Are you one of the 53%

[editec]

ARe any of you 53%ers willing to make less money in order NOT to be taxed?

No?

Didn't think so.

Now ask yourselves how many of the 47% would be ready to change places with you.

Think there might be a few willing to pay taxes to have YOUR life?

How much money I make is a result of my efforts, not a result of how much the the government decides to tax me.

Yeah, okay that's right.

You put the cart before the horse, so your syllogism is bullshit.

Which is the cart and which is the horse?

So your point is that you believe that those making so little that they do not pay taxes would NOT make more (and take home much more) just so they don't have to pay taxes?

Interesting theory.

I think you're wrong, but we are discussing theories after all.

 

[Ravi]

 

[JakeStarkey]

if you have the money to pay for the services, you wouldn;t be qualifying for the services (ie child tax credit and EIC credit), would you?

You could have some money to partially pay for those services...couldn't you ?

And you didn't answer the orginal question.

Who decides ?

We the Peope through our elected representatives.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Ever wonder why it is that some seem to want those who pay the most to pay even more?

 

[Listening]

You are allowed to vote.

I'm allowed to do more than that. In fact, I'll agree with Mr. Jefferson on this one:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident. . . That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

As for elections, when corporate campaign donors hold veto power over who can run for office, so that certain positions unacceptable to big business are not allowed onto the ballot, or become lies when they do show up (as in 2008), one may not draw too many conclusions about the results of them regarding public opinion. Remember that the Republicans won in 2010 with the votes of a little over 20% of Americans, no more. This follows from the 41% voter turnout in that election.

I'll let you in on something I know about what happened that year. Hardly anyone who voted for Obama in 2008 voted Republican in 2010. The nation did not change its mind. The majority of the people still wanted what Obama promised to do when he campaigned that year. The difference was that many of them had discovered he had no intention of keeping most of his promises. So while hardly anyone switched sides and voted Republican in 2010 who voted Democratic in 2008, many who voted for Obama in 2008 did not vote at all in 2010. And that accounts entirely for the Republican victory. It was no mandate, no sign of the people's support. It was a victory by default, no more.

That may to some extent happen in 2012, or it may not. If it does, I would suggest you not take too much comfort in it. The same people who voted (and canvassed and phone called and knocked on doors) for Obama in 2008, or many of them, are now protesting in the streets and organizing for purposes outside of the standard electoral process. Now, enough of them may vote for damage-control purposes to give the Democrats a victory that will surprise you -- that's certainly a mathematical possibility.

But whether it does or not, the fact remains that a great many people have become disillusioned with the electoral process in its current corrupt form, and have turned their attention to extra-electoral methods. Those methods have already changed the dialog (or this thread wouldn't even exist). They may succeed in opening up the electoral process and putting things on the ballot that wouldn't be there otherwise, and pushing through the real progressive reforms that a majority of the people want. Or they may not.

But the end of that road, if they don't, is revolution. We're ripe for it. And in the end, Jefferson was right.

And when it happens things will change.

Until then, all you do is get to vote.....

And the fact that all those Obamanites didn't turn out means they changed their minds in some form.

You can cry all you want about revolution....after all they don't call it the "Tea Party" for nothing. And I'd say that is much closer to revolution (against the regressive efforts of the left) than anything you have produced to date.

 

[Listening]

Ever wonder why it is that some seem to want those who pay the most to pay even more?

Has anyone documented a "donation" to the federal government ? There was that thread on "Tax me more".....seemed to fade with nothing of substance.

 

[noose4]

Ever wonder why it is that some seem to want those who pay the most to pay even more?

Because the system is set up for those who get the most to continue getting the most, things such as the tax on capital gains being less than the income tax and the multiple loopholes available to the rich that are not available to the commoners.

 

[Full-Auto]

Ever wonder why it is that some seem to want those who pay the most to pay even more?

