Attention, gun control supporters:

[GuyPinestra]

You left out that the right wing mind cannot process reasonable or moderate. Any attempt to discuss either, will illicit the polarized chicken little sky is falling, this is the end of existence, the world is going to end.

It is the manifestation of deep insecurity and fear, the driving force of conservatism.

If you'd PROPOSE something reasonable and moderate we might get somewhere, but laws that have no effect except on the law-abiding are neither reasonable or moderate.

I have some really bad news for ya...you and daveman and the rest of the slippery slope, chicken littles are being abandoned...by NRA members and the American people.

It exposes you for what you are.

GOP pollster: "I don't think the NRA is listening"

(CBS News) According to Republican pollster and CBS News political analyst Frank Luntz, despite the impending so-called "fiscal cliff," American families have spent more "time talking about their fear of gun violence than over the 'fiscal cliff'."

Luntz said that based on his polling and conversations with lawmakers in Washington, "the public is asking, if not insisting that something be done so that this does not happen again."

"The public wants guns out of the schools, not in the schools," Luntz said, speaking to the NRA's response to the Newtown shooting, in which the organization advocated for armed guards in schools across the U.S.

"I don't think the the NRA is listening. I don't think they understand," Luntz said. "Most Americans would protect Second Amendment rights and yet agree with the idea that not every human being should own a gun, not every gun should be available at any time, anywhere, for anyone - that at gun shows you should not be able to buy something right there and then without any check whatsoever."

Luntz added that what Americans are looking for from gun control legislation is "a common sense approach that says that those who are law-abiding should continue to have the right to own a weapon, but don't believe the right should be extended to everyone at every time for every time of weapon."

Luntz conducted a survey of gun owners both affiliated and unaffiliated with the NRA earlier this year, which found broad support for certain provisions that would restrict the sale of guns.

Among NRA members, 74 percent said they support background checks as a requirement for concealed carry permits. Recent polls of the broader American populace have showed higher levels of support for that and other gun control measures which the NRA has historically opposed.

“You know, I’ve spent my entire life time separating the Right from the kooks”
William F. Buckley Jr.

So what do you PROPOSE??

 

[eflatminor]

So, to summarize this thead:

1. Criminals don't obey the law.

2. We need more laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

3. We know it won't work, but fuck your Second Amendment rights. Us feeling good about ourselves for doing something about it is more important than your rights.

That about cover it?

You left out that the right wing mind cannot process reasonable or moderate. Any attempt to discuss either, will illicit the polarized chicken little sky is falling, this is the end of existence, the world is going to end.

It is the manifestation of deep insecurity and fear, the driving force of conservatism.

Then by all means, put forward a proposal. Please keep in mind that it would not be reasonable to propose laws that would allow the crazies and criminals that don't care about your regulations to be better armed than law abiding citizens.

The floor is yours...

Hmm...crickets.

 

[GuyPinestra]

You left out that the right wing mind cannot process reasonable or moderate. Any attempt to discuss either, will illicit the polarized chicken little sky is falling, this is the end of existence, the world is going to end.

It is the manifestation of deep insecurity and fear, the driving force of conservatism.

Then by all means, put forward a proposal. Please keep in mind that it would not be reasonable to propose laws that would allow the crazies and criminals that don't care about your regulations to be better armed than law abiding citizens.

The floor is yours...

Hmm...crickets.

Go figure...

 

[The Rabbi]

Then by all means, put forward a proposal. Please keep in mind that it would not be reasonable to propose laws that would allow the crazies and criminals that don't care about your regulations to be better armed than law abiding citizens.

The floor is yours...

Hmm...crickets.

Go figure...

When the discussion gets to this point all the Left can do is:
1) Tell us how gun control is really coming this time.
2) The American people favor it
3) We suck.

When it comes to substantive proposals that will do something constructive they're silent.

 

[Bfgrn]

If you'd PROPOSE something reasonable and moderate we might get somewhere, but laws that have no effect except on the law-abiding are neither reasonable or moderate.

