Are atheists materialists?

[ding]

Please point out where I said I was certain that life force does not originate from the corporeal. I said that is what I believe.

Are you quibbling with the word certain, WB. Because if you are not certain that the life force does not originate from the corporeal, then you are proving my point that you are a materialist and all is right in this world as no incongruity exists.

I am not the one quibbling. I am the one stating his beliefs. You are the one who made a blanket statement about atheists, and then spent page after page after page trying to argue that someone's personal beliefs are wrong because they do not agree with your blanket statement.

The bottom line is simple. You claim all atheists are materialists. I explain that I an am atheist (I do not believe in God) and yet I am not a materialist because I do not believe everything originates from a corporeal source. After that it is just you demanding that I prove things. There IS no proof.

I am certain what I believe. But that has not mattered to you in the least.

And I am the one showing you the incongruity in your beliefs. You are literally taking your beliefs on faith because you cannot name one thing why you believe there is a life force that didn't originate from material beings.

 

[ding]

As for my beliefs, the fact that I do not require proof or need to know the origins of the incorporeal, does not mean those beliefs are wrong or that I secretly believe in God.

So you are taking it on faith that a life force exists independent of the material world. Sounds like a religion to me.

Not at all. And if it were a religion, that would change nothing about what I said. There are religions which do not believe in a god.

Let's see. You take it on faith there is a life force. You believe this life force does not originate from material beings. What am I missing?

 

[ding]

So you don't know where the life force resides.

You don't know how you know it doesn't originate from the corporeal.

But you know it doesn't originate from the corporeal.

You don't know why you believe it exists.

You just believe it exists, right?

Do you have complete trust that it exists?

I believe it exists. Isn't that enough for the purposes of this discussion?

You cannot prove the existence of God, and yet your entire belief system depends on it.

Actually no it's not. My argument is that those beliefs are incongruent.

I don't think they can be logically proven.

If the reasons for that belief cannot even be listed, it literally proves my point.

No, it does not prove your point. Being an atheist simply means I do not believe in god. It does not mean I do not believe in spiritual things even. My case in point was Buddhism. Buddhists are very spiritual, but do not believe in any god, as such.

Then list all the reasons you believe a life force exists. I don't believe you can list one thing.

My personal experiences have led me to my beliefs.

Now we are getting somewhere. How did your personal experiences lead you to believe there was something more than the material world?

 

[WinterBorn]

I do not believe that all incorporeal things that did not originate from the corporeal are actually an eternal, omnipotent, sentient being (God). That is the extent of what I have said.

How would you know. You don't know where they originate from. You don't know why you believe it. You believe they don't originate from material beings and you can't explain why you believe it.

I do not feel a burning need to know origins of all things. I believe there are incorporeal things that did not come from the corporeal. And I do not believe in god. Those two things, by definition, make me an atheist who is not a materialist. That you cannot accept that is your issue, not mine. I have stated my beliefs over and over (and been accused of trying to make this all about me for my efforts).

If you choose to label me in some way, that is you. It does not change who I am and what I believe. I do not need to justify my beliefs. I have stated them. You can accept them or not.

 

[WinterBorn]

As for my beliefs, the fact that I do not require proof or need to know the origins of the incorporeal, does not mean those beliefs are wrong or that I secretly believe in God.

So you are taking it on faith that a life force exists independent of the material world. Sounds like a religion to me.

Not at all. And if it were a religion, that would change nothing about what I said. There are religions which do not believe in a god.

Let's see. You take it on faith there is a life force. You believe this life force does not originate from material beings. What am I missing?

The point.

 

[WinterBorn]

Oh, so you can asked specific questions, aimed specifically at me, and you are not making this about me.

But if I answer those questions, based on my own beliefs, I am making it all about me. Okey dokey then.

That's right. You are just one of many who have beliefs which are mutually exclusive.

And yet, when I discussed my beliefs, you accused me of trying to make this all about me. When I obviously cannot discuss this topic based on the beliefs of others. Or at least I would not try to do so, since I do not try and tell others what they believe.

