Any Privacy Difference Between Nat. Voter Registry & Nat. Gun Registry?

[postman]

ms smith buys a gun for her drug dealer boyfried.

2 weeks later, calls cops, tells them the gun was stolen.

no charges against ms smith.

try again.

The cops go to ms smiths house to take a crime report. They ask where the gun was stored, how it was secured etc, and for proof of theft.

If there is no sign of breakin, or the gun was not in a locked safe, ms smith faces criminal charges.

 

[Norman]

Surely they can't believe that anyone is stupid enough to not catch the mistake in the argument?

Mistake? I see no error in the argument. I'm thinking it flew over your head! What to you see as the underlying thrust of the argument, Einstein? I'll give you a hint...HYPOCRISY!!!!

You must be an extremely dishonest individual. Eh, common in the hard left circles. No way can anyone be so moronic.

The difference is, this is information that the government already has and can't be used to violate anyone's gun rights.

 

[Auld Phart]

ms smith buys a gun for her drug dealer boyfried.

2 weeks later, calls cops, tells them the gun was stolen.

no charges against ms smith.

try again.

The cops go to ms smiths house to take a crime report. They ask where the gun was stored, how it was secured etc, and for proof of theft.

If there is no sign of breakin, or the gun was not in a locked safe, ms smith faces criminal charges.

No sign of break in?

Is that proof it didn't happen?

Gun not in a locked safe?

Is that Illegal?

Ms smith faces criminal charges.

unlikely

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

I believe a gun registry would cut down on straw purchases that lead to guns ending up in the hands of criminals . This is a major probleM in the us .

I agree and have understood that as one of the major gun issues for years.

National vote registry ? I don't see how this would really help wh voter fraud (which is not a big issue unlike guns). Elections are virtually all local .

I agree and see this only as a ploy to further the aims of voter intimidation and further promote the failed voter fraud pretense promoted by the far right fascist crowd.

What would the nat vote registry do exactly ?

Nothing at all but add to the propaganda mix for the tribal RIGHT! They learned the efficacy and usefulness of the 'Big Lie' many decades ago.

I started this thread simply to highlight the blatant hypocrisy of the right wing sheep decrying any hint of a LAWFUL federal gun registry to protect gun owners' privacy but turning to praise a national voter registry with would put private information of voters on display for anyone in the world to uncover easily. I see no difference between the two as far as privacy concerns go.

If Uncle Sugar can turn a gun registry against against the citizenry if it is placed in their hands for the purpose of confiscation of those weapons, why can't the very same be done to people of whom may become "undesirable"to say nothing about Constitutional individual privacy rights? The far right wing nationalists promoting this false narrative of voter fraud to pacify the wants and needs of the Narcissist-in-Chief would scream Holy Hell if their Constitutional Right to own firearms for various reasons were to be memorialized in a National Gun Registry. The bloody HYPOCRITES!

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

Surely they can't believe that anyone is stupid enough to not catch the mistake in the argument?

Mistake? I see no error in the argument. I'm thinking it flew over your head! What to you see as the underlying thrust of the argument, Einstein? I'll give you a hint...HYPOCRISY!!!!

You must be an extremely dishonest individual. Eh, common in the hard left circles. No way can anyone be so moronic.

The difference is, this is information that the government already has and can't be used to violate anyone's gun rights.

OH HORSESHIT you bloody fraud!

 

[whitehall]

The connection doesn't make sense. The intent of voter registration is to keep people from voting more than one time in different states or jurisdictions within the state. How does that logic translate to gun ownership?

 

[grainbely]

I believe a gun registry would cut down on straw purchases that lead to guns ending up in the hands of criminals . This is a major probleM in the us .

National vote registry ? I don't see how this would really help wh voter fraud (which is not a big issue unlike guns). Elections are virtually all local . What would the nat vote registry do exactly ?

I believe a gun registry would cut down on straw purchases that lead to guns ending up in the hands of criminals

How?

Guns are easy to traffic and abunant. A buyer hits many outlets adequately spaced so as not to get flagged. Then sells them privately off the record. Then if they ever come up in a crime, they can say it was stolen or sold privately if it gets trace back to the original buyer. The actual nefarious person could be the initial buyer or the private buyer. Once it's private, they can be run around the country fairly easily, but laws are so lax that they don't have to go that far. I bet Chicago's banned guns mostly come from neighboring cities and states. Ultimately they are sold on the "black market" to whoever wants it.

A gun registry would change this so there is no grey area on how the gun got from the store to the criminals hand and who was complicit in making it happen. Idk if it's necessary or I agree with it. If private sales were better regulated it might be enough to curb rampant abuse. They mostly arent at all though.

 

[postman]

The cops go to ms smiths house to take a crime report. They ask where the gun was stored, how it was secured etc, and for proof of theft.

If there is no sign of breakin, or the gun was not in a locked safe, ms smith faces criminal charges.