I have some really bad news for ya...you and daveman and the rest of the slippery slope, chicken littles are being abandoned...by NRA members and the American people.

It exposes you for what you are.

GOP pollster: "I don't think the NRA is listening"

(CBS News) According to Republican pollster and CBS News political analyst Frank Luntz, despite the impending so-called "fiscal cliff," American families have spent more "time talking about their fear of gun violence than over the 'fiscal cliff'."

Luntz said that based on his polling and conversations with lawmakers in Washington, "the public is asking, if not insisting that something be done so that this does not happen again."

"The public wants guns out of the schools, not in the schools," Luntz said, speaking to the NRA's response to the Newtown shooting, in which the organization advocated for armed guards in schools across the U.S.

"I don't think the the NRA is listening. I don't think they understand," Luntz said. "Most Americans would protect Second Amendment rights and yet agree with the idea that not every human being should own a gun, not every gun should be available at any time, anywhere, for anyone - that at gun shows you should not be able to buy something right there and then without any check whatsoever."

Luntz added that what Americans are looking for from gun control legislation is "a common sense approach that says that those who are law-abiding should continue to have the right to own a weapon, but don't believe the right should be extended to everyone at every time for every time of weapon."

Luntz conducted a survey of gun owners both affiliated and unaffiliated with the NRA earlier this year, which found broad support for certain provisions that would restrict the sale of guns.

Among NRA members, 74 percent said they support background checks as a requirement for concealed carry permits. Recent polls of the broader American populace have showed higher levels of support for that and other gun control measures which the NRA has historically opposed.

“You know, I’ve spent my entire life time separating the Right from the kooks”
William F. Buckley Jr.

So what do you PROPOSE??

Here is a few...

Mayors Against Illegal Guns - Federal Legislation

Mayors Against Illegal Guns - State & Local Legislation

Mayors Against Illegal Guns - Responsible Firearms Retail Partnership

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One Million Moms for Gun Control | Against Gun Violence

The NRA, along with too many Congressional leaders, have said nothing or done anything since the Connecticut tragedy that would suggest they are interested in finding common sense, middle-ground solutions to curb gun violence in America. The answer is not to ban guns, but certainly it is also not to arm every citizen. American mothers will not raise their children in militarized zones. As such, One Million Moms for Gun Control was founded to demand action NOW and we will not rest until we see:

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

While we are not against guns, we are against the proliferation of military-type weapons that have been allowed into our society with too little oversight. We are asking you today to make a promise to the mothers of America: Help us create reasonable and enforceable gun laws that allow us to safely send our precious children out of our arms and into schools, movie theaters, malls, and universities.

There are 84 million mothers in the United States and only 4 million NRA members. We are the wave of change. Like Mothers Against Drunk Driving helped change lax laws in the 1980s, One Million Moms for Gun Control will not rest until common sense gun control regulations are put in place at both the national and state level. The rapid growth of social media and the organizing power of the Internet will ensure our success. It is said that a mother’s love for her child is unstoppable; be sure that One Million Moms for Gun Control is as well.

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, those suck and won't work.

Any realistic suggestions that might actually accomplish something?

 

[GuyPinestra]

So what do you PROPOSE??

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

You cut & pasted all kinds of crap that I deleted in this reply, because I asked you for proposals, not pablum. What remains above are the 5 proposals of the Million Moms.

Let's have a look...

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

The AWB didn't do a damned thing to stop gun violence, as the vast majority of it comes from handguns, not rifles. Also, the 2nd Amendment doesn't have a thing to do with hunting, and trying to say it does is fucking dishonest.

Fail.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

According to Federal statistics, less than 2% of criminals obtain weapons from gun shows. What do you really think this will accomplish, other than forcing private citizens into performing law enforcement duties. Are you required to see a buyer's driver's license or proof of insurance when you sell a used car?

