Attention, gun control supporters:

[The Rabbi]

Wrong.

Facts aren't important silly rabbit. This is about what FEELS right...

You two are just another Laurel and Hardy.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

PBS is your source? Haha! What a maroon.

 

[Rinata]

Facts aren't important silly rabbit. This is about what FEELS right...

You two are just another Laurel and Hardy.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

PBS is your source? Haha! What a maroon.

Did you even read it?? You won't read it or accept any source that does not support your right wing bat crap crazy ideas!!! Try to get some interest in trying to fix the wrong in this world instead of only thinking of yourself.

What is a maroon???

 

[GuyPinestra]

You two are just another Laurel and Hardy.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

PBS is your source? Haha! What a maroon.

Did you even read it?? You won't read it or accept any source that does not support your right wing bat crap crazy ideas!!! Try to get some interest in trying to fix the wrong in this world instead of only thinking of yourself.

What is a maroon???

I read it, Rinata, and it basically says the same thing Daveman's chart says.

And we already have laws against straw purchasers and illegal sales, so what do you propose to DO?

 

[Bfgrn]

"How strict would gun laws have to be to prevent massacres?"

Strict enough to prevent a criminal from buying guns in the safety, comfort and sanction of a gun show without having a background check run on him. There IS a loophole in the gun show law that allows a big gun dealer to pose as little uncle Joe selling a gun or two, and circumvent doing a background check.

FACT: Gun sellers who claim to be “occasional sellers” are not required by current federal law to conduct background checks on their customers. Furthermore, there is no clear definition of how many guns a person can sell as an “occasional seller” – it could be dozens, or even hundreds.

The Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) states: 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(D), (22). Those not “engaged in the business” of dealing guns are exempt from the licensure requirement.

So, closing the gun show loophole would not punish any law abiding gun owner.

And, as citizens, we can't stop a criminal from buying an illegal firearm from the trunk of another criminal in some dark alley.

But, that's where the criminal should be forced to buy a gun. In a totally illegal setting, with all the inherent dangers that come with it. BUT, our current laws sanction criminals being able to walk into a gun show, receive expert advice, discounts, then buy whatever weapon(s) they desire without a background check or having to pay black market prices or risk the dangers of buying a weapon from another criminal in a dark alley.

Here is some info on the loophole...

What is the gun show loophole?

Federal law allows people who sell guns to avoid running background checks or keeping records by calling themselves occasional sellers, and these sellers often congregate at gun shows. The loophole provides criminals with easy access to firearms without having to worry about any background checks.

• Current law requires licensed gun dealers to conduct background checks, because that is the only way to determine whether a person is eligible to buy a gun. Licensed dealers must also keep records about the buyer so ATF can trace the gun if it is recovered at a crime scene.
  

• The law does not, however, require so-called occasional sellers to do these checks – and there’s no clear definition of what qualifies as an occasional seller.[ii]

• Many sellers at gun shows abuse that loophole by calling themselves occasional sellers. Because they concentrate at gun shows, it is easy for felons and other prohibited possessors to find someone who will sell to them without a background check.

...........*ATF concluded that “gun shows and flea markets are a major venue for illegal trafficking.”[iii]

• Gun shows linked to the Pentagon Shooting: In March 2010, John Bedell – who was prohibited by law from possessing guns – shot two Pentagon police officers with a gun purchased from a private seller at a Las Vegas gun show.

• Gun shows were tied to a broad range of violations, including straw purchases and the sale of kits to convert legal guns into illegal machine guns.

Solution: Require occasional sellers to run instant background checks.

 

[The Rabbi]

Bigfuckingmoran again misses the point. There is a law against unlicensed gun dealers. There is no law against an individual selling his own private property. Anyone with an FFL is a dealer, period.

Geezus. I've been a dealer for 7 years. I am very familiar with the law. There is no "gun show loophole." And in any case criminals do not get guns at gunshows but through an underground economy of stolen guns.

 

[Contumacious]

"How strict would gun laws have to be to prevent massacres?"

Strict enough to prevent a criminal from buying guns in the safety, comfort and sanction of a gun show without having a background check run on him. s.

Mr. Dumb Fuck, Sir:

Can you buy cocaine, heroin, marihuana at a local elementary school?

Can a criminal buy a firearm in the blackmarket?

Admit that yo are merely advancing an agenda which has nothing to do with the prevention of crime.

.

