Another Good Month On The Jobs Front...unemployment Drops To 5.9%

[Oldstyle]

You keep posting that drivel about "shadow banking", Dad and you keep avoiding answering my very simple question...

Surely after SIX YEARS in office, Barack Obama has a clearly defined plan to attack unemployment and create jobs? I mean he wouldn't be simply blaming the GOP when he doesn't have one...right? So tell me what the plan is...

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm starting to feel like I'm beating a little puppy here.

You rest up, Dad and try again tomorrow. I'd suggest bringing some liberal friends along to help you with the tough questions.

 

[asterism]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed. Both parties share the blame for that.

Shadow banking, overtook the traditional banking sector 2004-2007, they were going bust IF the Gov't didn't step up

The shadow banking system is a term for the collection of non-bank financial intermediaries that provide services similar to traditional commercial banks. Former Federal Reserve Chair Ben Bernanke provided a definition in April 2012: "Shadow banking, as usually defined, comprises a diverse set of institutions and markets that, collectively, carry out traditional banking functions--but do so outside, or in ways only loosely linked to, the traditional system of regulated depository institutions. Examples of important components of the shadow banking system include securitization vehicles, asset-backed commercial paper (ABCP) conduits, money market mutual funds, markets for repurchase agreements (repos), investment banks, and mortgage companies." Shadow banking has grown in importance to rival traditional depository banking and was a primary factor in the subprime mortgage crisis of 2007-2008 and global recession that followed.


Shadow banking system - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Lehman's demise also made it the largest victim, of the U.S. subprime mortgage-induced financial crisis that swept through global financial markets in 2008. Lehman's collapse was a seminal event that greatly intensified the 2008 crisis and contributed to the erosion of close to $10 trillion in market capitalization from global equity markets in October 2008, the biggest monthly decline on record at the time.

Case Study The Collapse of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Ok, and how has your choice alleviated any of that?

Obama Rewards Wall Street Again Thwarts Reform By Sacking Gensler - Forbes

 

[asterism]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

They never predicted that. You're an idiot.

Sure they did, it's right there in the chart. Are you saying the Obama Administration never made the claim I presented?

No, they PREDICTED IT with MANY disclaimers BEFORE the extent of Dubya's great recession was known. ARRA was passed in Feb 2009. The estimates were done end of Dec 2008 and beginning of 2009. The US economy contracted 9%_+ the last quarter, no one saw that coming!

The claim that Obama promised the stimulus would keep the unemployment rate below 8 percent has been a favorite talking point among Republicans....

PolitiFact has examined the statement repeatedly, each time rating it Mostly False.


But contrary to Cantor’s claim, the Romer-Bernstein report did not make promises about the unemployment rate. It made qualified projections.

Page 2 of the report states, "It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program.

"Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."


Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent PolitiFact Virginia

Obama's people made projections that were SO far off that it's laughable! It would be like you taking your car into the shop and the manager telling you that your problem was going to cost around $500 give or take and then hitting you with a bill for $1,000 and telling you that he didn't give you a promise of $500 but only an estimate of that.

2 UNFUNDED wars on false premises, 2 UNFUNDED tax cuts, UNFUNDED Medicare expansion, Dubya's home ownership society.

AGAINST OBAMA'S STIMULUS THAT OVER 90%+ OF THE ECONOMISTS SURVEYED, SAID HELP KEPT US OUT OF A DOUBLE DIP AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER GOP DEPRESSION? GROW UP. i'M DONE WITH YOU BUBBA

How can you say that when Obama's own crack team of experts projected a return to full employment without a stimulus? Were they incompetent?

 

[asterism]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed.

lol, SERIOUSLY? Do you NOT remember the fall of 2008, and the WORLD WIDE CRASH that the Banksters created with their shadow banking that Dubya cheered on?

Private Banksters CREATED a world wide credit bubble, they looked at short term profits ahead of their own firms best inters ts, grow a brain!

The parts of the economy that went belly up, were those NOT regulated, or where regulations existed, but were mainly ignored by Dubya's EXECUTIVE BRANCH OVERSIGHT!!!


FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


The biggest culprits in the housing fiasco came from the private sector, and more specifically from a mortgage industry that was out of control. These included lenders who originated home loans, investment bankers who packaged them into securities, rating agencies that misjudged these securities, and global investors who bought them without much, if any, study.

In other words, America’s mortgage securitization machine was fundamentally broken. It created millions of mortgage loans that, even under reasonable economic assumptions, stood little chance of being repaid — and were not.




Also to blame, of course, were regulators, who gave the private mortgage market little, if any, oversight. The market’s watchdogs were lulled to sleep by a misplaced view that self-interested private financial institutions would regulate themselves.

