As predicted - Study shows Seattle $15 min wage result is less hours and 5000 less jobs

[The Derp]

No such thing no matter how many times you chant your idiotic religious beliefs.

So then how would you describe huge tax cuts for the wealthy?

 

[danielpalos]

Well sure....if you spend beyond your means you will have a bigger house and fancier automobiles than me - in the short term. But then the bill will come due, snowflake. When it does (and it's about to in Illinois), they will file bankruptcy and lose their pensions while Kansas will carry on.

Kansas did carry on - by repealing trickle-down economics

No such thing no matter how many times you chant your idiotic religious beliefs.

did you know, all you have is your unsubstantiated opinion. you need to substantiate your currently unsubstantiated opinion, with a valid argument.

 

[Iceweasel]

No such thing no matter how many times you chant your idiotic religious beliefs.

So then how would you describe huge tax cuts for the wealthy?

Tax cuts for everyone isn't "tax cuts for the wealthy". Your religion preaches socialism and you are a devoted disciple, we get it.

 

[The Derp]

Tax cuts for everyone isn't "tax cuts for the wealthy". Your religion preaches socialism and you are a devoted disciple, we get it.

It's adorable how you think Brownback's tax cuts weren't for the wealthy. I think that's called "willful delusion".

 

[Iceweasel]

Tax cuts for everyone isn't "tax cuts for the wealthy". Your religion preaches socialism and you are a devoted disciple, we get it.

It's adorable how you think Brownback's tax cuts weren't for the wealthy. I think that's called "willful delusion".

Translation = derpderpderpderpderpderpderp

 

[The Derp]

derpderpderpderpderpderpderp

Blind ignorance. Thing is, I know you know you're being dishonest and purposefully obtuse. That's because you recognize your position is wrong. So we get little tantrums like what I quoted above.

 

[danielpalos]

Tax cuts for everyone isn't "tax cuts for the wealthy". Your religion preaches socialism and you are a devoted disciple, we get it.

It's adorable how you think Brownback's tax cuts weren't for the wealthy. I think that's called "willful delusion".

I call it, right wing fallacy induced fantasy. Or, right wing fantasy, for short.

 

[danielpalos]

Tax cuts for everyone isn't "tax cuts for the wealthy". Your religion preaches socialism and you are a devoted disciple, we get it.

It's adorable how you think Brownback's tax cuts weren't for the wealthy. I think that's called "willful delusion".

Translation = derpderpderpderpderpderpderp

Go to the thread where the right wing blames the left for having nothing but emotion instead of reason, and say that

 

[P@triot]

Meanwhile, Illinois implemented failed left-wing flood up poverty economics. I'll take trickle-down prosperity over flood up poverty any time.

How'd they do that?

By implementing failed economic policy. Like cadillac pension plans for state employees. You can't pay people not to work (especially when you still have to pay other people to work). It's unsustainable. Now all of the left-wing idiots around the country will chant their usual idiotic line "but....but.....but....just raise taxes!".

You people literally have no concept of wealth or how it is generated. It's like the idiotic left-wing chant of "infrastructure". If we just tax people for government to pay other people to repave existing roads, we'll having a "thriving" economy. Well...by that idiotic left-wing logic....the government could just pay people to dig a hole in their backyard every other day and fill it back in on the other days. But all that would do is collapse the U.S. economy.

Like I said - you people literally have no idea what wealth is or how it is generated.

 

[NightFox]

Nobody, apparently you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

But that's what you said. You said that if wages are increased, that will raise prices. It was the cornerstone of your argument. Now you're completely abandoning it? Wow, dude.

No, that's not what I said, what I actually said was this (which wasn't the "cornerstone" of anything but was simply correcting your faulty reasoning) -->

Not necessarily, it could also indicate an increase in per unit price (revenue = qty * price), but if you increase prices the law of demand dictates that all else being equal demand will decrease, therefore in order to be able to increase prices without decreasing demand some other non price determinate (e.g. you start producing a product with new features that are in higher demand) would have to change and cause a rightward shift of the demand curve.

