Are atheists materialists?

[WinterBorn]

I believe it exists.

Why?

Because I believe. And that answer is as valid as your answer of "I can prove it to myself, but I cannot prove it to you" when asked for proof of the existence of God.

So you don't know where the life force resides.

You don't know how you know it doesn't originate from the corporeal.

But you know it doesn't originate from the corporeal.

You don't know why you believe it exists.

You just believe it exists, right?

Do you have complete trust that it exists?

I believe it exists. Isn't that enough for the purposes of this discussion?

You cannot prove the existence of God, and yet your entire belief system depends on it.

Actually no it's not. My argument is that those beliefs are incongruent.

I don't think they can be logically proven.

If the reasons for that belief cannot even be listed, it literally proves my point.

No, it does not prove your point. Being an atheist simply means I do not believe in god. It does not mean I do not believe in spiritual things even. My case in point was Buddhism. Buddhists are very spiritual, but do not believe in any god, as such.

 

[ding]

Why?

Because I believe. And that answer is as valid as your answer of "I can prove it to myself, but I cannot prove it to you" when asked for proof of the existence of God.

So you don't know where the life force resides.

You don't know how you know it doesn't originate from the corporeal.

But you know it doesn't originate from the corporeal.

You don't know why you believe it exists.

You just believe it exists, right?

Do you have complete trust that it exists?

I believe it exists. Isn't that enough for the purposes of this discussion?

You cannot prove the existence of God, and yet your entire belief system depends on it.

Actually no it's not. My argument is that those beliefs are incongruent.

I don't think they can be logically proven.

If the reasons for that belief cannot even be listed, it literally proves my point.

No, it does not prove your point. Being an atheist simply means I do not believe in god. It does not mean I do not believe in spiritual things even. My case in point was Buddhism. Buddhists are very spiritual, but do not believe in any god, as such.

Then list all the reasons you believe a life force exists. I don't believe you can list one thing.

 

[WinterBorn]

I never claimed it was all about me. I have simply stated what I believe. You seem determined to correct me on what I am.

But you did.

Apparently you are bothered by the fact that I do not fit your idea of what an atheist should be.

No, I did not. I did, however, address things you said. Especially things you said to, and about, me.

So you believe this is all about you then?

In the last 15 minutes you have asked 10 questions specifically aimed at me. If I answer them, based on my own beliefs, will this not be the basis for the next time you decide to accuse me of trying to make this all about me?

No. At beliefs which I believe are incongruent. They just happen to be your beliefs.

Do you have complete trust that a life force exists?

Oh, so you can asked specific questions, aimed specifically at me, and you are not making this about me.

But if I answer those questions, based on my own beliefs, I am making it all about me. Okey dokey then.

 

[WinterBorn]

Because I believe. And that answer is as valid as your answer of "I can prove it to myself, but I cannot prove it to you" when asked for proof of the existence of God.

How do you prove it to yourself?

I did not say I prove it to myself. I said my belief is as valid as your claim that you can prove the existence of God to yourself but not to me.

So are you admitting that you can't even prove it to yourself?

I have admitted nothing of the kind. YOu are the one saying that. Just like you are the one trying to make this about me.

Then prove me wrong by listing the basis for your beliefs. Explain to me why you have such complete trust that a life force exists. Can you even name one thing?

Prove you wrong? lol About things that cannot be empirically proven to exist?

 

[ding]

But you did.

No, I did not. I did, however, address things you said. Especially things you said to, and about, me.

So you believe this is all about you then?

In the last 15 minutes you have asked 10 questions specifically aimed at me. If I answer them, based on my own beliefs, will this not be the basis for the next time you decide to accuse me of trying to make this all about me?

No. At beliefs which I believe are incongruent. They just happen to be your beliefs.

Do you have complete trust that a life force exists?

Oh, so you can asked specific questions, aimed specifically at me, and you are not making this about me.

But if I answer those questions, based on my own beliefs, I am making it all about me. Okey dokey then.

That's right. You are just one of many who have beliefs which are mutually exclusive.

 

[WinterBorn]

Because I believe. And that answer is as valid as your answer of "I can prove it to myself, but I cannot prove it to you" when asked for proof of the existence of God.

So you don't know where the life force resides.

You don't know how you know it doesn't originate from the corporeal.

But you know it doesn't originate from the corporeal.

You don't know why you believe it exists.

You just believe it exists, right?

Do you have complete trust that it exists?

I believe it exists. Isn't that enough for the purposes of this discussion?

You cannot prove the existence of God, and yet your entire belief system depends on it.

Actually no it's not. My argument is that those beliefs are incongruent.

I don't think they can be logically proven.

