Bain Capital closing Illinois Plant

[JoeB131]

Your paranoid tinfoil hat explanations are ridiculous. Businesses aren't hiring because they are unsure of the economy, unsure of the regulatory environment and remember two brutal cash crunches over the past decade. The Dow near highs is due as much to QE as anything.

"They want to turn the screws on working people." FFS, is that ever stupid.

Businesses aren't hiring because they are screwing the working folks.


Just another chapter in their 30 year quest to break the American Middle Class.

Yes. It is of course the goal of business to ruin their main stream of revenue. So says the big labor hammer and sickle guy.

Actually, it was a Republican who observed, "The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists. They're too damned greedy!"

No one said they were smart. If they were, the 2008 crash never would have happened.

 

[JoeB131]

No, the expectation is you do your due diligence. If you miss and important detail and as long as the terms are not unconscionable, it's ON YOU.
There is not "sitting in the corner with tears in your eyes while claiming victim status.
If you cannot dance with the big dogs, get on the porch.

I actually had a vendor try to pull some shit like that on me like that once.

Not only did I get him to back down, I reported his ass to the IL State's attorney general.

Incidently, this was not a contract I negotiated, it was one that someone else did.

I tend not to fuck around... I'll play fair if you do.

What "Shit"?
Depending on you to perform due diligence?

Trying to claim we owed them a bunch of money for worn equipment when it wasn't worth anything near that.

They were lucky we let them off easy.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Businesses aren't hiring because they are screwing the working folks.


Just another chapter in their 30 year quest to break the American Middle Class.

Yes. It is of course the goal of business to ruin their main stream of revenue. So says the big labor hammer and sickle guy.

Actually, it was a Republican who observed, "The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists. They're too damned greedy!"

No one said they were smart. If they were, the 2008 crash never would have happened.

Your point is?

 

[JoeB131]

Yes. It is of course the goal of business to ruin their main stream of revenue. So says the big labor hammer and sickle guy.

Actually, it was a Republican who observed, "The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists. They're too damned greedy!"

No one said they were smart. If they were, the 2008 crash never would have happened.

Your point is?

My point is that most conservative "plans" for economic growth involve the notion that at some point, the greedy will be satisfied, have enough, and then start sharing the wealth through job creation or charities, and we won't really need big bad government to do these things.

The reality is, they never have enough. The last 30 years is seeing the decline of what the middle class built up in the pervious 80 or so, from when a truly great Republican, Teddy Roosevelt, saw that the GOP needed to be on the right side of working folks.

What creates prosperity is a strong middle class, not rich people having mansions and car elevators and dressage horses.

As I've said many times, when you reduce the middle class to the point where they need food stamps, section 8 and Medicaid because they've lost the ability to earn those things to pay a millionaires dividends and trusts, you are making them friends of more government, not less.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Businesses aren't hiring because they are screwing the working folks.


Just another chapter in their 30 year quest to break the American Middle Class.

Yes. It is of course the goal of business to ruin their main stream of revenue. So says the big labor hammer and sickle guy.

Actually, it was a Republican who observed, "The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists. They're too damned greedy!"

No one said they were smart. If they were, the 2008 crash never would have happened.

Which "republican" Name him or her.
BTW, the crash started the day Fannie/Freddie was allowed to get out of control and the federal government interfered in the lending market when it told banks they must lend to previously unqualified buyers.
It amazed me when I would meet a single person making no more than $30k per year buying a $120k house with no money down and a spotty credit report. A good loan officer would NEVER allow such a transaction to take place. However, that underwriter was told by his boss "make the loan"..
Congress warned the federal government that Fannie Freddie was going to result in a negative result.
In any event

 

[naturegirl]

Actually, it was a Republican who observed, "The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists. They're too damned greedy!"

No one said they were smart. If they were, the 2008 crash never would have happened.

Your point is?

My point is that most conservative "plans" for economic growth involve the notion that at some point, the greedy will be satisfied, have enough, and then start sharing the wealth through job creation or charities, and we won't really need big bad government to do these things.

The reality is, they never have enough. The last 30 years is seeing the decline of what the middle class built up in the pervious 80 or so, from when a truly great Republican, Teddy Roosevelt, saw that the GOP needed to be on the right side of working folks.

