Are atheists materialists?

[ding]

Ask an atheist if he or she believes that man as a collective has a spiritual nature. That's where you really have to start.

Good thread, though. Could really expand in. Maybe you guys already did, I dunno, I just skimmed through the thread.

It could be if people would stop taking it personal.

It could have been an excellent discussion, if people would stop trying to redefine the meaning of the word "atheist" or lying about what was said to further their argument.

But there are so many kinds of atheism. It’s best to define and hopefully agree to a term’s meaning at the beginning of any discussion. (as Ayn Rand of all people warned)

There is no logical case for the middle ground.

Whether you see a logical case for middle ground, or even that there is any middle ground is irrelevant.

I have provided you with two sources for my definition of "atheist". I fit the definition.

There is no logical case for the middle ground. You are deluding yourself.

 

[Karl Rand]

I posted the Merriam Webster definition early in the discussion.

The Oxford English dictionary provides the same definition.
from: atheist | Definition of atheist in English by Oxford Dictionaries
"A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."

I challenged ding to provide a link to another definition, but he did not.

I do not believe in any god or deity. Therefore I am, by definition, an atheist.

Fare enough but did Ding or others agree with the definition before getting involved?

 

[WinterBorn]

Ask an atheist if he or she believes that man as a collective has a spiritual nature. That's where you really have to start.

Good thread, though. Could really expand in. Maybe you guys already did, I dunno, I just skimmed through the thread.

It could be if people would stop taking it personal.

It could have been an excellent discussion, if people would stop trying to redefine the meaning of the word "atheist" or lying about what was said to further their argument.

But there are so many kinds of atheism. It’s best to define and hopefully agree to a term’s meaning at the beginning of any discussion. (as Ayn Rand of all people warned)

I posted the Merriam Webster definition early in the discussion.

The Oxford English dictionary provides the same definition.
from: atheist | Definition of atheist in English by Oxford Dictionaries
"A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."

I challenged ding to provide a link to another definition, but he did not.

I do not believe in any god or deity. Therefore I am, by definition, an atheist.

And that’s all that matters to you.

Not at all. But that seems to be what matters to you. You have continually asked others whether I am an atheist. You have continually tried to call me a materialist or a naturalist, despite the fact that I fit the definition of an atheist quite well.

 

[WinterBorn]

I posted the Merriam Webster definition early in the discussion.

The Oxford English dictionary provides the same definition.
from: atheist | Definition of atheist in English by Oxford Dictionaries
"A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."

I challenged ding to provide a link to another definition, but he did not.

I do not believe in any god or deity. Therefore I am, by definition, an atheist.

Fare enough but did Ding or others agree with the definition before getting involved?

I think ding said something about it not being a complete definition or maybe that it wasn't a good definition. But, despite my asking for one, he never offered another definition himself.

 

[ding]

It could be if people would stop taking it personal.

It could have been an excellent discussion, if people would stop trying to redefine the meaning of the word "atheist" or lying about what was said to further their argument.

But there are so many kinds of atheism. It’s best to define and hopefully agree to a term’s meaning at the beginning of any discussion. (as Ayn Rand of all people warned)

I posted the Merriam Webster definition early in the discussion.

The Oxford English dictionary provides the same definition.
from: atheist | Definition of atheist in English by Oxford Dictionaries
"A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."

I challenged ding to provide a link to another definition, but he did not.

I do not believe in any god or deity. Therefore I am, by definition, an atheist.

And that’s all that matters to you.

Not at all. But that seems to be what matters to you. You have continually asked others whether I am an atheist. You have continually tried to call me a materialist or a naturalist, despite the fact that I fit the definition of an atheist quite well.

An atheist who believes in spirits.

 

[edthecynic]

I believe that if one believes that there is a mover of their soul which animates their soul they are not atheists.

Music moves my soul and I know there was no music before the composer physically existed and even after the composer is physically gone the music still moves my soul.
So please explain to me exactly why I can't be an Atheist!

