And Israel is an apartheid state

[fairandbalanced]

Gaza marathon cancelled by UN agency over Hamas ban on women runners
Associated Press

Mar 5, 2013



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JERUSALEM // A United Nations aid agency has cancelled the marathon in Gaza following a ban on women runners imposed by the territory's Hamas rulers.

UNWRA, which assists Palestinian refugees and also sponsors and organises the event, announced today that plans for the April race have been scrapped.

A statement from agency said that "this disappointing decision follows discussions with the authorities in Gaza who have insisted that no women should participate" in the marathon.

Hamas is cracking down on behaviour it deems contrary to Islam and has already banned women from riding on the backs of motorbikes, smoking shisha, and men from working in hair salons.

 

[toastman]

What an Amazing government Hamas is ! Elected by none other than the Palestinians themselves !

 

[Roudy]

Gaza marathon cancelled by UN agency over Hamas ban on women runners
Associated Press

Mar 5, 2013



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JERUSALEM // A United Nations aid agency has cancelled the marathon in Gaza following a ban on women runners imposed by the territory's Hamas rulers.

UNWRA, which assists Palestinian refugees and also sponsors and organises the event, announced today that plans for the April race have been scrapped.

A statement from agency said that "this disappointing decision follows discussions with the authorities in Gaza who have insisted that no women should participate" in the marathon.

Hamas is cracking down on behaviour it deems contrary to Islam and has already banned women from riding on the backs of motorbikes, smoking shisha, and men from working in hair salons.

A marathon in a "concentration camp"?! What were they thinking in the first place!

Who's in charge of media affairs in Hamas? Fire him! Or rather...FIRE ON HIM!

 

[proudveteran06]

You will not hear any Pro- Palestinians posting or protesting about this. They are all a bunch of Hypocrites

 

[Maryland]

You will not hear any Pro- Palestinians posting or protesting about this. They are all a bunch of Hypocrites

Pro-Palestinian is really a pretext for anti-Semitism.

 

[Billo_Really]

Now Palestinian's are not allowed to ride in public buses.

Here's a first hand account of what apartheid is like in Israel.

‘You’re Not Allowed to Use Public Transportation At All’: A Report from Israel’s Segregated Buses

i arrived at 4 PM at the bus terminal (near what is called the “Shomron Gate Junction”). Until five it looked like nothing was going to happen. Blessed boredom. Travellers get on and get off, including some who look like Palestinians. A military vehicle behind the bus honked with pointless violence and suddenly activated a siren, surely that was nothing more than the simple boorishness of the soldiers who are the lords of the land.

At five o’clock sharp the action begins: a policeman, First Sergeant Shai Zecharia, portentiously boards Bus 286, which is stopped at the station. Soldiers order all the Palestinians to get off. Right away they collect their ID cards upon their exit from the bus. That way they can’t go anywhere until they get permission. Nearly thirty workers, ages 30-50, obediently file out. The soldier/officer roars: “Udrub!” (Move!) And then: “Sit on your butts! On your butts!” They are then marched to the terminal fence and made to stand along it in a line, then to sit on the cold ground and wait. The soldiers check the green IDs (Arabic: hawwiye) and demand to see their “tasrih” (work permits). A lucky few get their IDs back and board another bus – complaining only about having to pay twice for the same trip. But our forces immediately block this channel: one by one the workers are told to leave the terminal and walk to the Azoun-Atme checkpoint, 2.5 kilometres from the Shomron Gate junction. By now it’s cold; the sun has set. Most of them got up at three in the morning for the trip to work. Their homes are only a few kilometres from nearby Ariel. All they ask is to be allowed to ride the bus for another two or three stops. They paid for the trip. And by the way, a “tasrih” costs 8,000 shekels. You have to work hard to cover that sum before you earn your first shekel.

The soldiers nabbed four workers who had dared to work without a “tasrih”. The short one venomously says, “They can spend some time in the Yoav fortress.” Then the next consignment arrives, about another 25 workers. The armed and heroic little guy is soon shoving them with both hands. The procedure is repeated: “Udrub”, on your butts, hawiyye, tasrih. Now move it to Azoun-Atme. Within half an hour about eighty men have been subjected to this humiliation by a few armed soldiers and one policeman. They all responded with restraint and dismay, at most asking the obvious questions and now and then getting enlightening replies, such as:

“You’re not allowed to be on Highway 5.” At long last: official confirmation that there are apartheid highways in Israel, despite all the denials.

