Are we moving into the nuclear threshold.

[alexa]

No, Russia has not tested any nukes. Russia's strategic missile forces always do their training in the fall, but so far nothing is announced. Some of the missile forces are actually deployed in Ukraine already- another illustrtion of Putin's manpower problem.

The train is not carrying nukes. Those are garden variety fuel and cargo trucks. There are 2 light APC's at the very end of the video that may or may not be mine clearing vehicles belonging to the 12th GUMO. They are a variant of a common Russian APC (Called a Vystrel).

It doesn't mean anything.

KamAZ-43269 Vystrel Armored Personnel Carrier | Military-Today.com

Well that is what you are saying? Obviously the report I gave yesterday says something different and here is an updated version removing the parts that were wrong. It sounds extremely plausible though I am aware nothing of this is being reported on our news. It would cause panic.

Rare video shows Russia moving equipment belonging to a nuclear weapons unit

An analyst says the video shared online "is a very good example of Russian strategy" but not necessarily an imminent threat.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Rambunctious]

The stupid politics of Donald Trump is a main factor for this what happens now in the Ukraine. He made a lot of nonsense in this context and reduced many possibilities. He made the whole situation also more nuclear explosive when he left with the USA the INF-treaty in February 1st 2019. Russia made in this context clear that it will start intercontinental nukes in case intermediate range nukes will fly from Europe direction Russia.

Okay here we go again with a new guy.... I'm going to need some more from you than shady accusations....
What stupid politics of Trump?....
Trump wasn't in office when Putin invaded and Joe said it would be okay if Putin only took a small part of Ukraine... remember that?....
Trump had delivered relative peace in the world he even had the middle east moving towards peace and trade with Israel...
So your words are full of crap my friend we lived through it all... you will never rewrite history of a year ago.... not on this website....

 

[para bellum]

Well that is what you are saying? Obviously the report I gave yesterday says something different and here is an updated version removing the parts that were wrong. It sounds extremely plausible though I am aware nothing of this is being reported on our news. It would cause panic.

Rare video shows Russia moving equipment belonging to a nuclear weapons unit

An analyst says the video shared online "is a very good example of Russian strategy" but not necessarily an imminent threat.

www.cbsnews.com

The CBS piece is not an "updated version", it's just CBS jumping on the media hype.

The trucks (there are 3 in the video, not 1) are 1RL257 Krasukha-4 electronic jamming systems. They are not exclusive to the 12th GUMO, they are operated by Russian ground forces, also Iran, Libya, and Algeria. These jammers have been in use in Ukraine since February with the 3rd Motorized Rifle Division of the 20th CAA in Kharkiv.

The APC's I have already identified.

No one contacted Konrad Muzyka before running with the story, which is based entirely on 3 tweets from him, speculating that this may be some kind of "messaging".

IF, and that is a very big IF, they even belong to the 12th GUMO...

The video is geolocated to a base that has no perimeter security- meaning no nukes.

Muzyka created a shitstorm with his 3 tweets, and the modules on the APC's in question are not even positively identified. The trucks are easily ID'd, and have nothing to do with nukes.

Even if those APC's are the mine-clearing version, that does not mean anything. It would not surprise anyone if Putin taps RSVN support equipment, he has already deployed RSVN personnel to Ukraine as ground forces.

You people constantly hyperventilating about nukes are pretty pathetic. Ignorance can be cured, but stupidity is a permanent condition. Which do you prefer to be?

 

[Donald H]

I would have thought that a first strike on the other's nukes would win the war. However it is true that that would result in the nuclear winter death for everyone else in time. I have read that Russia's new nukes cannot be identified by the Wests Nuke detectors.

The thing is Alexa, a first strike wouldn't hit all of the enemy's nukes. Both sides have them scattered throughout the world on a variety of different platforms. Ships, plannes, submarines, land based in their allies countries.

I think that a lot of the problem is in the military mind believing that a nuclear war is winnable. It's a mindset that they have to believe because to believe otherwise would be defeatist to them.

Alternatively, nobody should be afraid to think the question through.

 

[alexa]

The thing is Alexa, a first strike wouldn't hit all of the enemy's nukes. Both sides have them scattered throughout the world on a variety of different platforms. Ships, plannes, submarines, land based in their allies countries.