Fail.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

Limiting quantities of ammunition will have only one effect, forcing law-abiding citizens to pay higher prices for their ammo. When you can't buy in bulk you are forced to pay retail, and who the fuck do you think you are to tell me I can't fire off 1,000 rounds of ammo in a weekend?

And tell us exactly how this little jewel would reduce gun violence, anyway?

Fail.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

Tell me something, have ANY of these deranged shooters been holders of concealed carry permits? ANY of them? In a word? NO. What possible effect will the restriction of CCW rights have on gun violence? In a word? NOTHING.

Fail.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

Finally, at the bottom of the list, is an idea that might have some merit. I don't want nutbags to get guns any more than you do, but until these nutbags are identified there is not much we can do.

If you have other proposals, please take the time to list them and I'll address them individually.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Are you so old that you can't read the shit YOU post?

142 guns total, but no exact number on semi-auto rifles and pistols, just 'dozens'. Fail.

8 of the last 10 shootings were carried out with pistols ONLY, not a semi-auto rifle to be found. (Or what YOU would call an 'assault weapon' in your ignorance.)

If you want to call me a dumbfuck, dispute what I posted and PROVE it, asswipe!

Prove what? You didn't even read it did you. 8 of the last ten mass murders were not carried out with pistols.....you are so full of shit that you stink.

There was another list posted a couple days ago that had 8 out of 10.

I couldn't find it so I went to a source you would trust, Mother Jones, and got THEIR list of the last 10 mass shootings in America. They are as follows...

1.) Newtown - Rifle and Handguns

2.) Accent Signage - Handgun only

3.) Sikh Temple - Handgun only

4.) Aurora - Rifle & Handguns

5.) Seattle Cafe - Handgun only

6.) Oikos U. - Handgun only

7.) Su Jung Spa - Handgun only

8.) Seal Beach Salon - Handgun only

9.) IHOP - AK-47 Rifle

10.) Tuscon - Handgun only

This list is different that the one posted a few days ago because Mother Jones used a higher death toll to get on it, but even with that 7 of the last 10 mass shootings have been 'Handgun only'.

So go fuck yourself, you ignorant bastard.

Where'd you skulk off to, Cammmpbell?

 

[eflatminor]

You left out that the right wing mind cannot process reasonable or moderate. Any attempt to discuss either, will illicit the polarized chicken little sky is falling, this is the end of existence, the world is going to end.

It is the manifestation of deep insecurity and fear, the driving force of conservatism.

Then by all means, put forward a proposal. Please keep in mind that it would not be reasonable to propose laws that would allow the crazies and criminals that don't care about your regulations to be better armed than law abiding citizens.

The floor is yours...

Hmm...crickets.

Would you like to try again? Perhaps in your own words?

Your links fail to address the insanity of regulations that give an edge to criminals and crazies by restricting legal access. We see examples around the country and in countries around the world that when legal access is restricted, violent crimes increase. Where gun control is most strict, crime soars. Alternatively, where conceal carry permits have skyrocketed, crime is down.

From gun-free zones to waiting periods to outright bans, all you can hope to achieve is to put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage. I find the notion disturbing...and treading dangerously close to violating the inalienable right to self defense.

What do you propose that does not end up helping criminals carry out their crimes?

 

[Bfgrn]

So what do you PROPOSE??

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

You cut & pasted all kinds of crap that I deleted in this reply, because I asked you for proposals, not pablum. What remains above are the 5 proposals of the Million Moms.

Let's have a look...

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

The AWB didn't do a damned thing to stop gun violence, as the vast majority of it comes from handguns, not rifles. Also, the 2nd Amendment doesn't have a thing to do with hunting, and trying to say it does is fucking dishonest.

Fail.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

According to Federal statistics, less than 2% of criminals obtain weapons from gun shows. What do you really think this will accomplish, other than forcing private citizens into performing law enforcement duties. Are you required to see a buyer's driver's license or proof of insurance when you sell a used car?

