Arctic ice thins dramatically

[polarbear]

No, according to them history (well the only history that matters to them) began about 30 years ago. What happened before then is immaterial.

The sheer volume of mental masturbation required to believe that a trace gas in the atmosphere can drive the global climate staggers the mind.

That nails it EXACTLY what this GW occult is doing...also Westwall brought up an important point, as You did also.
All You have to do is look at the animals and plants that are on Greenland...the very name of that island says it all...and on Ellesmere Island there are not just polarbears.
We have a LOT OF WOLVES, and foxes, they eat A LOT OF ARCTIC HARE, and these rabbits they sure as shit are not meat eaters.
I posted pictures of these animals and muscox herds, they eat plants as well...but every time somebody posts something "OldRocks" does not want to see he buries it under 10 or more posts in a row, so that any such information is one or more pages back.
Most people who look into this forum don`t page back, but read forward.
Even a dumb bastard like "OldRocks" knows it from the "Friends Of the Earth" web section how to fuck up a forum which goes against their grain.
These animals, like the rabbits, they stay with us all through the brutal winter @ CFS Alert & Thule Air Force Base. You can walk right up to them and snap pictures.
I was interested what the hell these rabbits eat that time of the year..
Then I could see how they dig with their front paws and find roots under the sparse snow cover we have up there.
There are a lot of spots which have natural shelter from the winds which deposit snow much like a sandstorm deposits sand dunes in a desert..
And that`s where these plants grow...even though the air temperature is frigging cold, when the sun appears in the spring all the non transparaent and non reflective objects heat up...
Astronauts will tell You the same thing..It`s just a few degrees Kelvin on the side sunlight can`t reach, but objects the sun hits have to bee cooled.
Stand anywhere up inside the polar circle during the "summer" and one side of your face gets baked while you might freeze the ear off the other side of your head...
The snow that melts fast is the snow that gets blown over with the gray-ish brown sand/dust we have...then the sun hits it in the summer and of course thaws out the "dirty snow"...
"OldRocks" posted several times a link to one of these mental masturbators, as You call them...and they actually claimed, that that gray stuff was Diesel and engine soot from You guys down south...
This snow layer up there is a pretty complicated thing...something City engineers in Winnipeg & Minneapolis also have to struggle with , these eddies and stuff and what happens with blowing snow...
Sometimes that snow piles up more than 20 meters high in snow drifts and some of our buildings disappear...I was buried like that once for 2 days, in the power plant.
They asked me to lean on my pager button, so they could find me...then they drove a BV (=a tracked Vehicle...an unarmed "A"PC) over top of me, cut a hole through the powerplant roof and hoisted me out on a rope.
But none of that snow came from an arctic low...at the same time during this storm our Met Tech @ the runway reported "CAVOKay" (ceiling & visibility unlimited) above an altitude of ~ 500 feet....
And of course the mountains around us follow the same laws of aerodynamic principles as buildings. Entire areas are totally free of snow and always have been and on the lee side You get glaciers that are miles thick
and that`s the way it REALLY works with the climate up there...
Also these animals have been there when mankind still believed the earth is flat...
And Al Gore etc are still at that stage of ignorance about the arctic...
If any one here wants to see a shitload of pictures about the plants and animals around our Base, just say so...I`lll post them again...
The ones I posted here a couple of months ago all vanished.
Instead of photobucket I stored them with a German (lefty) newspaper, which offered subscribers a similar service.
They did not like my pictures and erased the entire batch...
I subscribe to "lefty" publications, because that`s my "radar" what these bastards are up to and then I lay out my "road side" information bombs accordingly

 

[konradv]

No, according to them history (well the only history that matters to them) began about 30 years ago. What happened before then is immaterial.

The sheer volume of mental masturbation required to believe that a trace gas in the atmosphere can drive the global climate staggers the mind.

