As predicted - Study shows Seattle $15 min wage result is less hours and 5000 less jobs

[NYcarbineer]

The study left out large employers. Tell us why.

Why didn't you read the NYT article?

Large businesses
There could be another explanation for the results, however: the fact that large employers are not included. It could be that even if employers with only a single location cut payrolls, large firms expanded at the same time, giving low-wage workers other opportunities to earn money.

Other researchers have found that large employers are better able to raise wages in response to changes in the minimum. Liberal economists often argue workers have less bargaining power when negotiating their contracts at larger firms, and that as a result, employees at those companies are often underpaid in the absence of a wage floor.

"I think they underestimate hugely the wage gains, and they overestimate hugely the employment loss," said Michael Reich, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley who was part of a group that published its own study of the minimum wage in Seattle last week.

Reich's study uses more conventional methods in research on the minimum wage, relying on a publicly available federal survey. His group's data did not allow the researchers to distinguish between high- and low-wage workers at a given firm, but they were able to separate large firms' locations in Seattle from those outside the city.

Their results from the University of California accorded with past research. The minimum wage increased wages for workers in the restaurant industry, without reducing employment overall -- in contrast to the findings from the University of Washington.

 

[Divine Wind]

Small businesses are always the hardest hit by crazy liberal policies.

No they're not. They're hardest hit by Conservative policies that reduce revenues, reduce growth, and kill jobs. Like what happened in Kansas.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. The Middle Class has been bearing the brunt of both Republican and Democratic economic politicies for the past few decades and the result is a decline in the Middle Class.

America’s Shrinking Middle Class: A Close Look at Changes Within Metropolitan Areas

The Decline Of The US Middle Class Is Getting Even Worse [CHARTS]

 

[The Derp]

It did happen you halfwit.

No it didn't. Did you read the link about Seattle not seeing a corresponding price increase? Here, I'll link it for you again, and because I'm such a nice guy I'll even quote from it:

After A Year, Seattle’s New Minimum Wage Hasn’t Raised Retail Prices
Business owners did a bunch of handwringing about how damaging to the economy the wage increase would be. But so far, they’re wrong.
More than a year after a new minimum wage took effect in Seattle–$12.50an hour now for small employers, increasing to $15 an hour by January 2018–prices at most stores haven’t gone up.

new report, researchers from the University of Washington presented data that showed “little or no evidence” of price increases in most sectors. Before the minimum wage law took effect, most retailers said they would have to charge more–and most low-wage workers were worried that they would have to spend more for necessities. So far, that hasn’t happened.

The researchers also checked the prices of things like rent and gas, because they wanted to understand how the law might affect the biggest expenses for low-income families. Those didn’t change either–not a surprising finding, since apartments and gas stations don’t rely on much labor.

The steady prices in the retail sector were more unexpected. “We looked in grocery stores, drugstores, and other types of retail outlets–we were focusing once again on places where your middle class or low-income families would be more likely to shop,” says Jacob Vigdor, a public policy professor at the University of Washington. “The fact that we didn’t find very many price increases in those types of outlets was a little bit more surprising to us.”​

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So you totally ignored the part where the restaurant owner said she raised prices and added a service charge.

Willfully blind....

So what? Is it that important to you that people work for shit wages so you can save 50 cents on a crappy burger?

It's going to happen across the board you nitwit!!
Everywhere there are min wage workers you're going to pay a higher price.

So what? Do you really want to live in a country that depends on a huge class of working poor to sustain the well off?

lol, who am I asking....

Ya stupid fuck....
The min wage earners are going to pay the inflated prices as well.

lol, are foo foo Seattle restaurants filled with minimum wage earners, as customers?

So you're telling me min wage workers dont shop where min wage workers work?
Good lord you liberals are stupid.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It did happen you halfwit.