Fail.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

Limiting quantities of ammunition will have only one effect, forcing law-abiding citizens to pay higher prices for their ammo. When you can't buy in bulk you are forced to pay retail, and who the fuck do you think you are to tell me I can't fire off 1,000 rounds of ammo in a weekend?

And tell us exactly how this little jewel would reduce gun violence, anyway?

Fail.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

Tell me something, have ANY of these deranged shooters been holders of concealed carry permits? ANY of them? In a word? NO. What possible effect will the restriction of CCW rights have on gun violence? In a word? NOTHING.

Fail.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

Finally, at the bottom of the list, is an idea that might have some merit. I don't want nutbags to get guns any more than you do, but until these nutbags are identified there is not much we can do.

If you have other proposals, please take the time to list them and I'll address them individually.

A Justice Department study on the federal assault weapons ban, which was law for 10 years found “Gun murders declined 10.3 percent in states without preexisting assault weapons bans.” 10.3 percent. Another study by the Justice Department in 2004 concluded “If the ban is lifted, gun and magazine manufacturers may reintroduce assault weapons models and large capacity magazines, perhaps in substantial numbers.”

Impacts of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban: 1994-96.pdf

An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban 1994-2003.pdf

What's the matter, did the Mayors Against Illegal Guns use word that are too big for you? Their proposals are much more detailed and backed by research. But what the One Million Moms for Gun Control lay out is basic common sense, no matter how much you throw a tantrum. And I am pretty sure that resembles what is going to happen...deal with it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Are you, or just unable to read, comprehend or start a YouTube video?


Gun Show: Undercover - YouTube

Michael R. Bloomberg
108th Mayor of the City of New York

Gun Show Undercover

Ever wonder how criminals are able to get guns so easily? It's depressingly simple. On any given weekend, at dozens of gun shows held in states across the country -- criminals can buy guns from "private sellers" who are not required to perform background checks.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has identified gun shows as the source of more than 30% of all illegally trafficked guns in the country. Those are the guns most likely to be used in crimes -- and to kill innocent people, including police officers.

Today, New York City is releasing the results of a multi-state investigation into this activity: "Gun Show Undercover." We sent investigators with hidden cameras to seven gun shows across Ohio, Tennessee and Nevada, and we found out just how easy it is for criminals and the mentally ill to walk in and buy guns -- no questions asked.

Our investigators told the private sellers that they "probably couldn't pass a background check" -- and at that point, the seller should have sent them away. Because even private sellers are prohibited by federal law from selling to those who they have reason to suspect could not pass a background check.

Instead, 19 out of 30 private sellers made the sale.

more

Here mr. gunshow dealer, I will give you 100.00 to say a few things.
Has anyone been charged for breaking the law? Convictions?
Damn dude You and I have already discussed this video.
Just like a liberal keep pushing failure hoping for a better outcome

Are you jtpr312, or do you two just swap bodily fluids?

Dude just like the last time you posted that video. I asked you has anyone been charged in that video for breaking the law? Your response is?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Here mr. gunshow dealer, I will give you 100.00 to say a few things.
Has anyone been charged for breaking the law? Convictions?
Damn dude You and I have already discussed this video.
Just like a liberal keep pushing failure hoping for a better outcome

The reason obama is still our president.

The reason Obama is still OUR PRESIDENT is because the GOP nominated a fucking moron. I bet you voted for him.

obama won because of the welfare class.
Why is it obama did not get the same amount if not more of votes he got the last time. Why is it they are only expecting less than a million at obama's inauguration ?
Inauguration Turnout Likely To Be Lower Than 2009

 

[The Rabbi]

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

You cut & pasted all kinds of crap that I deleted in this reply, because I asked you for proposals, not pablum. What remains above are the 5 proposals of the Million Moms.

Let's have a look...

