Are globalized corporations unamerican?

[thereisnospoon]

in your previous post, you mentioned nothing about the Fed and interest rates. you mentioned fannie and freddie.

I didn't think I needed to present facts against Fox... but if you want it... here it is.

Fox News - Most Misinformed | Study - Maryland | Mediaite

lets be honest, Fox agrees with our Founders about freedom and liberty from government so liberals naturally hate America, Fox, and our Founders??

You really want to be honest? Fox agrees with nothing but pandering to the wealthy and slowly eroding the rest of America...So conservatives naturally want to do the same thing.

You see how it works... I proffer a link...that includes a valid study by a major university that shows how Fox brainwashes people like you... so you choose to ignore it and defend some vague notion about our founding fathers and how liberals hate America...

in other words...you have nothing.

No they don't. And you cannot produce a single shred of evidence to prove your claim.

 

[initforme]

I say that if a corporation sends its jobs overseas then it loses its american roots and is not considered part of america. Easy call.

 

[Steelplate]

lets be honest, Fox agrees with our Founders about freedom and liberty from government so liberals naturally hate America, Fox, and our Founders??

You really want to be honest? Fox agrees with nothing but pandering to the wealthy and slowly eroding the rest of America...So conservatives naturally want to do the same thing.

You see how it works... I proffer a link...that includes a valid study by a major university that shows how Fox brainwashes people like you... so you choose to ignore it and defend some vague notion about our founding fathers and how liberals hate America...

in other words...you have nothing.

No they don't. And you cannot produce a single shred of evidence to prove your claim.

Well nothing can convince you.... you're a true believer... a Shiite Republican. But more and more people are seeing the light in regards to FoxNews. Beck has been exposed as the charlatan he is and now lost his job...People's fervor for the Tea Party has waned. Look at Ohio and Wisconsin, New Jersey and even in my home state of Pennsylvania. More and more people aren't buying what you're selling.

They see Congress easily becoming the most lame duck Congress in history.... Simply because of the Shiites like yourself. Face it.... Extremism and radicalism is on the downhill slope of their allotted 15 minutes of fame.

Hey... I'm not saying that MSNBC doesn't engage in some of the same tactics... but they don't claim to be fair and balanced either.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You should have stopped at "live within your means".
The rest of your post is tripe.
Single payer for 310 million people is a gargantuan undertaking. Without massive bureaucracy and expense, it is impossible.
Single payer would add hundreds of thousands of new federal employees. We can't afford the ones employed now.
Bottom line. Socialized medicine is rationed care. The American people will not tolerate rationing of medical care. Period.

Tripe? Ok...

Single payer for 310 million people is the most efficient and streamlined approach.

The American people will not tolerate rationing of medical care? What the fuck do you think the current model is? You pay your premiums and if you get sicker than what the company likes... they drop you. If you have a "pre-existing" condition... they don't cover you. If they don't want to pay for a procedure... they deny you and make you go through a largely futile and time consuming appeal process.


Single payer would add hundreds of thousands of new government jobs? Even if true... at least more people will be working. But the truth is, it's not true. Those government workers over at the Medicare and Medicaid offices? Will be transferred into the program. Will there need to be more added? Sure. But not nearly to the extent that you portray.

Yes tripe..
How do you propose we fund medical care at the same level we get it now, the best technology, best pharmaceuticals, bets instruments best machines and above all, the most access to care in the world? Do you really think the federal government can pull off an inexpensive easy access, limited wait, low bureaucracy straight forward health care system for 310 million people?
Single payer is a disaster in every nation that has it. The Brits have less than half our population and they can't fund their system even with their confiscatory tax rates. They are basically telling people who have treatable cancers "sorry, your medicine is too expensive"...And don't give me any shit about links. This is widely known and if you don't, look it up yourself.
We have to reduce government employment. The taxpayers cannot afford any more. The federal government is the nation's largest employer. That's absurd.
You stated "at least more people would be working"....How do you figure that? That claim presupposes that all new federal employees would be unemployed now. Now, really....Ask yourself. Is that realistic?
Increasing government employment does not help the economy. That is done in the private sector. Increasing bureaucracy is compounding the economic woes.
Look, if you want medical care for everyone, write a check. Don't you dare demand everyone else pay up. It's your project, you fund it. Let it develop. You'll find that as with everything else our wonderful federal government tries to run will be a cluster fuck.
Let me know if you really think it's ok when you trip fall and fuck up your knee, see your primary care doctor, he gives you a prescription and tells you how you will see the orthopedist for an MRI......in 8 weeks. Yeah genius. That's what my friend's brother in Toronto went through.
So don't tell me about the panacea you think single payer will be. Don't go there.

