Battle of Bakhmud won by Russia

[JohnDB]

Russia's 'Catastrophic' Campaign In Ukraine Could End In October As Moscow Runs Out Of Options -- Swiss Expert

The war between Russia and Ukraine has been ongoing for more than one year, and despite international efforts, there are no visible indications that the conflict will come to a conclusion anytime soon.

eurasiantimes.com

And even worse news....Republicans have behaved in some of the worst ways possible....

Ukraine War Plans Leak Prompts Pentagon Investigation

Classified documents detailing secret American and NATO plans have appeared on Twitter and Telegram.

www.nytimes.com

 

[para bellum]

And even worse news....Republicans have behaved in some of the worst ways possible....

Why do you accuse Republicans of leaking the documents?

It sounds like this happened in Germany, and if anyone in the Congress would have even seen this (not likely), it would have been limited to the Gang of 8.

It wasn't war plans, it was a status report on 1 Mar, prepared for Milley and USEUCOM. As far as the number of GMRLS used, the Russian side already knows that, since they are the recipients.

The details and timelines of deliveries isn't something that should be made public, but those things can be changed, and the information is 5 weeks old so there isn't likely to be much damage.

The use of the presentation as a disinfo tool means it is not useful militarily. The Russians wanted us to know they had it.

 

[JohnDB]

Why do you accuse Republicans of leaking the documents?

It sounds like this happened in Germany, and if anyone in the Congress would have even seen this (not likely), it would have been limited to the Gang of 8.

It wasn't war plans, it was a status report on 1 Mar, prepared for Milley and USEUCOM. As far as the number of GMRLS used, the Russian side already knows that, since they are the recipients.

The details and timelines of deliveries isn't something that should be made public, but those things can be changed, and the information is 5 weeks old so there isn't likely to be much damage.

The use of the presentation as a disinfo tool means it is not useful militarily. The Russians wanted us to know they had it.

Read the entire article. It's kinda obvious.

If you somehow believe that the GOP wasn't involved...that's really sad.

 

[para bellum]

Read the entire article. It's kinda obvious.

If you somehow believe that the GOP wasn't involved...that's really sad.

I did read the entire article. Quote the part for me that suggests, or in any way implies, that someone in GOP leaked the report. Or even had access to it.

You are leaping to conclusions with absolutely evidence to support your assumption. You just pulled it out out thin air.

Here it is, no paywall.

Ukraine War Plans Leak Prompts Pentagon Investigation

WASHINGTON — Classified war documents detailing secret American and NATO plans for building up the Ukrainian military ahead of a

dnyuz.com

 

[skye]

Wake up!

 

[Kruska]

Neat, but I was talking about Ukrainians, and Ukrainians do.

Ukrainian's are Western Europeans, just as most Russians are.
And no sane Ukrainian want's to die in a war. It's the government of a respective country that orders people to fight and die.
How old are you? 12?

So do the many western volunteers who have signed up.

Mercenaries in general are wannabe Rambo's with immature adventure fantasies, and no moral compass - and simply prefer to die for more money then a draftee.
I personally know some from the LEF and mercenaries having fought in e.g. Rhodesia.
This does not exclude some mercenary fighting for "his personal principles" just as that of an IS or Taliban nutcase.

Please feel free to apply and check if you can pass their psychological admittance program - I doubt it very much.

Légion étrangère

L'armée de Terre recrute et forme toute l'année. 16000 emplois ouverts. Participer à une séance d'information en vous inscrivant sur legion-recrute.com

www.legion-recrute.com

 

[Kruska]

Read the entire article. It's kinda obvious.

If you somehow believe that the GOP wasn't involved...that's really sad.

It also seems to be evident that the original information leaked to the Russian MoD, has been altered by e.g. the GUR upon having received that information around 7-8 weeks ago.
What can be seen on e.g. Twitter is not mirroring the original and total information given.

 

[badger2]

Ukrainian's are Western Europeans, just as most Russians are.
And no sane Ukrainian want's to die in a war. It's the government of a respective country that orders people to fight and die.
How old are you? 12?

Mercenaries in general are wannabe Rambo's with immature adventure fantasies, and no moral compass - and simply prefer to die for more money then a draftee.
I personally know some from the LEF and mercenaries having fought in e.g. Rhodesia.
This does not exclude some mercenary fighting for "his personal principles" just as that of an IS or Taliban nutcase.

Please feel free to apply and check if you can pass their psychological admittance program - I doubt it very much.

Légion étrangère

L'armée de Terre recrute et forme toute l'année. 16000 emplois ouverts. Participer à une séance d'information en vous inscrivant sur legion-recrute.com

www.legion-recrute.com

You argue for a moral compass after the POS that is the CIA fucks with Ukraine for the last 70 years. When the CIA goes to church, it's not to pray. Bahmut is finished. Wagner finished it, morality or no morality.

 

[JohnDB]

You argue for a moral compass after the POS that is the CIA fucks with Ukraine for the last 70 years. When the CIA goes to church, it's not to pray. Bahmut is finished. Wagner finished it, morality or no morality.