If the reasons for that belief cannot even be listed, it literally proves my point.

No, it does not prove your point. Being an atheist simply means I do not believe in god. It does not mean I do not believe in spiritual things even. My case in point was Buddhism. Buddhists are very spiritual, but do not believe in any god, as such.

Then list all the reasons you believe a life force exists. I don't believe you can list one thing.

My personal experiences have led me to my beliefs.

 

[WinterBorn]

No, I did not. I did, however, address things you said. Especially things you said to, and about, me.

So you believe this is all about you then?

In the last 15 minutes you have asked 10 questions specifically aimed at me. If I answer them, based on my own beliefs, will this not be the basis for the next time you decide to accuse me of trying to make this all about me?

No. At beliefs which I believe are incongruent. They just happen to be your beliefs.

Do you have complete trust that a life force exists?

Oh, so you can asked specific questions, aimed specifically at me, and you are not making this about me.

But if I answer those questions, based on my own beliefs, I am making it all about me. Okey dokey then.

That's right. You are just one of many who have beliefs which are mutually exclusive.

No, they are not. Not believing in God does not mean not believing in any life force. If you believe that all life force is god, congrats. I do not.

 

[Baron]

Atheists are not materialists, they are empty because they believe in everlasting death!

 

[WinterBorn]

No, I did not. I did, however, address things you said. Especially things you said to, and about, me.

So you believe this is all about you then?

In the last 15 minutes you have asked 10 questions specifically aimed at me. If I answer them, based on my own beliefs, will this not be the basis for the next time you decide to accuse me of trying to make this all about me?

No. At beliefs which I believe are incongruent. They just happen to be your beliefs.

Do you have complete trust that a life force exists?

Oh, so you can asked specific questions, aimed specifically at me, and you are not making this about me.

But if I answer those questions, based on my own beliefs, I am making it all about me. Okey dokey then.

That's right. You are just one of many who have beliefs which are mutually exclusive.

And yet, when I discussed my beliefs, you accused me of trying to make this all about me. When I obviously cannot discuss this topic based on the beliefs of others. Or at least I would not try to do so, since I do not try and tell others what they believe.

 

[ding]

How do you prove it to yourself?

I did not say I prove it to myself. I said my belief is as valid as your claim that you can prove the existence of God to yourself but not to me.

So are you admitting that you can't even prove it to yourself?

I have admitted nothing of the kind. YOu are the one saying that. Just like you are the one trying to make this about me.

Then prove me wrong by listing the basis for your beliefs. Explain to me why you have such complete trust that a life force exists. Can you even name one thing?

Prove you wrong? lol About things that cannot be empirically proven to exist?

Do you want me to create a thread which lists the reasons why I believe in God.

I can actually list them.

You on the other hand believe a life force exists which does not originate from the corporeal. You don't know where this life force originates from, but you are certain it does not originate from the corporeal. These are mutually exclusive statements. You can't not know where it originates from and be certain that it doesn't originate from the corporeal. You don't know why you believe this life force exists. You can't name one reason why you believe this life force exists but you are certain it does exist. Your only argument is that you believe a life force exists. You argue this position with such force that you must have complete trust that this life force exists. That my friend is the definition of faith. So you have faith in something which did not originate from the corporeal. That sounds a lot like God to me. Which is why I say your beliefs are mutually exclusive. I don't want you to believe I am singling you out because anyone who believes that a life force exists cannot be an atheist because those two things are mutually exclusive.

 

[ding]

So you believe this is all about you then?

In the last 15 minutes you have asked 10 questions specifically aimed at me. If I answer them, based on my own beliefs, will this not be the basis for the next time you decide to accuse me of trying to make this all about me?

No. At beliefs which I believe are incongruent. They just happen to be your beliefs.

Do you have complete trust that a life force exists?

Oh, so you can asked specific questions, aimed specifically at me, and you are not making this about me.

But if I answer those questions, based on my own beliefs, I am making it all about me. Okey dokey then.

That's right. You are just one of many who have beliefs which are mutually exclusive.

And yet, when I discussed my beliefs, you accused me of trying to make this all about me. When I obviously cannot discuss this topic based on the beliefs of others. Or at least I would not try to do so, since I do not try and tell others what they believe.

You have to make it about you because you have no logical responses.

You believe a life force exists which does not originate from the corporeal. You don't know where this life force originates from, but you are certain it does not originate from the corporeal. These are mutually exclusive statements. You can't not know where it originates from and be certain that it doesn't originate from the corporeal. You don't know why you believe this life force exists. You can't name one reason why you believe this life force exists but you are certain it does exist. Your only argument is that you believe a life force exists. You argue this position with such force that you must have complete trust that this life force exists. That my friend is the definition of faith. So you have faith in something which did not originate from the corporeal. That sounds a lot like God to me. Which is why I say your beliefs are mutually exclusive. I don't want you to believe I am singling you out because anyone who believes that a life force exists cannot be an atheist because those two things are mutually exclusive.