 

[Steelplate]

You should have stopped at "live within your means".
The rest of your post is tripe.
Single payer for 310 million people is a gargantuan undertaking. Without massive bureaucracy and expense, it is impossible.
Single payer would add hundreds of thousands of new federal employees. We can't afford the ones employed now.
Bottom line. Socialized medicine is rationed care. The American people will not tolerate rationing of medical care. Period.

Tripe? Ok...

Single payer for 310 million people is the most efficient and streamlined approach.

The American people will not tolerate rationing of medical care? What the fuck do you think the current model is? You pay your premiums and if you get sicker than what the company likes... they drop you. If you have a "pre-existing" condition... they don't cover you. If they don't want to pay for a procedure... they deny you and make you go through a largely futile and time consuming appeal process.


Single payer would add hundreds of thousands of new government jobs? Even if true... at least more people will be working. But the truth is, it's not true. Those government workers over at the Medicare and Medicaid offices? Will be transferred into the program. Will there need to be more added? Sure. But not nearly to the extent that you portray.

Yes tripe..
How do you propose we fund medical care at the same level we get it now, the best technology, best pharmaceuticals, bets instruments best machines and above all, the most access to care in the world? Do you really think the federal government can pull off an inexpensive easy access, limited wait, low bureaucracy straight forward health care system for 310 million people?
Single payer is a disaster in every nation that has it. The Brits have less than half our population and they can't fund their system even with their confiscatory tax rates. They are basically telling people who have treatable cancers "sorry, your medicine is too expensive"...And don't give me any shit about links. This is widely known and if you don't, look it up yourself.
We have to reduce government employment. The taxpayers cannot afford any more. The federal government is the nation's largest employer. That's absurd.
You stated "at least more people would be working"....How do you figure that? That claim presupposes that all new federal employees would be unemployed now. Now, really....Ask yourself. Is that realistic?
Increasing government employment does not help the economy. That is done in the private sector. Increasing bureaucracy is compounding the economic woes.
Look, if you want medical care for everyone, write a check. Don't you dare demand everyone else pay up. It's your project, you fund it. Let it develop. You'll find that as with everything else our wonderful federal government tries to run will be a cluster fuck.
Let me know if you really think it's ok when you trip fall and fuck up your knee, see your primary care doctor, he gives you a prescription and tells you how you will see the orthopedist for an MRI......in 8 weeks. Yeah genius. That's what my friend's brother in Toronto went through.
So don't tell me about the panacea you think single payer will be. Don't go there.

I'll go where I choose to go, thank you very much.

 

[Richard-H]

I mean where do their loyalties lie?
Do they care if America goes down the tubes as long as their profits increase?
Same with those who play the global market.

Does America owe them any breaks or support?

Corporations are not "unAmerican."

America doesn't owe corporations anything. America has to have a competitive and attractive environment to attract and retain corporations, who create jobs and are the engine of growth. Without corporations, the economy would collapse. Without a strong business community, America will wither. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I got some news for ya:

WITH corporations America IS collapsing. BECAUSE of too strong a Business community America IS withering.

try to wake up a stop being such a drone.

And you are right, America does not owe corporations anything, but corporations owe America EVERYTHING!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh boy, that name sure sounds foreign and look what he named one of his books. Obvious this guy is a....

Why don't you fill in the blank.

An American?

I dont know if you'd call that the race card, exactly. But close enough.
I dont know anyone who claimed Sol Alinsky was something other than American.
A radical. The father of domestic terrorism. A shmoe of the first order. Maybe.

A radical? No. Father of domestic terrorism? No. Shmoe of the first order? That's you.

You political sharia'sts of the far right, Rabbi, are the domestic terrorists,and you are being rooted out by the electorate.

 

[uscitizen]

You should have stopped at "live within your means".
The rest of your post is tripe.
Single payer for 310 million people is a gargantuan undertaking. Without massive bureaucracy and expense, it is impossible.
Single payer would add hundreds of thousands of new federal employees. We can't afford the ones employed now.
Bottom line. Socialized medicine is rationed care. The American people will not tolerate rationing of medical care. Period.

Tripe? Ok...

Single payer for 310 million people is the most efficient and streamlined approach.

The American people will not tolerate rationing of medical care? What the fuck do you think the current model is? You pay your premiums and if you get sicker than what the company likes... they drop you. If you have a "pre-existing" condition... they don't cover you. If they don't want to pay for a procedure... they deny you and make you go through a largely futile and time consuming appeal process.


