Art As Servant of The State

[Camp]

Another artist martyred to the regime with which Franklin Roosevelt felt comfortable confederating the United States, the Russian communists:


c. Vsevolod Meyerhold... was a Russian and Soviettheatre director,actorandtheatrical producer.... In the early 1930s, when Joseph Stalin repressed all avant-garde art and experimentation, his works were proclaimed antagonistic and alien to the Soviet people. His theatre was closed down ... Meyerhold was brutally tortured[5]and forced to confess that he worked for Japanese and British intelligence agencies. He later recanted the confession in a letter to Vyacheslav Molotov.

The file on Meyerhold contains his letter from prison to Molotov:

“The investigators began to use force on me, a sick 65-year-old man. I was made to lie face down and beaten on the soles of my feet and my spine with a rubber strap... For the next few days, when those parts of my legs were covered with extensive internal hemorrhaging, they again beat the red-blue-and-yellow bruises with the strap and the pain was so intense that it felt as if boiling water was being poured on these sensitive areas. I howled and wept from the pain…

When I lay down on the cot and fell asleep, after 18 hours of interrogation, in order to go back in an hour's time for more, I was woken up by my own groaning and because I was jerking about like a patient in the last stages of typhoid fever.[6]”

He was sentenced to death by firing squadon 1 February 1940, and executed the next day. The Soviet government cleared him of all charges in 1955, during the first wave of de-Stalinization." Vsevolod Meyerhold - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



" Three weeks later, thugs acting on orders of Stalin's secret police broke into Meyerhold's Moscow apartment and savagely attacked [his wife] Raikh; she died of 17 stab wounds, two of them through her eyes.." Zinaida Raikh 1894 - 1939 - Find A Grave Memorial



The above starkly illustrates the governance of Joseph Stalin, the man Franklin Roosevelt called 'Uncle Joe,' and for whom he lied to the American people: "Stalin fights for the same things as America does!"


Roosevelt swore to the American public that the Bolsheviks fought for the same things as America did.

Amazing.

Oh now I get it. This is another incarnation of PC's FDR derangement syndrome.

Let me give you a clue. Ranting, pissing, and moaning are your prerogative, but the bottomline is,

FDR won, America won, and your kind lost, and you will never ever reverse that.

Well FDR did have all those murals being painted all over the place. Especially the new post offices, libraries and town halls he had built. Forced American into that whole art renaissance period and awakening.

Is that what you imagine it was about?

Wrong, again.

It was his simpatico with every other totalitarian dictatorship.

1. Wolfgang Schivelbusch, in “Three New Deals” discuses the architecture of the three regimes in terms of ‘monumentality,’ the need of people to create symbols that reveal their inner life, their actions, and their social conceptions. The similarity of the architecture of National Socialism, of Fascism, and of that of the New Deal is a reminder of the fact that during the Great Depression, capitalism’s period of crisis, all three philosophies rejected modernism and turned, instead, to monumentality, a backward-looking, neoclassical architecture.
   1. In this style, the state manifests power and authority. It is the architecture that would tower on behalf of, but also above, the people like a temple, inspiring trust, respect, and a quasi-religious sense of deeper meaning and community- while at the same time showing the rest of the world what it was dealing with.
   2. In the 19th century, along with liberal capitalism (in which the state restricted itself to a supervisory role and allowed the private sector to determine architectural aesthetics) neoclassicism lost its hold, but in the 20th century, with increased state regulation of the economy, continuing with the mobilization of the economy during the war, and the near-total intervention during the Depression, it returned.

You really should take notes.

I sure don't need the screwy notes you hoist on us. Artist were given great latitude and freedom when creating murals. The murals almost always depicted regional heritage and historical replications. Anyone can google or yahoo or bing new deal mural images to look at dozens and dozens of murals to see what you are spouting to compare American murals of the New Deal to Nazi era and Stalin era fascist and communist propaganda art is anti American slander.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Wow. I see a lot of liberals getting whipped, flogged and crucified in this thread. When I need an education. I seek out PC's threads.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I sure don't need the screwy notes you hoist on us.