Which was in response to your assertion -->

But if your Sales revenue is increasing, then that would indicate increased demand,

Again you need to work on your reading skills.

Beyond that allow me to help you out since you are apparently trying to present a justification for a minimum wage by arguing against the well understand market effects of a binding price floor (dead weight loss due to demand contraction) which means you're attempting to argue against what is accepted by every credible economist on Earth.

From an economic standpoint there are 2 ways to justify the imposition of a binding price floor (minimum wage)

1. To address a negative externality imposed by low wages; one poster in this thread (Timmy) actually pointed one out (without considering all the other ramifications), which was : low wages cause workers to seek and qualify for transfer payments from the welfare state thus imposing a cost on others not involved in the transaction, this effect can be quantified and compared directly against the dead weight loss created by the imposition of the binding price floor.

2.To create a positive externality for example: mandating a higher minimum wage *might* reduce crime rates among the working poor (which of course benefits others not involved in the transaction)

In either case you're talking about a government imposed distortion of the market and any potential benefits have to be weighed against the economic costs (dead weight loss) that will be inflicted on the rest of society.

 

[The Derp]

By implementing failed economic policy. Like cadillac pension plans for state employees

That's not economic policy, that's fiscal policy. The economics of pensions are failed, how? The fiscal troubles of Illinois have not shown any impact on the economy of the state, as its GDP, job growth, and business creation rates were all higher than the grand right-wing experiment of Kansas. Illinois continues to be one of the strongest-performing economies in the nation, thanks to Chicago and not to the welfare queens that live in the red part of the state. And for IL's recent economic struggles, the fiscal state of their budget isn't the cause or contributor to it.

You can't pay people not to work (especially when you still have to pay other people to work). It's unsustainable. Now all of the left-wing idiots around the country will chant their usual idiotic line "but....but.....but....just raise taxes!".

Raising taxes raises revenue which then is used to pay pensions. It's not a hard model to discern. The state has already made these pension obligations, so repealing them for people currently using them makes no sense and would be impossible anyway, not to mention probably unconstitutional for the state of IL. BTW - IL has had a Conservative governor since 2012.

You people literally have no concept of wealth or how it is generated.

I think this is just projection on your part. For you guys, you never really articulate how wealth is generated. You chant "free market" three times, twirl around clockwise, click your heels three times, and wish it really hard. That's why Bush and the Conservatives had to create a mortgage bubble in 2004; the economy was failing thanks to his tax cuts and to avoid getting creamed in the 2004 election, they sloppily, lazily, and haphazardly slapped together a subprime mortgage bubble, while encouraging people to use their homes as ATMs to make the economy look like it was growing when it wasn't. Here's a handy chart showing Bush/Conservative economic growth with Mortgage Equity Withdrawals and without MEW's:

And wealth creation!? LOL! Not with COnservatives. Conservatives do debt creation, not wealth creation, as we see in this chart which shows household debt spiking every time taxes are cut:

Notice the spikes? Both right around the tax cuts. So when you talk about how you guys are all about "wealth creation", what you really mean is "wealth addition" for the wealthy and "debt creation" for everyone else. That's the result of your policies, in black, white, red, and blue.

It's like the idiotic left-wing chant of "infrastructure". If we just tax people for government to pay other people to repave existing roads, we'll having a "thriving" economy. Well...by that idiotic left-wing logic....the government could just pay people to dig a hole in their backyard every other day and fill it back in on the other days. But all that would do is collapse the U.S. economy.

Rebuilding infrastructure would collapse our economy? Huh? Have you ever driven on roads before? I live in Atlanta, and in the last 6 months, we've had a freeway collapse, another freeway buckle, and several sinkholes throughout midtown streets. And you think that we don't need to revitalize infrastructure? LOL. OK, dude...whatever.

 

[P@triot]

It's like the idiotic left-wing chant of "infrastructure". If we just tax people for government to pay other people to repave existing roads, we'll having a "thriving" economy. Well...by that idiotic left-wing logic....the government could just pay people to dig a hole in their backyard every other day and fill it back in on the other days. But all that would do is collapse the U.S. economy.