Single payer would add hundreds of thousands of new government jobs? Even if true... at least more people will be working. But the truth is, it's not true. Those government workers over at the Medicare and Medicaid offices? Will be transferred into the program. Will there need to be more added? Sure. But not nearly to the extent that you portray.

Yes tripe..
How do you propose we fund medical care at the same level we get it now, the best technology, best pharmaceuticals, bets instruments best machines and above all, the most access to care in the world? Do you really think the federal government can pull off an inexpensive easy access, limited wait, low bureaucracy straight forward health care system for 310 million people?
Single payer is a disaster in every nation that has it. The Brits have less than half our population and they can't fund their system even with their confiscatory tax rates. They are basically telling people who have treatable cancers "sorry, your medicine is too expensive"...And don't give me any shit about links. This is widely known and if you don't, look it up yourself.
We have to reduce government employment. The taxpayers cannot afford any more. The federal government is the nation's largest employer. That's absurd.
You stated "at least more people would be working"....How do you figure that? That claim presupposes that all new federal employees would be unemployed now. Now, really....Ask yourself. Is that realistic?
Increasing government employment does not help the economy. That is done in the private sector. Increasing bureaucracy is compounding the economic woes.
Look, if you want medical care for everyone, write a check. Don't you dare demand everyone else pay up. It's your project, you fund it. Let it develop. You'll find that as with everything else our wonderful federal government tries to run will be a cluster fuck.
Let me know if you really think it's ok when you trip fall and fuck up your knee, see your primary care doctor, he gives you a prescription and tells you how you will see the orthopedist for an MRI......in 8 weeks. Yeah genius. That's what my friend's brother in Toronto went through.
So don't tell me about the panacea you think single payer will be. Don't go there.

And neither will the privatized approach to medical care continue to work worth a damn.

 

[Samson]

I say that if a corporation sends its jobs overseas then it loses its american roots and is not considered part of america. Easy call.

Indeed.

Instead of remaining competitive in the world market, US manufacturers should simply pay higher domestic wages regardless of product quality until the Chinese put them out of business.

.....but they'll at least be considered part of America!!

 

[Samson]

I got some news for ya:

WITH corporations America IS collapsing. BECAUSE of too strong a Business community America IS withering.

try to wake up a stop being such a drone.

And you are right, America does not owe corporations anything, but corporations owe America EVERYTHING!

Corporations do pay tax, ya know.

But you're right: Why not tax them MORE? This way we can weaken the business community, and make America a stronger nation through investments in the military industrial complex, e.g. more Air Craft Carriers and Tomohawk Missels!!

 

[thereisnospoon]

I mean where do their loyalties lie?
Do they care if America goes down the tubes as long as their profits increase?
Same with those who play the global market.

Does America owe them any breaks or support?

Corporations are not "unAmerican."

America doesn't owe corporations anything. America has to have a competitive and attractive environment to attract and retain corporations, who create jobs and are the engine of growth. Without corporations, the economy would collapse. Without a strong business community, America will wither. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I got some news for ya:

WITH corporations America IS collapsing. BECAUSE of too strong a Business community America IS withering.

try to wake up a stop being such a drone.

And you are right, America does not owe corporations anything, but corporations owe America EVERYTHING!

That's very amusing.
What's next.....The Hammer and Sickle? May Day celebrations?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Corporations....The lib buzz word for "evil"....
Enough of this class warfare pro union bugle blowing.
Businesses do not operate to employ people. They operate to turn a profit for their owners/investors.
Business owners hire employees because they cannot do all of the work themselves. If that were possible the business would operate without employed help.
I will give you a perfect example.
Parkdale Mills. A company based in North Carolina. This company has been around for many years. During the 1980's market share began to dry up. Textiles became an unprofitable business in the US. Parkdale's management was determined to stay in business closed unprofitable mills then modernized the remaining plants. Employees were released. The retooled plants were designed to operate with little human oversight. Instead of hiring full time people to work in the plants, contract workers were hired to do the work. Wages were competitive with those before the changeover. The company survived and in subsequent years was able to hire full time people ,many of those former contract workers. Parkdale still operates today, turns a profit with about 10% of the workforce it once had.
For those who believe that companies cannot operate without massive employment, they are wrong.

Yep... but technology has nothing to do with the unemployment problem. I seem to recall our President using ATM's as one simple example and being ridiculed for blaming ATM's alone for our unemployment problem.

I believe you just proved the President's point.