No sign of break in?
Is that proof it didn't happen?
Gun not in a locked safe?
Is that Illegal?
Ms smith faces criminal charges.
unlikely

In many states they have laws requiring unattended firearms be kept in some sort of locked safe, or have a trigger lock. As for sign of breakin. If the police don't find any signs of breakin, then ms smith had to invite the gun thief into her residence. So they would question ms smith for a list of possible suspects.

They would also ask for any and all paperwork she had on the firearm, and determine if she bought it legally. Any slipups, and ms smith faces criminal charges, include filing a false report, failure to secure a firearm, and so on.

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

The connection doesn't make sense. The intent of voter registration is to keep people from voting more than one time in different states or jurisdictions within the state. How does that logic translate to gun ownership?

Being stuck on stupid is a bitch for you, no doubt! OF COURSE you're blind to your faction's HYPOCRISY, and refuse to acknowledge any deviation of consistent application of ethical conduct, one to the other! Fucking cretin!

 

[Auld Phart]

The cops go to ms smiths house to take a crime report. They ask where the gun was stored, how it was secured etc, and for proof of theft.

If there is no sign of breakin, or the gun was not in a locked safe, ms smith faces criminal charges.

No sign of break in?
Is that proof it didn't happen?
Gun not in a locked safe?
Is that Illegal?
Ms smith faces criminal charges.
unlikely

In many states they have laws requiring unattended firearms be kept in some sort of locked safe, or have a trigger lock. As for sign of breakin. If the police don't find any signs of breakin, then ms smith had to invite the gun thief into her residence. So they would question ms smith for a list of possible suspects.

They would also ask for any and all paperwork she had on the firearm, and determine if she bought it legally. Any slipups, and ms smith faces criminal charges, include filing a false report, failure to secure a firearm, and so on.

In many states they have laws requiring unattended firearms be kept in some sort of locked safe,

Only Massachusetts

or have a trigger lo

Been my experience, all firearms come with a lock these days

If the police don't find any signs of breakin, then ms smith had to invite the gun thief into her residence. So they would question ms smith for a list of possible suspects.

 

[2aguy]

This brand new emphasis to stop any and all voter fraud across the nation by the Federal gov'mint gathering ALL State voter information and making that registry public just might be a solution to get rid of some of that type of lawless activity! Yes, if dealt with correctly and not used for nefarious purposes like voter suppression or intimidation, it could be a good thing to cleanup all of those dozens of voter fraud incidents every decade across the Nation!

That call for voter information got me to thinking if it might not be appropriate to do exactly the same for those gun owners out there to register all their various firearms, with all the data per weapon, location, rounds per weapon on hand, rounds fired per week, all licensing data, etc, etc, with the Federal gov,mint and make that National Gun Registry just as public and transparent as the National Voter Registry.

If a National Voter Registry can reduce the incidence of voter fraud just by being compiled and made public, then a National Gun Registry could reduce violent gun crime and death to innocent voters by being compiled and made public, too! Hey...same logic right? Imagine the lives that could be saved of voters walking to the polls in Chicago!

What could possibly go wrong with both of those plans being implemented?

Dipshit......all of the information on voters....is given to political parties for a fee....and to law enforcement when they request it......this attempt to block Trump's investigation into voter fraud is to hide the democrat voter fraud machine.....run by bob craemer and scot foval in the last election cycle....

 

[2aguy]

I believe a gun registry would cut down on straw purchases that lead to guns ending up in the hands of criminals . This is a major probleM in the us .

National vote registry ? I don't see how this would really help wh voter fraud (which is not a big issue unlike guns). Elections are virtually all local . What would the nat vote registry do exactly ?

And you don't know what you are talking about.....the only reason anti gun leaders want a registry is so that down the road, when they finally get the political muscle to ban guns, they will know who has them......that's it.

Do you guys realize that criminals do not have to register their illegal guns? By law? The Supreme Court Decision Haynes v. United States ruled that it violates their Right against self incrimination.

So how is a gun registry supposed to work when only people who don't break the law register their guns?

 

[2aguy]

I believe a gun registry would cut down on straw purchases that lead to guns ending up in the hands of criminals . This is a major probleM in the us .

National vote registry ? I don't see how this would really help wh voter fraud (which is not a big issue unlike guns). Elections are virtually all local . What would the nat vote registry do exactly ?

Quit falling down the well, any type of firearm registry is unconstitutional.

More frivolous gun laws have proven to be absolutely inept in violent crime prevention....

No it's not unconstitutional. It doesn't interfere with anyone's right to bear arms .

It's the gun nuts states lack of laws that pollute everyone else's attempts .

Yes...actually, it does....

It violates the 4th Amendment...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The 5th Amendment...this part....

nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself,

And of course, the 2nd Amendment.....

You do not have to register with the government to exercise a Right........

 

[postman]

In many states they have laws requiring unattended firearms be kept in some sort of locked safe,

Only Massachusetts

States with Firearm Laws Designed to Protect Children

California
Connecticut
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island.

Check again.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Treat guns like cars . The "title" follows the sale . Guns are born "legal".

When did the right to bear automobiles get amended into the Constitution?