 

[WinterBorn]

I did not say I prove it to myself. I said my belief is as valid as your claim that you can prove the existence of God to yourself but not to me.

So are you admitting that you can't even prove it to yourself?

I have admitted nothing of the kind. YOu are the one saying that. Just like you are the one trying to make this about me.

Then prove me wrong by listing the basis for your beliefs. Explain to me why you have such complete trust that a life force exists. Can you even name one thing?

Prove you wrong? lol About things that cannot be empirically proven to exist?

Do you want me to create a thread which lists the reasons why I believe in God.

I can actually list them.

You on the other hand believe a life force exists which does not originate from the corporeal. You don't know where this life force originates from, but you are certain it does not originate from the corporeal. These are mutually exclusive statements. You can't not know where it originates from and be certain that it doesn't originate from the corporeal. You don't know why you believe this life force exists. You can't name one reason why you believe this life force exists but you are certain it does exist. Your only argument is that you believe a life force exists. You argue this position with such force that you must have complete trust that this life force exists. That my friend is the definition of faith. So you have faith in something which did not originate from the corporeal. That sounds a lot like God to me. Which is why I say your beliefs are mutually exclusive. I don't want you to believe I am singling you out because anyone who believes that a life force exists cannot be an atheist because those two things are mutually exclusive.

Please point out where I said I was certain that life force does not originate from the corporeal. I said that is what I believe.

You keep using the word "certain", like I have said I am certain. I have not. Please stick to what I have actually said.

I do not believe that all incorporeal things that did not originate from the corporeal are actually an eternal, omnipotent, sentient being (God). That is the extent of what I have said.

As for my beliefs, the fact that I do not require proof or need to know the origins of the incorporeal, does not mean those beliefs are wrong or that I secretly believe in God.

If you belief that all life force is God, then your last sentence is correct. I do not believe that all life force is a sentient, omnipotent, being.

 

[WinterBorn]

In the last 15 minutes you have asked 10 questions specifically aimed at me. If I answer them, based on my own beliefs, will this not be the basis for the next time you decide to accuse me of trying to make this all about me?

No. At beliefs which I believe are incongruent. They just happen to be your beliefs.

Do you have complete trust that a life force exists?

Oh, so you can asked specific questions, aimed specifically at me, and you are not making this about me.

But if I answer those questions, based on my own beliefs, I am making it all about me. Okey dokey then.

That's right. You are just one of many who have beliefs which are mutually exclusive.

And yet, when I discussed my beliefs, you accused me of trying to make this all about me. When I obviously cannot discuss this topic based on the beliefs of others. Or at least I would not try to do so, since I do not try and tell others what they believe.

You have to make it about you because you have no logical responses.

You believe a life force exists which does not originate from the corporeal. You don't know where this life force originates from, but you are certain it does not originate from the corporeal. These are mutually exclusive statements. You can't not know where it originates from and be certain that it doesn't originate from the corporeal. You don't know why you believe this life force exists. You can't name one reason why you believe this life force exists but you are certain it does exist. Your only argument is that you believe a life force exists. You argue this position with such force that you must have complete trust that this life force exists. That my friend is the definition of faith. So you have faith in something which did not originate from the corporeal. That sounds a lot like God to me. Which is why I say your beliefs are mutually exclusive. I don't want you to believe I am singling you out because anyone who believes that a life force exists cannot be an atheist because those two things are mutually exclusive.

I am not making it about me. You are. I am simply stating my beliefs.

 

[ding]

Please point out where I said I was certain that life force does not originate from the corporeal. I said that is what I believe.

Are you quibbling with the word certain, WB. Because if you are not certain that the life force does not originate from the corporeal, then you are proving my point that you are a materialist and all is right in this world as no incongruity exists.

 

[Mindful]

No. At beliefs which I believe are incongruent. They just happen to be your beliefs.

Do you have complete trust that a life force exists?

Oh, so you can asked specific questions, aimed specifically at me, and you are not making this about me.

But if I answer those questions, based on my own beliefs, I am making it all about me. Okey dokey then.

That's right. You are just one of many who have beliefs which are mutually exclusive.

And yet, when I discussed my beliefs, you accused me of trying to make this all about me. When I obviously cannot discuss this topic based on the beliefs of others. Or at least I would not try to do so, since I do not try and tell others what they believe.

You have to make it about you because you have no logical responses.