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

The AWB didn't do a damned thing to stop gun violence, as the vast majority of it comes from handguns, not rifles. Also, the 2nd Amendment doesn't have a thing to do with hunting, and trying to say it does is fucking dishonest.

Fail.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

According to Federal statistics, less than 2% of criminals obtain weapons from gun shows. What do you really think this will accomplish, other than forcing private citizens into performing law enforcement duties. Are you required to see a buyer's driver's license or proof of insurance when you sell a used car?

Fail.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

Limiting quantities of ammunition will have only one effect, forcing law-abiding citizens to pay higher prices for their ammo. When you can't buy in bulk you are forced to pay retail, and who the fuck do you think you are to tell me I can't fire off 1,000 rounds of ammo in a weekend?

And tell us exactly how this little jewel would reduce gun violence, anyway?

Fail.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

Tell me something, have ANY of these deranged shooters been holders of concealed carry permits? ANY of them? In a word? NO. What possible effect will the restriction of CCW rights have on gun violence? In a word? NOTHING.

Fail.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

Finally, at the bottom of the list, is an idea that might have some merit. I don't want nutbags to get guns any more than you do, but until these nutbags are identified there is not much we can do.

If you have other proposals, please take the time to list them and I'll address them individually.

A Justice Department study on the federal assault weapons ban, which was law for 10 years found “Gun murders declined 10.3 percent in states without preexisting assault weapons bans.” 10.3 percent. Another study by the Justice Department in 2004 concluded “If the ban is lifted, gun and magazine manufacturers may reintroduce assault weapons models and large capacity magazines, perhaps in substantial numbers.”

Impacts of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban: 1994-96.pdf

An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban 1994-2003.pdf

What's the matter, did the Mayors Against Illegal Guns use word that are too big for you? Their proposals are much more detailed and backed by research. But what the One Million Moms for Gun Control lay out is basic common sense, no matter how much you throw a tantrum. And I am pretty sure that resembles what is going to happen...deal with it.

You understand that the ban was not effective, right? Not even the authors of tha study maintain that. There was no cause and effect here. And the assumptions made were absurd.
Another fail-o.

 

[jtpr312]

Here mr. gunshow dealer, I will give you 100.00 to say a few things.
Has anyone been charged for breaking the law? Convictions?
Damn dude You and I have already discussed this video.
Just like a liberal keep pushing failure hoping for a better outcome

The reason obama is still our president.

The reason Obama is still OUR PRESIDENT is because the GOP nominated a fucking moron. I bet you voted for him.

I voted against the socialist obama. I would have voted for Charles Manson over the pos obama.

 

[Bfgrn]

The reason obama is still our president.

The reason Obama is still OUR PRESIDENT is because the GOP nominated a fucking moron. I bet you voted for him.

I voted against the socialist obama. I would have voted for Charles Manson over the pos obama.

Hell yea, our President is a real gun grabber! Only a moron wouldn't be able to tell. Since Obama took office, here is the bills he signed relating to the 2nd amendment:

The President has signed separate pieces of legislation that expanded gun rights. These rights include the ability of citizens to carry firearms in national parks as long as they comply with state laws, and the ability of certain passengers to carry unloaded firearms in the luggage on Amtrak trains.

 

[GuyPinestra]

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

You cut & pasted all kinds of crap that I deleted in this reply, because I asked you for proposals, not pablum. What remains above are the 5 proposals of the Million Moms.

Let's have a look...

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

The AWB didn't do a damned thing to stop gun violence, as the vast majority of it comes from handguns, not rifles. Also, the 2nd Amendment doesn't have a thing to do with hunting, and trying to say it does is fucking dishonest.

Fail.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

According to Federal statistics, less than 2% of criminals obtain weapons from gun shows. What do you really think this will accomplish, other than forcing private citizens into performing law enforcement duties. Are you required to see a buyer's driver's license or proof of insurance when you sell a used car?