It's well known that the earth would be much colder, if CO2 didn't exist. So what's so hard to understand that more would result in even more warming, despite the fact that it's a trace gas? If its absolute concentration was important, why would it contribute to warming at all? That's the problem with the deniers' positions. When looked at carefully, they just don't pass the logic test.

 

[westwall]

No, according to them history (well the only history that matters to them) began about 30 years ago. What happened before then is immaterial.

The sheer volume of mental masturbation required to believe that a trace gas in the atmosphere can drive the global climate staggers the mind.

It's well known that the earth would be much colder, if CO2 didn't exist. So what's so hard to understand that more would result in even more warming, despite the fact that it's a trace gas? If its absolute concentration was important, why would it contribute to warming at all? That's the problem with the deniers' positions. When looked at carefully, they just don't pass the logic test.

CO2 operates logarithmically. The first little bit big impact. Double it, not so much, double it again, negligible, double it again, nearly impossible to measure. That's your problem.
The alarmists try to make you believe it operates linearly but that has been proven false many times.

 

[polarbear]

No, according to them history (well the only history that matters to them) began about 30 years ago. What happened before then is immaterial.

The sheer volume of mental masturbation required to believe that a trace gas in the atmosphere can drive the global climate staggers the mind.

It's well known that the earth would be much colder, if CO2 didn't exist. So what's so hard to understand that more would result in even more warming, despite the fact that it's a trace gas? If its absolute concentration was important, why would it contribute to warming at all? That's the problem with the deniers' positions. When looked at carefully, they just don't pass the logic test.

What you and your virtual earth climate models have totally wrong is most apparent inside the polar circle.
Not a single plant would ever grow there if CO2 could trap a significant amount of IR...why don`t You look at REAL Spectrographic data form REAL SCIENTISTS...

The plants that grow inside the polar circle are able to exist because UNABATED solar radiation, especially the IR portion hits there 24 hours per day during the summer warming all non reflective objects...what is Your problem..understanding that...

If CO2 could trap IR at a magnitude as Your moron Computer models claim, the entire area inside the arctic circle would be a dome of death for all natural life that always was there...
Fuck I posted Spectral data here already...can`t You read?
Filter out the IR and there is less and less "heat" in solar radiation...even the window manufacturers know that and design window panes accordingly...
Have You ever been inside a climatology lab where they measure CO2 in the atmosphere, of course you have not...
I spent a lot of time inside the arctic lab which happens to be right on the CFS Alert Base...You can`t even measure CO2 at the levels it is in our atmosphere with an Infrared Spectrograph...we have to use Gaschromathography with Ni63 Electron Capture detectors to measure it..!
Fuck are You assholes ignorant...
I posted pictures of these labs and what it looks like inside, + all the instruments on the benches, + the one narrow little band where CO2 does absorb IR...and all the other IR goes right by CO2 as if it does not even exist...the analogy is, it "catches" as much infrared as a wire can catch rain...
So why don`t You stand under a hydro wire during a rainstorm and see if You can stay dry...?
Water vapor is an entirely different matter it absorbs so much IR over the entire range, not in little discrete spectral bands but as a total block out...


Talking about CO2 and infrared absorption and none of you have a clue what an IR spectrophotometer even looks like, never mind how to operate one and interpret the read out
I`m a chemical engineer first @ a Military engineer second...as a chemical engineer I have done countless of THOUSANDS IR Analysis.
NOBODY in their right mind would even try to do a QUANTITATIVE ANALYSIS OF CO2 using Infrared Absorption....
Not just because the absorption (= NOT THE SAME as the ARTIFICIAL ABSORBANCE as Beer Lambert`s law) can`t even be measured @ these low levels, but the slightest amount of relative humidity would falsify Your results by a factor of > 100 times too high...

Fuck are You assholes ever stupid and ignorant...

 

[Uncensored2008]

It's well known that the earth would be much colder, if CO2 didn't exist.

Is it your contention that the earth would be colder without an atmosphere?

