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dear, once you tamper with the free market there is no end. Do you understand? Better to ship 20 million illegals home and stop forcing our corporations to leave the country?Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source
Well, that's easy to fix. We went over how a few posts back. But as you admitted then, you're not really worried about Walmart profiting from the welfare state. What you're after is state control of the economy. We need government to tell us what things are really worth because "we're not doing it right".That is a problem with corporate greed
of course under capitalism corps are not allowed to be greedy. They must offer the best products and jobs in the world or go bankrupt.
Isn't learning fun?
Walmart isn't turning a profit on the best products and services. They are turning a profit on Chinese slave labor, and a socialized domestic workforce.
1) Why would someone working minimum wage think they can afford to live in NYC?On this page, we will itemize a sample budget for a single person in order to analyze what a fair standard would be for a minimum-wage worker. It is our position that a person working eight hours a day, five days a week, at any job, should be able to support themselves to a minimum basic standard of living. This practical wage is necessary in order to elevate the class of working poor to contributing members of society. Working for anything less than what is needed to subsist on independently, is nothing short of slavery.
All figures are based on national averages, for a Federal standard.
RENT ------------------------------$1000
BASIC UTILITIES --------------$200
ADVANCED UTILITIES ------$150
FOOD ------------------------------$300
NON-FOOD GROCERY -----$50
CLOTHING -----------------------$75
TRANSPORTATION ----------$500
HEALTHCARE -----------------$350
MISCELLANEOUS -----------$400
------------------------------------------------------
Average Basic Monthly Expenses $3,025
A full-time job at 40 hours per week is 173.2 hours per month calculating 4.33 weeks in each month. To find a reasonable minimum wage, we divide the average basic monthly expenses figure, by the number of hours worked. For the average American worker to support themselves without government assistance or by borrowing beyond their means, that worker must earn...
$17.47 per hour
Of course, that figure must be after all taxes and contributions are taken, or that anyone earning that amount must be exempt from all such garnishments and liability. A person who cannot even afford to pay their own way, cannot afford to pay taxes. Forcing them to pay taxes that will jeopardize their basic standard of living, is unsound economics and in the long run will only force other taxpayers to subsidize those workers, in turn jeopardizing their own living standard, in a perpetual cycle that we see happening today as more workers descend into deep poverty.
If $17.47 per hour seems unreasonable to you, or just downright impossible, consider a few more facts. There was a time when a grocery clerk, or a department store salesperson could actually support themselves on what they earned. That is not so today.
Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker. -Source
Based on consumption growth since 1968, the minimum wage today would have to be $25.05 to represent the same share of the country's total consumption. Based on national income growth, the minimum wage should be $22.08. Based on personal income growth, it should be $21.16. -Source
After adjusting for inflation, minimum wage workers today are paid about 26 percent less than they were in 1974.
At the top 1 percent of the American income distribution, average incomes rose 194 percent between 1974 and 2011. Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source
Here is a detailed description of how we arrived at our sample budget figures:
Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America
RENT ------------------------------$0 one person's share of a used tent, or can live with parents or friends for free
BASIC UTILITIES --------------$0 see above
ADVANCED UTILITIES ------$0 see above
FOOD ------------------------------$100 learn to fish and buy 50lb bags of rice & beans
NON-FOOD GROCERY -----$2 for a box of baking soda
CLOTHING -----------------------$0 clothing is free for the poor if you need a link ask
TRANSPORTATION ----------$0 borrow a bike
HEALTHCARE -----------------$0 see bike
MISCELLANEOUS -----------$100
------------------------------------------------------
Average Basic Monthly Expenses $202
Minimum wage 2 bucks.
Certainly not a realistic or practical example at all. Go ahead and try pitching a tent in Central Park. You need to pay for a permit to go fishing. A bicycle will not help your medical situation if you break a leg or wind up with hypothermia. Borrowing and getting free stuff, that's socialism bud.
dear, once you tamper with the free market there is no end. Do you understand? Better to ship 20 million illegals home and stop forcing our corporations to leave the country?Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source
Get it??
Well, that's easy to fix. We went over how a few posts back. But as you admitted then, you're not really worried about Walmart profiting from the welfare state. What you're after is state control of the economy. We need government to tell us what things are really worth because "we're not doing it right".