I think that a lot of the problem is in the military mind believing that a nuclear war is winnable. It's a mindset that they have to believe because to believe otherwise would be defeatist to them.

Alternatively, nobody should be afraid to think the question through.

and that is what the information on Russia is all about. They are supposed to be on submarines going here and there, on a train and near Ukraine's borders. I know this has not been reported on our news but you can imagine the kind of response it would get. Now you know Putin will not be humiliated into defeat and to his eyes seeing Russia destroyed. The belief is that the pictures of movement of the nukes being made available is not an accident. It illustrates that Russia is prepared to use them if need be. The US needs to respond and from what I hear people say here they will not talk till Putin is gone which can lead nowhere but thermal nuclear war. In addition, how they see Putin is as a very evil man who just decided to take some of Ukraine and who would go after every other country he wanted after, so they cannot let him go. That is imo the most scary thing. (see post 41 for more details on the nukes in article)

 

[para bellum]

 

[para bellum]

It could be Russian nukes will hit not only Ukraine but USA and UK too.
Four Poseidons and the US's East Coast and UK ( together with NL, Belgium, the Coast of France ) are gone.

Say 'thanks' to idiots in western governments who since 2013 support fascist scum in Ukraine

Lame video.

The Belgorod is currently doing sea trials in the Barents Sea. Everyone who watches Russian subs knows this.

 

[Baron]

Shut up, Russian.

Russians weren't kicked out from almost all nations through the last 5,000 like your people.
Also, you're the first who must shut up.

Probably you can explain why?

For example those ones

109 Locations whence Jews have been Expelled since AD250

 

[MarcATL]

No.

 

[zaangalewa]

Okay here we go again with a new guy.... I'm going to need some more from you than shady accusations....
What stupid politics of Trump?....

The whole man is stupid and everyone who votes for him is stupid. End this nonsense. Hang him.

Trump wasn't in office when Putin invaded and Joe said it would be okay if Putin only took a small part of Ukraine... remember that?....
Trump had delivered relative peace in the world he even had the middle east moving towards peace and trade with Israel...
So your words are full of crap my friend we lived through it all... you will never rewrite history of a year ago.... not on this website....#

q.e.d

My stupidity hypothese seems to be correct. Never I heard anything else than stupid unreal nonsense from Trump supporters. This man has a narcissistic personality disorder. And don't think this is only a little vanity. Anders Behring Breivick for example had the same psychological problem while he shot with a gun directly into the faces of many innocent teens. I guess all tyrants also always had been narcissists: Alexander, Cesar, Ghengis, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin ... Such people know only loyalite to themselve and are not able to lose - and the life of others is without any meaning and/or importance for them.

 

[alexa]

For what ever reason Para Bellum I cannot get post 46 to let me reply to it. While your reply is much the same as I said to Donald, your attitude in thinking that is an acceptable situation is the very one which will result in nuclear war. Does it mean he is going to nuke. Not really he might just be trying to frighten us. 'It might be a sign that' Moscow is escalating.' Given the reality that the only thing they seem to have is nukes, where exactly do you think they are escalating to. I was watching one of Zelensky's men being interviewed by Tim Sebastion. In depth Interview, last night and he was being asked on this given that I am not alone in concern and contrary to your first reply when you said it did not happen. Like yourself and everyone else on the Ukraine side who I have seen talk of this he dissed it. At first he kind of smiled and shrugged and gave the impression that Putin would be the worst person ever if he did that. Tim immediately asked if they were not taking this seriously. You know nukes, the end of the world and you don't take it seriously. I don't know if this guy had someone telling him what to say but he immediately changed his position from laughing at the idea that this could be some kind of preparation to allow Russia a quick start if it came to nukes to one that they 'ought' to be taking it seriously. What I said earlier to Donald was that the belief seemed to be that Moscow was allowing the moving about of these nukes to be seen because it wanted people to be aware it was prepared to use them. Your tweet says the same thing. I hate to tell you this but when Moscow decides to use them, there will be no time for talking. Making people know they are absolutely ready to use them in sane people ought to cause more of a reaction than just shrugging your shoulders. The response is insane. There are no further moves towards using nukes. The next move is using them.

 

[para bellum]

There are no further moves towards using nukes. The next move is using them.

Please just stop with the hysterics.