You have to make it about you because you have no logical responses.

You believe a life force exists which does not originate from the corporeal. You don't know where this life force originates from, but you are certain it does not originate from the corporeal. These are mutually exclusive statements. You can't not know where it originates from and be certain that it doesn't originate from the corporeal. You don't know why you believe this life force exists. You can't name one reason why you believe this life force exists but you are certain it does exist. Your only argument is that you believe a life force exists. You argue this position with such force that you must have complete trust that this life force exists. That my friend is the definition of faith. So you have faith in something which did not originate from the corporeal. That sounds a lot like God to me. Which is why I say your beliefs are mutually exclusive. I don't want you to believe I am singling you out because anyone who believes that a life force exists cannot be an atheist because those two things are mutually exclusive.

I am not making it about me. You are. I am simply stating my beliefs.

He does it to me too.

So I lost interest.

Yes, I am losing interest as well.

 

[WinterBorn]

Please point out where I said I was certain that life force does not originate from the corporeal. I said that is what I believe.

Are you quibbling with the word certain, WB. Because if you are not certain that the life force does not originate from the corporeal, then you are proving my point that you are a materialist and all is right in this world as no incongruity exists.

I am not the one quibbling. I am the one stating his beliefs. You are the one who made a blanket statement about atheists, and then spent page after page after page trying to argue that someone's personal beliefs are wrong because they do not agree with your blanket statement.

The bottom line is simple. You claim all atheists are materialists. I explain that I an am atheist (I do not believe in God) and yet I am not a materialist because I do not believe everything originates from a corporeal source. After that it is just you demanding that I prove things. There IS no proof.

I am certain what I believe. But that has not mattered to you in the least.

And I am the one showing you the incongruity in your beliefs. You are literally taking your beliefs on faith because you cannot name one thing why you believe there is a life force that didn't originate from material beings.

And? That does not mean I am not an atheist. Unless you choose to redefine what that word means.

 

[ding]

I do not believe that all incorporeal things that did not originate from the corporeal are actually an eternal, omnipotent, sentient being (God). That is the extent of what I have said.

How would you know. You don't know where they originate from. You don't know why you believe it. You believe they don't originate from material beings and you can't explain why you believe it.

I do not feel a burning need to know origins of all things. I believe there are incorporeal things that did not come from the corporeal. And I do not believe in god. Those two things, by definition, make me an atheist who is not a materialist. That you cannot accept that is your issue, not mine. I have stated my beliefs over and over (and been accused of trying to make this all about me for my efforts).

If you choose to label me in some way, that is you. It does not change who I am and what I believe. I do not need to justify my beliefs. I have stated them. You can accept them or not.

You mean you take it on faith that there are incorporeal things that did not come from the corporeal.

 

[ding]

Please point out where I said I was certain that life force does not originate from the corporeal. I said that is what I believe.

Are you quibbling with the word certain, WB. Because if you are not certain that the life force does not originate from the corporeal, then you are proving my point that you are a materialist and all is right in this world as no incongruity exists.

I am not the one quibbling. I am the one stating his beliefs. You are the one who made a blanket statement about atheists, and then spent page after page after page trying to argue that someone's personal beliefs are wrong because they do not agree with your blanket statement.

The bottom line is simple. You claim all atheists are materialists. I explain that I an am atheist (I do not believe in God) and yet I am not a materialist because I do not believe everything originates from a corporeal source. After that it is just you demanding that I prove things. There IS no proof.

I am certain what I believe. But that has not mattered to you in the least.

And I am the one showing you the incongruity in your beliefs. You are literally taking your beliefs on faith because you cannot name one thing why you believe there is a life force that didn't originate from material beings.

And? That does not mean I am not an atheist. Unless you choose to redefine what that word means.

Yes, It means exactly that. You have just substituted life force for God.

