Blues Man
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2016
- 35,513
- 14,901
The human brain has 100 billion neurons, each neuron connected to 10,000 other neurons. and probably a thousand different types of nerve cells.
Apparently I am not alone.
The Most Complicated Object in the Universe - UConn Today
UConn Health Journal: UConn Health pioneers explore new frontiers to better understand one of humankind’s perpetual mysteries.today.uconn.edu
The brain is the 'most complex thing in the universe'
Prof Sir Robin Murray has dedicated his 40-year career to psychiatric illnesses, particularly schizophrenia.www.bbc.com
And they are no more correct that you are.
The fact is our little slice of the Milky Way galaxy is an infinitesimal piece of the entire universe. We have absolutely no clue what sentient beings exists in the rest of the universe.
So it is the height of arrogance to stand on this planet and look at a universe that is 93 billion light years in diameter and proclaim that your brain is the pinnacle of evolution in this unimaginably vast universe.
And all physical and biological systems have a limit and the human brain is both physical and biological.
Do you have a link that argues against mind not being the most complex thing produced by the evolution of space and time?
Can you at least offer the attributes of what it would take to be considered more complex than the mind?
You're the one who likes logic right?
Where is the logic in assuming your mind is the pinnacle of evolution in the entire universe when that universe is 93 Billion light years in diameter and 14 billion years old and we as a species have not even ventured beyond our own inner solar system and have only existed as a species for 200000 years ?
and we know that all physical and biological systems have limits but you think the human brain has no limits.
Human intelligence: have we reached the limit of knowledge?
Despite huge advances in science over the past century, our understanding of nature is still far from complete. Not only have scientists failed to find the Holy Grail of physics—unifying the very large (general relativity) with the very small (quantum mechanics) – they still don't know what the...phys.org
Changing subjects? I will be happy to reply to your questions after you reply to the ones I asked before you asked yours.
Do you have a link that argues against mind not being the most complex thing produced by the evolution of space and time?
Can you at least offer the attributes of what it would take to be considered more complex than the mind?
I gave you a link.
Human intelligence is the product of the brain.
And are you equating the brain with the mind?
If the human brain is the most complex biological organ we know of and we do not fully understand the human brain then we are incapable of imagining the workings of a more complex brain. Just like a dog is incapable of imagining what it's like to be human.
So the link says mind is not the most complex thing produced by the universe. Can you show me the exact quote cause I must have missed it?
Yes, you can equate mind with brain. I don't see a problem with that. Just don't try an say some other mind is the most complex thing in the universe cause that's just fuckery.
So your argument is that there might be some other brain more advanced than the human brain? Same concept. Still the most complex thing produced by the universe is mind.
Can you name something other than an alien's mind that is more complex than mind?
It may be the most complicated thing we are aware of but that does not and will not ever mean it is the most complicated thing that exists or has ever existed in the universe.
You are making the faulty assumption that we know and understand everything that exists and has ever existed in the universe.
And it's not the same thing at all. You say your brain is the most complex thing that ever existed in the universe. That statement rules out any other type of brain as being more complex.
You say there is absolutely no limit to what the human brain can understand yet we know that all physical and biological systems have limits.
And I'll ask again are you equating the mind and the brain or are you referring to the mind as a product of the brain?
Tell me what the attributes would be of something that would be more complex. Consciousness is a product of the universe. What could possibly be more complex or advanced than consciousness.
I equate mind to consciousness capable of abstract thought. A human brain or an alien brain are subsets of mind capable of abstract thought. So the question I am asking is what would the attributes be - of something that is not mind - that would be more complex than mind.
You are playing word games. Consciousness is the last phase of the evolution of space and time. What could possibly be beyond consciousness. Biological life is infinitely more complex than any physical structure of inanimate matter. Consciousness is infinitely than biological life. We know this because of how the universe evolved. Each phase built upon the previous phase.
Consciousness is a product of the brain.
And just because something is made from the materials that exist in the universe does not mean the universe consciously used those materials to make anything with them.
And I never denied that biological life wasn't complex.