1) Why would someone working minimum wage think they can afford to live in NYC?
2) Break a leg? <straw man alert>
3) WRONG borrowing stuff is not socialism. Neither is charity. Have you been this retarded your whole life? ^ retard thinks handme downs is socialism. rolls eyes...
There is a "plethora" of free clothes & bikes available at charities. I was talking about clothes budget, you got that right? Borrowing or receiving an old bike is not socialism, ya retard.1) Why would someone working minimum wage think they can afford to live in NYC?
Are you telling my that there are no min wage workers in NYC, and that the city does not need them?
2) Break a leg? <straw man alert>
Breaking a leg or suffering any other illness or injury is a legitimate medical concern. Riding a bicycle is the strawman.
3) WRONG borrowing stuff is not socialism. Neither is charity. Have you been this retarded your whole life? ^ retard thinks handme downs is socialism. rolls eyes...
If charity and friends were provided enough goods and services for those in need, we wouldn't have welfare. But I can also tell you that I volunteer at a food pantry, where donations are so meager we have cut meals to once per day, and cut monthly allotment to 3 days per month. And that is WITH government subsidies that have also been slashed recently.
Depending on handouts is not a solution to the corporate exploitation of socialized labor.
There is a "plethora" of free clothes & bikes available at charities. I was talking about clothes budget, you got that right? Borrowing or receiving an old bike is not socialism, ya retard.1) Why would someone working minimum wage think they can afford to live in NYC?
Are you telling my that there are no min wage workers in NYC, and that the city does not need them?
2) Break a leg? <straw man alert>
Breaking a leg or suffering any other illness or injury is a legitimate medical concern. Riding a bicycle is the strawman.
3) WRONG borrowing stuff is not socialism. Neither is charity. Have you been this retarded your whole life? ^ retard thinks handme downs is socialism. rolls eyes...
If charity and friends were provided enough goods and services for those in need, we wouldn't have welfare. But I can also tell you that I volunteer at a food pantry, where donations are so meager we have cut meals to once per day, and cut monthly allotment to 3 days per month. And that is WITH government subsidies that have also been slashed recently.
Depending on handouts is not a solution to the corporate exploitation of socialized labor.
I put a budget in for food. That you can't read or fish isn't my fault.
WRT NYC, it's too expensive to live there on minimum wage... I thought that was obvious. Your rent money will go much further out side the city. Duh!
Your "broken leg" concern is a straw man.. maybe you need to look up straw man argument. You don't seem to understand the concept. You asked for minimum wage budget then ran off talking about broken legs yelling and screaming with your head cut off that everyone needs to pay hundreds of dollars a month in case they break their leg.... when GUESS WHAT BILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIVE JUST FINE WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE.
This is quite a duel!
^ never heard of a free clinic. WOW Hey, your shoes are on backwards.There is a "plethora" of free clothes & bikes available at charities. I was talking about clothes budget, you got that right? Borrowing or receiving an old bike is not socialism, ya retard.1) Why would someone working minimum wage think they can afford to live in NYC?
Are you telling my that there are no min wage workers in NYC, and that the city does not need them?
2) Break a leg? <straw man alert>
Breaking a leg or suffering any other illness or injury is a legitimate medical concern. Riding a bicycle is the strawman.
3) WRONG borrowing stuff is not socialism. Neither is charity. Have you been this retarded your whole life? ^ retard thinks handme downs is socialism. rolls eyes...
If charity and friends were provided enough goods and services for those in need, we wouldn't have welfare. But I can also tell you that I volunteer at a food pantry, where donations are so meager we have cut meals to once per day, and cut monthly allotment to 3 days per month. And that is WITH government subsidies that have also been slashed recently.
Depending on handouts is not a solution to the corporate exploitation of socialized labor.
I put a budget in for food. That you can't read or fish isn't my fault.
WRT NYC, it's too expensive to live there on minimum wage... I thought that was obvious. Your rent money will go much further out side the city. Duh!
Your "broken leg" concern is a straw man.. maybe you need to look up straw man argument. You don't seem to understand the concept. You asked for minimum wage budget then ran off talking about broken legs yelling and screaming with your head cut off that everyone needs to pay hundreds of dollars a month in case they break their leg.... when GUESS WHAT BILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIVE JUST FINE WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE.
