Analyzing A Practical Minimum Wage

[asterism]

1) Why would someone working minimum wage think they can afford to live in NYC?

Are you telling my that there are no min wage workers in NYC, and that the city does not need them?

2) Break a leg? <straw man alert>

Breaking a leg or suffering any other illness or injury is a legitimate medical concern. Riding a bicycle is the strawman.

3) WRONG borrowing stuff is not socialism. Neither is charity. Have you been this retarded your whole life? ^ retard thinks handme downs is socialism. rolls eyes...

If charity and friends were provided enough goods and services for those in need, we wouldn't have welfare. But I can also tell you that I volunteer at a food pantry, where donations are so meager we have cut meals to once per day, and cut monthly allotment to 3 days per month. And that is WITH government subsidies that have also been slashed recently.

Depending on handouts is not a solution to the corporate exploitation of socialized labor.

There is a "plethora" of free clothes & bikes available at charities. I was talking about clothes budget, you got that right? Borrowing or receiving an old bike is not socialism, ya retard.

I put a budget in for food. That you can't read or fish isn't my fault.

WRT NYC, it's too expensive to live there on minimum wage... I thought that was obvious. Your rent money will go much further out side the city. Duh!

Your "broken leg" concern is a straw man.. maybe you need to look up straw man argument. You don't seem to understand the concept. You asked for minimum wage budget then ran off talking about broken legs yelling and screaming with your head cut off that everyone needs to pay hundreds of dollars a month in case they break their leg.... when GUESS WHAT BILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIVE JUST FINE WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE.

If you make minimum wage your health insurance is very heavily subsidized now.
$14.45 per month in Nassau County NY
$39.29 in Cuyahoga County OH
$41.70 in Dallas County TX


Affordable Care Act Obamacare Health Insurance Exchanges

 

[RKMBrown]

1) Why would someone working minimum wage think they can afford to live in NYC?

Are you telling my that there are no min wage workers in NYC, and that the city does not need them?

2) Break a leg? <straw man alert>

Breaking a leg or suffering any other illness or injury is a legitimate medical concern. Riding a bicycle is the strawman.

3) WRONG borrowing stuff is not socialism. Neither is charity. Have you been this retarded your whole life? ^ retard thinks handme downs is socialism. rolls eyes...

If charity and friends were provided enough goods and services for those in need, we wouldn't have welfare. But I can also tell you that I volunteer at a food pantry, where donations are so meager we have cut meals to once per day, and cut monthly allotment to 3 days per month. And that is WITH government subsidies that have also been slashed recently.

Depending on handouts is not a solution to the corporate exploitation of socialized labor.

There is a "plethora" of free clothes & bikes available at charities. I was talking about clothes budget, you got that right? Borrowing or receiving an old bike is not socialism, ya retard.

I put a budget in for food. That you can't read or fish isn't my fault.

WRT NYC, it's too expensive to live there on minimum wage... I thought that was obvious. Your rent money will go much further out side the city. Duh!

Your "broken leg" concern is a straw man.. maybe you need to look up straw man argument. You don't seem to understand the concept. You asked for minimum wage budget then ran off talking about broken legs yelling and screaming with your head cut off that everyone needs to pay hundreds of dollars a month in case they break their leg.... when GUESS WHAT BILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIVE JUST FINE WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE.

If you make minimum wage your health insurance is very heavily subsidized now.
$14.45 per month in Nassau County NY
$39.29 in Cuyahoga County OH
$41.70 in Dallas County TX


Affordable Care Act Obamacare Health Insurance Exchanges

GRRR

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. Until the government can protect fair wages, there is no free market.

I thought capitalism created wages that made Americans the richest people in human history by far?. China just switched to capitalism and wages are skyrocketing?

Its been in all the papers?? Do liberals lack the IQ to read too?

 

[Jackinthebox]

I thought capitalism created wages that made Americans the richest people in human history by far?. China just switched to capitalism and wages are skyrocketing?

Its been in all the papers?? Do liberals lack the IQ to read too?

Welfare labor is not capitalism.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I thought capitalism created wages that made Americans the richest people in human history by far?. China just switched to capitalism and wages are skyrocketing?

Its been in all the papers?? Do liberals lack the IQ to read too?

Welfare labor is not capitalism.

and???

