Animal Rights, Yes or No

[Shogun]

Hippos kill more people in Africa than any other animal. They are dangerous.

Also the whole thing of giving an animal rights based on its purpose is retarded. Every animal (indeed every organism) has the same purpose. Survive and breed.

Nothing was meant to be eaten, cows have a herding instinct and size to avoid being eaten.

As to corn feeding, it has some nasty side effects (and not just for the cow).

Me I avoid beef any way, our prion testing is inadequate for my tastes.

Hippos sure do kill enough humans to keep the human population in check, eh?

And, what does SURVIVAL entail? eating other animals?

Survival reactions themselves validate the necessity of feeding upon other animals. to suggest what is MEANT is superficially philosophical and invites dogma into the comprehension of a natural phenomena.

feel free to avoid beef. Thats your choice in a society that has created a cushion to survival. I tend to avoid soy milk and veggie burgers as an abomination to the palette.

 

[AllieBaba]

They have to do all this complicated stuff so run off goes to the right place, which is located in the right place, and made the right way, so that it doesn't get into the ground water, or go running into the rivers, creeks and ultimately oceans.

Nitrogen is different because it's a chemical, and it's applied using water, and runs off the fields (which don't have to manage waste, though they are always trying to manage run-off) and into the water and ultimately to the sea...

This looks like a good site:
http://www.wsi.nrcs.usda.gov/products/W2Q/AWM/AWM_home.html

 

[Shogun]

hehehhe...what you mean michael vicks dogs whose purpose was to fight or shogun uncles who thought kittens purpose was flight testing doesn't make sense?

Did Vick eat his dogs?


I think it's funny how my reminder of field dressing a deer scared you away like an alpha dog baring teeth.

 

[Bern80]

My boyfriend became one about 6 years ago out of concern for the harm the meat industry causes the environment.

That's a little interesting. By extension I would have to guess that is because he thinks cows take up too much space. Wonder what the solution to that would be......

I would also have to guess he hasn't seen a Montana cattle ranch.

If the inhumane treatment of the cow is concerend presumably said person would eat meat if provided by, say, a hunter?

 

[Anguille]

are you fucking kidding me? THOUSANDS of hunters get their deers processed by small business every year. Hell, how many hunters gut the fucking animal ON THE SPOT? I think you assume a bit too much.

I think you know doeton's not talking about your local butcher shop. The animals in factory farms are alive.

 

[Shogun]

Did Hindu's exist before the Boca burger?

Are hindu vegetarians reflective at all of the rest of meat eating humanity?


further, not all hindus avoid meat. Im sure we can find some hunter tribe somewhere that only eats meat though. What do you suppose that says about the rest of humanity?

 

[Shogun]

It is far more productive to feed the grains and soybeans to people rather than to the animal to raise it for feeding people. If anything, livestock has the opposite effect.

good thing pigs dont have quite the same say in their diet as humans do, eh?

 

[Reality]

but killing animals in order to eat them is hardly a matter of cruelty.

Locking them in cages that they have no ability to move in for the purposes of keeping the meat tender and move valuable on the open market, like in the veal industry, certainly lacks any moral compass whatsoever. Same with the production methods of Foie Gras.

 

[Shogun]

I think you know doeton's not talking about your local butcher shop. The animals in factory farms are alive.

its the same thing. Do you think people DONT work at a slaughterhouse? Bambi was alive too. How many kids do you really think balk at pulling the trigger? BALK at ripping the guts out of a deer less than 5 minutes dead?

 

[Reality]

Why are there always some people who think we should be limited only to what we must have for survival?

If we quit eating meat, what will happen to all the cows, sheep, goats, pigs, chickens, etc.? Who will feed them? Will we turn them loose to starve? Kill them and burn the bodies? If we aren't eating them, and we're feeding them, then we aren't going to have enough to eat ourselves.

If people ate less of them less of them would be produced and the country would spend much less money on healthcare.

 

[Anguille]

because we are humans. a collective specie that can wholly empathize with each other.

Where did you learn that? At Human Resources school?

What's a collective specie? Is this related toyour theories on race?

now, again, tell me how much space a chicken must have in order to be allowed to produce mcnuggets. If you can't answer this then you have just fallen into the arbitrary nature of this debate.

I'm checking with Frank Perdue at this very moment.

Tell me... is the arbitrary nature of this debate a scary place? Are there spiders there?

 

[Anguille]

Can you tell me where it's running into the ocean at?

Farmers have to account for their waste.

The Gulf of Mexico.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...llution-standards_N.htm?csp=23&RM_Exclude=aol

"Groups seek limits on Mississippi, Gulf of Mexico pollution
Posted 1d 7h ago

DES MOINES (AP) — Environmental groups in nine states have petitioned the U.S. government to set and enforce pollution standards in the Mississippi River basin and the Gulf of Mexico.
The petition to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency followed Monday's announcement that the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico is the second largest to date at 8,000 square miles.