Yeah!

Why bother reading the facts when you can make up your own?!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Wow. I see a lot of liberals getting whipped, flogged and crucified in this thread. When I need an education, I seek out PC's threads.

How many examples of collectivism in America can you name?

And while you're at it, how many American artists can you name whose art is designed to encourage a totalitarian takeover of America?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Another artist martyred to the regime with which Franklin Roosevelt felt comfortable confederating the United States, the Russian communists:


c. Vsevolod Meyerhold... was a Russian and Soviettheatre director,actorandtheatrical producer.... In the early 1930s, when Joseph Stalin repressed all avant-garde art and experimentation, his works were proclaimed antagonistic and alien to the Soviet people. His theatre was closed down ... Meyerhold was brutally tortured[5]and forced to confess that he worked for Japanese and British intelligence agencies. He later recanted the confession in a letter to Vyacheslav Molotov.

The file on Meyerhold contains his letter from prison to Molotov:

“The investigators began to use force on me, a sick 65-year-old man. I was made to lie face down and beaten on the soles of my feet and my spine with a rubber strap... For the next few days, when those parts of my legs were covered with extensive internal hemorrhaging, they again beat the red-blue-and-yellow bruises with the strap and the pain was so intense that it felt as if boiling water was being poured on these sensitive areas. I howled and wept from the pain…

When I lay down on the cot and fell asleep, after 18 hours of interrogation, in order to go back in an hour's time for more, I was woken up by my own groaning and because I was jerking about like a patient in the last stages of typhoid fever.[6]”

He was sentenced to death by firing squadon 1 February 1940, and executed the next day. The Soviet government cleared him of all charges in 1955, during the first wave of de-Stalinization." Vsevolod Meyerhold - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



" Three weeks later, thugs acting on orders of Stalin's secret police broke into Meyerhold's Moscow apartment and savagely attacked [his wife] Raikh; she died of 17 stab wounds, two of them through her eyes.." Zinaida Raikh 1894 - 1939 - Find A Grave Memorial



The above starkly illustrates the governance of Joseph Stalin, the man Franklin Roosevelt called 'Uncle Joe,' and for whom he lied to the American people: "Stalin fights for the same things as America does!"


Roosevelt swore to the American public that the Bolsheviks fought for the same things as America did.

Amazing.

Oh now I get it. This is another incarnation of PC's FDR derangement syndrome.

Let me give you a clue. Ranting, pissing, and moaning are your prerogative, but the bottomline is,

FDR won, America won, and your kind lost, and you will never ever reverse that.

Well FDR did have all those murals being painted all over the place. Especially the new post offices, libraries and town halls he had built. Forced American into that whole art renaissance period and awakening.

Is that what you imagine it was about?

Wrong, again.

It was his simpatico with every other totalitarian dictatorship.

1. Wolfgang Schivelbusch, in “Three New Deals” discuses the architecture of the three regimes in terms of ‘monumentality,’ the need of people to create symbols that reveal their inner life, their actions, and their social conceptions. The similarity of the architecture of National Socialism, of Fascism, and of that of the New Deal is a reminder of the fact that during the Great Depression, capitalism’s period of crisis, all three philosophies rejected modernism and turned, instead, to monumentality, a backward-looking, neoclassical architecture.
   1. In this style, the state manifests power and authority. It is the architecture that would tower on behalf of, but also above, the people like a temple, inspiring trust, respect, and a quasi-religious sense of deeper meaning and community- while at the same time showing the rest of the world what it was dealing with.
   2. In the 19th century, along with liberal capitalism (in which the state restricted itself to a supervisory role and allowed the private sector to determine architectural aesthetics) neoclassicism lost its hold, but in the 20th century, with increased state regulation of the economy, continuing with the mobilization of the economy during the war, and the near-total intervention during the Depression, it returned.

You really should take notes.