 

[Jackinthebox]

^ never heard of a free clinic. WOW Hey, your shoes are on backwards.

You think the reference learn how to fish only applies to fishing? Sigh, what are you like 12?

15year old kids are supposed to make minimum wage, NOT GROWN ADULTS. Grown adults working for minimum wages? WTF is wrong with them?

If you don't like your minimum wage job GO WORK FOR YOURSELF. Duh@!!!!

No such thing as a free clinic. It's all paid for by taxpayers.

Learn how to fish, learn how to hunt, plant tomatos in the alleyway. That still is not going to put food enough food on the table for a person who spends most of their day at a job.

What difference does it make how old a person is? So you support age discrimination? Maybe a little racial and gender discrimination in there too? I have been on my own since I was 16. There is no reason why I should have been paid less to do a job. And even if min wage jobs aren't "supposed to be" for adults, that is the reality today. And that is not something wrong with adults, that is something wrong with the job market. There are many jobs that used to be good blue collar career paths in the past, that are not enough to live on today.

Going to work for yourself is not a solution for our nation's economic woes. There are plenty of people who would like to go work for themselves, but the market will not support their independent business until people actually have some money to spend. That is aside from the fact that not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. We still need people to run the machines, to serve the customers, to man the ramparts so to speak.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Oh, clothes and bike. Relying on handouts is not a solution to anything either. There is no reason why a person who works every day should have to turn to handouts from the government or anyone else in order to be clothed, or to secure reliable transportation to their job. A bicycle here in the winter is a totally absurd solution.

Then shovel snow ya cry baby.

Are you intentionally being a moron at this point? Shoveling snow is not a real job. Are you seriously expecting a person to quit regular work for what is essentially a temp job? Heck, these days you would be lucky to even find people to pay you for it anyway. My construction company does snow removal. We have virtually no residential contracts anymore, and no guy with a shovel is going to be able to service our corporate contracts.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Silliness. The only peeps earning bottom dollar are those whose education, knowledge, experience and productivity warrant it. We aren't paid "an actual living wage" in America but rather what the market will bear. There will always be some at the bottom and they are there for obvious reasons. The push to drastically increase their wage is a socialist/unionist thing:

"The Center for Union Facts analyzed collective-bargaining agreements obtained from the Department of Labor’s Office of Labor-Management Standards. The data indicate that a number of unions in the service, retail and hospitality industries peg their base-line wages to the minimum wage. . . . The two most popular formulas were setting baseline union wages as a percentage above the state or federal minimum wage or mandating a flat wage premium above the minimum wage."
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324048904578318541000422454

Making taxpayer pay the labor costs for private industry, THAT is socialism my friend. Either YOU can pay to feed and shelter my workers, or you can demand that I pay my workers enough to afford those basics.

The market will "bear" a living wage, jsut as it did in the past, when our economy was actually in good shape. Our economy is in the crapper today because no one has any money to spend. No one has any money to spend because wages have been artificially depressed instead of keeping pace with things like productivity. The average American worker is 400% more productive than in 1950, but is not getting anywhere near that much of the pie.

Your opinion of low wage workers is rather ignorant I might add. Plenty of educated people working low wage jobs. Those workers also tend to be the most productive, not the least. Experience makes little difference in today's job marketplace and can even be seen as a liability. Knowledge? You might be surprised how much specialized job knowledge goes into a "simple" job like fast food. Everything from customer service kills, to precise time management, to how to break down a shake machine, to public health codes.

The average worker is not 400% more productive, the average business has invested in technology and processes that get 400% more output from the same effort by the average worker. There's a difference.

Automation and supply chain management have made it possible for manufacturing, shipping, and clerical work to be much more efficient. The workers aren't better, the businesses are better.

If a worker is operating a machine that makes them 400% more efficient, they are now a specialist, and should be paid more, not less. You are also hitting on the reason why there is no money left in the economy, and why it's all in the pockets of the 1% crowd now.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Well aren't you entitlement minded.

An honest day's wage for an honest day of work is hardly an entitlement.

But it is highly subjective and varies widely by geography and lifestyle choices.

Granted, it can vary by region, but that was already taken into account in the original article. Lifestyle choices, we are talking about a single person being able to support themselves on their own. Not lifestyle choices, but a basic and reasonable standard for anyone who gets up and goes to work everyday. They should be paid enough so that I don't have to buy their groceries. .

