Another family friendly pit bull story

[Anguille]

Where did I say bisexuals don't exist? Oh, right, I didn't. I said you can condition someone to accept doing something but you can't make them like it.

The rest of what you posted is nothing more than .

No offense, and I don't wish to squeel on you, but your historical defense of pit bulls is legendary and misguided.

Tell me, who do you think is worse? Muslims or pit bulls?
I didn't say you said bisexuals don't exist. I wondered if that's what you think. Sure, you can force someone to have sex but you can't force them to like it. I am just not willing to join the crowd that says sexual orientation is always and entirely determined by birth. That doesn't mean I think you can forcibly change someone's orientation, but people do find themselves in situations where homosexuality or celibacy is the only choice and they do choose homosexuality. It happens in prisons, convents, etc. I think there are more than just genetic reasons that determine a person's sexuality but beyond genes those things may be unconscious and happen at a young age. And I think that people who are entirely hetero or homosexual are rare as are people who are perfectly bisexual. I think most of us fall somewhere on a spectrum between straight and gay perhaps not in actual behavior but in inner thoughts and desires. I have no evidence to base that on. It just seems realistic to me from what I've observed of human behavior and from what people tell me about themselves.

 

[Anguille]

Really? Here's what wiki says about the shar-pei's temperament.......

And so, how does that make the Shar Pei a dangerous war-like dog?
"If poorly socialized or trained, it can become especially territorial and aggressive. Even friendly and well-socialized individuals will retain the breed's watch dog proclivities (such as barking at strangers)."
How does this make Shar peis any different than any other kind of dog?
Most of the rest that description simply describes all dogs and the rest about them being independent doesn't mean much either Independence is a personality trait not an aberrant behavior like biting and attacking in situations where the dog is not threatened.
It's like reading horoscopes when you read these descriptions of dog breeds and their behaviors. You read the wrong one by mistake, say Wow that's me! then realize you read the wrong one.

 

[Anguille]

The animal bigots watch too much TV.

First of all, "pit bull" refers to multiple, different breeds depending on who you're talking to.

I've had this discussion so many times on the interwebz. I remember one time some pit banner posted a bunch of articles about supposed pit attacks. I started reading them and they dealt with breeds like Mastiffs, Dobies, etc.

Basically, the idiot pit haters lump in any large dog into this sensationalistic "pit bull" category the media's told them they're supposed to be scared of.

Second, all of the so-called "pit bull" breeds combined account for roughly as many bites as Rottweilers (If any of you dog banners would like me to hand you your ass on a silver platter, I'm more than willing to provide a link).

Third, I'd feel much more comfortable leaving a small child around any of the so-called "pit bull" breeds than rotties, German Shepherds, Huskies, etc.

Having put in some extensive volunteer time at a local shelter and having been bitten multiple times (I'm a big guy so I get stuck with the psycho dogs) I can say that the worst bite I've ever received was from a toy poodle. No lie. The infection was awful.

I don't dislike any breed and I think all the dog banners are idiots but anyone who's worked with dogs will agree that German Shepherds and Rotties tend to be the worst as far as human aggression goes.

Personally I'm a Dachshund and JRT man myself. I like their feistiness, playfulness and take no bullshit from anyone attitude.

But all dogs are great and someday if I have enough land I'd love to rescue some so-called "pit bulls." Preferably some Staffies, maybe a Presa Canario or two, and a Dogo Argentino.

For those of you who aren't total retards: Bad Rap : Bay Area Doglovers Responsible About Pit bulls

That's the shelter that took in Vick the Prick's dogs and has found most of them happy, loving homes.

Nice to see you have a good side, Ninja!
Did you know Hitler was also kind to dogs? LOL!
But seriously, thanks for helping out the shelter. I like psycho dogs too. I've tamed a few in my life. Currently there is one around the corner from me. Chained on a six foot chain, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. She wants to kill my dog and anyone walking down the street but if I go by there alone she lets me pet her now.

 

[Anguille]

There were also quite a few that had to be destroyed. Not all of the dogs were placed in homes.

So what does that mean? That the dogs were born with mean genes or that being treated brutally and tortured in to fighting other dogs maybe messed them up?

 

[Ninja]

There were also quite a few that had to be destroyed. Not all of the dogs were placed in homes.

A whopping 2 out of 68 were put down.

 

[Ravi]

Tell me, who do you think is worse? Muslims or pit bulls?
I didn't say you said bisexuals don't exist. I wondered if that's what you think. Sure, you can force someone to have sex but you can't force them to like it. I am just not willing to join the crowd that says sexual orientation is always and entirely determined by birth. That doesn't mean I think you can forcibly change someone's orientation, but people do find themselves in situations where homosexuality or celibacy is the only choice and they do choose homosexuality. It happens in prisons, convents, etc. I think there are more than just genetic reasons that determine a person's sexuality but beyond genes those things may be unconscious and happen at a young age. And I think that people who are entirely hetero or homosexual are rare as are people who are perfectly bisexual. I think most of us fall somewhere on a spectrum between straight and gay perhaps not in actual behavior but in inner thoughts and desires. I have no evidence to base that on. It just seems realistic to me from what I've observed of human behavior and from what people tell me about themselves.