Fail.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

Limiting quantities of ammunition will have only one effect, forcing law-abiding citizens to pay higher prices for their ammo. When you can't buy in bulk you are forced to pay retail, and who the fuck do you think you are to tell me I can't fire off 1,000 rounds of ammo in a weekend?

And tell us exactly how this little jewel would reduce gun violence, anyway?

Fail.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

Tell me something, have ANY of these deranged shooters been holders of concealed carry permits? ANY of them? In a word? NO. What possible effect will the restriction of CCW rights have on gun violence? In a word? NOTHING.

Fail.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

Finally, at the bottom of the list, is an idea that might have some merit. I don't want nutbags to get guns any more than you do, but until these nutbags are identified there is not much we can do.

If you have other proposals, please take the time to list them and I'll address them individually.

A Justice Department study on the federal assault weapons ban, which was law for 10 years found “Gun murders declined 10.3 percent in states without preexisting assault weapons bans.” 10.3 percent. Another study by the Justice Department in 2004 concluded “If the ban is lifted, gun and magazine manufacturers may reintroduce assault weapons models and large capacity magazines, perhaps in substantial numbers.”

Impacts of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban: 1994-96.pdf

An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban 1994-2003.pdf

What's the matter, did the Mayors Against Illegal Guns use word that are too big for you? Their proposals are much more detailed and backed by research. But what the One Million Moms for Gun Control lay out is basic common sense, no matter how much you throw a tantrum. And I am pretty sure that resembles what is going to happen...deal with it.

Tantrum? Is that how you propose to 'win' the debate, by making childish remarks?

Asking you to type out proposals is too much to ask of you? How about you just C & P them for us, so we don't have to read 3,000 words to get there? Or are you, like most liberals, just 'too good' for us?

 

[The Rabbi]

The reason Obama is still OUR PRESIDENT is because the GOP nominated a fucking moron. I bet you voted for him.

I voted against the socialist obama. I would have voted for Charles Manson over the pos obama.

Hell yea, our President is a real gun grabber! Only a moron wouldn't be able to tell. Since Obama took office, here is the bills he signed relating to the 2nd amendment:

The President has signed separate pieces of legislation that expanded gun rights. These rights include the ability of citizens to carry firearms in national parks as long as they comply with state laws, and the ability of certain passengers to carry unloaded firearms in the luggage on Amtrak trains.

Which is why he appointed Joe Biden to a commission to study gun laws? He wants to make them more lax, right?
Moran.

 

[eflatminor]

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

You cut & pasted all kinds of crap that I deleted in this reply, because I asked you for proposals, not pablum. What remains above are the 5 proposals of the Million Moms.

Let's have a look...

1) The reinstatement of the ban on assault weapons and related magazines. These weapons are clearly not the weapons of choice for hunters.

The AWB didn't do a damned thing to stop gun violence, as the vast majority of it comes from handguns, not rifles. Also, the 2nd Amendment doesn't have a thing to do with hunting, and trying to say it does is fucking dishonest.

Fail.

2) Closed gun-show loopholes that encourage private gun sales without background checks, a basic procedure that every purchaser should undergo.

According to Federal statistics, less than 2% of criminals obtain weapons from gun shows. What do you really think this will accomplish, other than forcing private citizens into performing law enforcement duties. Are you required to see a buyer's driver's license or proof of insurance when you sell a used car?

Fail.

3) A common sense approach to how much ammunition can be purchased. Fertilizer and Sudafed purchases are limited; ammunition should be as well.

Limiting quantities of ammunition will have only one effect, forcing law-abiding citizens to pay higher prices for their ammo. When you can't buy in bulk you are forced to pay retail, and who the fuck do you think you are to tell me I can't fire off 1,000 rounds of ammo in a weekend?

And tell us exactly how this little jewel would reduce gun violence, anyway?

Fail.

4) Boundaries on the scope of concealed weapons laws at the state level.

Tell me something, have ANY of these deranged shooters been holders of concealed carry permits? ANY of them? In a word? NO. What possible effect will the restriction of CCW rights have on gun violence? In a word? NOTHING.