I did it on $8000 on 1996, equivalent to $12,000 today. I was in college at the time, but most of my tuition and books were covered by the GI BIll so that cancels out. I lived 30 minutes by bike from campus, no roommates that year, drove a beater, and worked 2 part time jobs. It wasn't a lavish living my any means but it's certainly possible. Boy did it give me an incentive to do something! I started my own business that year which paid off greatly the next year and future years.

$8000 was only $12,000 today when adjusted for inflation, not actual cost of living. For example, when I got my first job I could earn more than 4 gallons of gasoline to get me to and from that job. That same job today pays roughly 2 gallons an hour. Food costs, and housing costs have also outpaced general inflation. Much harder to get by today than in the early 90s. Not that it was easy then either though.

And even your own example is not ideal, nor universally applicable. Suffering didn't "motivate" you. You are a motivated person by nature I would expect. Most people who join the service are. If you are going to college, you should be focused on your studies, not two bullcrap jobs. This is one reason I don't usually hire college students. They are too distracted and too tired to do the job I pay them for.

Some people can't ride a bike because they have physical problems, or it's not practical in the winter. Driving a beater is fine. The OP didn't mention anything about buying a brand new car every two years.

Starting your own business is great. But that still doesn't fix the problem that now YOU are profiting from welfare labor instead of paying your workers a living wage.

 

[Jackinthebox]

No, you're not. No matter how you try to spin this you are promoting the use of gov't power to take from some (biz) and give to others and you don't seem to care how many jobs are lost by your actions. Min wage isn't supposed to be a living wage but rather an entry level wage and the federal gov't has no biz defining it.

Using government power to tell private business to pay their own bills is hardly the thievery you are trying to portray. Yes, money SHOULD be taken from private business and given to others, their workers. So that we don't have to buy their groceries.

And yes, min wage certainly is supposed to be a living wage. The notion of "entry-level" is what is false here. I don't care what you do for a living, if it is your first day or last day on the job. You should be paid enough to buy your own groceries without taxpayer assistance.

"The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees." -Cornell University Law School, Legal Information Institute

You're a union and government tool. that's all
how many businesses do you have and how many people do you have working for you?

Im retired for the most part. But I never had any union workers working for me. I operated small businesses. Gas stations, movie theaters, restaurants. Less than a thousand workers overall.

But I am not a government tool. I am trying to take government OUT of private industry. I would much rather see the simple min wage law applied effectively, rather than letting private industry exploit a socialized labor pool.

Give us a proforma for a restaurant and a movie theater paying workers $23.50 minimum. I'm a business person and this is a financial decision, not a political one. Show me how it would work using figures that are based on your experience.

The OP calls for a $17 min, not $23. But either way, if that was across the board there would be a LOT more discretionary spending going on. My increased labor cost would be quickly and easily offset by increased consumer spending. This is evident from increased sales around the first of the month when welfare payments are dispersed. This is evident from increased spending around tax time when people are getting their returns.

 

[Jackinthebox]

So if I have 3 ex-wives and 10 kids and a "living wage" is $40 per hour does that mean you'll pay me that much to mow your lawn?

The OP specifically states that the figures are for a single person. One person, and an honest day's wage for their labor. Ex wives and ten kids are irrelevant. The practical standard is that one person should be ably to support themselves, not half the country.

 

[RKMBrown]

Oh, clothes and bike. Relying on handouts is not a solution to anything either. There is no reason why a person who works every day should have to turn to handouts from the government or anyone else in order to be clothed, or to secure reliable transportation to their job. A bicycle here in the winter is a totally absurd solution.

Then shovel snow ya cry baby.

Are you intentionally being a moron at this point? Shoveling snow is not a real job. Are you seriously expecting a person to quit regular work for what is essentially a temp job? Heck, these days you would be lucky to even find people to pay you for it anyway. My construction company does snow removal. We have virtually no residential contracts anymore, and no guy with a shovel is going to be able to service our corporate contracts.