Rebuilding infrastructure would collapse our economy? Huh? Have you ever driven on roads before? I live in Atlanta, and in the last 6 months, we've had a freeway collapse, another freeway buckle, and several sinkholes throughout midtown streets. And you think that we don't need to revitalize infrastructure? LOL. OK, dude...whatever.

So to be clear - you believe paying people to dig a hole every other day in their backyard and then fill it back in on the other days will result in economic prosperity?

 

[P@triot]

By implementing failed economic policy. Like cadillac pension plans for state employees

That's not economic policy, that's fiscal policy. The economics of pensions are failed, how?

How? Their pensions consume 100% of their budget. Did you really need that explained to you?

 

[P@triot]

It's like the idiotic left-wing chant of "infrastructure". If we just tax people for government to pay other people to repave existing roads, we'll having a "thriving" economy. Well...by that idiotic left-wing logic....the government could just pay people to dig a hole in their backyard every other day and fill it back in on the other days. But all that would do is collapse the U.S. economy.

Rebuilding infrastructure would collapse our economy? Huh?

I didn't say that. Either you're lying or you have a very serious reading comprehension issue. Care to share with the class which? My money is on lying. That's what the left does the most.

 

[P@triot]

Raising taxes raises revenue which then is used to pay pensions. It's not a hard model to discern.

Yep. And raising taxes also causes businesses to stop hiring people, cut hours, and terminate employment - as we've already established thanks to the Seattle study. It too is not a hard concept to "discern"...unless one is a hard-core left-wing ideologue who refuses to accept reality over ideology.

There is one more huge issue with the "just tax yourself into prosperity" idiocy. Business owners will be unable to compete. They will eventually just say "fuck it" and move their operations to tax-friendly states. The IRS tax data proves it:

High Tax States are Losing Taxpayers

 

[danielpalos]

Meanwhile, Illinois implemented failed left-wing flood up poverty economics. I'll take trickle-down prosperity over flood up poverty any time.

How'd they do that?

By implementing failed economic policy. Like cadillac pension plans for state employees. You can't pay people not to work (especially when you still have to pay other people to work). It's unsustainable. Now all of the left-wing idiots around the country will chant their usual idiotic line "but....but.....but....just raise taxes!".

You people literally have no concept of wealth or how it is generated. It's like the idiotic left-wing chant of "infrastructure". If we just tax people for government to pay other people to repave existing roads, we'll having a "thriving" economy. Well...by that idiotic left-wing logic....the government could just pay people to dig a hole in their backyard every other day and fill it back in on the other days. But all that would do is collapse the U.S. economy.

Like I said - you people literally have no idea what wealth is or how it is generated.

Our war on drugs, forces people with a work ethic, to not work.

 

[hadit]

Make no mistake, when Conservatives talk about "small business ownres" they're talking about the brats who think they're entitled to own a business and pay workers shitty wages. "Entitlement" is synonymous with "Conservatism".

Wow, what a totally moronic thing to say. Are you SURE you want us to think you believe that kind of stupidity?

 

[P@triot]

Our war on drugs, forces people with a work ethic, to not work.

 

[P@triot]

Ok...come on now The Derp and danielpalos...give us all of those bat-shit crazy posts in a panic to try and explain the reality you don't want to accept.

In a paper published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, researchers from the school's Daniel J. Evans School of Public Policy and Governance found that the city's current minimum wage of $13 an hour for smaller employers increased hourly wages by about 3%. To lower workforce costs, however, employers decreased hours by about 9%, resulting in lower take-home pay for low-wage workers, about $125 less per month.

"The wages went up, but the loss of hours was sufficiently large that on balance though they make more per hour, they made less money overall," said professor Robert Plotnick, one of the study's authors.

Nothing ends in failure like left-wing policy...

UW study: Seattle's increased minimum wage hurts workers

 

[danielpalos]

Our war on drugs, forces people with a work ethic, to not work.

Employment at will, requires, Individual Liberty, not for-profit prisons.