The train was not carrying any nukes. Nukes are moved on special rail cars, there are none in that video.
The train was heading north, not west to Ukraine
The base it came from was a tiny base with a firefighting detachment, a vehicle park, and a guard detachment. It is the depot for spare parts and maintenance for the 12th GUMO. There are no nukes there.

The 12th GUMO is responsible for the guarding and storage of nukes, the transport to the assembly locations, mating the warhead to the delivery platform, and delivery to the operational units. No nukes have been removed from monitored storage, and the strategic nuclear postures of Russia and the US/NATO are unchanged since February.

The armored car- the Vystrel with the 30mm turret belongs to the RSVN, NOT the 12th GUMO. The RSVN is missiles, the 12th GUMO is nukes. Different branches, not even the same chain of command. The 12th GUMO is it's own directorate- it does not take directions from Shoigu.

The RSVN does, and already has personnel in Ukraine. It would be extremely unlikely for the 12th GUMO to put any assets in Ukraine. They are tasked with guarding the nuclear stockpile, not warfighting.

This is the time of year when Russia does the annual RSVN exercises in the arctic, and most likely the vehicles are a guard detachment being transported north to support this year's exercise.

(link will auto-translate)

Апокалипсис не сегодня. Тайна российского "ядерного поезда"

Радио Свобода выяснило, из какой войсковой части ехал взбудораживший мир железнодорожный состав, попавший на видео и получивший с легкой руки западных сми прозвище "ядерный поезд". Это одна из баз ответственного за хранение и перевозку ядерного оружия 12-го Главного управления Министерства...

www-svoboda-org.translate.goog

 

[Ringo]

While all analytical publications are discussing when and where Mr. Putin will use nuclear weapons on the territory of Ukraine and what the West's response will be, the Pentagon suddenly discovered that Russian submarines are placing Poseidon torpedoes off the coasts of England, the United States and Europe.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Open Bolt]

What do you feel about the possibility of the Ukraine war going nuclear.

If Putin uses nuclear weapons against Ukraine, our response should be to accept Ukraine into NATO and immediately move NATO ground forces into Ukraine to protect them.

We shouldn't move to expel the Russians from any Ukrainian territory that they hold, as that would lead to nuclear war, but NATO forces should prevent any Russian advancement further into Ukrainian territory.

Ukraine would then become a divided country like Germany was during the Cold War.

We should rebuild the Chervone-Pustohorod airbase and base F-35 fighters there. It was abandoned 30 years ago when the Soviet Union collapsed and there are now trees growing in the runways, but it is close enough to Moscow to conduct airstrikes, so fixing it up will be well worth the expense.

 

[alexa]

If Putin uses nuclear weapons against Ukraine, our response should be to accept Ukraine into NATO and immediately move NATO ground forces into Ukraine to protect them.

We shouldn't move to expel the Russians from any Ukrainian territory that they hold, as that would lead to nuclear war, but NATO forces should prevent any Russian advancement further into Ukrainian territory.

Ukraine would then become a divided country like Germany was during the Cold War.

We should rebuild the Chervone-Pustohorod airbase and base F-35 fighters there. It was abandoned 30 years ago when the Soviet Union collapsed and there are now trees growing in the runways, but it is close enough to Moscow to conduct airstrikes, so fixing it up will be well worth the expense.

I have never felt it all that likely that Russia will use nukes against Ukraine. I even read somewhere that they did not want to use them on Ukraine which makes absolutely sense as many of them are part Russian part Ukranian at some place in their family.

I have only thought that Russia might use nukes if it is put in a corner with no other possibility like when I read stories which led me to believe that was all they had. Russia is overloaded with nukes, the most advanced ones by what everyone says. My first interest is that they not use them and I believe that if Russia if pushed into a situation where the existence of Russia is at risk, they will use them....not just a tactical nuclear one on the people of Ukraine but either one or more of ballistic ones at the UK as they have said they will or on more targets than just the UK. I also do not think that Putin is a stupid person. If he were to strike the UK, he would have something else stacked up for seconds if need be. Russia wants Russia. That is why it is upset at the idea of NATO on its doorstep.