What creates prosperity is a strong middle class, not rich people having mansions and car elevators and dressage horses.

As I've said many times, when you reduce the middle class to the point where they need food stamps, section 8 and Medicaid because they've lost the ability to earn those things to pay a millionaires dividends and trusts, you are making them friends of more government, not less.

When you give the middle class food stamps, section 8 housing and medicaid because the want it, not need it, they become bitter and expect the government to take care of them indefinitely. That's how they become friends of the government. There is a huge number of American citizens that have lived that life for generations, they want more and more and have no desire to work for those evil millionaires that earn dividends and create trusts.

Joey, you can't always be a victim. At some point you have to take responsibility for your behavior.

 

[Trajan]

Interesting how Romneys past business deals are of no importance however Obama's past preacher is or extreme importance.

So you're calling out anyone that defended obamas relationship with wright?

Oh wait.

Anyway, sure mitts biz past matters, what's objectionable is how it it being portrayed, ala joe septic, oops, I mean soptic, hello

 

[thereisnospoon]

Actually, it was a Republican who observed, "The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists. They're too damned greedy!"

No one said they were smart. If they were, the 2008 crash never would have happened.

Your point is?

My point is that most conservative "plans" for economic growth involve the notion that at some point, the greedy will be satisfied, have enough, and then start sharing the wealth through job creation or charities, and we won't really need big bad government to do these things.

The reality is, they never have enough. The last 30 years is seeing the decline of what the middle class built up in the pervious 80 or so, from when a truly great Republican, Teddy Roosevelt, saw that the GOP needed to be on the right side of working folks.

What creates prosperity is a strong middle class, not rich people having mansions and car elevators and dressage horses.

As I've said many times, when you reduce the middle class to the point where they need food stamps, section 8 and Medicaid because they've lost the ability to earn those things to pay a millionaires dividends and trusts, you are making them friends of more government, not less.

Reduce the middle class to requiring social safety nets. Yes, you need to take the Baltimore Washington Parkway. Continue to the Anacostia Freeway. Exit at Pennsylvania Ave, Keep going until you se the big house with the columns in front.
Talk to the guy in the oval shaped office. His right hand man said "the middle class has been buried"..
Sick and tired of you people blaming everyone and anyone for Obama's poor record as POTUS.
Your side is out of chances.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Your point is?

My point is that most conservative "plans" for economic growth involve the notion that at some point, the greedy will be satisfied, have enough, and then start sharing the wealth through job creation or charities, and we won't really need big bad government to do these things.

The reality is, they never have enough. The last 30 years is seeing the decline of what the middle class built up in the pervious 80 or so, from when a truly great Republican, Teddy Roosevelt, saw that the GOP needed to be on the right side of working folks.

What creates prosperity is a strong middle class, not rich people having mansions and car elevators and dressage horses.

As I've said many times, when you reduce the middle class to the point where they need food stamps, section 8 and Medicaid because they've lost the ability to earn those things to pay a millionaires dividends and trusts, you are making them friends of more government, not less.

When you give the middle class food stamps, section 8 housing and medicaid because the want it, not need it, they become bitter and expect the government to take care of them indefinitely. That's how they become friends of the government. There is a huge number of American citizens that have lived that life for generations, they want more and more and have no desire to work for those evil millionaires that earn dividends and create trusts.

Joey, you can't always be a victim. At some point you have to take responsibility for your behavior.

Joe thinks victim status can be used to a political advantage.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I actually had a vendor try to pull some shit like that on me like that once.

Not only did I get him to back down, I reported his ass to the IL State's attorney general.

Incidently, this was not a contract I negotiated, it was one that someone else did.

I tend not to fuck around... I'll play fair if you do.

What "Shit"?
Depending on you to perform due diligence?

Trying to claim we owed them a bunch of money for worn equipment when it wasn't worth anything near that.

They were lucky we let them off easy.

And how does that relate to anything other than your undying need to share personal anecdotes?

 

[Barb]

Speaking of honesty, it would be more forthcoming of you to stop truncating our conversation to suit your slant on it, just saying.