 

[WinterBorn]

I do not believe that all incorporeal things that did not originate from the corporeal are actually an eternal, omnipotent, sentient being (God). That is the extent of what I have said.

How would you know. You don't know where they originate from. You don't know why you believe it. You believe they don't originate from material beings and you can't explain why you believe it.

I do not feel a burning need to know origins of all things. I believe there are incorporeal things that did not come from the corporeal. And I do not believe in god. Those two things, by definition, make me an atheist who is not a materialist. That you cannot accept that is your issue, not mine. I have stated my beliefs over and over (and been accused of trying to make this all about me for my efforts).

If you choose to label me in some way, that is you. It does not change who I am and what I believe. I do not need to justify my beliefs. I have stated them. You can accept them or not.

You mean you take it on faith that there are incorporeal things that did not come from the corporeal.

Since there is no empirical proof, yes.

 

[WinterBorn]

Please point out where I said I was certain that life force does not originate from the corporeal. I said that is what I believe.

Are you quibbling with the word certain, WB. Because if you are not certain that the life force does not originate from the corporeal, then you are proving my point that you are a materialist and all is right in this world as no incongruity exists.

I am not the one quibbling. I am the one stating his beliefs. You are the one who made a blanket statement about atheists, and then spent page after page after page trying to argue that someone's personal beliefs are wrong because they do not agree with your blanket statement.

The bottom line is simple. You claim all atheists are materialists. I explain that I an am atheist (I do not believe in God) and yet I am not a materialist because I do not believe everything originates from a corporeal source. After that it is just you demanding that I prove things. There IS no proof.

I am certain what I believe. But that has not mattered to you in the least.

And I am the one showing you the incongruity in your beliefs. You are literally taking your beliefs on faith because you cannot name one thing why you believe there is a life force that didn't originate from material beings.

And? That does not mean I am not an atheist. Unless you choose to redefine what that word means.

Yes, It means exactly that. You have just substituted life force for God.

No, it does not mean that. That there is some life force beyond the material does not mean it is God. A god is sentient, omnipotent ect ect. Nothing I have said infers I believe in anything of that sort.

 

[ding]

I do not believe that all incorporeal things that did not originate from the corporeal are actually an eternal, omnipotent, sentient being (God). That is the extent of what I have said.

How would you know. You don't know where they originate from. You don't know why you believe it. You believe they don't originate from material beings and you can't explain why you believe it.

I do not feel a burning need to know origins of all things. I believe there are incorporeal things that did not come from the corporeal. And I do not believe in god. Those two things, by definition, make me an atheist who is not a materialist. That you cannot accept that is your issue, not mine. I have stated my beliefs over and over (and been accused of trying to make this all about me for my efforts).

If you choose to label me in some way, that is you. It does not change who I am and what I believe. I do not need to justify my beliefs. I have stated them. You can accept them or not.

You mean you take it on faith that there are incorporeal things that did not come from the corporeal.

Since there is no empirical proof, yes.

Of course there is tons of proof. But that is a subject for another thread.

 

[ding]

Are you quibbling with the word certain, WB. Because if you are not certain that the life force does not originate from the corporeal, then you are proving my point that you are a materialist and all is right in this world as no incongruity exists.

I am not the one quibbling. I am the one stating his beliefs. You are the one who made a blanket statement about atheists, and then spent page after page after page trying to argue that someone's personal beliefs are wrong because they do not agree with your blanket statement.

The bottom line is simple. You claim all atheists are materialists. I explain that I an am atheist (I do not believe in God) and yet I am not a materialist because I do not believe everything originates from a corporeal source. After that it is just you demanding that I prove things. There IS no proof.

I am certain what I believe. But that has not mattered to you in the least.

And I am the one showing you the incongruity in your beliefs. You are literally taking your beliefs on faith because you cannot name one thing why you believe there is a life force that didn't originate from material beings.

And? That does not mean I am not an atheist. Unless you choose to redefine what that word means.

Yes, It means exactly that. You have just substituted life force for God.