I'll tell you one thing. You are right. In certain sectors... you can get by with little human interaction. You gave one example. Let's expand that out... Let's even say most production could be run by machines. How can you then sit there and blame working class people for our problems? If there are no jobs.... how can one be expected to contribute? If you want to relegate people to working in convenience stores... then they should be either paid a living wage, or subsidized by our government to bring them up to a living wage.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Big Business has the right to make as much money as possible without regard to our people's livelihoods AND not hold them accountable when those same people are so disaffected by the practice.

That means... if they are going to profiteer and run "lights out" factories that require little to no human interaction, then they can't keep begging for more tax breaks and railing against social policies.

What they want is to have their cake and eat it too. They want the tax breaks and the perks and they want to hire as few people as possible, AND they want Social Programs dissolved(to save them even more tax money).

BTW... just out of curiosity... How will people buy the crap that they are selling when they don't have jobs that allow them the luxury of buying anything more than food and shelter? How's that going to work?

I thought this might interest you.

BMW layoffs exemplify the evisceration of the middle class

Every working American should be dismayed by — and afraid of — what BMW is doing.

BMW, Teamsters: BMW layoffs exemplify the evisceration of the middle class - Los Angeles Times

A parts warehouse is closed because the owner wants to save the company money by offering the work to another company means the middle class is being eviscerated?.....Please. So how come the people at the BMW place don't apply for work with the new company?
Why is a person who has worked over 20 years at the same place with high union wages, not prepared for this contingency? Why are people so convinced the job they do will be there forever?
No one wants to see people lose their jobs. However everyone should be prepared for the possibility that they may not have a job tomorrow. That means, save money. Have at least 3-6 months of cash reserves to pay bills, support housing and buy food. Keep credit to a minimum. If possible ,pay off or down balances. Do not buy new vehicles if the payment is more than 1/3 rd of a weeks net pay. That means if you bring home $600 per week, don't buy a vehicle where the monthly payment is more than $200 per month. If it's more than that, you can't afford it.
Live beneath you means. Live comfortably, but avoid impulse purchases for "toys" and other wants.

 

[Richard-H]

Corporations are not "unAmerican."

America doesn't owe corporations anything. America has to have a competitive and attractive environment to attract and retain corporations, who create jobs and are the engine of growth. Without corporations, the economy would collapse. Without a strong business community, America will wither. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I got some news for ya:

WITH corporations America IS collapsing. BECAUSE of too strong a Business community America IS withering.

try to wake up a stop being such a drone.

And you are right, America does not owe corporations anything, but corporations owe America EVERYTHING!

That's very amusing.
What's next.....The Hammer and Sickle? May Day celebrations?

Red baiting is so mundane.

'Got some news for you, America was founded on the principal of government "by and for the people", not "by and for the corporations"

The Constitution cites rights of the individual, not rights of corporations.

You do not have any inalienable right to do business and when business encroaches on the rights and liberties of the people, it's the governments responsibilty to take whatever action is needed to restore those rights and liberties.

Is that commie talk?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Oh geeze...You really think that's a gotcha? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Are you shivering in your panties over Ayers reading Alinsky?

This is just more Beckian thinking. Here, you forgot a name...Soros, Soros, Soros. Why in the hell don't you start thinking for yourself. Who the hell cares about Ayers?

So Ayers was not a domestic terrorist, right? And he never read or was influenced by ALinsky, right?

It must be fun to laugh at people who are much smarter than you. I guess you really don't have much choice.

Personally I couldn't care less about Ayers. Why should any of us care? Let's face it, you only care because Beck kept bringing him up.

But I admire Alinsky. He was a good man and I do get a little sick at the way he's been portrayed by Beck and his minions. And it's because of ignorance plain and simple. Instead of finding out about the man yourself, you just believe it when Beck demonizes him and slips him into one of his conspiracy theories. That is why I speak up about him, he's worth defending.

Hey listen up cupcake, if you want to defend the guy who wrote "Rules for Radicals", you too can be held out just as un-American has Alinsky. An enemy of the State, the people and liberty.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So Ayers was not a domestic terrorist, right? And he never read or was influenced by ALinsky, right?

It must be fun to laugh at people who are much smarter than you. I guess you really don't have much choice.

Personally I couldn't care less about Ayers. Why should any of us care? Let's face it, you only care because Beck kept bringing him up.

But I admire Alinsky. He was a good man and I do get a little sick at the way he's been portrayed by Beck and his minions. And it's because of ignorance plain and simple. Instead of finding out about the man yourself, you just believe it when Beck demonizes him and slips him into one of his conspiracy theories. That is why I speak up about him, he's worth defending.

Hey listen up cupcake, if you want to defend the guy who wrote "Rules for Radicals", you too can be held out just as un-American has Alinsky. An enemy of the State, the people and liberty.