And anyone who winds up injured or in need of serious healthcare without insurance, winds up ripping off the taxpayer for it, because they have no choice and didn't have money put aside for that eventuality. Maybe not insurance, but at least some money to put aside to pay for it.
Fishing is not a practical solution to national hunger and food insecurity. Like I said, one simple reason is that you need a license to fish.
I agree that it is "too expensive" to live in NYC, or just about anywhere else for that matter, to get by on mimum wage. That doesn't change the fact that many people are forced to do the best they can, and wind up working min wage, getting welfare, and living in subsidized housing. If everyone suddenly up and moved out west, there would not be enough jobs to sustain them and cost of living would go through the roof. Moving NYC to some city out west is not a solution to anything. Nor is moving to just outside of the city, to the area where I live, where cost of living is not really much cheaper at all, there are fewer jobs, and less services.
Then shovel snow ya cry baby.Oh, clothes and bike. Relying on handouts is not a solution to anything either. There is no reason why a person who works every day should have to turn to handouts from the government or anyone else in order to be clothed, or to secure reliable transportation to their job. A bicycle here in the winter is a totally absurd solution.
Silliness. The only peeps earning bottom dollar are those whose education, knowledge, experience and productivity warrant it. We aren't paid "an actual living wage" in America but rather what the market will bear. There will always be some at the bottom and they are there for obvious reasons. The push to drastically increase their wage is a socialist/unionist thing:
"The Center for Union Facts analyzed collective-bargaining agreements obtained from the Department of Labor’s Office of Labor-Management Standards. The data indicate that a number of unions in the service, retail and hospitality industries peg their base-line wages to the minimum wage. . . . The two most popular formulas were setting baseline union wages as a percentage above the state or federal minimum wage or mandating a flat wage premium above the minimum wage."
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324048904578318541000422454
Making taxpayer pay the labor costs for private industry, THAT is socialism my friend. Either YOU can pay to feed and shelter my workers, or you can demand that I pay my workers enough to afford those basics.
The market will "bear" a living wage, jsut as it did in the past, when our economy was actually in good shape. Our economy is in the crapper today because no one has any money to spend. No one has any money to spend because wages have been artificially depressed instead of keeping pace with things like productivity. The average American worker is 400% more productive than in 1950, but is not getting anywhere near that much of the pie.
Your opinion of low wage workers is rather ignorant I might add. Plenty of educated people working low wage jobs. Those workers also tend to be the most productive, not the least. Experience makes little difference in today's job marketplace and can even be seen as a liability. Knowledge? You might be surprised how much specialized job knowledge goes into a "simple" job like fast food. Everything from customer service kills, to precise time management, to how to break down a shake machine, to public health codes.
No, you're not. No matter how you try to spin this you are promoting the use of gov't power to take from some (biz) and give to others and you don't seem to care how many jobs are lost by your actions. Min wage isn't supposed to be a living wage but rather an entry level wage and the federal gov't has no biz defining it.
Using government power to tell private business to pay their own bills is hardly the thievery you are trying to portray. Yes, money SHOULD be taken from private business and given to others, their workers. So that we don't have to buy their groceries.
And yes, min wage certainly is supposed to be a living wage. The notion of "entry-level" is what is false here. I don't care what you do for a living, if it is your first day or last day on the job. You should be paid enough to buy your own groceries without taxpayer assistance.
"The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees." -Cornell University Law School, Legal Information Institute
You're a union and government tool. that's all
how many businesses do you have and how many people do you have working for you?
Im retired for the most part. But I never had any union workers working for me. I operated small businesses. Gas stations, movie theaters, restaurants. Less than a thousand workers overall.
But I am not a government tool. I am trying to take government OUT of private industry. I would much rather see the simple min wage law applied effectively, rather than letting private industry exploit a socialized labor pool.
No, you're not. No matter how you try to spin this you are promoting the use of gov't power to take from some (biz) and give to others and you don't seem to care how many jobs are lost by your actions. Min wage isn't supposed to be a living wage but rather an entry level wage and the federal gov't has no biz defining it.
Using government power to tell private business to pay their own bills is hardly the thievery you are trying to portray. Yes, money SHOULD be taken from private business and given to others, their workers. So that we don't have to buy their groceries.