No it didn't. Did you read the link about Seattle not seeing a corresponding price increase? Here, I'll link it for you again, and because I'm such a nice guy I'll even quote from it:

After A Year, Seattle’s New Minimum Wage Hasn’t Raised Retail Prices
Business owners did a bunch of handwringing about how damaging to the economy the wage increase would be. But so far, they’re wrong.
More than a year after a new minimum wage took effect in Seattle–$12.50an hour now for small employers, increasing to $15 an hour by January 2018–prices at most stores haven’t gone up.

new report, researchers from the University of Washington presented data that showed “little or no evidence” of price increases in most sectors. Before the minimum wage law took effect, most retailers said they would have to charge more–and most low-wage workers were worried that they would have to spend more for necessities. So far, that hasn’t happened.

The researchers also checked the prices of things like rent and gas, because they wanted to understand how the law might affect the biggest expenses for low-income families. Those didn’t change either–not a surprising finding, since apartments and gas stations don’t rely on much labor.

The steady prices in the retail sector were more unexpected. “We looked in grocery stores, drugstores, and other types of retail outlets–we were focusing once again on places where your middle class or low-income families would be more likely to shop,” says Jacob Vigdor, a public policy professor at the University of Washington. “The fact that we didn’t find very many price increases in those types of outlets was a little bit more surprising to us.”​

I gave you a quote from the article that said just that you moron.

 

[The Derp]

So you're telling me min wage workers dont shop where min wage workers work?
Good lord you liberals are stupid.

You're telling us those places will increase their prices, but the empirical evidence from Seattle from just last year proves the opposite.

So that means either Seattle is an outlier, or your belief system is full of shit.

 

[The Derp]

I gave you a quote from the article that said just that you moron.

Did you? Or did you chop and de-contextualize it? You all made the claim that Seattle raising the MW would result in job loss and price increases. Neither happened after 2 years. So that means either Seattle is a weird outlier, or you all have been talking out of your behind.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I gave you a quote from the article that said just that you moron.

Did you? Or did you chop and de-contextualize it? You all made the claim that Seattle raising the MW would result in job loss and price increases. Neither happened after 2 years. So that means either Seattle is a weird outlier, or you all have been talking out of your behind.

Read the fukin article nitwit.

 

[IsaacNewton]

I guess the question is, how do the businesses that DO stay in business and pay the minimum wage, stay in business? And why wouldn't the rest do that?

And why now do conservatives not want the marketplace to work as it should?




Why indeed are there interstate highways in Hawaii. The world, may never know.

 

[Divine Wind]

The study left out large employers. Tell us why.

Why didn't you read the NYT article?

Tell me why and quit being an idiot.

Don't worry about it. I'm sure the NYT article is far above your grade level and would simply be gibberish to you. Feel free to go find a comic section someplace.

 

[Rustic]

I guess the question is, how do the businesses that DO stay in business and pay the minimum wage, stay in business? And why wouldn't the rest do that?

And why now do conservatives not want the marketplace to work as it should?




Why indeed are there interstate highways in Hawaii. The world, may never know.

Where would the business be without the owner? why open a business if not for profit? Who takes all the risk and responsibility with a business the owner or the employees?
If the federal government dictates the wages that a small business pays, who really owns that business?

 

[The Derp]

Read the fukin article nitwit.

The only instance you could point to was one quote from one person saying they were going to raise prices and add a service fee. How much? They don't say. But the larger trend indicates prices did not increase according to Conservative "wisdom".

BTW - the study that supports my argument is also a University of Washington study. But unlike the studies in your article, that one was peer reviewed.

 

[The Derp]

Where would the business be without the owner? why open a business if not for profit? Who takes all the risk and responsibility with a business the owner or the employees?

It is entitlement to demand your workers work for wages below a livable wage just so you can own a business.

If you cannot operate a business successfully and pay your workers a decent wage, then maybe business ownership isn't for you and you shouldn't feel entitled to owning a business.

 

[The Derp]

If the federal government dictates the wages that a small business pays, who really owns that business?

If you think you're entitled to owning a business, then the people who work for you are entitled to a livable wage.