Dollars To Donuts: Why Dunkin' Employees Hate Mitt Romney | The New Republic

And yet, here you are, posting a hatchet article about a company that has absolutely nothing to do with Mitt Romney.

I can list any of the older private equity firms - KKR, Apollo, Carlyle, Blackstone, etc. - and find a handful of companies for each of them that went down in flames. I agree with some of the criticisms - that they sometimes put on too much debt or they take out too much in fees - but "vulture capitalism" generally does NOT represent what these private equity firms do, and that includes Bain.

Romney Still Reaps Huge Profits From Bain's Vulture Capitalism | The Nation

The wealthiest man ever to secure a major party nomination for the presidency is crying foul because President Obama’s campaign has dared to explain how Romney made his money.

Romney was a robber baron. And he continues to profit—to the tune of $230 million and counting—from the “vulture capitalism” his Republican primary opponents decried.

The debate about when Romney relinquished day-to-day control of the firm—in 1999, as he likes to say, or considerably later, as the paper trail suggests—is irrelevant. Through arrangements that he made, Romney remains one of the prime beneficiaries of every move that Bain makes.

As an exhaustive New York Times report noted last fall, “Mr. Romney never really left Bain.”

Romney’s continued involvement with Bain is not some distant financial arrangement, or some casual connection like Americans might have to corporations via stocks included in their 401K plans

Though Mr. Romney [arguably left Bain in early 1999, he remains a direct beneficiary of Bain’s buccaneer pillaging of the US economy.

To wit:

• Romney continued to collect a share of the corporate buyout and investment profits enjoyed by partners from all Bain deals until 2009.

• Romney, because of his ongoing arrangement with Bain, Romney has collected profits from twenty-two Bain and Bain-related funds. That, as the Times notes, is “more than twice as many over all as Mr. Romney had a share of the year he left.”

• Romney’s arrangement with Bain allows him to invest his own money in projects pursued by his former partners. As such, Romney is involved in deals from which he continues to share in a portion of Bain’s profits—just as he must share in a portion of responsibility for what the firm does to harm American workers.

Indeed, as the Times assessment noted late last year, well after he launched his current presidential campaign, Romney was still profiting from “Bain deals that resulted in upheaval for companies, workers and communities.”

 

[JoeB131]

Which "republican" Name him or her.
BTW, the crash started the day Fannie/Freddie was allowed to get out of control and the federal government interfered in the lending market when it told banks they must lend to previously unqualified buyers.
It amazed me when I would meet a single person making no more than $30k per year buying a $120k house with no money down and a spotty credit report. A good loan officer would NEVER allow such a transaction to take place. However, that underwriter was told by his boss "make the loan"..
Congress warned the federal government that Fannie Freddie was going to result in a negative result.
In any event

I'm not sure where you are finding someone getting a loan with no money down.

I know I had a hard time getting a loan for 90K for my condo, making 46K a year at the time in 2004, and with a credit score in the high 700's. The only reason I was able to swing it was I qualified for a VA loan.

But it wasn't the government that made them do it. It was the thinking that, hey, if they default, we foreclose and resell the house for even more money after taking five years of interest.

It's only when the bubble burst that this ran into trouble.

But you'll ignore the 50 or so privately owned banks paying their execs seven figure bonuses to zero in on Fannie Mae...

 

[JoeB131]

What "Shit"?
Depending on you to perform due diligence?

Trying to claim we owed them a bunch of money for worn equipment when it wasn't worth anything near that.

They were lucky we let them off easy.

And how does that relate to anything other than your undying need to share personal anecdotes?

You said we should all bend over and take it if they have "contracts".

I proved. Not so much. These people were scumwads, anyway.

 

[JoeB131]

When you give the middle class food stamps, section 8 housing and medicaid because the want it, not need it, they become bitter and expect the government to take care of them indefinitely. That's how they become friends of the government. There is a huge number of American citizens that have lived that life for generations, they want more and more and have no desire to work for those evil millionaires that earn dividends and create trusts.

Joey, you can't always be a victim. At some point you have to take responsibility for your behavior.

Wow, you must be fucking stupid. I really can't come up with any other explanation for you.