 

[Bfgrn]

Bigfuckingmoran again misses the point. There is a law against unlicensed gun dealers. There is no law against an individual selling his own private property. Anyone with an FFL is a dealer, period.

Geezus. I've been a dealer for 7 years. I am very familiar with the law. There is no "gun show loophole." And in any case criminals do not get guns at gunshows but through an underground economy of stolen guns.

Hey moron...gun dealers are exploiting the system. Is that beyond the comprehension of your tiny little brain? This was uncovered by investigators with hidden cameras. These so-called private sellers are supposed to be making only occasional sales. According to federal law, they cannot be "engaged in the business" of selling firearms. But that's exactly what was found; private sellers with large inventories doing a brisk business. In fact, one private seller acknowledged selling 348 guns in less than a year.


Private Gun Sale Loophole Creates Invisible Firearms Market

More than a decade ago, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold opened fire on their classmates at Columbine High School using a semiautomatic rifle, pistol and shotguns they purchased through acquaintances who had visited a local gun show. There was no required record of the sale and no background check; just an exchange of cash and a handshake.

In March 2010, John Patrick Bedell strolled up to the Pentagon and started shooting at two police officers with a semiautomatic handgun. Months before the attack, he tried to buy a gun in California but was denied, after a background check showed he had a documented history of mental illness. So Bedell instead went to neighboring Nevada, where gun laws are more lenient, and bought a 9mm handgun from a private seller who didn't have to check out his history.

Both incidents point to a major loophole in the nation's system of regulating firearms, experts say: Private parties can buy and sell guns in many parts of the country with little or no scrutiny from state and federal authorities. Nearly 40 percent of gun transactions in America occur through so-called private party sales, creating a secondary firearms market that is largely invisible.

More than three-quarters of states have no laws requiring background checks or documentation during private party sales, increasing the risk of weapons falling into the hands of convicted felons, juveniles or those who are mentally ill. As lawmakers in Washington examine gun control measures in the wake of last week's school massacre in Connecticut, many advocates and researchers are pushing to extend federal regulations requiring background checks and registrations to private gun sales.

"Fixing this would be one of the single most important things we could do to address overall gun violence," said David Kennedy, director of the Center for Crime Prevention and Control at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. "A lot of people don't understand that this is the way the world works. It means that people who everybody agrees shouldn't get guns have little trouble getting guns."

Under the current system, federal law on gun purchases extends only to the first point of sale. Federally licensed firearms dealers are required to perform background checks on prospective buyers to screen out those with felony records, a history of domestic violence or mental illness and several other categories. Dealers are also required to keep detailed records of customers.

On private party sales, none of those restrictions apply under federal rules. States come up with their own laws governing the secondary gun market, and the restrictions vary widely, leaving an uneven patchwork of regulations from state to state.

 

[The Rabbi]

Hey, idiot, what they're doing is already illegal. It is illegal to be engaged in the business of dealing firearms without a license.
It is not illegal to sell one's own personal property.

Doubtless the distinction is lost on a lame-brain like you.

 

[Rinata]

PBS is your source? Haha! What a maroon.

Did you even read it?? You won't read it or accept any source that does not support your right wing bat crap crazy ideas!!! Try to get some interest in trying to fix the wrong in this world instead of only thinking of yourself.

What is a maroon???

I read it, Rinata, and it basically says the same thing Daveman's chart says.

And we already have laws against straw purchasers and illegal sales, so what do you propose to DO?

Apparently the laws are not working!! They need to be changed or maybe all of the gun dealers are crooked. I don't know. But something is not right here.

 

[The Rabbi]

Did you even read it?? You won't read it or accept any source that does not support your right wing bat crap crazy ideas!!! Try to get some interest in trying to fix the wrong in this world instead of only thinking of yourself.

What is a maroon???

I read it, Rinata, and it basically says the same thing Daveman's chart says.

And we already have laws against straw purchasers and illegal sales, so what do you propose to DO?

Apparently the laws are not working!! They need to be changed or maybe all of the gun dealers are crooked. I don't know. But something is not right here.

You're right. The laws dont work. Why would adding more laws suddenly work?

 

[GuyPinestra]

Did you even read it?? You won't read it or accept any source that does not support your right wing bat crap crazy ideas!!! Try to get some interest in trying to fix the wrong in this world instead of only thinking of yourself.

What is a maroon???

I read it, Rinata, and it basically says the same thing Daveman's chart says.

And we already have laws against straw purchasers and illegal sales, so what do you propose to DO?