“You’re not allowed to use public transportation at all.”

Fuck Israel and fuck the IDF.

 

[Saigon]

You will not hear any Pro- Palestinians posting or protesting about this. They are all a bunch of Hypocrites

I can't imagine where you might dream up something like this - do you see anyone on this board endorsing Hamas's move?

I think it's disappointing, and not at all the kind of moderate leadership most of us would prefer to see in Gaza.

 

[Saigon]

Pro-Palestinian is really a pretext for anti-Semitism.

This is simply vile - and maybe this is a good time to ask yourself why it is so important to you to be the victim even on topics that have nothing to do with you.

Supporting Palestinian independence is, for many people, purely a question of justice and fair play. I feel the same way about the Armenians, the Kurds, the Shan and Sikhs.

All peoples have a right to self-determination and all people deserve recourse to justice.

That some American posters oppose this disgusts me, as I know it disgusts many Israelis.

 

[irosie91]

good point saigon I am disgusted by the fact that more than a billion muslims reject the right of jews to live in their
own land ----in a jewish nation---I am disgusted that muslims are TAUGHT in mosques to murder jewish infants

 

[Saigon]

good point saigon I am disgusted by the fact that more than a billion muslims reject the right of jews to live in their
own land ----in a jewish nation---I am disgusted that muslims are TAUGHT in mosques to murder jewish infants

So am I, and most people who support the right of Palestinians to self-determination feel the same way.

Of course Israeli's deserve the right to live in peace on their own land. It seems to be a favourite assumption made on this board every day that supporting Israel means opposing Palestine and visa versa - this is not true and has never been true of anyone I know. It's a sign of incredibly simplistic, blinkered and childish logic.

Likewise I believe Kurds, Armenians and Shan deserve to determine their own fate - without this meaning that I belie Turkey, Russia or Burma should be wiped off the map.

 

[Politico]

Wow you have no idea what Apartheid is. Perhaps you should copy and paste from somewhere else. Better yet actually get out od th basement, go there and then write something original.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I agree with the thread title and South African Christian Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Israel is an Apartheid State. Sherri

 

[Saigon]

As for the OP, I don't think Israel is an apartheid state as such, but it does practice collection punishment, does breach international law with impunity, and does do more to sustain the conflict than resolve it.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

An allegation of apartheid, like genocide, stands for something evil in the public mind, and is associated with the kind of institutionalized racism that owes its name to the governing process of South Africa under white rule. But the crime of apartheid was generalized on the basis of this historical background, and has the status of an international crime. Directing such an allegation at Israel for its overall treatment of the Palestinians is a provocative accusation, but one that increasingly reflects a consensus among objective observers. But it is also the kind of issue that is evaded by established international institutions, including the International Criminal Court (ICC), for at least two reasons: Israel is part of the West, and the West in general enjoys a de facto exemption from accountability under international criminal law; Israel is geopolitically insulated from formal procedures of accountability by the United States and some of its European allies.

Israel and Apartheid? Reflections on the Russell Tribunal on Palestine Session in South Africa |

Sherri

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

I call it for what it is, like Desmond Tutu, like Richard Falk, it is Apartheid!

 

[P F Tinmore]

Gaza marathon cancelled by UN agency over Hamas ban on women runners
Associated Press

Mar 5, 2013



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JERUSALEM // A United Nations aid agency has cancelled the marathon in Gaza following a ban on women runners imposed by the territory's Hamas rulers.

UNWRA, which assists Palestinian refugees and also sponsors and organises the event, announced today that plans for the April race have been scrapped.

A statement from agency said that "this disappointing decision follows discussions with the authorities in Gaza who have insisted that no women should participate" in the marathon.

Hamas is cracking down on behaviour it deems contrary to Islam and has already banned women from riding on the backs of motorbikes, smoking shisha, and men from working in hair salons.

Indeed, the Muslims do have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot.

Although many of these Islamic decrees have fallen to popular opposition. The requirement for dress codes for girls in high school is out. The requirement for the hijab in court is out. Male hairdressers are still in business. Etc.