McCains 2008 economic adviser By Mark Zandi


Fannie and Freddie don t deserve blame for bubble - The Washington Post

You apparently missed the part where I said, "neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly." So when you quote an advisor of the losing team, I revert to my previous comment.

Obama and McCain are both frauds.

 

[asterism]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

They never predicted that. You're an idiot.

Sure they did, it's right there in the chart. Are you saying the Obama Administration never made the claim I presented?

No, they PREDICTED IT with MANY disclaimers BEFORE the extent of Dubya's great recession was known. ARRA was passed in Feb 2009. The estimates were done end of Dec 2008 and beginning of 2009. The US economy contracted 9%_+ the last quarter, no one saw that coming!

The claim that Obama promised the stimulus would keep the unemployment rate below 8 percent has been a favorite talking point among Republicans....

PolitiFact has examined the statement repeatedly, each time rating it Mostly False.


But contrary to Cantor’s claim, the Romer-Bernstein report did not make promises about the unemployment rate. It made qualified projections.

Page 2 of the report states, "It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program.

"Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."


Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent PolitiFact Virginia

They sold the idiots a plan and spent a considerable amount of resources and focus pushing the chart. They ended up being too clever for their own good, we would have been better off without their interventionalist methods.

 

[Dad2three]

The labor participation rate peaked under President Clinton.

So all you RWnuts obsessing on the labor participation rate have to concede that the best president in that regard would be to elect another Bill Clinton.

Clinton had a Republican Congress and an unprecedented boom in the dotcom bubble that went south shortly after he left office. Unlike Obama, Clinton paid attention to the Congress and negotiated and compromised.

Sure, must have been why GOPers shut doiwn the Gov't, TWICE and impeached Clinton

The economy was good, IN SPITE of GOP nonsense, AFTER Clinton's/Dems first surplus the GOP passed a $700+ billion tax cut Clinton had to veto to get 3 more, then Dubya came in and had 6 years of GOP Congress to fuck EVERYTHING up!

I don't think the current Republicans have the solution, but have you noticed the correlation of an increase in Republican representative political power under a Democratic President and an improving economy? Think about it.

Republicans took the House of Representatives in 1994 and then the dot-com boom fueled a huge growth spurt. Republicans took the House of Representatives in 2010 and the Great Recession bottomed out. Republican Presidents don't seem to have much of a sustaining force in growth and Republican Presidents with Republican Majorities in the House are just dangerous (boom and bust). But pure Democratic control doesn't work either (unless you think Obamacare has been great for the economy, in which case you are delusional). What do you think?

The hard part is figuring out the party from the person. Was Obama a good President? I don't think so. He was adequate. Was Bush a good President? I thought he was slightly better than adequate 5 years into his term and then things went sour. I think he got a lot of his job right but got a lot of it wrong.

We don't know how things are going to go on Obama's way out after a major party shift but I'm sure the partisans of the left are going to blame it on the November elections, just as the partisans on the right blame the November 2006 elections.

We saw what happened when the Republicans controlled the Presidency, House and Senate. We also saw what happened when the Democrats controlled those three. Neither were good.

"but have you noticed the correlation of an increase in Republican representative political power under a Democratic President and an improving economy? Think about it."

lol, SERIOUSLY? If you were HONEST, you'd recognize the effects of the stimulus and GOOD GOV'T policy instituted and steered by Obama. PLEASE give me ANYTHING the GOPers passed in Congress that could be tied to improving the economy? ALL they did was wack spending whjich slowed down the recovery, ALL to attempt to make Obama a 1 termer. Their 'austerity' failed EVERYWHERE it was tried!!!


Weird you REALLY can't be honest and understand how much Prez policy REALLY matters and how the GOP has hosed US for 30+ years

It's like conservatives arguing the GOP gave US the 4 surpluses under Clinton, even though they were a result of Clinton/Dems cutting almost $500 billion in spending and increasing taxes in 1993, where not a single GOPer voted for it. After Clinton's first surplus the GOP passed a $700+ billion tax cut that Clinton had to veto to get 3 more. Then Dubya came into office and we saw what happens!


GOP has went so far right, they are trying to 'starve the beast' and play up to the libertarians, which I assume you are one. That libertarian crap NEVER works ANYWHERE it's ever been tried, it's just myths and fairy tales!

Dubya adequate huh? I guess 2% growth over his first 7 years (Stopping end of 2007), allowing the US household debt to double with his cheering on the subprime Banksters, ignoring at least 19 warnings about 9/11, his 2 UNFUNDED wars (one on false premises), 2 UNFUNDED tax cuts DURING wars, UNFUNDED Medicare expansion then the biggest recession since Coolidge/Harding's depression. Yeah, I could see how you would see him as 'slightly better than adequate'

 

[Dad2three]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

They never predicted that. You're an idiot.