I sure don't need the screwy notes you hoist on us. Artist were given great latitude and freedom when creating murals. The murals almost always depicted regional heritage and historical replications. Anyone can google or yahoo or bing new deal mural images to look at dozens and dozens of murals to see what you are spouting to compare American murals of the New Deal to Nazi era and Stalin era fascist and communist propaganda art is anti American slander.

I saw you in that movie, Alfonso.....

Your classic line: "we don't need no stinkin' education!'

 

[TemplarKormac]

Artists were given great latitude and freedom when creating murals.

That's it?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wow. I see a lot of liberals getting whipped, flogged and crucified in this thread. When I need an education, I seek out PC's threads.

How many examples of collectivism in America can you name?

And while you're at it, how many American artists can you name whose art is designed to encourage a totalitarian takeover of America?

Not just a liar.....but a fool as well.

Just what do you imagine ( I almost said think!!!) the Democrat 'identity politics' is but collectivism?????


Watta dope.

 

[Camp]

Artists were given great latitude and freedom when creating murals.

That's it?

No, I said google or yahoo or bing images of New Deal Images for dozens of examples of murals. It becomes obvious that they do not compare to the propaganda art of the Nazi's or Communist who gave exact instructions to artists of what to produce. A picture is worth a thousand words.
It is obvious that the Nazi and Communist artist did not have the freedom of expression the American artist had.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Wow. I see a lot of liberals getting whipped, flogged and crucified in this thread. When I need an education, I seek out PC's threads.

How many examples of collectivism in America can you name?

And while you're at it, how many American artists can you name whose art is designed to encourage a totalitarian takeover of America?

Not just a liar.....but a fool as well.

Just what do you imagine ( I almost said think!!!) the Democrat 'identity politics' is but collectivism?????


Watta dope.

Identity politics in both parties is what you call collectivism? lol.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The murals almost always depicted regional heritage and historical replications.

Ahh, but ALL art was under the purview of the Proletariat, including murals. "Great latitude" my ass.

As dictated by the core principles of Socialist Realism, all art had to be:

1. Proletarian: art relevant to the workers and understandable to them.
2. Typical: scenes of every day life of the people.
3. Realistic: in the representational sense.
4. Partisan: supportive of the aims of the State and the Party.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wow. I see a lot of liberals getting whipped, flogged and crucified in this thread. When I need an education, I seek out PC's threads.

How many examples of collectivism in America can you name?

And while you're at it, how many American artists can you name whose art is designed to encourage a totalitarian takeover of America?

Not just a liar.....but a fool as well.

Just what do you imagine ( I almost said think!!!) the Democrat 'identity politics' is but collectivism?????


Watta dope.

Identity politics in both parties is what you call collectivism? lol.

So THAT'S why you're known as the NYLiar!!!

 

[Camp]

The murals almost always depicted regional heritage and historical replications.

Ahh, but ALL art was under the purview of the Proletariat, including murals. "Great latitude" my ass.

As dictated by the core principles of Socialist Realism, all art had to be:

1. Proletarian: art relevant to the workers and understandable to them.
2. Typical: scenes of every day life of the people.
3. Realistic: in the representational sense.
4. Partisan: supportive of the aims of the State and the Party.

Not true for New Deal art.
1. Much of the art was about heritage and history of the local area and had nothing to do with relevance to workers, although some did. Your standard was for Nazi and communist propaganda art, not American New Deal art.
2. What is wrong with typical scenes of every day life of the people. Artist have been doing that since there was cave art.
3. Do you even know what that means? How does it support the proletarian art idea?
4. New Deal art didn't do that. It was not party identifiable.