Fail.

5) Improve mental health awareness and access.

Finally, at the bottom of the list, is an idea that might have some merit. I don't want nutbags to get guns any more than you do, but until these nutbags are identified there is not much we can do.

If you have other proposals, please take the time to list them and I'll address them individually.

A Justice Department study on the federal assault weapons ban, which was law for 10 years found “Gun murders declined 10.3 percent in states without preexisting assault weapons bans.” 10.3 percent. Another study by the Justice Department in 2004 concluded “If the ban is lifted, gun and magazine manufacturers may reintroduce assault weapons models and large capacity magazines, perhaps in substantial numbers.”

Impacts of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban: 1994-96.pdf

An Updated Assessment of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban 1994-2003.pdf

What's the matter, did the Mayors Against Illegal Guns use word that are too big for you? Their proposals are much more detailed and backed by research. But what the One Million Moms for Gun Control lay out is basic common sense, no matter how much you throw a tantrum. And I am pretty sure that resembles what is going to happen...deal with it.

Christ man, did you even read your links? They completely discredit the idea that gun bans keep firearms from the hands of criminals!

From your links:
"There has not been a clear decline in the use of ARs"
"The failure to reduce LCM use has likely been due to the immense stock of exempted pre-ban magazines"
"...the ban has not yet reduced the use of LCMs in crime"
"...we cannot clearly credit the ban with any of the nation’s recent drop in gun violence."

Further, the "study" that covered the entire term of the ban only includes 5 cities. Why so selective I wonder? Even with that kind of cherry picking, the study still concludes: "The Ban’s Success in Reducing Criminal Use of the Banned Guns and Magazines Has Been Mixed"

What a glowing endorsement!

And by the way, YOU FUCKING LIED in your conclusion when you stated:

A Justice Department study on the federal assault weapons ban, which was law for 10 years found “Gun murders declined 10.3 percent in states without preexisting assault weapons bans.”

Fucking liar!!! That quote came from the study done in 1995, NOT during the 10 year period of the ban. Lie much???

Further, “assault weapons” traces were minimal before the ban (due to their infrequent use in crimes), so any change enters the realm of statistical irrelevancy.

Bottom line, you've FAILED to produce any evidence that criminals are prevented in any way from obtaining banned firearms and magazines.

So, any chance you'll actually address the point here and tell us how limiting law abiding citizens access to firearms makes a damn bit of difference to criminals???

Not holding my breath...

p.s. Neg'd for lying!

 

[daveman]

So, to summarize this thead:

1. Criminals don't obey the law.

2. We need more laws to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

3. We know it won't work, but fuck your Second Amendment rights. Us feeling good about ourselves for doing something about it is more important than your rights.

That about cover it?

You left out that the right wing mind cannot process reasonable or moderate. Any attempt to discuss either, will illicit the polarized chicken little sky is falling, this is the end of existence, the world is going to end.

It is the manifestation of deep insecurity and fear, the driving force of conservatism.

Sheer projection. It's the left that does the Chicken Little act -- see the typical response in a thread about global warming.

Insecurity and fear drive progressivism. You need an enemy.

 

[daveman]

You left out that the right wing mind cannot process reasonable or moderate. Any attempt to discuss either, will illicit the polarized chicken little sky is falling, this is the end of existence, the world is going to end.

It is the manifestation of deep insecurity and fear, the driving force of conservatism.

If you'd PROPOSE something reasonable and moderate we might get somewhere, but laws that have no effect except on the law-abiding are neither reasonable or moderate.

I have some really bad news for ya...you and daveman and the rest of the slippery slope, chicken littles are being abandoned...by NRA members and the American people.

It exposes you for what you are.

Unlike you leftists, I don't need to be in a crowd of like-minded people to feel secure. I don't need a consensus to base my views on.

Can't you think for yourself? The evidence suggests "no".