Sure they did, it's right there in the chart. Are you saying the Obama Administration never made the claim I presented?

No, they PREDICTED IT with MANY disclaimers BEFORE the extent of Dubya's great recession was known. ARRA was passed in Feb 2009. The estimates were done end of Dec 2008 and beginning of 2009. The US economy contracted 9%_+ the last quarter, no one saw that coming!

The claim that Obama promised the stimulus would keep the unemployment rate below 8 percent has been a favorite talking point among Republicans....

PolitiFact has examined the statement repeatedly, each time rating it Mostly False.


But contrary to Cantor’s claim, the Romer-Bernstein report did not make promises about the unemployment rate. It made qualified projections.

Page 2 of the report states, "It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program.

"Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."


Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent PolitiFact Virginia

They sold the idiots a plan and spent a considerable amount of resources and focus pushing the chart. They ended up being too clever for their own good, we would have been better off without their interventionalist methods.

Opinion

PLEASE give me ONE policy conservatives/libertarians have EVER been on the correct side of history on? Just one?

How are the states that follow the libertarian bullshit? Kansas or Wisconsin for example? lol

How about nations that tried the conservatives 'austerity'?

 

[Dad2three]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed.

lol, SERIOUSLY? Do you NOT remember the fall of 2008, and the WORLD WIDE CRASH that the Banksters created with their shadow banking that Dubya cheered on?

Private Banksters CREATED a world wide credit bubble, they looked at short term profits ahead of their own firms best inters ts, grow a brain!

The parts of the economy that went belly up, were those NOT regulated, or where regulations existed, but were mainly ignored by Dubya's EXECUTIVE BRANCH OVERSIGHT!!!


FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


The biggest culprits in the housing fiasco came from the private sector, and more specifically from a mortgage industry that was out of control. These included lenders who originated home loans, investment bankers who packaged them into securities, rating agencies that misjudged these securities, and global investors who bought them without much, if any, study.

In other words, America’s mortgage securitization machine was fundamentally broken. It created millions of mortgage loans that, even under reasonable economic assumptions, stood little chance of being repaid — and were not.




Also to blame, of course, were regulators, who gave the private mortgage market little, if any, oversight. The market’s watchdogs were lulled to sleep by a misplaced view that self-interested private financial institutions would regulate themselves.

McCains 2008 economic adviser By Mark Zandi


Fannie and Freddie don t deserve blame for bubble - The Washington Post

You apparently missed the part where I said, "neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly." So when you quote an advisor of the losing team, I revert to my previous comment.

Obama and McCain are both frauds.

Yes, Dubya/GOP dug a DEEP and wide hole and the GOP has been a disloyal o position party against US

 

[Dad2three]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed.

lol, SERIOUSLY? Do you NOT remember the fall of 2008, and the WORLD WIDE CRASH that the Banksters created with their shadow banking that Dubya cheered on?

Private Banksters CREATED a world wide credit bubble, they looked at short term profits ahead of their own firms best inters ts, grow a brain!

The parts of the economy that went belly up, were those NOT regulated, or where regulations existed, but were mainly ignored by Dubya's EXECUTIVE BRANCH OVERSIGHT!!!


FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


The biggest culprits in the housing fiasco came from the private sector, and more specifically from a mortgage industry that was out of control. These included lenders who originated home loans, investment bankers who packaged them into securities, rating agencies that misjudged these securities, and global investors who bought them without much, if any, study.

In other words, America’s mortgage securitization machine was fundamentally broken. It created millions of mortgage loans that, even under reasonable economic assumptions, stood little chance of being repaid — and were not.




Also to blame, of course, were regulators, who gave the private mortgage market little, if any, oversight. The market’s watchdogs were lulled to sleep by a misplaced view that self-interested private financial institutions would regulate themselves.

McCains 2008 economic adviser By Mark Zandi


Fannie and Freddie don t deserve blame for bubble - The Washington Post

You apparently missed the part where I said, "neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly." So when you quote an advisor of the losing team, I revert to my previous comment.

Obama and McCain are both frauds.

Banks used cheap capital to create a bubble. Their lending strategies fueled and fed off the housing bubble, and they did so using mortgage products whose performance was premised on continued growth of that bubble.