 

[Rustic]

Where would the business be without the owner? why open a business if not for profit? Who takes all the risk and responsibility with a business the owner or the employees?

It is entitlement to demand your workers work for wages below a livable wage just so you can own a business.

If you cannot operate a business successfully and pay your workers a decent wage, then maybe business ownership isn't for you and you shouldn't feel entitled to owning a business.

Why even own a business if you can't make a profit? Only a fool would own a business just to hire people…

 

[ColonelAngus]

Not if you need someone to make you hamburgers.
Look at San Fran. They can't staff retail storefronts.
You seem to know business well.
If you own a cafe in Seattle, and your labor costs go up by 30% overnight, what would you specifically do to pay for those additional labor costs?

I would do a better job of advertising my business so those people whose wages increased 30% spent their increased earnings at my business. How would you do it? Be lazy?

You would counter the wage increase by increasing your advertising expenses so that your business would attract other minimum wage workers?

That's it, that's the strategy?

 

[The Derp]

Why even own a business if you can't make a profit? Only a fool would own a business just to hire people…

Right...and if you cannot make a profit and pay your workers a livable wage, then you shouldn't own a business. Business ownership isn't for everyone.

 

[The Derp]

You would counter the wage increase by increasing your advertising expenses so that your business would attract other minimum wage workers?

Ummm, no. I'm attracting consumers. I don't care how much they get paid or where they work, so long as their money is green. Like I said, if you are so shitty a business owner that you cannot get people to patronize your business, then why the fuck should you be entitled to pay people low wages????

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Read the fukin article nitwit.

The only instance you could point to was one quote from one person saying they were going to raise prices and add a service fee. How much? They don't say. But the larger trend indicates prices did not increase according to Conservative "wisdom".

BTW - the study that supports my argument is also a University of Washington study. But unlike the studies in your article, that one was peer reviewed.

The article stated that neither were peer reviewed.

 

[Divine Wind]

I guess the question is, how do the businesses that DO stay in business and pay the minimum wage, stay in business? And why wouldn't the rest do that?

And why now do conservatives not want the marketplace to work as it should?




Why indeed are there interstate highways in Hawaii. The world, may never know.

Automation is one reason. Mandatory wage laws have a smaller impact on corporations because they can downsize departments, if not eliminated them, and automate where necessary. Smaller businesses can't afford to do either and face elimination by corporations. Mom and Pop restaurants and stores can't cope as easily as McDonald's and Walmart.

If we were able to automate certain non-value-added processes in the restaurant, we would do that because that’s a smart thing to do. But then that gives us more opportunity to bring back that manpower to the front of the house where we can offer a better dining area experience,” Easterbrook said.

The article below is interesting to me because of both what it says and what it doesn't say. CEO Easterbrook is obviously in "PR mode", but a statement claiming no jobs will be eliminated is not the same as saying we'll create more jobs. It appears to me he's saying they'll keep the same number of employees even as they continue to open more franchises. The difference will be covered by automation.


McDonald's CEO: robots won't replace workers despite tech opportunities
McDonald’s expects to roll out table service at 400 stores in the UK by the end of this year. “I don’t see it as being a risk to job elimination. It might change the nature of the jobs in our restaurants.”

I don’t see it as being a risk to job elimination. It might change the nature of the jobs in our restaurants

Steve Easterbrook
Earlier in the meeting Easterbrook said that the strategy at the core of the company’s turnaround plan was putting customers “back at the center of everything we do” and adapting to customers instead of asking customers to adapt to the company.

“Frankly, technology is something that our customers are embracing,” he said. “We want to adapt to that. It is not actually meant to be labor replacement. We can just reapportion that labor into that more service-oriented roles,”he said.

Two days before the shareholders’ annual meeting, former US boss Ed Rensi told Fox Business that “it’s cheaper to buy a $35,000 robotic arm than it is to hire an employee who’s inefficient, making $15 an hour bagging french fries”.