockingly anti-Semitic.” Citizenship and immigration minister Eric Hoskins likewise condemned the thesis in the legislature saying he was “greatly disturbed and, in fact, disgusted,” when he read media coverage about it.

Michiel Horn, a York University history professor and author of Academic Freedom in Canada: A History: “I know not of a single case where a master’s or a phD paper has been subject of discussion in the legislature of any province in Canada,” he said.

You can read Jenny Peto’s thesis yourself by downloading it here. Her abstract states:

This paper focuses on issues of Jewish identity, whiteness and victimhood within hegemonic Holocaust education. I argue that today, Jewish people of European descent enjoy white privilege and are among the most socio-economically advantaged groups in the West. Despite this privilege, the organized Jewish community makes claims about Jewish victimhood that are widely accepted within that community and within popular discourse in the West. I propose that these claims to victimhood are no longer based in a reality of oppression, but continue to be propagated because a victimized Jewish identity can produce certain effects that are beneficial to the organized Jewish community and the Israeli nation-state. I focus on two related Holocaust education projects – the March of the Living and the March of Remembrance and Hope – to show how Jewish victimhood is instrumentalized in ways that obscure Jewish privilege, deny Jewish racism and promote the interests of the Israeli nation-state.

- See more at: Unprecedented: master?s thesis on Jewish white privilege and Israel attacked in Canadian legislature | MuzzleWatch

 

[holston]

Owning Our Jewish Privilege | Jewish Women's Archive

A new meme blog is taking off. "Privilege Denying Dude" represents the type of person who denies that they have privilege, usually the privilege that comes with being white, male, heterosexual, cisgendered (not transgendered), and American. It identifies the sorts of phrases and ideas that are used to deny this kind of privilege, like the idea that homeless people are lazy.

Who is "Privilege Denying Dude?" He is fictional, of course, but his bio reads:

"Look, I wasn't around when all that bad stuff happened. All I know is I got to where I am solely by hard work. Discrimination? I'm not going to listen to this. You obviously can't hear me: my reality is the only reality."

The meme uses a stock image photo of "your average young, white guy" and uses an online image editor to allow people to write captions on the photo and submit them to the blog.

Denying our own privilege, as we can see from "Privilege Denying Dude," will only serve to prevent us from relating to others, communicating with others, and being effective in our social justice activism.

Owning Our Jewish Privilege
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November 17, 2010
by Leah Berkenwald

So says the "Jewiss with Attitude".

 

[holston]

http://www.tribefest.org/program/details/unpacking-the-jewish-privilege-backpack

 

[holston]

Let's hear from some more distinctly "anti-racist" and positively Jewish social critics.

http://cifwatch.com/2010/11/15/on-jewish-privilege-and-the-unlikely-midwife-to-such-a-hideous-idea/

While McIntosh’s theories on racism in America are insidious in of themselves, my broader concern was the effect this construct could have on attitudes towards Jews. It isn’t difficult to understand where such an ideology can lead. Jews are erroneously, but typically, viewed as “white” in Western society. (The fact that that Mizrahi/Sephardic Jews consist of about half of all Israeli Jews, for instance, is typically unknown or ignored.)

It isn’t a long road from white privilege to Jewish privilege - especially in the context of the increasing acceptance, within certain progressive circles, that Jews (in the U.S., and the West) are too powerful and have a corrosive effect on the body politic. Such anti-Semitic invectives are peddled by mainstream progressive bloggers with extremely large audiences such as Glenn Greenwald and Andrew Sullivan. The recent CST Report on anti-Semitic discourse noted (as CiF Watch has been consistently exposing) that the Guardian, in particular, continues to portray American foreign policy and the media as being dominated by the Jewish lobby.

Now I see. It is "Anti-Semitic" to speak of Jewish privilege.

Of course their is nothing 'anti-white gentilic" about speaking of "white" privilege.
We just don't want to venture to closely to the definition of "white" there inasmuch as JEWS apply the term to themselves.


According to THIS "Jew", calling Jews white is incorrect.

And THAT hasn't stopped on-line Jews from arguing that they are any time some "anti-semite" brings up the racial aspect of Judaism.
It's only when "white" is used in the context of "racism" and "privilege" that Jews are loathe to claim it as their own identity, consensus forms not withstanding.

Jews have the amazing property of being able to be either white, non-white, or both, depending on the situation.
This ability is not unlike that of a chameleon which is able to change it's appearance according to the background it finds itself in.

 

[Unkotare]

Are you saying there was not racism against Asians now? Are we living in a myth that magically, only black people, were the only people group on the planet that experienced racism?

Ignorant racists like him just don't want to know. Recall how Chinese immigrants were treated while building the transcontinental railroad, or the Chinese Exclusion Act among many officially sanctioned acts of blatant racism, segregation, and oppression.

Absolutely! For some stupid reason, liberals, and especially black bigots, want to pretend that they, and they alone were the only people on the entire planet to ever be enslaved. That only them, have any claim to being wronged. All delusions.

One of the most disappointing public exhibitions of racism I ever saw came from a middle-aged black woman on a public train who actually directed her young son to run up to an elderly Chinese woman and mock her to her face. It was disturbing to just about everyone on the train (a very diverse group of riders at that). This woman actually told her son - couldn't have been more than 5 or 6 years old - to go up to this elderly lady who was minding her own business, pull back the corners of his eyes, jut out his upper teeth, and dance around chanting "ching-chong, ching chong!" right in front of her, which he did. The old woman seemed to have no idea what was going on and why this child was acting so strangely. It turns out she was very fresh off the boat and not yet savvy to the ways in which some people can be horrible to others in her new cultural context. Everyone on the train sort of paused in shocked disbelief at this entire event. It took a good few seconds for it to sink in that this woman had actually pushed her child over to the elderly lady to do this. The train pretty much emptied at the next stop. Many of the riders got off early just out of discomfort, it seemed. The woman and her victim/child got off as well. After the initial shock of disbelief passed, I felt deeply disappointed that this woman - clearly of limited means and education - would have done this to the elderly lady, her child, and herself, obviously without thinking or realizing what she was really doing. As a black woman in America of what seemed to be her situation, I can only suppose that she had experienced a great deal of racism directed against her in her own life. To think of the many ways in which she was exacerbating a disease that was likely to afflict her as much as anyone was saddening. To see an elderly woman disrespected like that for no reason was infuriating. To see the virtual guarantee, due to her actions, that another generation would transmit this disease was disheartening.