You have a soul? Tell me about it?

I already told you about it, but talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. I told you your soul is all the works and deeds you do in a lifetime that will live on after your physical existence is gone. I even pointed out that as a result of our interaction on this board, my soul will live inside of you and there is nothing you can do about it!

See since I actually did already tell you, I can remind you what I said, but when you claim to have already said something you can never repeat it because you never said it in the first place!

 

[edthecynic]

Because I think it is illogical for people who don't believe in a God to believe in a life force that is a spirit that animates their soul?

Consider this, believers in God have PERSONIFIED the spiritual, whereas believers in a life force have not.

Incorrect.

Which means it IS correct!

 

[WinterBorn]

It could be if people would stop taking it personal.

It could have been an excellent discussion, if people would stop trying to redefine the meaning of the word "atheist" or lying about what was said to further their argument.

But there are so many kinds of atheism. It’s best to define and hopefully agree to a term’s meaning at the beginning of any discussion. (as Ayn Rand of all people warned)

There is no logical case for the middle ground.

Whether you see a logical case for middle ground, or even that there is any middle ground is irrelevant.

I have provided you with two sources for my definition of "atheist". I fit the definition.

There is no logical case for the middle ground. You are deluding yourself.

Not at all. The incorporeal things could be natural. We may not yet have developed a way to study them. I make no judgements on what they are or of their origins.

 

[edthecynic]

Logic requires the solution to the first cause conundrum to be eternal and unchanging.

And that is ENERGY.

Nope. It can not be a thing. It can only be no thing.

From no thing, no thing comes!

 

[WinterBorn]

It could have been an excellent discussion, if people would stop trying to redefine the meaning of the word "atheist" or lying about what was said to further their argument.

But there are so many kinds of atheism. It’s best to define and hopefully agree to a term’s meaning at the beginning of any discussion. (as Ayn Rand of all people warned)

I posted the Merriam Webster definition early in the discussion.

The Oxford English dictionary provides the same definition.
from: atheist | Definition of atheist in English by Oxford Dictionaries
"A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."

I challenged ding to provide a link to another definition, but he did not.

I do not believe in any god or deity. Therefore I am, by definition, an atheist.

And that’s all that matters to you.

Not at all. But that seems to be what matters to you. You have continually asked others whether I am an atheist. You have continually tried to call me a materialist or a naturalist, despite the fact that I fit the definition of an atheist quite well.

An atheist who believes in spirits.

An atheist who believes in incorporeal things. You defined them as spirits, not me.

You really are a dishonest sort of debater, aren't you?

 

[edthecynic]

Where does that consciousness come from?

Physical awareness.

Then you are a materialist like WB.

No, In am an Existentialist.
How many times do you have to be told before it sinks into your thick head?

 

[ding]

I believe that if one believes that there is a mover of their soul which animates their soul they are not atheists.

Music moves my soul and I know there was no music before the composer physically existed and even after the composer is physically gone the music still moves my soul.
So please explain to me exactly why I can't be an Atheist!

You have a soul? Tell me about it?

I already told you about it, but talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. I told you your soul is all the works and deeds you do in a lifetime that will live on after your physical existence is gone. I even pointed out that as a result of our interaction on this board, my soul will live inside of you and there is nothing you can do about it!

See since I actually did already tell you, I can remind you what I said, but when you claim to have already said something you can never repeat it because you never said it in the first place!

Eventually the sun will supernova and engulf the earth and fling everything into space. Will your soul live then? When every living thing is incinerated?

 

[WinterBorn]

Where does that consciousness come from?

Physical awareness.

Then you are a materialist like WB.

No, In am an Existentialist.
How many times do you have to be told before it sinks into your thick head?

Don't you know? ding gets to decide who and what we are.

 

[edthecynic]

Your beliefs that you are an atheist who believes in a life force are illogical. That is what you are confused about. Those concepts are mutually exclusive. All you have done is substitute a different word for God. Probably because you recoil from the consequences of your own beliefs.