You believe a life force exists which does not originate from the corporeal. You don't know where this life force originates from, but you are certain it does not originate from the corporeal. These are mutually exclusive statements. You can't not know where it originates from and be certain that it doesn't originate from the corporeal. You don't know why you believe this life force exists. You can't name one reason why you believe this life force exists but you are certain it does exist. Your only argument is that you believe a life force exists. You argue this position with such force that you must have complete trust that this life force exists. That my friend is the definition of faith. So you have faith in something which did not originate from the corporeal. That sounds a lot like God to me. Which is why I say your beliefs are mutually exclusive. I don't want you to believe I am singling you out because anyone who believes that a life force exists cannot be an atheist because those two things are mutually exclusive.

I am not making it about me. You are. I am simply stating my beliefs.

He does it to me too.

So I lost interest.

 

[ding]

As for my beliefs, the fact that I do not require proof or need to know the origins of the incorporeal, does not mean those beliefs are wrong or that I secretly believe in God.

So you are taking it on faith that a life force exists independent of the material world. Sounds like a religion to me.

 

[ding]

No. At beliefs which I believe are incongruent. They just happen to be your beliefs.

Do you have complete trust that a life force exists?

Oh, so you can asked specific questions, aimed specifically at me, and you are not making this about me.

But if I answer those questions, based on my own beliefs, I am making it all about me. Okey dokey then.

That's right. You are just one of many who have beliefs which are mutually exclusive.

And yet, when I discussed my beliefs, you accused me of trying to make this all about me. When I obviously cannot discuss this topic based on the beliefs of others. Or at least I would not try to do so, since I do not try and tell others what they believe.

You have to make it about you because you have no logical responses.

You believe a life force exists which does not originate from the corporeal. You don't know where this life force originates from, but you are certain it does not originate from the corporeal. These are mutually exclusive statements. You can't not know where it originates from and be certain that it doesn't originate from the corporeal. You don't know why you believe this life force exists. You can't name one reason why you believe this life force exists but you are certain it does exist. Your only argument is that you believe a life force exists. You argue this position with such force that you must have complete trust that this life force exists. That my friend is the definition of faith. So you have faith in something which did not originate from the corporeal. That sounds a lot like God to me. Which is why I say your beliefs are mutually exclusive. I don't want you to believe I am singling you out because anyone who believes that a life force exists cannot be an atheist because those two things are mutually exclusive.

I am not making it about me. You are. I am simply stating my beliefs.

Which are incongruent. Let me rephrase to remove the word certain.

You believe a life force exists which does not originate from the corporeal. You don't know where this life force originates from, but you believe it does not originate from the corporeal. These are mutually exclusive statements. You can't not know where it originates from and believe that it doesn't originate from the corporeal. You don't know why you believe this life force exists. You can't name one reason why you believe this life force exists but you are certain it does exist. Your only argument is that you believe a life force exists. You argue this position with such force that you must have complete trust that this life force exists. That my friend is the definition of faith. So you have faith in something which did not originate from the corporeal. That sounds a lot like God to me. Which is why I say your beliefs are mutually exclusive. I don't want you to believe I am singling you out because anyone who believes that a life force exists cannot be an atheist because those two things are mutually exclusive.

 

[WinterBorn]

Please point out where I said I was certain that life force does not originate from the corporeal. I said that is what I believe.

Are you quibbling with the word certain, WB. Because if you are not certain that the life force does not originate from the corporeal, then you are proving my point that you are a materialist and all is right in this world as no incongruity exists.

I am not the one quibbling. I am the one stating his beliefs. You are the one who made a blanket statement about atheists, and then spent page after page after page trying to argue that someone's personal beliefs are wrong because they do not agree with your blanket statement.

The bottom line is simple. You claim all atheists are materialists. I explain that I an am atheist (I do not believe in God) and yet I am not a materialist because I do not believe everything originates from a corporeal source. After that it is just you demanding that I prove things. There IS no proof.

I am certain what I believe. But that has not mattered to you in the least.

 

[ding]

I do not believe that all incorporeal things that did not originate from the corporeal are actually an eternal, omnipotent, sentient being (God). That is the extent of what I have said.

How would you know. You don't know where they originate from. You don't know why you believe it. You believe they don't originate from material beings and you can't explain why you believe it.

 

[WinterBorn]

As for my beliefs, the fact that I do not require proof or need to know the origins of the incorporeal, does not mean those beliefs are wrong or that I secretly believe in God.

So you are taking it on faith that a life force exists independent of the material world. Sounds like a religion to me.

Not at all. And if it were a religion, that would change nothing about what I said. There are religions which do not believe in a god.