I don't get where you see Russia divided but that would be something I would not think is a good idea. The US has been aware for decades that Russia feels very threatened by NATO's encroachment on its territory. I seem to remember reading the US's response was along the lines that they had no reason to be. IMO the US needs to learn a skill it has had before but seems to have lost these last twenty years and that is Diplomacy and understanding it does not matter if it does not see a problem, if others around do, they need to talk, not just reply on their military ability and that is particularly important when the other country is a nuclear power.

There is talk of Russia possibly coming back with their recent strikes on infrastructure in Ukraine followed by a possibly much larger and potentially successful invasion in the winter. John Mearsheimer has said Russia's position is that if Russia can't have Ukraine, no one can and he says that is what he is doing. wrecking Ukraine. Of course the question remains whether he has the ability to do so.

 

[fncceo]

A war in the heart of Europe directly impacts the United States.

The Ukraine isn't the "heart" of Europe ... it is closer to the Prostate of Europe.

 

[Dayton3]

The Ukraine isn't the "heart" of Europe ... it is closer to the Prostate of Europe.

look at a map.

 

[Open Bolt]

My first interest is that they not use them and I believe that if Russia if pushed into a situation where the existence of Russia is at risk, they will use them....not just a tactical nuclear one on the people of Ukraine but either one or more of ballistic ones at the UK as they have said they will or on more targets than just the UK. I also do not think that Putin is a stupid person. If he were to strike the UK, he would have something else stacked up for seconds if need be. Russia wants Russia. That is why it is upset at the idea of NATO on its doorstep.

Russia's existence is not at risk, unless they nuke a NATO country.

If Russia nukes a NATO country, then Russia will die.

I don't get where you see Russia divided

Having part of Ukraine under Russian control and part of Ukraine under NATO protection would be dividing Ukraine.

Look at the way Germany was divided during the Cold War.

but that would be something I would not think is a good idea.

Splitting Ukraine is much less-bad than having a large nuclear war between NATO and Russia.

Remember I was addressing what should be done if Russia starts using nuclear weapons against Ukraine.

The US has been aware for decades that Russia feels very threatened by NATO's encroachment on its territory. I seem to remember reading the US's response was along the lines that they had no reason to be. IMO the US needs to learn a skill it has had before but seems to have lost these last twenty years and that is Diplomacy and understanding it does not matter if it does not see a problem, if others around do, they need to talk, not just reply on their military ability and that is particularly important when the other country is a nuclear power.

If Russia did not want NATO on its doorstep then they shouldn't have been invading their neighbors. Now they are going to get NATO on their doorstep no matter what they want.

There is talk of Russia possibly coming back with their recent strikes on infrastructure in Ukraine followed by a possibly much larger and potentially successful invasion in the winter. John Mearsheimer has said Russia's position is that if Russia can't have Ukraine, no one can and he says that is what he is doing. wrecking Ukraine. Of course the question remains whether he has the ability to do so.

Russia has no ability to conquer all of Ukraine certainly. Perhaps with a massive effort they could retake those provinces that they annexed and then lost.

 

[alexa]

Russia's existence is not at risk, unless they nuke a NATO country.

If Russia nukes a NATO country, then Russia will die.



Having part of Ukraine under Russian control and part of Ukraine under NATO protection would be dividing Ukraine.

Look at the way Germany was divided during the Cold War.




Splitting Ukraine is much less-bad than having a large nuclear war between NATO and Russia.

Remember I was addressing what should be done if Russia starts using nuclear weapons against Ukraine.



If Russia did not want NATO on its doorstep then they shouldn't have been invading their neighbors. Now they are going to get NATO on their doorstep no matter what they want.



Russia has no ability to conquer all of Ukraine certainly. Perhaps with a massive effort they could retake those provinces that they annexed and then lost.

Your beliefs and those of Russia are somewhat different. I don't go with your desires which are to occupy and own another though with Russia there are certainly those who argue that is what the US is up to and using Ukraine to achieve. Mind you at any time whether Russia needed to use nukes would depend on the pressure it was being put under and what it had to protect itself. I know I have heard they have loads of supersonic weapons which I think are pretty scary though not nuclear. I have heard they have some weapons which can destroy all the people in a building and I think though am not sure, that they leave the building standing. Possibly Russia will find they help them to keep their Sovereignty though sadly your methods would in no way lead to cordial relations between yourselves and Russia . I heard someone describing Putin as someone who still lives in the Soviet Era. From what you are saying about it being fine for Germany so would be for Russia too suggests you do too .