The dead zone is an area of water where oxygen levels are too low to support marine life. It's caused every year by nitrogen and phosphorus pollution that flows into the gulf from the Mississippi River, much of it from fertilizer runoff from farm fields.

Officials from the groups said the dead zone will continue to grow unless standards are set for nitrogen and phosphorus pollution. The organizations are all from U.S. states bordering the Mississippi River — Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Tennessee and Wisconsin."

......continued

 

[Anguille]

Can you tell me where it's running into the ocean at?

Farmers have to account for their waste.

Uncontrolled Factory Farm Manure Causes Pollution and Threatens Health

"Uncontrolled Factory Farm Manure Causes Pollution and Threatens Health, According to Comprehensive New Report
AUSTIN, TX - The unchecked growth of factory farms-and their resulting mountains of untreated livestock manure-are fouling drinking water and causing a public health risk in Texas and at least 29 other states according to a new report released today.

The Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) and the Clean Water Network on Thursday released the report America's Animal Factories: How States Fail to Prevent Pollution from Livestock Waste nationwide.

The report details how corporate-owned "factory" farms in these states are poisoning drinking water supplies by fouling rivers, lakes, streams and underground aquifers. Moreover, these mountains of manure are releasing toxic fumes into the air, making them a major source of air pollution in rural areas. In most states, according to the report, polluters face minimal regulation and lax enforcement of existing laws.
......"

 

[Anguille]

I hate chimps. I don't think they're great at recognizing the rights of other chimps. They kill each other willy nilly all the time. They kill their own young and the young of others. They are cannibals.

They're just gross.

That's too bad. They always speak highly of you.

 

[Anguille]

Yes, but 7th day adventists didn't..

 

[deaddude]

Hippos sure do kill enough humans to keep the human population in check, eh?

No, we breed way to quickly for that, they do however change our gene pool by removing quite a few individuals from it.

And, what does SURVIVAL entail? eating other animals?

Depending on the species, yes. Cats are obligate carnivores, cows are naturally herbivores. Humans are omnivores and can get by on almost anything but are healthiest when they feed from a variety of sources.

Survival reactions themselves validate the necessity of feeding upon other animals. to suggest what is MEANT is superficially philosophical and invites dogma into the comprehension of a natural phenomena.

I agree with this, which is why saying that assigning animals rights based on their supposed purpose is retarded.

feel free to avoid beef. Thats your choice in a society that has created a cushion to survival. I tend to avoid soy milk and veggie burgers as an abomination to the palette.

I don't avoid it out of moral objection. I just work with vets a lot. Many of whom will not consume beef because our testing methods for prion diseases are sub-par.

 

[Reality]

Pork is not cheap when you consider the cost to the environment; the run off of pig waste in to rivers and the ocean, the petro chemicals needed to make fertilizer and insecticides for the corn fed to pigs. We will all be paying for that big time.

North Carolina struggles with keeping pig waste out of the water system. I couldn't verify it by a quick search, but I once heard a statistic that claimed NC produces more pig waste than New York City does human waste. Overproduction for market purposes creates major impacts and costs passed on to government.

 

[Reality]

That's a little interesting. By extension I would have to guess that is because he thinks cows take up too much space. Wonder what the solution to that would be......

I would also have to guess he hasn't seen a Montana cattle ranch.

If the inhumane treatment of the cow is concerend presumably said person would eat meat if provided by, say, a hunter?

Or a local, free range farm.

 

[Reality]

Are hindu vegetarians reflective at all of the rest of meat eating humanity?


further, not all hindus avoid meat. Im sure we can find some hunter tribe somewhere that only eats meat though. What do you suppose that says about the rest of humanity?

Absolutely not, vegetarianism is at the heart of Hinduism or Budhism. There are Christians and Muslims in India however.

 

[Anguille]

That's a little interesting. By extension I would have to guess that is because he thinks cows take up too much space. Wonder what the solution to that would be......

I would also have to guess he hasn't seen a Montana cattle ranch.

If the inhumane treatment of the cow is concerend presumably said person would eat meat if provided by, say, a hunter?

He thinks that instead of growing the amount of corn needed to feed a cow till it's ready for slaughter, we would be wiser to grow other less environmentally destructive crops for direct human consumption. We'd have a whole lot more food too since the amount a cow eats in it's life time to produce the amount of meat we end up with hardly justifies the cost.

I'd eat meat from a Montana cattle ranch or from a hunter but I think my boyfriend would still abstain. Cholesterol is not his friend.