 

[konradv]

It's well known that the earth would be much colder, if CO2 didn't exist.

Is it your contention that the earth would be colder without an atmosphere?

I made no such contention, whatsoever. Where did you come up with that goofy thought? Typical of the deniers, though, to try and sidetrack the debate by bringing up irrelevancies!!! My contention is exactly what I said, no CO2, lower temps. If you have trouble understanding that and the known properties of CO2, perhaps you have no business posting to this thread.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I made no such contention, whatsoever.

I was just asking.

Where did you come up with that goofy thought?

You are clearly ignorant, I was just curious how deep your ignorance runs.

Algore Akbar, huh?

 

[konradv]

I made no such contention, whatsoever.

I was just asking.

Where did you come up with that goofy thought?

You are clearly ignorant, I was just curious how deep your ignorance runs.

Algore Akbar, huh?

You just proved you don't have a clue!!! People that know the topic discuss it. Those that don't talk about Gore. So you were just asking. So what? What was the point, except to deflect attention from your own ignorance

 

[polarbear]

It's well known that the earth would be much colder, if CO2 didn't exist.

Is it your contention that the earth would be colder without an atmosphere?

What kind of a dumb ass question is that....???
Let me ask you one...:
are You one of those stupid people that believe that Mars is so hot because the atmosphere there is almost entirely CO2...?

Mars would be that hot, regardless what kind of gas is around it, even if it were Hydrogen Gas...it`s the absence of water that makes Mars hot...
GEEEEZUZ...what`s the matter with you wanna be scientists? Don`t You know anything about heat enthalpy?...specific heat (energy in Joules), of evaporation...? or just plain "specific heat"...like how many calories does it take to heat a specific substance by 1 degree...?

Lets start with this moronic "experiment" that "proved" that inside a plexiglass dome the "climate model" heated up quicker the more CO2 was inside this childish experiment.

Whatever IR strikes inside the dome,...all solid objects of course warm up...nevermind if there is any gas in the dome or not...
Then as You replace the air inside the dome with more and more CO2 You will jump for joy noticing that the temperature inside the dome climbs quicker...
and Your balloon of joy would be deflated just as quickly, had You bothered to look into any Physics book, because there You would find that it takes WAY LESS CALORIES to raise CO2 gas by 1 degree than Nitrogen & Oxygen, the chief constituents of our atmosphere...
and You ask ME, if I believe

Is it your contention that the earth would be colder without an atmosphere?

Man You did not just miss the boat, You are centuries behind...!!!

By the way, it`s not just "my contention"...there was an entire delegation of renowned Physisists & Chemists from around the world telling the U.S. Congress the same thing I have been telling You just now in this post and the post just before it...

Of course Googling for nothing but "Global Warming Evidence + CO2" You will never find out about it....and that`s why people like that stay stupid and ignorant

Google some using "Dr. Heinz Hug et al" and You will find out what the rest of the REAL SCIENTISTS have to say about this Michael Mann`s fantasy world

 

[percysunshine]

No, according to them history (well the only history that matters to them) began about 30 years ago. What happened before then is immaterial.

The sheer volume of mental masturbation required to believe that a trace gas in the atmosphere can drive the global climate staggers the mind.

It's well known that the earth would be much colder, if CO2 didn't exist.

The plants would all be pissed off to.

Water vapor is the dominant global warming gas.

BTW, from a geologic perspective, we currently live in an historic global sea level highstand. Catastrophy will be when the earth cools again, and sea level drops. Malibu will slide into the Pacific ocean and become a northeastern suburb of Hilo Hawaii.

 

[konradv]

It's well known that the earth would be much colder, if CO2 didn't exist.

Is it your contention that the earth would be colder without an atmosphere?

What kind of a dumb ass question is that....???
Let me ask you one...:
are You one of those stupid people that believe that Mars is so hot because the atmosphere there is almost entirely CO2...?