Apparently the laws are not working!! They need to be changed or maybe all of the gun dealers are crooked. I don't know. But something is not right here.

So your solution is MORE laws that won't work?

 

[Rinata]

You people are absolutely hopeless!!! Talking to you is like spitting the wind.

 

[PaulS1950]

Drunk drivers have their licenses revoked but still drive cars and kill people.
There are laws in place that keep criminals from having or using guns but they still get and use guns to kill people (though not as many as drunk drivers).
We don't ban cars to keep the drunks from driving but it is perfectly OK to ban guns to keep criminals from having them?

How does that make sense? We don't punish all drivers for the actions of some drunk drivers but we punish all gun owners for the actions of criminals. More people are killed by drunk drivers than in firearm related deaths but the guns are evil?

Use your brain and think about this - it really is about controlling citizens and not about crime at all.

 

[GuyPinestra]

You people are absolutely hopeless!!! Talking to you is like spitting the wind.

IOW... "I've been made to look the fool, I'll go run and hide now... "

 

[daveman]

You people are absolutely hopeless!!! Talking to you is like spitting the wind.

I think if you'll review the thread, you'll find it's you and others like you who believe two mutually-exclusive ideas:

1. Criminals don't obey laws.

2. We need more laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

I understand why you're lashing out. It must be a terrible thing, holding such contradictory ideas. Like believing the sun comes up in the east, and simultaneously believing it comes up in the west.

That way lies madness.

 

[jtpr312]

Drunk drivers have their licenses revoked but still drive cars and kill people.
There are laws in place that keep criminals from having or using guns but they still get and use guns to kill people (though not as many as drunk drivers).
We don't ban cars to keep the drunks from driving but it is perfectly OK to ban guns to keep criminals from having them?

How does that make sense? We don't punish all drivers for the actions of some drunk drivers but we punish all gun owners for the actions of criminals. More people are killed by drunk drivers than in firearm related deaths but the guns are evil?

Use your brain and think about this - it really is about controlling citizens and not about crime at all.

And that's the moment you lost them. They have no brains.

 

[Koios]

How are you going to get criminals to obey the law?


I've never gotten a rational, workable answer to this question in all the years I've asked it on this and other boards.

Improve their employment prospects when they get out, if they're non violent offenders.

That way they won't shoot anyone, since work and not crime gets them fed and a roof over their heads.

But then, they're not using guns nearly as much any more. Word is out that arrested with a gun gets about 5 times as much time behind bars. So murder rates are way down, already.

But tougher regs on gun storage, carry laws etc. might help, since one thing that's not going down is accidental shooting by good, god-fearing, law abiding folks.

 

[jtpr312]

How are you going to get criminals to obey the law?


I've never gotten a rational, workable answer to this question in all the years I've asked it on this and other boards.

Improve their employment prospects when they get out, if they're non violent offenders.

That way they won't shoot anyone, since work and not crime gets them fed and a roof over their heads.

But then, they're not using guns nearly as much any more. Word is out that arrested with a gun gets about 5 times as much time behind bars. So murder rates are way down, already.

But tougher regs on gun storage, carry laws etc. might help, since one thing that's not going down is accidental shooting by good, god-fearing, law abiding folks.

Where did you pull this info from? Must have been your ass, becuase nothing here is based on any actual facts.

 

[whitehall]

If the left was serious about gun violence wouldn't they try to get to the bottom of the 3,000 illegal weapons shipped to Mexico in the incredible Fast/Furious mess? Indict the guy at the top who authorized the illegal shipment and then we will talk about more gun laws. Meanwhile maybe we can get the jihad Major tried, convicted and executed for killing 13 of his own men.

 

[Koios]

How are you going to get criminals to obey the law?


I've never gotten a rational, workable answer to this question in all the years I've asked it on this and other boards.

Improve their employment prospects when they get out, if they're non violent offenders.

That way they won't shoot anyone, since work and not crime gets them fed and a roof over their heads.

But then, they're not using guns nearly as much any more. Word is out that arrested with a gun gets about 5 times as much time behind bars. So murder rates are way down, already.

But tougher regs on gun storage, carry laws etc. might help, since one thing that's not going down is accidental shooting by good, god-fearing, law abiding folks.

Where did you pull this info from? Must have been your ass, becuase nothing here is based on any actual facts.

Census bureau, mostly. But a bit of caution: actual facts are there that might fuck with your comfortable delusion. Be advised.