We seem to be having a misunderstanding. My original point was that just because you can condition someone to do something, it doesn't mean you can condition someone to LIKE doing it.

As for the dogs, I don't recall anyone on this thread saying pit bulls should be banned. I personally think it should be illegal to breed them with other pits...let the breed die out. I'm talking about the breed of pit bull that is not recognized the the AKC, btw. As to Ninjanerd's claims that other dogs bite more, bfd, I never read about other dogs ripping babies to shreds.

 

[strollingbones]

We seem to be having a misunderstanding. My original point was that just because you can condition someone to do something, it doesn't mean you can condition someone to LIKE doing it.

As for the dogs, I don't recall anyone on this thread saying pit bulls should be banned. I personally think it should be illegal to breed them with other pits...let the breed die out. I'm talking about the breed of pit bull that is not recognized the the AKC, btw. As to Ninjanerd's claims that other dogs bite more, bfd, I never read about other dogs ripping babies to shreds.

other dogs do bite more...but its the damage of the bite ...pits lead in fatal bites...

a pit will go into full attack and will not back down....most dogs can be convinced to release...as another poster pointed out...pit will lock on the object they are attacking.

 

[Ravi]

[FONT=&quot]woof[/FONT]

That's quite a tail, Angie. I'm surprised the cop didn't cite your owner for letting you run loose in the streets off your leash.

Seriously, though, if this guy can't even train his dog not to bark he really shouldn't own a dog, or at the very least, he should be made to leave his dog home while shopping.

 

[manifold]

Care to offer some scientific back up to your claims?

Besides my own experiences with dogs, the fact that the Center for Disease Control, just about every Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals as well as all American veterinary associations and also, I believe, the American Kennel Club have ALL expressed concern and provide evidence that breed specific laws do absolutely no good at all in preventing death and injuries from dogs and in fact, make the situation worse by misidentifying the major cause of dog related death and injury and detracting from the need to insure that animal owners are responsible in their treatment, care and training of their dogs.

I'm not advocating breed specific laws. I'm just saying a pit bull is more likely to rip your kid's face off than any other breed. And yes, there is ample empirical data to support this conclusion. But it's pretty clear this is one subject for which you are incapable of objectivity. I'll let it slide since at least where you're concerned, that's the exception rather than the rule.

 

[manifold]

The only time I was in serious danger of dog attack and had to jump off my bike onto the top of a car was when I was bitten and chased by two black labs. Never once had a bad experience with a pit pull or a a pit mix. The scariest most vicious dog I ever worked with, one that was eventually put down because he was so messed up, was a Rhodesian ridgeback.
but I still love labs and ridgebacks.

Like you said earlier, "Hate the deed, not the breed"

Allow me to paraphrase your best pal Soggy: Tell me again exactly how your personal experience qualifies as the universal standard?

 

[Anguille]

A whopping 2 out of 68 were put down.

66 dogs with supposedly killer genes raised in a dog fight factory, trained to kill. And yet they were able to be rehabilitated and adopted out as pets. That's remarkable and yet another testament to the versatility of dogs.
Good news like this doesn't sell newspapers, though. People would rather read about babies eaten live by monster dogs.

 

[Anguille]

We seem to be having a misunderstanding. My original point was that just because you can condition someone to do something, it doesn't mean you can condition someone to LIKE doing it.

As for the dogs, I don't recall anyone on this thread saying pit bulls should be banned. I personally think it should be illegal to breed them with other pits...let the breed die out. I'm talking about the breed of pit bull that is not recognized the the AKC, btw. As to Ninjanerd's claims that other dogs bite more, bfd, I never read about other dogs ripping babies to shreds.

Does it matter that no one else brought up the issue of breed specific laws? Isn't that what people sometimes have in the backs of their minds when they start posting about about pit bulls and saying they are more dangerous than other dogs? If you are saying you think breeding pit bulls should be illegal, that's advocating a breed specific law.
I'm against inbreeding of dogs and there should be more protections for animals. The AKC promotes the breeding of dogs with breathing problems like pugs and mastiffs due to selective breeding for what is considered a cute face, dogs like dachshunds and Bassets who suffer back problems, English bull dogs who suffer from digestion and hip problems, Labs which are prone to epilespy. The AKC is not an organization truly concerned with the health of dogs or people. But even they are opposed to breed specific laws.

Why do you think you never read about other dogs killing kids? Or that that pit bulls are all you remember reading about? How come we never read about professional veterinary associations condemming pitbulls or SPCAs or the CDC? Because these organization have actuallt done research on the question and have concluded that breed specific laws are not based on anything legitimate and actually make the problem of dangerous dogs worse by not addressing the problem in a useful way.

 

[Anguille]

other dogs do bite more...but its the damage of the bite ...pits lead in fatal bites...

a pit will go into full attack and will not back down....most dogs can be convinced to release...as another poster pointed out...pit will lock on the object they are attacking.