Because the system is set up for those who get the most to continue getting the most, things such as the tax on capital gains being less than the income tax and the multiple loopholes available to the rich that are not available to the commoners.

For example?.......................................

 

[noose4]

Ever wonder why it is that some seem to want those who pay the most to pay even more?

Because the system is set up for those who get the most to continue getting the most, things such as the tax on capital gains being less than the income tax and the multiple loopholes available to the rich that are not available to the commoners.

For example?.......................................

There are examples in the statement already, capital gains being taxed at a lower rate than the money a person makes actually doing work, tax loopholes.

 

[Dragon]

And when it happens things will change.

Until then, all you do is get to vote.....

No, I also get to organize, demonstrate, write, communicate, persuade, and otherwise exercise my rights outside the electoral process, without which voting is useless.

And the fact that all those Obamanites didn't turn out means they changed their minds in some form.

Well, that's true. They changed their belief that Obama could be trusted, or rather he changed it for them by proving that he couldn't.

But in reaching that perfectly logical conclusion they did not move closer to the Republicans, they remained where they had been in terms of the issues, merely deciding to approach them in a different way. The point is that the 2010 election didn't show that the Republicans, or the Tea Party either, has the support of a majority of the people. It showed the support of a little over 20 percent of the people, no more than that, and that's really about all it is.

You can cry all you want about revolution....after all they don't call it the "Tea Party" for nothing. And I'd say that is much closer to revolution (against the regressive efforts of the left) than anything you have produced to date.

The Tea Party has the support of some 25% of the population. That's not enough for revolution. It also has the active and visceral opposition of more people than support it. As for what the movement has produced to date, it's only a month old (in its overt visible manifestation anyway) and yet it's already changed the framing of the conversation. As I said, if that weren't so this thread wouldn't even exist. Before OWS, the only discussion was about how to cut spending. Now, the conversation has shifted to discussing the corrupting influence of corporate money on government, the declining middle class, the excessive concentration of wealth, and the malfeasance of big business. Things are on the table that were off of it a month ago.

I'd say that's not a bad beginning.

 

[flacaltenn]

ARe any of you 53%ers willing to make less money in order NOT to be taxed?

No?

Didn't think so.

Now ask yourselves how many of the 47% would be ready to change places with you.

Think there might be a few willing to pay taxes to have YOUR life?

Nuh-uh Editec.. If it reached a point where the next increment of my income was gonna be taxed (total taxes) at about 45% or more --- I'd slack off. I'd adjust my spending.. Or I definately wouldn't let my wife's salary go to nothing but paying our taxes...

I'd welcome ANY of the 47% to do what I do -- but I plan on keeping my job. Plenty of room in my biz. I'd even help.

You're still stuck in the belief that it is I who is taking their job and stuff. It's not.. False choices offered there.

 

[Ame®icano]

We Are The 53%

 

[Navy1960]

More than half of U.S. workers don't earn enough to be taxed. A large segment game the system by taking enough credits and deductions to eliminate all tax obligations. Even though most of us still pay Medicare and Social Security payroll taxes, 13% of all U.S. households pay neither federal income nor payroll taxes.
More Americans Tapping Into Entitlement Programs Swells Budget Deficit - Money Morning

This notion that 47% of Americans are somehow the scum of the earth because they do not make enough to pay Federal Income taxes is a dangerous one if not misleading at best. A good example would be low income Americans that drive a car, each and everytime they put gas in it are paying Federal Taxes up to 18.4 cents a gallon. Not to mention Federal taxes paid on any number of transactions that are paid into the US Treasury. So just to lump everyone into this catagory of somehow being a burden on the so called 53% is totally misleading...

In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.

The ranks of those whose major federal tax burdens net out at zero -- or less -- is on the rise. The center's original 2009 estimate was 38%. That was before enactment in February of the $787 billion economic recovery package, which included a host of new or expanded tax breaks.