After 2004, the financial industry coalesced around high -risk mortgage lending as their primary cash crop. Subprime mortgages, which had been an effective if sometimes shady means of extending credit availability to under-served borrowers, suddenly became a foundation of 21st century financial capitalism. The complete collapse of the financial system and resulting recession have shown the folly of that strategy. What has saved the financial sector is the government takeover of the GSEs and the bailout of the rest of the banking system

Regulators and policymakers enabled this process at virtually every turn. Part of the reason they failed to understand the housing bubble was willful ignorance: they bought into the argument that the market would equilibrate itself. In particular, financial actors and regulatory officials both believed that secondary and tertiary markets could effectively control risk through pricing.


http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/tobinproject.org/files/assets/Fligstein_Catalyst of Disaster_0.pdf

 

[Dad2three]

They never predicted that. You're an idiot.

Sure they did, it's right there in the chart. Are you saying the Obama Administration never made the claim I presented?

No, they PREDICTED IT with MANY disclaimers BEFORE the extent of Dubya's great recession was known. ARRA was passed in Feb 2009. The estimates were done end of Dec 2008 and beginning of 2009. The US economy contracted 9%_+ the last quarter, no one saw that coming!

The claim that Obama promised the stimulus would keep the unemployment rate below 8 percent has been a favorite talking point among Republicans....

PolitiFact has examined the statement repeatedly, each time rating it Mostly False.


But contrary to Cantor’s claim, the Romer-Bernstein report did not make promises about the unemployment rate. It made qualified projections.

Page 2 of the report states, "It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program.

"Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."


Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent PolitiFact Virginia

Obama's people made projections that were SO far off that it's laughable! It would be like you taking your car into the shop and the manager telling you that your problem was going to cost around $500 give or take and then hitting you with a bill for $1,000 and telling you that he didn't give you a promise of $500 but only an estimate of that.

2 UNFUNDED wars on false premises, 2 UNFUNDED tax cuts, UNFUNDED Medicare expansion, Dubya's home ownership society.

AGAINST OBAMA'S STIMULUS THAT OVER 90%+ OF THE ECONOMISTS SURVEYED, SAID HELP KEPT US OUT OF A DOUBLE DIP AND POSSIBLY ANOTHER GOP DEPRESSION? GROW UP. i'M DONE WITH YOU BUBBA

How can you say that when Obama's own crack team of experts projected a return to full employment without a stimulus? Were they incompetent?

LINK? lol

 

[Dad2three]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed. Both parties share the blame for that.

Shadow banking, overtook the traditional banking sector 2004-2007, they were going bust IF the Gov't didn't step up

The shadow banking system is a term for the collection of non-bank financial intermediaries that provide services similar to traditional commercial banks. Former Federal Reserve Chair Ben Bernanke provided a definition in April 2012: "Shadow banking, as usually defined, comprises a diverse set of institutions and markets that, collectively, carry out traditional banking functions--but do so outside, or in ways only loosely linked to, the traditional system of regulated depository institutions. Examples of important components of the shadow banking system include securitization vehicles, asset-backed commercial paper (ABCP) conduits, money market mutual funds, markets for repurchase agreements (repos), investment banks, and mortgage companies." Shadow banking has grown in importance to rival traditional depository banking and was a primary factor in the subprime mortgage crisis of 2007-2008 and global recession that followed.


Shadow banking system - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



Lehman's demise also made it the largest victim, of the U.S. subprime mortgage-induced financial crisis that swept through global financial markets in 2008. Lehman's collapse was a seminal event that greatly intensified the 2008 crisis and contributed to the erosion of close to $10 trillion in market capitalization from global equity markets in October 2008, the biggest monthly decline on record at the time.

Case Study The Collapse of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers

Bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Ok, and how has your choice alleviated any of that?

Obama Rewards Wall Street Again Thwarts Reform By Sacking Gensler - Forbes

Gensler was a senior economic adviser to the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, 2008 and, after the Democratic Primary, the Obama campaign. He reviewed the Securities and Exchange Commission for the Obama transition team. Obama appointed Gensler to become Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.

During the Senate confirmation hearings two senators attempted to block his nomination. In March 2009, Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT)opposed Gensler, because he “had worked with Sen. Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan to exempt credit default swaps from regulation, which led to the collapse of AIG and has resulted in the largest taxpayer bailout in US history.” Sanders also accused Gensler of working to deregulate electronic energy trading, which led to the downfall of Enron, and of supporting the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999, which allowed American banks to become “too big to fail.