Once again, anyone can view the actual art being discussed and see with their own eyes that you are as full of crap as PC.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. Roosevelt's “Blue Eagle” program, with badges and posters for those who went along with Roosevelt’s New Deal programs, restrictions and regulations, used the methods pioneered by the totalitarian Creel Committee under the Wilson administration, 1917-1918: state control of both the economy and the press; criminalization and prosecution of war critics; restrictions on free speech.


a. Roosevelt put Hugh S. Johnson in charge of the Blue Eagle campaign…and his approach could be summarized in this quote: “…this law stuff doesn’t matter.” John Kennedy Ohl, “Hugh S. Johnson and the New Deal,” p. 102.

[Recall how Lenin added 'enemy of the people' to the penal code when Bolsheviks took over?]


b. According to these folks, this administration, “The public simply cannot tolerate non-compliance with their plan.” Schivelbusch, "Three New Deals," p. 92.

Remember what Rousseau demanded of any who don't subscribe to the 'General Will'?
Right......death.


c. “The bombardment of the public mind [under Roosevelt] bore resemblance to the smashing propaganda drives put on by the Bolshevik and Nazi machines.” Ethan Colton, “Four Patterns of Revolution: Communist USSR, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, New Deal America,” p. 270.




Don't make the mistake of believing that Progressivism/Liberalism is any more than marginally different from Nazism, or Communism, or Fascism...

" The excesses of the European versions of fascism were mitigated by the specific history and culture of America, Jeffersonian individualism, heterogeneity of the population, but the central theme is still an all-encompassing state that centralizes power to perfect human nature by controlling every aspect of life., albeit at the loss of what had hitherfore been accepted as ‘inalienable human rights.’

The dichotomy that is today’s political reality is based on this retreat, as the American left simply flipped from the brown-shirt utopians to the red-flag utopians, parroting Stalin’s rhetoric: anything objectionable is fascist."
Goldberg

 

[TemplarKormac]

The murals almost always depicted regional heritage and historical replications.

Ahh, but ALL art was under the purview of the Proletariat, including murals. "Great latitude" my ass.

As dictated by the core principles of Socialist Realism, all art had to be:

1. Proletarian: art relevant to the workers and understandable to them.
2. Typical: scenes of every day life of the people.
3. Realistic: in the representational sense.
4. Partisan: supportive of the aims of the State and the Party.

Not true for New Deal art.
1. Much of the art was about heritage and history of the local area and had nothing to do with relevance to workers, although some did. Your standard was for Nazi and communist propaganda art, not American New Deal art.
2. What is wrong with typical scenes of every day life of the people. Artist have been doing that since there was cave art.
3. Do you even know what that means? How does it support the proletarian art idea?
4. New Deal art didn't do that. It was not party identifiable.

Once again, anyone can view the actual art being discussed and see with their own eyes that you are as full of crap as PC.

Sorry. You can twist this all you want. There are striking similarities between Socialist realism and New Deal Art, such as these:

This is #1 and #4 on the list:

Most New Deal artists were grateful to President Roosevelt for giving them work and enthusiastically supported the New Deal's liberal agenda. Not surprisingly, their art reflected this point of view. It celebrated the progress made under Franklin Roosevelt and promoted the President and his programs.

A New Deal for the Arts

This is #1, #2 and #3 on the list:

The economic crisis of the 1930s focused the attention of Americans on the lives and struggles of ordinary folk. Not surprisingly, much New Deal art reflected this preoccupation with "the people." Visual artists, writers, filmmakers, and playwrights concentrated many of their creative efforts on the patterns of everyday life, especially the world of work.

A New Deal for the Arts

This is #1, #3, and #4 on the list:

Many politically active artists worked for the New Deal projects. United by a desire to use art to promote social change, these artists sympathized with the labor movement and exhibited an affinity for left-wing politics ranging from New Deal liberalism to socialism to communism. In the extreme, their art became a crude weapon aimed only at exposing capitalism's abuses and exalting the struggles of the working class.

A New Deal for the Arts

Thank you, but it seems PC is correct. Again.

 

[Camp]

The murals almost always depicted regional heritage and historical replications.

Ahh, but ALL art was under the purview of the Proletariat, including murals. "Great latitude" my ass.