47% of households owe no tax - and their ranks are growing - Sep. 30, 2009

71 Million just so you know is not 47% of Americans, nor does it mean that those Americans are a burden.

 

[American Horse]

There are a lot of self employed people who take pay for work "under the trable" in cash. They declare just enough income on their 1040 form to keep active, and to pay some into Social Security and Medicare. They may earn twice as much as they show on their 1040.

But their ability to qualify for EITC is based on a lie, and they do draw it, so they are being rewarded for screwing the system.

As a self employed person I filed 1099's on people who did (no longer because I'm retired) more than $600 worth of work for me, and occasionally I got a letter from the IRS asking me to garnishee wages from one of these people who was operating in the way I described. No telling whether or not they were enjoying EITC credits (but if they had a decent Accountant or CPA they would've).

A good thing about the EITC (other than helping people who actually need help and encouragement to keep a job) is that it ropes people into the system and makes them a part of it so it's harder for them to game it.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I know several people who make up to $2000 a month under the table. strictly cash and they don't claim a dime of it. One collects SSI and makes anywhere from $300 to $3000 a month cash, depends on how drunk he stays..........

I say everyone who has a job should pay income tax. Even if it is only a minimum tax of $10 annually. And yes there are dozens if not hundreds of hidden taxes out there that we all pay everyday. From utilities to cell phones to Internet....Not much gets away without a penny added here and there................

 

[rdean]

I know several people who make up to $2000 a month under the table. strictly cash and they don't claim a dime of it. One collects SSI and makes anywhere from $300 to $3000 a month cash, depends on how drunk he stays..........

I say everyone who has a job should pay income tax. Even if it is only a minimum tax of $10 annually. And yes there are dozens if not hundreds of hidden taxes out there that we all pay everyday. From utilities to cell phones to Internet....Not much gets away without a penny added here and there................

Your friends are a trip.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I know several people who make up to $2000 a month under the table. strictly cash and they don't claim a dime of it. One collects SSI and makes anywhere from $300 to $3000 a month cash, depends on how drunk he stays..........

I say everyone who has a job should pay income tax. Even if it is only a minimum tax of $10 annually. And yes there are dozens if not hundreds of hidden taxes out there that we all pay everyday. From utilities to cell phones to Internet....Not much gets away without a penny added here and there................

Your friends are a trip.

Excuse me? Did I say I had friends who did this or that I knew people who did this? You really need a reading comprehension course.......

Of course then you are rdean, so we understand. You can go back to your rubber room now.....

 

[FactFinder]

I know several people who make up to $2000 a month under the table. strictly cash and they don't claim a dime of it. One collects SSI and makes anywhere from $300 to $3000 a month cash, depends on how drunk he stays..........

I say everyone who has a job should pay income tax. Even if it is only a minimum tax of $10 annually. And yes there are dozens if not hundreds of hidden taxes out there that we all pay everyday. From utilities to cell phones to Internet....Not much gets away without a penny added here and there................

Your friends are a trip.

Excuse me? Did I say I had friends who did this or that I knew people who did this? You really need a reading comprehension course.......

Of course then you are rdean, so we understand. You can go back to your rubber room now.....

Easy to demand payment when one is on the dole.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Your friends are a trip.

Excuse me? Did I say I had friends who did this or that I knew people who did this? You really need a reading comprehension course.......

Of course then you are rdean, so we understand. You can go back to your rubber room now.....

Easy to demand payment when one is on the dole.

Have I ever taken a dime I didn't earn? No. Do I pay taxes on my retirement? Yes
Are you a fucking moron? Of course.

 

[FactFinder]

Excuse me? Did I say I had friends who did this or that I knew people who did this? You really need a reading comprehension course.......

Of course then you are rdean, so we understand. You can go back to your rubber room now.....

Easy to demand payment when one is on the dole.

Have I ever taken a dime I didn't earn? No. Do I pay taxes on my retirement? Yes
Are you a fucking moron? Of course.

Says you on all 3 counts.