Just as you have substituted God for Energy. So you also recoil from the consequences of your own beliefs.

God is no thing.

And therefore no thing comes from God.

 

[ding]

But there are so many kinds of atheism. It’s best to define and hopefully agree to a term’s meaning at the beginning of any discussion. (as Ayn Rand of all people warned)

I posted the Merriam Webster definition early in the discussion.

The Oxford English dictionary provides the same definition.
from: atheist | Definition of atheist in English by Oxford Dictionaries
"A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."

I challenged ding to provide a link to another definition, but he did not.

I do not believe in any god or deity. Therefore I am, by definition, an atheist.

And that’s all that matters to you.

Not at all. But that seems to be what matters to you. You have continually asked others whether I am an atheist. You have continually tried to call me a materialist or a naturalist, despite the fact that I fit the definition of an atheist quite well.

An atheist who believes in spirits.

An atheist who believes in incorporeal things. You defined them as spirits, not me.

You really are a dishonest sort of debater, aren't you?

What would you call incorporeal things which did not originate from corporeal things, WB?

 

[ding]

Your beliefs that you are an atheist who believes in a life force are illogical. That is what you are confused about. Those concepts are mutually exclusive. All you have done is substitute a different word for God. Probably because you recoil from the consequences of your own beliefs.

Just as you have substituted God for Energy. So you also recoil from the consequences of your own beliefs.

God is no thing.

And therefore no thing comes from God.

No it means God is not matter. God is spirit. God is consciousness.

 

[denmark]

Some believe that their “soul” is their personality, which develops from and is driven by biological energy.

Right. They would be considered materialists or naturalists.

And a materialist/naturalist is not necessarily a “hard atheist” who believes there is no God or supernatural force.
An agnostic can be considered a “soft atheist” who simply is not a theist.

And Facebook has like 56 gender options.

I think people are uncomfortable with their atheism and need to feel like they are more than what the logical conclusion of their beliefs mean.

Such as love is nothing more than an electrochemical reaction in the brain as a result of evolution.

You are oversimplifying the “love” emotion(s).
Why? Ignorance of scientific psychology?

I’m not. I am starting from the two positions. Matter was created by spirit. Or spirit was created by matter. There is no middle ground.

One can have lots of empathy, believe in the golden rule and “love”, AND not be a theist who believes there is a “soul” separate from matter.

 

[ding]

Where does that consciousness come from?

Physical awareness.

Then you are a materialist like WB.

No, In am an Existentialist.
How many times do you have to be told before it sinks into your thick head?

Don't you know? ding gets to decide who and what we are.

There you go again taking things personal.

 

[WinterBorn]

I posted the Merriam Webster definition early in the discussion.

The Oxford English dictionary provides the same definition.
from: atheist | Definition of atheist in English by Oxford Dictionaries
"A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods."

I challenged ding to provide a link to another definition, but he did not.

I do not believe in any god or deity. Therefore I am, by definition, an atheist.

And that’s all that matters to you.

Not at all. But that seems to be what matters to you. You have continually asked others whether I am an atheist. You have continually tried to call me a materialist or a naturalist, despite the fact that I fit the definition of an atheist quite well.

An atheist who believes in spirits.

An atheist who believes in incorporeal things. You defined them as spirits, not me.

You really are a dishonest sort of debater, aren't you?

What would you call incorporeal things which did not originate from corporeal things, WB?

How about "incorporeal things which did not originate from corporeal things"? Saves you trying to say I believe in a soul that is animated by a mover, or some such nonsense.

 

[WinterBorn]

Where does that consciousness come from?

Physical awareness.

Then you are a materialist like WB.

No, In am an Existentialist.
How many times do you have to be told before it sinks into your thick head?

Don't you know? ding gets to decide who and what we are.

There you go again taking things personal.

Its called a joke, son. At your expense, but still a joke.