In early November, 2011, Gensler stepped aside from the CFTC's investigation of the giant derivatives broker MF Global because of his ties to Jon Corzine, CEO of MF Global, for whom he had worked while both were at Goldman Sachs. Yet in late November, 2011, Rep. Randy Neugebauer (R-Texas), head of the House Financial Services oversight subcommittee investigating MF Gloabal's collapse, noted that Corzine personally lobbied Gensler and his staff that year in opposition to a possible CFTC rule, that would have affected MF Global. Neugebauer asked Gensler why he didn't remove himself earlier from MF Global matters, so Corzine wouldn't have been able to lobby him

Gary Gensler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[asterism]

The labor participation rate peaked under President Clinton.

So all you RWnuts obsessing on the labor participation rate have to concede that the best president in that regard would be to elect another Bill Clinton.

Clinton had a Republican Congress and an unprecedented boom in the dotcom bubble that went south shortly after he left office. Unlike Obama, Clinton paid attention to the Congress and negotiated and compromised.

Sure, must have been why GOPers shut doiwn the Gov't, TWICE and impeached Clinton

The economy was good, IN SPITE of GOP nonsense, AFTER Clinton's/Dems first surplus the GOP passed a $700+ billion tax cut Clinton had to veto to get 3 more, then Dubya came in and had 6 years of GOP Congress to fuck EVERYTHING up!

I don't think the current Republicans have the solution, but have you noticed the correlation of an increase in Republican representative political power under a Democratic President and an improving economy? Think about it.

Republicans took the House of Representatives in 1994 and then the dot-com boom fueled a huge growth spurt. Republicans took the House of Representatives in 2010 and the Great Recession bottomed out. Republican Presidents don't seem to have much of a sustaining force in growth and Republican Presidents with Republican Majorities in the House are just dangerous (boom and bust). But pure Democratic control doesn't work either (unless you think Obamacare has been great for the economy, in which case you are delusional). What do you think?

The hard part is figuring out the party from the person. Was Obama a good President? I don't think so. He was adequate. Was Bush a good President? I thought he was slightly better than adequate 5 years into his term and then things went sour. I think he got a lot of his job right but got a lot of it wrong.

We don't know how things are going to go on Obama's way out after a major party shift but I'm sure the partisans of the left are going to blame it on the November elections, just as the partisans on the right blame the November 2006 elections.

We saw what happened when the Republicans controlled the Presidency, House and Senate. We also saw what happened when the Democrats controlled those three. Neither were good.

"but have you noticed the correlation of an increase in Republican representative political power under a Democratic President and an improving economy? Think about it."

lol, SERIOUSLY? If you were HONEST, you'd recognize the effects of the stimulus and GOOD GOV'T policy instituted and steered by Obama. PLEASE give me ANYTHING the GOPers passed in Congress that could be tied to improving the economy? ALL they did was wack spending whjich slowed down the recovery, ALL to attempt to make Obama a 1 termer. Their 'austerity' failed EVERYWHERE it was tried!!!

All I have to do is look at the results projected when there weren't any Republicans in power and the result of those policies.

Did it work?

No.

Weird you REALLY can't be honest and understand how much Prez policy REALLY matters and how the GOP has hosed US for 30+ years

I remember the dot-com boom and I remember Democrats calling Bob Dole delusional for predicting 15% GDP growth from it if government would just get out of the way and make it happen. I even remember Sen. Sam Nunn telling a whole room full of people that it was a funny inside joke in Washington when Clinton took credit for the boom he did nothing to create.

See that's the difference, I don't think it's a good idea to put the President in charge of the economy.

It's like conservatives arguing the GOP gave US the 4 surpluses under Clinton, even though they were a result of Clinton/Dems cutting almost $500 billion in spending and increasing taxes in 1993, where not a single GOPer voted for it. After Clinton's first surplus the GOP passed a $700+ billion tax cut that Clinton had to veto to get 3 more. Then Dubya came into office and we saw what happens!

I'm aware of partisans who think that it's a coincidence that the economy took off after the liberal big spenders got some temperance. That didn't work out in 2009-2010 when you folks had the House, Senate and the Presidency. It didn't work in 1993-1994 either.

Mind you, the short term expansion of the Republican trifecta in 2002-2007 didn't work either.

GOP has went so far right, they are trying to 'starve the beast' and play up to the libertarians, which I assume you are one. That libertarian crap NEVER works ANYWHERE it's ever been tried, it's just myths and fairy tales!

You just tipped your hand. You're playing last decade's game, the culture war. Good luck with that. Yes, I'm a Libertarian but I'm not a partisan. I won't be voting party over vision. Although with the current demographics you should be a little more savvy and encourage a right of center Libertarian to vote along party lines instead of trying to convince me to believe in your dreck.