The problem isn't "victims". The problem is, starting with firing the PACTO workers, we've spent the last 30 years on a race to the bottom. Get rid of that union, move to a slack-jaw "right to work state", move your manufacturing to Mexico or China or some other rathole where they don't mind breathing dirty air. All to make a few rich fucks richers.

I don't know anyone on food stamps, personally, but I would bet you that most of them would rather earn a paycheck than a hand out. I know you guys think the world is inhabited by "Welfare Queens" (A lie when Reagan said it), but the reality is, 40% of those who get Food Stamps have a job. They just have a "McJob" that doesn't pay all that much.

And when there are hard times, the CEO's never give up their bonuses and salaries. Nope, we need to cut wages and benefits and payroll...

YOu whine about a socialist welfare state, but the fact is, the best firewall against that is a strong middle class making good wages.

"The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists... they're too damned greedy."

 

[eflatminor]

And when there are hard times, the CEO's never give up their bonuses and salaries. Nope, we need to cut wages and benefits and payroll...

Jeff Smisek. Continential CEO gives up his salary (and other bonus compensation) until Continental earns a full year profit:
FlyingColors » Continental CEO Smisek gives up his salary until there is a full year profit.

Dan Hesse, Sprint Nextel CEO taking a $3.25 million pay cut:
IPhone costs Sprint CEO $3.25 million in pay - May. 8, 2012

CEOs that have taken a $1 annual salary during "hard times":

• Chrysler head Lee Iacocca
• Nelson Peltz of Wendy's/Arby's Group (WEN)
• Sumner Redstone of CBS (CBS)
• Apple's (AAPL) Steve Jobs
• Oracle's (ORCL) Larry Ellison
• Cisco's (CSCO) John Chambers.
• Google's (GOOG) Eric Schmidt
• Whole Foods' (WFM) John Mackey
• Citigroup (C) chief Vikram Pandit, in 2009 and 2010
• As did the CEOs of automakers GM (GM), Chrysler, and Ford (F)

Then there's all the CEOs that start their own companies, myself included, that often go years without any compensation in an effort to make their operations a competitive reality.

So, once again, I'd agree with you, but you're wrong.

 

[GuyPinestra]

For the last several years Steve Wynn has donated 100% of his compensation and bonuses to charitable organizations nationwide.

If you don't know who he is look him up.

 

[JoeB131]

And when there are hard times, the CEO's never give up their bonuses and salaries. Nope, we need to cut wages and benefits and payroll...

[*]Chrysler head Lee Iacocca
.

Wow, seriously, you are going back to Lee Iacocca...

You know, back like in the 1970's.


Seriously.

You're going there....

 

[eflatminor]

And when there are hard times, the CEO's never give up their bonuses and salaries. Nope, we need to cut wages and benefits and payroll...

[*]Chrysler head Lee Iacocca
.

Wow, seriously, you are going back to Lee Iacocca...

You know, back like in the 1970's.


Seriously.

You're going there....

Stinking troll. Yea, from the 70s until today, the list of CEOs that given up their salaries during hard times is long. Now scurry back under the rotting pile of refuse from which you came.

Neg'd for being a troll. Barb the idiot too...

 

[JoeB131]

Stinking troll. Yea, from the 70s until today, the list of CEOs that given up their salaries during hard times is long. Now scurry back under the rotting pile of refuse from which you came.

Neg'd for being a troll. Barb the idiot too...

Except when they "give up" their salaries, they still take their stock options...

So they really aren't giving up anything.

 

[Barb]

Stinking troll. Yea, from the 70s until today, the list of CEOs that given up their salaries during hard times is long. Now scurry back under the rotting pile of refuse from which you came.

Neg'd for being a troll. Barb the idiot too...

Except when they "give up" their salaries, they still take their stock options...

So they really aren't giving up anything.

Especially if the salary they've "given p" is actually deferred, in which case the tax on that income is ALSO deferred, all the while that money sits in escrow, not in the economy, and not even in the r&d that mere mortals pension funds often are [researching and developing technologies that put them out of a job before they can collect on contract promises], gaining interest. It's also a huge tax dodge, as taxes paid in real time are more expensive than those paid at some future date, after it was allowed to sit and grow.

Poor corporate CEOs. Maybe someone should host a benefit.