Mars would be that hot, regardless what kind of gas is around it, even if it were Hydrogen Gas...it`s the absence of water that makes Mars hot...
GEEEEZUZ...what`s the matter with you wanna be scientists? Don`t You know anything about heat enthalpy?...specific heat (energy in Joules), of evaporation...? or just plain "specific heat"...like how many calories does it take to heat a specific substance by 1 degree...?

Lets start with this moronic "experiment" that "proved" that inside a plexiglass dome the "climate model" heated up quicker the more CO2 was inside this childish experiment.

Whatever IR strikes inside the dome,...all solid objects of course warm up...nevermind if there is any gas in the dome or not...
Then as You replace the air inside the dome with more and more CO2 You will jump for joy noticing that the temperature inside the dome climbs quicker...
and Your balloon of joy would be deflated just as quickly, had You bothered to look into any Physics book, because there You would find that it takes WAY LESS CALORIES to raise CO2 gas by 1 degree than Nitrogen & Oxygen, the chief constituents of our atmosphere...
and You ask ME, if I believe

Is it your contention that the earth would be colder without an atmosphere?

Man You did not just miss the boat, You are centuries behind...!!!

By the way, it`s not just "my contention"...there was an entire delegation of renowned Physisists & Chemists from around the world telling the U.S. Congress the same thing I have been telling You just now in this post and the post just before it...

Of course Googling for nothing but "Global Warming Evidence + CO2" You will never find out about it....and that`s why people like that stay stupid and ignorant

Google some using "Dr. Heinz Hug et al" and You will find out what the rest of the REAL SCIENTISTS have to say about this Michael Mann`s fantasy world

Nice post!!! The trouble is MARS IS NOT HOT!!! Shame you had to waste all that time posting total trash that could be debunked with no effort whatsoever.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You just proved you don't have a clue!!! People that know the topic discuss it.

I don't "debate" or "discuss" the finer points of the AGW religion with cultists.

I mock you. It's all you're worthy of. Tom Cruise has Scientology, you have AGW. Both claim a relationship to science, neither has an actual relationship to science.

 

[percysunshine]

Polar bears eat baby seals.

 

[konradv]

You just proved you don't have a clue!!! People that know the topic discuss it.

I don't "debate" or "discuss" the finer points of the AGW religion with cultists.

I mock you. It's all you're worthy of. Tom Cruise has Scientology, you have AGW. Both claim a relationship to science, neither has an actual relationship to science.

What a wuss!!! Can't stand the heat, so you have to hide behind a "religion" jibe?!?! What do you know of science? You certainly haven't shown it. Your denials are politically motivated and have no relation to true science or logic.

 

[percysunshine]

Google some using "Dr. Heinz Hug et al" and You will find out what the rest of the REAL SCIENTISTS have to say about this Michael Mann`s fantasy world

Michael Mann's fantasy world probably involves naked animals with hockey sticks....let's don't go there

 

[Uncensored2008]

What kind of a dumb ass question is that....???

Are you sure you meant to address this to me?

Let me ask you one...:
are You one of those stupid people that believe that Mars is so hot because the atmosphere there is almost entirely CO2...?

Uh, no.

Mars would be that hot, regardless what kind of gas is around it, even if it were Hydrogen Gas...it`s the absence of water that makes Mars hot...

What is the primary component of so-called "Green House Gas" again?

Lets start with this moronic "experiment" that "proved" that inside a plexiglass dome the "climate model" heated up quicker the more CO2 was inside this childish experiment.

There is no Plexiglas bubble around the Earth, just the void of space. There is no vent for convection. The Earth is not a greenhouse and doesn't behave like one.

Man You did not just miss the boat, You are centuries behind...!!!

You are mistaken.

The Atmosphere of Earth reflects a great deal of inbound radiation. Without our atmosphere, the planet would be magnitudes hotter while facing the sun.