Alinsky and Beck are merely opposite sides of the coin but carry the same worth. They are both Americans. Get over it, sillies.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh geeze...You really think that's a gotcha? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Are you shivering in your panties over Ayers reading Alinsky?

This is just more Beckian thinking. Here, you forgot a name...Soros, Soros, Soros. Why in the hell don't you start thinking for yourself. Who the hell cares about Ayers?

So Ayers was not a domestic terrorist, right? And he never read or was influenced by ALinsky, right?

It must be fun to laugh at people who are much smarter than you. I guess you really don't have much choice.

Personally I couldn't care less about Ayers. Why should any of us care? Let's face it, you only care because Beck kept bringing him up.

But I admire Alinsky. He was a good man and I do get a little sick at the way he's been portrayed by Beck and his minions. And it's because of ignorance plain and simple. Instead of finding out about the man yourself, you just believe it when Beck demonizes him and slips him into one of his conspiracy theories. That is why I speak up about him, he's worth defending.

You dont care about domestic terrorism?

After the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion in 1970, in which Weatherman member Ted Gold, Ayers' close friend Terry Robbins, and Ayers' girlfriend, Diana Oughton were killed when a nail bomb being assembled in the house exploded, Ayers and several associates evaded pursuit by US law enforcement officials. Kathy Boudin and Cathy Wilkerson survived the blast. Ayers was not facing criminal charges at the time, but the federal government later filed charges against him.[4] Ayers participated in the bombings of New York City Police Department headquarters in 1970, the United States Capitol building in 1971, and the Pentagon in 1972,

Maybe you should start caring about killing innocent people and destroying property?

 

[Steelplate]

And neither will the privatized approach to medical care continue to work worth a damn.

Yeah.... they don't want to talk about that though.... why?

I'll tell you why. Because our entire health care system is a "for profit" system...Corporate Controlled...Corporate run... Employer based.

If Health Care didn't benefit the conglomerate... we'd have had single payer a long time ago. This isn't about "Socialism" this is about power and control.

 

[The Rabbi]

And neither will the privatized approach to medical care continue to work worth a damn.

Yeah.... they don't want to talk about that though.... why?

I'll tell you why. Because our entire health care system is a "for profit" system...Corporate Controlled...Corporate run... Employer based.

If Health Care didn't benefit the conglomerate... we'd have had single payer a long time ago. This isn't about "Socialism" this is about power and control.

You dont think the gov't is interested in power and control, dumbshit?

 

[Steelplate]

And neither will the privatized approach to medical care continue to work worth a damn.

Yeah.... they don't want to talk about that though.... why?

I'll tell you why. Because our entire health care system is a "for profit" system...Corporate Controlled...Corporate run... Employer based.

If Health Care didn't benefit the conglomerate... we'd have had single payer a long time ago. This isn't about "Socialism" this is about power and control.

You dont think the gov't is interested in power and control, dumbshit?

Only the paranoid are concerned about government control in a country that has free elections, free press, and the right to bear arms. It's not about power as much as it is about making things work for all Americans.

the Employer based model is unsustainable. With everyone trying to make huge profits off of our sick, the costs have become like a runaway train. We rank 1st in the world in health care costs and 30-something in quality of care, death rate and infant mortality. It's a system that isn't working. 62% of all bankruptcies are due to Medical bills. Anyone who defends this system is either crazy or a Corporatist.

I don't know why I'm even trying to have a reasonable debate here... I know it's falling on deaf ears.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yeah.... they don't want to talk about that though.... why?

I'll tell you why. Because our entire health care system is a "for profit" system...Corporate Controlled...Corporate run... Employer based.

If Health Care didn't benefit the conglomerate... we'd have had single payer a long time ago. This isn't about "Socialism" this is about power and control.

You dont think the gov't is interested in power and control, dumbshit?

Only the paranoid are concerned about government control in a country that has free elections, free press, and the right to bear arms. It's not about power as much as it is about making things work for all Americans.

the Employer based model is unsustainable. With everyone trying to make huge profits off of our sick, the costs have become like a runaway train. We rank 1st in the world in health care costs and 30-something in quality of care, death rate and infant mortality. It's a system that isn't working. 62% of all bankruptcies are due to Medical bills. Anyone who defends this system is either crazy or a Corporatist.

I don't know why I'm even trying to have a reasonable debate here... I know it's falling on deaf ears.

So worrying about the gov't, where most agencies are not subject to elections, is paranoid but worrying about corporations, which stand elections every day in the form of consumers' choice to buy or not, is not paranoid?
Does the disconnect here ever bother you?