Dubya adequate huh? I guess 2% growth over his first 7 years (Stopping end of 2007), allowing the US household debt to double with his cheering on the subprime Banksters, ignoring at least 19 warnings about 9/11, his 2 UNFUNDED wars (one on false premises), 2 UNFUNDED tax cuts DURING wars, UNFUNDED Medicare expansion then the biggest recession since Coolidge/Harding's depression. Yeah, I could see how you would see him as 'slightly better than adequate'

If your choice was anything close to Bush you wouldn't have to bring up all the talking points about how this isn't Obama's fault. If your choice and your movement had any substance you wouldn't have to excuse the lackluster "recovery" with all sorts of justifications about how the previous administration fucked things up (which coincidentally started with your party taking control of the House of Representatives).

You can blame Bush all you want, but your side promised results far beyond what your side has been able to deliver. At least there was a period of prosperity under Bush. Yes it was short-lived and yes it crashed (as markets tend to do from time to time) but there in so little prosperity under Obama that it's not even a promise by your side anymore. You have no plan and you have no results. You have "we're not as bad as the other guy."

A funny developement (in the cosmic sense) is that your side, the anti-war side, fucked up the withdrawal so much that we're going back into war in an election year! You folks are so anti-war but you lack the resolve to actually BE anti-war.

You folks are so grasping that literally everything wrong in the 6 years of your leader is the fault of Bush. It's almost like he's still in charge since your choice can't seem to get control. Not too shabby for the person you think is an idiot, huh? Maybe you folks on the far left just don't know how to govern.

 

[asterism]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

They never predicted that. You're an idiot.

Sure they did, it's right there in the chart. Are you saying the Obama Administration never made the claim I presented?

No, they PREDICTED IT with MANY disclaimers BEFORE the extent of Dubya's great recession was known. ARRA was passed in Feb 2009. The estimates were done end of Dec 2008 and beginning of 2009. The US economy contracted 9%_+ the last quarter, no one saw that coming!

The claim that Obama promised the stimulus would keep the unemployment rate below 8 percent has been a favorite talking point among Republicans....

PolitiFact has examined the statement repeatedly, each time rating it Mostly False.


But contrary to Cantor’s claim, the Romer-Bernstein report did not make promises about the unemployment rate. It made qualified projections.

Page 2 of the report states, "It should be understood that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error. There is the obvious uncertainty that comes from modeling a hypothetical package rather than the final legislation passed by the Congress. But, there is the more fundamental uncertainty that comes with any estimate of the effects of a program.

"Our estimates of economic relationships and rules of thumb are derived from historical experience and so will not apply exactly in any given episode. Furthermore, the uncertainty is surely higher than normal now because the current recession is unusual both in its fundamental causes and its severity."


Cantor says Obama promised the stimulus would keep unemployment under 8 percent PolitiFact Virginia

They sold the idiots a plan and spent a considerable amount of resources and focus pushing the chart. They ended up being too clever for their own good, we would have been better off without their interventionalist methods.

Opinion

PLEASE give me ONE policy conservatives/libertarians have EVER been on the correct side of history on? Just one?

How are the states that follow the libertarian bullshit? Kansas or Wisconsin for example? lol

How about nations that tried the conservatives 'austerity'?

You are incorrectly framing the question, for obvious reasons. Politics is not a "we won" situation, that much should be painfully obvious. Politics is the art of pushing an agenda for the long term regardless of which people are in control. The conservative position has been losing the ground game for a long time, so much that the liberal position has exacerbated the pain to justify the existence of the policies. You folks are no longer trying to create prosperity, you're now saying that things are so bad that society needs you to subsidize everyone.

Think about that for a minute, your side is no longer promising nor suggesting prosperity. Your side is pushing dependence and retribution. That's a far cry from the "green economy" from the Hope and Change speeches.

You can look at the planet, see no Conservative or LIbertarian success stories and think the Libertarian and Conservative ideas are failures. I look at the same situation and I see that the planet is not prospering and that there are not any Libertarian or Conservative regimes in any significant positions of power. Plus, I'm not a partisan. I don't think my ideas are so great that they have to be mandatory.

 

[asterism]

Still higher than Obama's team predicted without a stimulus.

http://www.ampo.org/assets/library/184_obama.pdf

You mean before the depth of the hole Dubya built was figured out? True

"It was worse than we thought" is a stupid argument. That's why it was stupid for anyone to predict prosperity under Obama. It was very clear the depth of the hole and it was very clear that neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly. That's why I think that less is more in government intervention.

The crash would not have happened if the bailouts had not been telegraphed.

lol, SERIOUSLY? Do you NOT remember the fall of 2008, and the WORLD WIDE CRASH that the Banksters created with their shadow banking that Dubya cheered on?

Private Banksters CREATED a world wide credit bubble, they looked at short term profits ahead of their own firms best inters ts, grow a brain!