 

[2aguy]

I believe a gun registry would cut down on straw purchases that lead to guns ending up in the hands of criminals . This is a major probleM in the us .

National vote registry ? I don't see how this would really help wh voter fraud (which is not a big issue unlike guns). Elections are virtually all local . What would the nat vote registry do exactly ?

I believe a gun registry would cut down on straw purchases that lead to guns ending up in the hands of criminals

How?

Treat guns like cars . The "title" follows the sale . Guns are born "legal". How do they end up in the hands of so many people who would come close to passing a background check?

If ms smith buys a gun for her drug dealer boyfriend , her name is on the title . He gets busted. Then she gets busted ! Less people will want to risk that.

She reports the gun stolen. Even if they catch her, prosecutors do not push those cases because juries don't want to put the baby momma in jail, especially after she says she only did it because the gang threatened to kill her if she didn't.

Most gun are stolen.....or bought through straw buyers....and are only in the hands of a criminal about 6 months before they are sold or traded......the average street life of an illegal gun is about 9 years........so you have no idea what you are talking about...

 

[Auld Phart]

In many states they have laws requiring unattended firearms be kept in some sort of locked safe,

Only Massachusetts

States with Firearm Laws Designed to Protect Children

California
Connecticut
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island.

Check again.

1. States Requiring that All Firearms be Stored with a Locking Device in Place:
Massachusetts is the only state that requires that all firearms be stored with a locking device in place. The state bars storing or keeping any firearm unless it is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device. This requirement does not apply to any firearm “carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.”

The District of Columbia has established a strong, yet non-binding, policy that each firearm registrant should keep any firearm in his or her possession unloaded and either disassembled or secured by a trigger lock, gun safe, locked box, or other secure device.35

Safe Storage & Gun Locks | Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence

 

[postman]

So how is a gun registry supposed to work when only people who don't break the law register their guns?

Guns do not start out being illegal. They become illegal when transferred to somebody who is not supposed to possess them.

By registering guns, and having to account for their disposal, you would know who the guns were transferred to, and then figure out if they had a legal right to possess them.

 

[2aguy]

In many states they have laws requiring unattended firearms be kept in some sort of locked safe,

Only Massachusetts

States with Firearm Laws Designed to Protect Children

California
Connecticut
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island.

Check again.

Mandatory storage laws are UnConstitutional as per the D.C. v. Heller decision...

Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional. B

Mandating it be kept in a safe is even more restrictive than a trigger lock...

 

[2aguy]

So how is a gun registry supposed to work when only people who don't break the law register their guns?

Guns do not start out being illegal. They become illegal when transferred to somebody who is not supposed to possess them.

By registering guns, and having to account for their disposal, you would know who the guns were transferred to, and then figure out if they had a legal right to possess them.

No...you wouldn't......the straw buyer reports them stolen......

And cops can already find out where the gun comes from by interrogating the criminal and using current police interrogation techniques...

The only reason to have gun registration is to ban guns at a later date.....

And Canada already tried to register guns...it was a complete failure...

Canada Tried Registering Long Guns -- And Gave Up

15 million guns.....1 billion dollars...and it didn't work....



The law passed and starting in 1998 Canadians were required to have a license to own firearms and register their weapons with the government. According to Canadian researcher (and gun enthusiast) Gary Mauser, the Canada Firearms Center quickly rose to 600 employees and the cost of the effort climbed past $600 million.

In 2002 Canada’s auditor general released a report saying initial cost estimates of $2 million (Canadian) had increased to $1 billion as the government tried to register the estimated 15 million guns owned by Canada’s 34 million residents.

The registry was plagued with complications like duplicate serial numbers and millions of incomplete records, Mauser reports. One person managed to register a soldering gun, demonstrating the lack of precise standards. And overshadowing the effort was the suspicion of misplaced effort: Pistols were used in 66% of gun homicides in 2011, yet they represent about 6% of the guns in Canada. Legal long guns were used in 11% of killings that year, according to Statistics Canada, while illegal weapons like sawed-off shotguns and machine guns, which by definition cannot be registered, were used in another 12%.

So the government was spending the bulk of its money — about $17 million of the Firearms Center’s $82 million annual budget — trying to register long guns when the statistics showed they weren’t the problem.

There was also the question of how registering guns was supposed to reduce crime and suicide in the first place. From 1997 to 2005, only 13% of the guns used in homicides were registered. Police studies in Canada estimated that 2-16% of guns used in crimes were stolen from legal owners and thus potentially in the registry. The bulk of the guns, Canadian officials concluded, were unregistered weapons imported illegally from the U.S. by criminal gangs.

Finally in 2011, conservatives led by Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted to abolish the long-gun registry and destroy all its records. Liberals argued the law had contributed to the decline in gun homicides since it was passed. But Mauser notes that gun homicides have actually been rising in recent years, from 151 in 1999 to 173 in 2009, as violent criminal gangs use guns in their drug turf wars and other disputes. As in the U.S., most gun homicides in Canada are committed by young males, many of them with criminal records. In the majority of homicides involving young males, the victim and the killer are know each other.