As dictated by the core principles of Socialist Realism, all art had to be:

1. Proletarian: art relevant to the workers and understandable to them.
2. Typical: scenes of every day life of the people.
3. Realistic: in the representational sense.
4. Partisan: supportive of the aims of the State and the Party.

Not true for New Deal art.
1. Much of the art was about heritage and history of the local area and had nothing to do with relevance to workers, although some did. Your standard was for Nazi and communist propaganda art, not American New Deal art.
2. What is wrong with typical scenes of every day life of the people. Artist have been doing that since there was cave art.
3. Do you even know what that means? How does it support the proletarian art idea?
4. New Deal art didn't do that. It was not party identifiable.

Once again, anyone can view the actual art being discussed and see with their own eyes that you are as full of crap as PC.

Sorry. You can twist this all you want. There are striking similarities between Socialist realism and New Deal Art, such as these:

This is #1 and #4 on the list:

Most New Deal artists were grateful to President Roosevelt for giving them work and enthusiastically supported the New Deal's liberal agenda. Not surprisingly, their art reflected this point of view. It celebrated the progress made under Franklin Roosevelt and promoted the President and his programs.

A New Deal for the Arts

This is #1, #2 and #3 on the list:

The economic crisis of the 1930s focused the attention of Americans on the lives and struggles of ordinary folk. Not surprisingly, much New Deal art reflected this preoccupation with "the people." Visual artists, writers, filmmakers, and playwrights concentrated many of their creative efforts on the patterns of everyday life, especially the world of work.

A New Deal for the Arts

This is #1, #3, and #4 on the list:

Many politically active artists worked for the New Deal projects. United by a desire to use art to promote social change, these artists sympathized with the labor movement and exhibited an affinity for left-wing politics ranging from New Deal liberalism to socialism to communism. In the extreme, their art became a crude weapon aimed only at exposing capitalism's abuses and exalting the struggles of the working class.

A New Deal for the Arts

Thank you, but it seems PC is correct. Again.

What you have posted has no similarities to Nazi's and communist giving specific instructions to artist to produce specific art to depict specific agenda's. The American artist were allowed to create art that depicted their own views and motives, not those dictated by the government. No one was making them produce the art they produced. They produced what was their choice to produce.
The only guidelines given to the American artist were that they depict "American scenes". You guys are just pissed off at what the artist who were representative of the period wanted to depict. It had nothing to do with your conspiracy theory that there was some kind of malicious pressure put on the artist to depict fascist propaganda. Is it big news to you that artist are progressive and forward thinkers? Leonardo was and so are most artist.
And once again, interested parties should view the art themselves to determine who is being truthful and accurate.

smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/1934-the-art-of-the-new-deal-132242698/?no-ist

 

[TemplarKormac]

The only guidelines given to the American artist were that they depict "American scenes"

LOL. Thanks for making my point.

 

[Camp]

The only guidelines given to the American artist were that they depict "American scenes"

LOL. Thanks for making my point.

You never had a point to make other than New Deal art was the same as Nazi and communist propaganda art. It was a ridiculous falsehood to start with. If you had an examples you would have posted them. It's art. They are images. You can see them. There is nothing mysterious, complicated of secretive about it. New Deal artist were asked to make depictions of American scenes. Nazi propaganda artist were asked to make depictions of Jews abusing small German children or Superhuman Aryan soldiers saving the oppressed Germans from the Jew or Russian hoards. See the difference.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Thank god TK came here to rescue PC.

 

[Camp]

Thank god TK came here to rescue PC.

The second string comes in and kills the thread when her arms get tired of treading water. Readers of the threads win by getting good information and links about FDR and the New Deal. I have even managed to post some entertaining stuff. On another thread I posted a 5 minute MC ride on the Blue Ridge Parkway.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Thank god TK came here to rescue PC.

This is your attempt to save face????

Memo: you can't save what you never had.

See if you can follow this:
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead: it's only a reality for others. And that relates to you: it's the same when you're stupid.