The parts of the economy that went belly up, were those NOT regulated, or where regulations existed, but were mainly ignored by Dubya's EXECUTIVE BRANCH OVERSIGHT!!!


FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum


The biggest culprits in the housing fiasco came from the private sector, and more specifically from a mortgage industry that was out of control. These included lenders who originated home loans, investment bankers who packaged them into securities, rating agencies that misjudged these securities, and global investors who bought them without much, if any, study.

In other words, America’s mortgage securitization machine was fundamentally broken. It created millions of mortgage loans that, even under reasonable economic assumptions, stood little chance of being repaid — and were not.




Also to blame, of course, were regulators, who gave the private mortgage market little, if any, oversight. The market’s watchdogs were lulled to sleep by a misplaced view that self-interested private financial institutions would regulate themselves.

McCains 2008 economic adviser By Mark Zandi


Fannie and Freddie don t deserve blame for bubble - The Washington Post

You apparently missed the part where I said, "neither of the people running were going to be able to get us out quickly." So when you quote an advisor of the losing team, I revert to my previous comment.

Obama and McCain are both frauds.

Yes, Dubya/GOP dug a DEEP and wide hole and the GOP has been a disloyal o position party against US

Your choice dug a DEEP and wide hole too. Obamacare was even more unfunded than Medicare Part D.

 

[orogenicman]

All that chart shows me is a recovery from a recession that is just grinding along...which is exactly what we've gotten from a President who's probably the most clueless Chief Executive when it comes to economics that we've ever had.

Your conclusion assumes a president that got everything he wanted from a Republican party that has been hell bent for the last 6 years in NOT giving him anything. Try again.

 

[orogenicman]

What was he proposing right before he lost control of the House in 2010? Cap & Trade legislation that would have killed even more jobs!

Yes, YOUR guess, AND you Klowns said the same about the clean air, water, EPA, etc...

Since the EPA was something Nixon gave us that's about as stupid an argument as you've made yet!

Weird how the GOP fought it right?

Nixon created the EPA by executive order in 1970 as a sop to the anti-Vietanm war left — not because he thought an EPA was needed.

Nixon reassigned to the EPA the ongoing environmental protection activities of other federal agencies.

So Nixon’s move was little more than a cynical bureaucratic reshuffling done to facilitate his Vietnam policies — not some proud legacy of the Republican party.

Myth Nixon created the EPA to help the environment JunkScience.com

Where do you get this nonsense? Nixon couldn't have cared LESS about the anti-Vietnam war left! You get more and more idiotic with each post in this string!

And yet he promised them he would get us out of Vietnam, and he did.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

46% of college grads are underemployed at jobs that don't require a degree.

September employment numbers indicate 7.1 million are involuntarily working part-time for economic reasons (little change from a month ago)

Household income of American families is lower now, adjusted for inflation, than when efforts for a recovery began.

How exactly is the economy getting better?



sources:
College grads are underemployed but a degree is still worth it - Sep. 4 2014

Employment Situation Summary

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/2...about-economic-good-times.html?referrer=&_r=0

Glad you agree the 'job creators' aren't doing what they promised with their lowest SUSTAINED tax burden for 80+ years, time to get back to getting them to pay their fair share if they get less than half the effective tax rates they had 1in the 1940's and 1950's on 300%+ more share of the pie!!!
'

How does that have anything to do with families unable to get high paying career jobs, but are stuck in part time employment? College Graduates Are stuck with jobs that only require high school education, and you blame the fact corporations aren't paying enough in taxes. These results I previously stated are proof trickle up doesn't work, the stimulus failed to produce a robust economy, and you don't have the slightest clue about economic issues and job creation.

Wingnut, the stimulus had ONE purpose, to stop US from going into ANOTHER GOP great depression, it worked, though it was too small

Weird, how'd the US do with Dubya's UNFUNDED (cutting spending) tax cuts? Oh right, 8 years later the US had lost over 1,000,000+ PRIVATE sector jobs



Neo-Liberalism/Conservatives is/has destroyed the American Economy in favor of the so called "Job Creator"... In reality are "Job Exporters"...

The only reason the American economy is stalled is because the GOTP kicks the leg from under it, every time the economy begins to recover in the name of cutting the deficit

The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.


"Dynastic wealth, the enemy of a meritocracy, is on the rise. Equality of opportunity has been on the decline. A progressive and meaningful estate tax is needed to curb the movement of a democracy toward plutocracy." Warren Buffett

TARP kept the economy from going into another Great Depression...the Obama Stimulus simply spent nearly a trillion dollars taking care of Obama supporters like Public Sector Unions and "Green Energy" companies while it left the Private Sector twisting in the wind.