Bull dogs and Mastiffs and most terriers can have the same tendency. My mutt won't release either when we are playing tug of war. I was once nearly strangled by an English sheepdog who caught latched ontot he ends of a long wool scarf I was wearing and dragged me across the street. Pit bulls and several other guard breeds have very strong jaws. K-9 dogs will also lock onto the person they are told to restrain.

 

[Anguille]

That's quite a tail, Angie. I'm surprised the cop didn't cite your owner for letting you run loose in the streets off your leash.

Seriously, though, if this guy can't even train his dog not to bark he really shouldn't own a dog, or at the very least, he should be made to leave his dog home while shopping.

Barking is a natural canine activity. If you think owner's whose dogs bark shouldn't have dogs, then you've just disqualified a majority of dog owners.

Nuisance barking is not good and the guy did promise never to leave his dog outside a store again. However nuisance is in the eye of the beholder. 9 out of ten times that my dog does the same thing, (and I can count on it if I spend more than 10 min in a store), people think she's cute and pet her and tell me how nice she is when I come out. They even think it's so adorable when she chews through her leash and prances on through the automatic doors at the supermarket to come find us. But if she was a pit bull instead of a spunky black mutt I'm sure you'd see people screaming and climbing up on the grocery shelves.
People can be such ignorant ninnies.

 

[Anguille]

I'm not advocating breed specific laws. I'm just saying a pit bull is more likely to rip your kid's face off than any other breed. And yes, there is ample empirical data to support this conclusion. But it's pretty clear this is one subject for which you are incapable of objectivity. I'll let it slide since at least where you're concerned, that's the exception rather than the rule.

Let's see that "ample empirical data' data then. I'd say you are the one incapable of objectivity in this case.

Oh and thanks for "letting it slide", dillhole!

 

[Ravi]

Barking is a natural canine activity. If you think owner's whose dogs bark shouldn't have dogs, then you've just disqualified a majority of dog owners.

Well, my friend, you've just lost your entire argument. Dogs can certainly be trained not to bark. I trained each dog I ever owned to be on its best behavior and not to bark or be a nuisance.

Of course this doesn't mean a dog will never revert to do what is a natural canine activity. Bark, attack, drool, wag it's tail...lol, pwned.

 

[manifold]

Let's see that "ample empirical data' data then. I'd say you are the one incapable of objectivity in this case.

Oh and thanks for "letting it slide", dillhole!

Seems to me the generally accepted wisdom is that pit bulls are more dangerous than other breeds. I'm not particularly motivated to prove to you that which is obvious to the reasonable, objective person. If you think this is a misperception, then I'd say the burden of proof is on you to prove it. I've seen you allude to several studies now by prominant governing bodies but not one single link.

Oh, and you're welcome.

 

[Anguille]

Allow me to paraphrase your best pal Soggy: Tell me again exactly how your personal experience qualifies as the universal standard?

And tell me again how anecdotal evidence and the article you linked to qualify as the universal standard.

The problem with fear mongering and pit bulls or whatever breed is the current object of hate is that it deters from educating the public about the real causes of dog related injury and death. Our laws protecting pets from abuse and neglect are way too lenient and that's what leads to situations of frustrated and angry dogs attacking people and other dogs, either unprovoked or provoked. People neglect to see how irresponsible we are towards pets and how often a dog is trying to protect himself in a situation where an adult or a child makes him feel threatened. People would rather blame the dogs for not fitting into our society exactly the way they want them to rather than see that they are expecting a dog to live up to standards that we know humans often can't even live up to.

The article you like to is tragic. The owners should have addressed the problem immediatly when their pets began showing aggressive behavior towards their baby.

But if you notice, we aren't given any information about how the animals were cared for or if they were neutered. But several paragraphs were devoted to some neighbor spouting off his opinions about how pit bulls rip kids to shreds and they should never be allowed near kids. who is that guy? What are his credentails? At the end of the article another attack is mention where two five year old boys were bitten by pit bulls, one in the face and the other on the leg? What are the chances that these boys may have been harrassing the dogs? We don't know because the article avoids that question.

Ninja says in his experience Shepherds and Rottweilers are to be trusted less with kids that pits. My own experience makes me more wary of an unneutered young dog of any breed, males especially. And any dog that has been left alone tied up and deprived of socialization and exercise is the kind of dog people must be the most cautious with.

 

[Anguille]

Well, my friend, you've just lost your entire argument. Dogs can certainly be trained not to bark. I trained each dog I ever owned to be on its best behavior and not to bark or be a nuisance.

Of course this doesn't mean a dog will never revert to do what is a natural canine activity. Bark, attack, drool, wag it's tail...lol, pwned.

You just contradicted your own self. I also trained my dog (and other dogs) not to bark at people when they aren't fast enough to her standards in throwing her tennis ball for her. It's all part of normal dog training. Some dogs bark more than others.

Doesn't mean they will never bark again in their lives. That guy had only owned his dog for 6 months. It probably had seperation anxiety and was still learning to trust he wasn't being abandoned. I suppose you think that dog was better euthanised than given a chance to adapt.

Sit up now, ravi, and I'll give you a Beggin' Strip. Good girl!

 

[dilloduck]

I'll buy you both parakeets if you stop arguing ~