My issue is with your declaration that the human brain is the single most complex structure that has ever existed in the universe.
There is absolutely no way you can say that with any measure of certainty since the only biological beings that have brains that we know of are the ones that exist on this single planet in this single solar system out of all the planets and solar systems that ever have existed or exist now in a universe that is 14 billion years old and has a diameter or 93 billion light years.
Other than the conscious beings which exist in the universe, the universe itself does not appear to be conscious. So the universe most likely did not consciously do anything. Life and consciousness were produced through the evolution of space and time which are hardwired into the laws of nature and are a part of the fabric of existence. The universe could have been created such that life and consciousness were never possible to exist.
I am not saying the human mind is the single most complex structure that has ever existed in the universe. I am saying that consciousness is. Consciousness is an artifact of a mind that knows. The only example we have of that are humans but I am talking about the phenomena of consciousness.
so now you're changing your terms.
you have been saying all along that the human mind is the most complex thing in the universe now consciousness is the most complex thing.
It's all the same. The evolution of man's brain introduced a new stage of evolution... the evolution of consciousness.
It's not all the same. The brain is a physical organ of the body. The mind is a product of the brain. Consciousness is simply awareness of ones surroundings and ones own existence.
and not just humans exhibit consciousness.
.
Are Animals Conscious?
New research suggests that animals, including the bee, might be conscious.www.psychologytoday.com
And none of this supports your assertion that the human brain or mind is the most complex thing to have ever existed in the universe.
Correct, there are different degrees of consciousness. But there was a point in time where there was no consciousness. Consciousness is it's own stage of evolution of space and time. The most advanced and evolved stage of energy and matter.
How many links do you need to see before you accept that the human brain/mind/consciousness is the most complex thing ever produced by the evolution of energy and matter.
Do you have any links which say the human brain/mind/consciousness is NOT the most complex thing ever produced by the evolution of energy and matter? Of course you don't.
Why don't you realize that your assertion the the human mind is the most complex thing to ever exist in the universe is an unsupportable claim?
You do not know if any other type of mind exists or has existed in the entirety of the universe's existence and you do not know what the level of complexity of that mind is or had been.
Because I can't possibly conceive anything which could be more complex than the most complex thing that life has evolved. And neither can you. Simple life is orders of magnitude of complexity beyond the most complex non-living matter and energy. Consciousness is orders of magnitude of complexity beyond simple life.
Any other type of mind that existed in the universe is still mind, dummy. You keep trying to pigeonhole this discussion by making it about human mind. Tell me something that is more complex than mind that isn't mind.
And if you cannot conceive of anything more complicated than your own brain you cannot say that your brain is the pinnacle of evolution in the entire universe.
And the human mind is not necessarily the same thing as the mind of another being.
In post #309 you said
" There are no limits to what the human mind can learn. It is by far the most complex thing the universe has ever produced. "
So it was YOU who put the human mind at the pinnacle of all evolution since the inception of the universe not me. Now you are trying to change your terms to include any and all minds that exist or may have existed in the universe.
Dude, you are quibbling and making an argument of semantics. Try again.
How am I pigeonholing to include only the human mind when it was your statement that the human mind is the most complex thing the universe ever produced that started this line of discussion.
Once again you are being completely intellectually disingenuous.
So now are you saying that any mind is the most complex thing the universe ever created and not just the human mind? Are all minds equal?
You calling me disingenuous is rich. I'm totally cool with you disagreeing with theoretical physicist Michio Kaku who said, “The human brain has 100 billion neurons, each neuron connected to 10,000 other neurons. Sitting on your shoulders is the most complicated object in the known universe.”
So now you are adding more qualifications to your original statement. I am using YOUR statement not anyone else's. Or do you deny saying what I quoted from post # 309?
Now you are adding "the known universe". Tell me just how much of the universe is the "known" universe?
So we went from the human mind being the most complex thing the universe ever created to the generic mind being the most complex thing ever created in the universe to now the human mind being the most complex thing in the known universe.
You are moving the goal posts every time you post.
and yes that is about as intellectually disingenuous as it gets.