No, it does not mean that. That there is some life force beyond the material does not mean it is God. A god is sentient, omnipotent ect ect. Nothing I have said infers I believe in anything of that sort.

Are you suggesting this life force you believe in isn't sentient?

 

[Mindful]

I do not believe that all incorporeal things that did not originate from the corporeal are actually an eternal, omnipotent, sentient being (God). That is the extent of what I have said.

How would you know. You don't know where they originate from. You don't know why you believe it. You believe they don't originate from material beings and you can't explain why you believe it.

I do not feel a burning need to know origins of all things. I believe there are incorporeal things that did not come from the corporeal. And I do not believe in god. Those two things, by definition, make me an atheist who is not a materialist. That you cannot accept that is your issue, not mine. I have stated my beliefs over and over (and been accused of trying to make this all about me for my efforts).

If you choose to label me in some way, that is you. It does not change who I am and what I believe. I do not need to justify my beliefs. I have stated them. You can accept them or not.

You mean you take it on faith that there are incorporeal things that did not come from the corporeal.

Since there is no empirical proof, yes.

Of course there is tons of proof. But that is a subject for another thread.

Don't go there, Winterborn.

Not without your seatbelt, at least.

 

[ding]

Too late the trap has been sprung.

 

[WinterBorn]

I am not the one quibbling. I am the one stating his beliefs. You are the one who made a blanket statement about atheists, and then spent page after page after page trying to argue that someone's personal beliefs are wrong because they do not agree with your blanket statement.

The bottom line is simple. You claim all atheists are materialists. I explain that I an am atheist (I do not believe in God) and yet I am not a materialist because I do not believe everything originates from a corporeal source. After that it is just you demanding that I prove things. There IS no proof.

I am certain what I believe. But that has not mattered to you in the least.

And I am the one showing you the incongruity in your beliefs. You are literally taking your beliefs on faith because you cannot name one thing why you believe there is a life force that didn't originate from material beings.

And? That does not mean I am not an atheist. Unless you choose to redefine what that word means.

Yes, It means exactly that. You have just substituted life force for God.

No, it does not mean that. That there is some life force beyond the material does not mean it is God. A god is sentient, omnipotent ect ect. Nothing I have said infers I believe in anything of that sort.

Are you suggesting this life force you believe in isn't sentient?

I am suggesting I do not know. Once again, and I will type slowly so you can keep up, I do not believ in any god, and I believe there are incorporeal things that do not originate from the corporeal. That makes me an atheist who is not a materialist. Nothing I have said shows anything different.

Belief in a life force does not mean belief in god.
Faith in things that I cannot prove does not mean a belief in god.

 

[WinterBorn]

Too late the trap has been sprung.

LMAO!! Trap? No junior. No trap has been sprung.

 

[ding]

And I am the one showing you the incongruity in your beliefs. You are literally taking your beliefs on faith because you cannot name one thing why you believe there is a life force that didn't originate from material beings.

And? That does not mean I am not an atheist. Unless you choose to redefine what that word means.

Yes, It means exactly that. You have just substituted life force for God.

No, it does not mean that. That there is some life force beyond the material does not mean it is God. A god is sentient, omnipotent ect ect. Nothing I have said infers I believe in anything of that sort.

Are you suggesting this life force you believe in isn't sentient?

I am suggesting I do not know. Once again, and I will type slowly so you can keep up, I do not believ in any god, and I believe there are incorporeal things that do not originate from the corporeal. That makes me an atheist who is not a materialist. Nothing I have said shows anything different.

Belief in a life force does not mean belief in god.
Faith in things that I cannot prove does not mean a belief in god.

You don't know from your own life experience that this life force you believe in isn't sentient?

Really?

 

[Mindful]

I don't want you to agree with me, Ding.

 

[ding]

Too late the trap has been sprung.

LMAO!! Trap? No junior. No trap has been sprung.

I am more than happy for you to deny your own life experiences in believing that this life force you believe in isn't sentient. So, yeah... it kind of has.