And if the stimulus REALLY "worked"...then why did the Obama Administration have to come up with a new measurement "jobs created or saved" instead of using the existing one that measured how many jobs were created? The answer to that is obvious! They spent ALL that money and didn't come close to creating the jobs they said they would. They resorted to the "jobs created or saved" scam to hide how badly the stimulus was at creating jobs.

CBO Director Demolishes GOP's Stimulus Myth

Under questioning from skeptical Republicans, the director of the nonpartisan (and widely respected) Congressional Budget Office was emphatic about the value of the 2009 stimulus. And, he said, the vast majority of economists agree.


In a survey conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, 80 percent of economic experts agreed that, because of the stimulus, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been otherwise.

Based on what data? I love how the left creates this "would have been" data that doesn't exist to try and justify this kind of wasted spending below.

$150 Million - for the SmithsonianMuseum. Are additional rooms really necessary at this time?
$75 Million - for "smoking cessation activities"
$25 million - for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
$200 Million - to fund the LEASE of alternative energy vehicles for the use on military installations. They are soldiers who march from building to building, and Michelle Obama has also held the need for MORE people to be physically fit.
$88 Million - for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Services. I wouldn't think of renovating my OWN house until I knew I could afford it
$160 Million - for "paid volunteers" ... at the Corporation for National and community Service If they are paid they are not volunteers, they are called employees.
$5.5 Million - for "energy efficiencyinitiatives" at the Department of Veteran Affairs National Cemetery Administration. Electric hearses?? .. or are we talking about electric lawn mowers here?

This is but a few areas of the kind of jobs and "much needed" spending was supposedly necessary to help improve the economy - lol

Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs

It's no surprise that the administration would proclaim its own policies a success. But its verdict is backed by economists at Goldman Sachs, IHS Global Insight, JPMorgan Chase and Macroeconomic Advisers, who say the stimulus boosted gross domestic product by 2.1% to 2.7%.

Economists agree Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs - USATODAY.com

NEXT TALKING POINT? LOL

​

Part time jobs and college grads working high school jobs, doesn't make a strong economy

 

[Theowl32]

Funny how the far left blasted Bush for having an unemployment rate of 4.6%. Yet praise Obama for numbers like 10.2, 9.6, 8.2, 6.9, and 5.9..

Who 'blasted' Dubya for 4.6 (even if he inherited 4%)? You mean WHY was it 4.6%? Oh right his PONZI scheme where he cheered the Banksters on. It was called a false economy

What was Dubya's final (Jan 2009) unemployment numbers? And who was responsible for the 4+ million jobs lost in Obama's first 9 months?

When Bush left office the unemployment rate was 7.8%. After the Obama Stimulus it went up to 10% and didn't come down below 9% for another TWO AND A HALF YEARS!!!

Well, the way to look at it, is the last time the republicans had majority power the unemployment rate was 4.6 percent.

Then the democrats took over the House and senate, and there was a democratic super majority in 2009. You see the unemployment rate during that time?

No?

Then republicans recaptured in the House in 2010.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

 

[Mac1958]

If we were to somehow, magically, mercifully flush the torrent of partisan bullshit out of this whole story, it would look something like this:

1. The economy suffered a massive jolt, and we were literally days from catastrophe. Point the finger of blame at whomever your ideology dictates.

2. The steps took to halt the meltdown and restore liquidity were pretty much the only available options, for the most part. Give credit for this to whomever your ideology dictates.

3. Obama is now President. We still have relative capitalism and relative free markets. With Obama in office, the addition of liquidity continues. The economy finally reaches its bottom and stabilizes. Because we have relative capitalism and relative free markets, the economy slowly does what it does naturally, slowly beginning the healing process and building momentum and adding strength to itself via velocity of money and markets. In other words, that's the way we roll. That's the power of "free" markets. Once the economy was stabilized, this was gonna happen. The only variable is how quickly.

4. Because the economy had been in such a shit hole and so many people were unemployed, employment growth figures look almost like a jobs boom, but all that is happening is a general, organic process of replacing the dead wood that was left as a result of the Meltdown. It's not as if employers are dancing the happy dance over the environment. Obama is in office and, as Presidents do, he gets credit for the numbers. Great.

Could the numbers have been better with someone else in office? Meh, I think so, but the question is irrelevant, it's nice to see improvement. And like a quarterback, the President generally gets too much credit for the good stuff and too much blame for the bad stuff. We're climbing out of the hole, the employment growth numbers look good as a function of the healing, let's hope for the best.

Okay, now, back to the standard partisan bullshittery.

.