And yes, min wage certainly is supposed to be a living wage. The notion of "entry-level" is what is false here. I don't care what you do for a living, if it is your first day or last day on the job. You should be paid enough to buy your own groceries without taxpayer assistance.
"The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees." -Cornell University Law School, Legal Information Institute
Groceries can be bought without taxpayer assistance by min wage earners and given the wide swings in the cost of living by state, the federal gov't has no biz setting a national standard. This battle is all about throwing the unions a bone. The groceries argument is strictly a smokescreen.
State's have a right to set their own min wage, and some do outside of Federal requirements. But the Federal govt has a constitutional right to regulate interstate trade.
People who are making min wage get foodstamps.
Not all peeps who make min wage get food stamps and people who are jobless get food stamps AND welfare. If you have no marketable skills you have to start somewhere.
The starting point should not be welfare. Anyone who is getting up and going to work everyday should not be relying on foodstamps in order to get by. WalMart is the biggest employer of workers on public assistance. That is a substandard starting point that is a drain on our economy, not beneficial.
Groceries can be bought without taxpayer assistance by min wage earners and given the wide swings in the cost of living by state, the federal gov't has no biz setting a national standard. This battle is all about throwing the unions a bone. The groceries argument is strictly a smokescreen.
State's have a right to set their own min wage, and some do outside of Federal requirements. But the Federal govt has a constitutional right to regulate interstate trade.
People who are making min wage get foodstamps.
Not all peeps who make min wage get food stamps and people who are jobless get food stamps AND welfare. If you have no marketable skills you have to start somewhere.
The starting point should not be welfare. Anyone who is getting up and going to work everyday should not be relying on foodstamps in order to get by. WalMart is the biggest employer of workers on public assistance. That is a substandard starting point that is a drain on our economy, not beneficial.
We agree that those on the gov't dole are a drain on our economy but we disagree on how best to solve that problem. I say it's the individual's responsibility to improve their skills and not the federal gov'ts job to skew the wage market.
There is nothing wrong with being a grocery clerk. In fact, it was once a viable career path for a blue collar worker. The only thing that has been skewed is the fact that American workers are continually getting a smaller and smaller piece of the pie. The fact that half of all people on welfare today actually have jobs should be a HUGE wake up call that something is very wrong with the earnings standards for the American worker.
Again, from the OP:
Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker. -Source
Based on consumption growth since 1968, the minimum wage today would have to be $25.05 to represent the same share of the country's total consumption. Based on national income growth, the minimum wage should be $22.08. Based on personal income growth, it should be $21.16. -Source
After adjusting for inflation, minimum wage workers today are paid about 26 percent less than they were in 1974.
At the top 1 percent of the American income distribution, average incomes rose 194 percent between 1974 and 2011. Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source
Well aren't you entitlement minded.
An honest day's wage for an honest day of work is hardly an entitlement.
But it is highly subjective and varies widely by geography and lifestyle choices.
Granted, it can vary by region, but that was already taken into account in the original article. Lifestyle choices, we are talking about a single person being able to support themselves on their own. Not lifestyle choices, but a basic and reasonable standard for anyone who gets up and goes to work everyday. They should be paid enough so that I don't have to buy their groceries. .
of course without the food stamps and other crippling liberal programs they would have far more incentive to work
Incentive is not the problem. The problem is that there aren't enough jobs that pay a living wage. Half of all people on welfare today have a job. That is not a problem with laziness. That is a problem with corporate greed exp;oiting (and lobbying for) socialized labor.
AYUP... work your ass off only to have more of your income go to dead beats... screw that.of course without the food stamps and other crippling liberal programs they would have far more incentive to work
Incentive is not the problem. The problem is that there aren't enough jobs that pay a living wage. Half of all people on welfare today have a job. That is not a problem with laziness. That is a problem with corporate greed exp;oiting (and lobbying for) socialized labor.
Not true in many instances. In my foray into health insurance, I've written hundreds of ACA subsidized health insurance and Medicare/Medicaid plans for people. MANY of those working for low wages do so deliberately because they get the TANF, Section 8, and EBT. They can't make more because they'll lose the free stuff and they don't want to do that. It's not an opulent lifestyle by any means, but here a single mom of 3 who lives with her boyfriend that makes $30K has more disposable income than a married couple with 3 kids that makes $50K per year.