Listen to this moron. working isn't a real job... what a piece of shit.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Not true in many instances. In my foray into health insurance, I've written hundreds of ACA subsidized health insurance and Medicare/Medicaid plans for people. MANY of those working for low wages do so deliberately because they get the TANF, Section 8, and EBT. They can't make more because they'll lose the free stuff and they don't want to do that. It's not an opulent lifestyle by any means, but here a single mom of 3 who lives with her boyfriend that makes $30K has more disposable income than a married couple with 3 kids that makes $50K per year.

Pretty sad that there is so little opportunity out there for people that they have to play these sorts of games with welfare in the first place just to get by. It makes no sense to give up free groceries to take a job that will pay starvation wages.

 

[RKMBrown]

Not true in many instances. In my foray into health insurance, I've written hundreds of ACA subsidized health insurance and Medicare/Medicaid plans for people. MANY of those working for low wages do so deliberately because they get the TANF, Section 8, and EBT. They can't make more because they'll lose the free stuff and they don't want to do that. It's not an opulent lifestyle by any means, but here a single mom of 3 who lives with her boyfriend that makes $30K has more disposable income than a married couple with 3 kids that makes $50K per year.

Pretty sad that there is so little opportunity out there for people that they have to play these sorts of games with welfare in the first place just to get by. It makes no sense to give up free groceries to take a job that will pay starvation wages.

Only morons like you and young children work for minumum wage.

 

[Jackinthebox]

AYUP... work your ass off only to have more of your income go to dead beats... screw that.

How about work your ass off and still have to get your meals from the welfare office? If you are so sick of welfare, then mandate a living wage. You should not have to pay to feed shelter and clothe my workers. But you will have to for as long as you don't make me pay them a living wage.

 

[Jackinthebox]

I thought capitalism created wages that made Americans the richest people in human history by far?. China just switched to capitalism and wages are skyrocketing?

Its been in all the papers?? Do liberals lack the IQ to read too?

Welfare labor is not capitalism.

and???

And???

A mandated living wage would end socialized labor.

 

[RKMBrown]

AYUP... work your ass off only to have more of your income go to dead beats... screw that.

How about work your ass off and still have to get your meals from the welfare office? If you are so sick of welfare, then mandate a living wage. You should not have to pay to feed shelter and clothe my workers. But you will have to for as long as you don't make me pay them a living wage.

Moron.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Oh, clothes and bike. Relying on handouts is not a solution to anything either. There is no reason why a person who works every day should have to turn to handouts from the government or anyone else in order to be clothed, or to secure reliable transportation to their job. A bicycle here in the winter is a totally absurd solution.

Then shovel snow ya cry baby.

Are you intentionally being a moron at this point? Shoveling snow is not a real job. Are you seriously expecting a person to quit regular work for what is essentially a temp job? Heck, these days you would be lucky to even find people to pay you for it anyway. My construction company does snow removal. We have virtually no residential contracts anymore, and no guy with a shovel is going to be able to service our corporate contracts.

Listen to this moron. working isn't a real job... what a piece of shit.

If you think that shoveling snow a few times this winter is going to support a person, then YOU are the moron. So eat a turd. I'm don't with your ignorance.

 

[Jackinthebox]

AYUP... work your ass off only to have more of your income go to dead beats... screw that.

How about work your ass off and still have to get your meals from the welfare office? If you are so sick of welfare, then mandate a living wage. You should not have to pay to feed shelter and clothe my workers. But you will have to for as long as you don't make me pay them a living wage.

Moron.

Ad hominems, the refuge of the dense and the disinformed.

 

[RKMBrown]

Oh, clothes and bike. Relying on handouts is not a solution to anything either. There is no reason why a person who works every day should have to turn to handouts from the government or anyone else in order to be clothed, or to secure reliable transportation to their job. A bicycle here in the winter is a totally absurd solution.

Then shovel snow ya cry baby.

Are you intentionally being a moron at this point? Shoveling snow is not a real job. Are you seriously expecting a person to quit regular work for what is essentially a temp job? Heck, these days you would be lucky to even find people to pay you for it anyway. My construction company does snow removal. We have virtually no residential contracts anymore, and no guy with a shovel is going to be able to service our corporate contracts.

Listen to this moron. working isn't a real job... what a piece of shit.

If you think that shoveling snow a few times this winter is going to support a person, then YOU are the moron. So eat a turd. I'm don't with your ignorance.

Yeah cause working can't possibly support a person. Face it, you are a moron.