 

[Unkotare]

As for the OP, I don't think Israel is an apartheid state as such, but it does practice collection [sic] punishment, does [sic] breach international law with impunity, and does [sic] do more to sustain the conflict than resolve it.

That would be "collective" punishment, if it were true.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The Russell Tribunal On Palestine made a finding of Israel being an Apartheid Regime and this was a very broad finding of Apartheid

The Crime of Apartheid

The most controversial, and at the same time far reaching feature, of the RToP finding was to conclude that Israeli responsibility for establishing an apartheid regime applied not only to Palestinians living under occupation, but also to the Palestinians minority living with discriminatory regulations in Israel and to the Palestinian diaspora consisting of 4-5 million refugees and exiles. Seen in isolation it seems like an unconvincing extension of the meaning of apartheid, even if separated from its South African connection, to consider Palestinian citizens of Israel, even if victims of severe and humbling discrimination, as living under an apartheid regime or even more so to view diaspora Palestinians in this manner. But there is moral and psychopolitical weight to the unanimous view of the RToP jurors that the core right of self-determination applies to the Palestinian people as a whole, including those not living under direct Israeli military control. It challenges various Israeli efforts to split the Palestinian people, once a unity prior to the establishment of Israel, into a series of fragmentary realities, pitting against one another.The radical fragmentation of the West Bank, with its hundreds of checkpoints and restrictions on mobility and access, is a metaphor for this wider Israelipolicy of undermining Palestinian identity as a sequel to Palestinian dispossession associated with the nakba, conceived of as an ongoing process rather than an event frozen in time

Israel and Apartheid? Reflections on the Russell Tribunal on Palestine Session in South Africa |

Sherri

 

[fairandbalanced]

The Russell Tribunal On Palestine made a finding of Israel being an Apartheid Regime and this was a very broad finding of Apartheid

The Crime of Apartheid

The most controversial, and at the same time far reaching feature, of the RToP finding was to conclude that Israeli responsibility for establishing an apartheid regime applied not only to Palestinians living under occupation, but also to the Palestinians minority living with discriminatory regulations in Israel and to the Palestinian diaspora consisting of 4-5 million refugees and exiles. Seen in isolation it seems like an unconvincing extension of the meaning of apartheid, even if separated from its South African connection, to consider Palestinian citizens of Israel, even if victims of severe and humbling discrimination, as living under an apartheid regime or even more so to view diaspora Palestinians in this manner. But there is moral and psychopolitical weight to the unanimous view of the RToP jurors that the core right of self-determination applies to the Palestinian people as a whole, including those not living under direct Israeli military control. It challenges various Israeli efforts to split the Palestinian people, once a unity prior to the establishment of Israel, into a series of fragmentary realities, pitting against one another.The radical fragmentation of the West Bank, with its hundreds of checkpoints and restrictions on mobility and access, is a metaphor for this wider Israelipolicy of undermining Palestinian identity as a sequel to Palestinian dispossession associated with the nakba, conceived of as an ongoing process rather than an event frozen in time

Israel and Apartheid? Reflections on the Russell Tribunal on Palestine Session in South Africa |

Sherri

***
I don't know much about you, Sherri, and have no clue if what you are saying is just a hearsay or from experience, but seems like many other pro-Palestinians you have a tendency to throw words (accusations) around. Palestinian genocide/Holocaust, for example or starvation of Palestinian children and now apartheid.
Trust me, you don't know what apartheid is. I have seen signs at various establishments warning non Muslims not to enter, and witnessed those who dared to go into a tea house to get a drink beaten up (in a Muslim country) and heard stories that would make Israel's treatment of Palestinians like a day in Disneyland.
I admire those who stand with the underdog but you folks are being selective. Scores being beheaded/hanged/crucified in Saudi Arabia and you wouldn't waste a word but Israel's implantation of a policy to insure security of its citizens brings your blood to boil. Why?

 

[Saigon]

I have seen signs at various establishments warning non Muslims not to enter, and witnessed those who dared to go into a tea house to get a drink beaten up (in a Muslim country) and heard stories that would make Israel's treatment of Palestinians like a day in Disneyland.

Really?

Where was this....specifically?