Google some using "Dr. Heinz Hug et al" and You will find out what the rest of the REAL SCIENTISTS have to say about this Michael Mann`s fantasy world

Michael Mann is a charlatan, a fraud.

 

[percysunshine]

I think polar bear needs a nap. He mistook Unc for a global warminist.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I think polar bear needs a nap. He mistook Unc for a global warminist.

I'm SURE that's the first time that has ever happened...

 

[polarbear]

You just proved you don't have a clue!!! People that know the topic discuss it.

I don't "debate" or "discuss" the finer points of the AGW religion with cultists.

I mock you. It's all you're worthy of. Tom Cruise has Scientology, you have AGW. Both claim a relationship to science, neither has an actual relationship to science.

What a wuss!!! Can't stand the heat, so you have to hide behind a "religion" jibe?!?! What do you know of science? You certainly haven't shown it. Your denials are politically motivated and have no relation to true science or logic.

Yes I do get impatient with idiots like him, because I`m tired to explain all that CO2 crap over and over again. In my time off duty I also helped out as an adjunct professor, faculties Chemistry & Physical Chemistry, especially in the field of spectroscopy @ some Universities in Canada AND THE U.S.
People like that would have flown head first out of the lecture room...and that`s why I don`t work that field for a living and preferred the military where You get to ream out assholes like that...

By the way here is a good summary of how what works in a CO2 atmosphere, like that on Mars...: click here...>;
http://www.earthsci.unimelb.edu.au/mars/Carbon_Dioxide.html]CO2 on Mars[/COLOR]
CO2 on Mars
a little further down the article You`ll find...:

At low temperatures, a joint CO2-H2O ice is formed. This has a different crystal structure than normal ice which has hexagonal crystals (remember the shapes of snowflakes?). CO2 clathrate has an open latticework formed by 44 water molecules which have spaces that trap up to 8 CO2 molecules in small 'cages' within the lattice. We would expect that the polecaps of Mars would contain quite a lot of clathrate, since both CO2 and water molecules are present and clathrate is the preferred form rather than separate ices. Unfortunately, the Mars Polar Lander that would have answered questions like this was lost during re-entry to Mars and scientists will have to wait several years before a new mission can be mounted to replace it.

If anybody wants to know what a clathrate is,and not just what "Wikipedia" says it is, I`ll explain it,....I promise I won`t get impatient...I wrote 2 patents on Clathrates...:

After that every Jim Dick and Harry started to apply for Clathrate Patents...
Actually these Patents are not my property, but that was part of my job I did for the U.S. Naval department. Clathrates are used in high powered chemical lasers...

So, I guess when it comes to Chemistry & Physics I do know a little bit more than "OldRocks" et al or Al Gore....

And Spectroscopy & Infrared just happens to be my area of expertise....and that had a lot to do with why the U.S. + Canadian Military got interested in me and offered me an unusually interesting position...I took `m up on it and asked from the start, that I wanted to be stationed as much as possible in the arctic, because I absolutely love it up there...
Number 1 reason was I wanted to be as far away as can be from stupid idiots, and the arctic does and will kill stupid people in short order...

Now I`m retired and decided the best way to insulate myself from the stupid decisions politicians make was to live on the Indian Reservation my wife (for ~40) years is from...

One of my hobbies is to torment assholes like "OldRocks" ...but I don`t really want to spend more than 1/2 hour every other day doing that...I prefer REAL LIFE in the REAL WORLD...
So today FINALLY some snow and ice melted in my Yard and I`ll be able to pry out my riding lawnmower which got trapped there since last October and get it ready to spew CO2 when spring finally will arrive...

I`ll come back here once in a while just to amuse myself reading what`s being posted here, but won`t have a lot of time to write postings...
Have fun You Guys
and Bye for now...take care Bernard" and greetings to You`all from Bernhard aka Polarbear

 

[percysunshine]

Canadian Military?

Karlvasa? Is that you?