Russian invasion of Ukraine is the USA's fault no matter what.
During Bill Clinton's presidency Bill Clinton got Ukraine to surrender its nuclear weapons to Russia. Now maintaining nuclear arsenals is really expensive...so no telling what might have happened to them in the meantime....but in 2014 there goes Crimea to Russian invasion....(Which is why Crimea got its water cut off and a chief tactical maneuver of Russia is to guard this canal)

So no matter what...ultimately because we talked Ukraine into disarming themselves we bear a huge responsibility for helping them out now and in the future.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Russian invasion of Ukraine is the USA's fault no matter what.
During Bill Clinton's presidency Bill Clinton got Ukraine to surrender its nuclear weapons to Russia. Now maintaining nuclear arsenals is really expensive...so no telling what might have happened to them in the meantime....but in 2014 there goes Crimea to Russian invasion....(Which is why Crimea got its water cut off and a chief tactical maneuver of Russia is to guard this canal)

So no matter what...ultimately because we talked Ukraine into disarming themselves we bear a huge responsibility for helping them out now and in the future.

Nonsense, the invasion is 100% Russia's fault. Yakunovych was Putin's man in Kiev and with him gone Putin could no longer control the Ukrainian government; hence the 2014 and 2022 invasions of Ukraine in order to try to control the Ukrainian government.

It's true that if Ukraine still had its nuclear arsenal, Putin wouldn't have dared attack, and if the US and Europe had had any idea what Russia would become after Yeltsin, Russia never would have gotten those missiles or the many billions of dollars of aid or the flourishing trade between Europe and Russia and Russia would have taken its beggar's bowl to Beijing many years earlier.

But back in 1994, the NPT was all the rage in the US and Europe, and it was considered a victory to get Ukraine to sign on to it. Clinton, half clown and half cynical politician, went prancing around bubbling about the "peace dividend" now that Russia was a democracy, and only the countries surrounding Russia, which had been threatened or invaded and held prisoner by Russia over the centuries understood that Russia can never be trusted to behave like a civilized country.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And no sane Ukrainian want's to die in a war.

Right, they want to fight and kill Russians. Just ask them.

Hopefully they kill so many that Putin has to draft little girls. Maybe his brainwashed populace will wake up, then.

 

[badger2]

And more fairy tales: Vicky's CIA was only observing the 2014 Maidan coup and had nothing to do with it.

Bahmut is finished.

 

[Kruska]

You argue for a moral compass after the POS that is the CIA fucks with Ukraine for the last 70 years. When the CIA goes to church, it's not to pray. Bahmut is finished. Wagner finished it, morality or no morality.

Well I do have a moral compass, and I strongly suspect that you have one as well.
This thread is about Bahkmut and not the murderous, criminal CIA, the usual dirty US foreign policy and that of NATO, or Ukraine Nazi militias aka the former Azov brigade and others. - right?

 

[Kruska]

Russian invasion of Ukraine is the USA's fault no matter what.
During Bill Clinton's presidency Bill Clinton got Ukraine to surrender its nuclear weapons to Russia. Now maintaining nuclear arsenals is really expensive...so no telling what might have happened to them in the meantime....but in 2014 there goes Crimea to Russian invasion....(Which is why Crimea got its water cut off and a chief tactical maneuver of Russia is to guard this canal)

So no matter what...ultimately because we talked Ukraine into disarming themselves we bear a huge responsibility for helping them out now and in the future.

Yes and no.
If Ukraine would have continued to renege onto the Almaty deceleration of 1991 - Russia might have attacked them already in 1994. I guess that is the main reason as to why the UK and USA decided to get themselves involved. Independent of the USA and UK getting Ukraine into NATO.

 

[skye]

It's finished .....stop trying to defend Zelensky ... the criminal, globlalist, corrupt puppet.....it's finished....

And as we have been saying all along....we knew this fact a long time ago.... we knew it as a fact.

Bakhmut on the Brink as Russian Forces 'Regain Momentum'—U.K. Intel​

Bakhmut on the brink as Russian forces "regain momentum"—U.K. intel

Russia's advance in and around the city "had largely stalled" at the end of March, the British defense ministry said on Friday.

www.newsweek.com

 

[JohnDB]

Yes and no.
If Ukraine would have continued to renege onto the Almaty deceleration of 1991 - Russia might have attacked them already in 1994. I guess that is the main reason as to why the UK and USA decided to get themselves involved. Independent of the USA and UK getting Ukraine into NATO.

Ukraine was a long way from becoming a part of NATO or the EU...at least a decade away. Largely in part because of the Russian Oligarchs still pulling their corrupt strings of power inside of Ukraine. (Most of which have now left or been traded for prisoners)

And that's going to continue to be a problem for the foreseeable future. Russia has continually run a very specific program of disinformation and disparaging information on subjects in order to destabilize the government it wishes to invade....it's what happened in Crimea and Ukraine.
Because of a traitor in the Ukranian Government (he believed to propaganda)...Putin's troops had almost free unhindered access to the South Eastern portion of Ukraine during its Blitzkrieg. (Which it still holds today)

It takes time for any people group to really understand what a Transparent Democratic government is all about. It has good merits as well as demerits. The Ukranians were still under Russia's thumb until Zelinsky. The EU was thrilled. Russia was angry. And the rhetoric and propaganda teams went into overdrive trying to discredit Zelinski immediately.
I completely agree that if it wasn't for Russian expansion plans there wouldn't be a war today...but I still say that the USA as a whole bears the blame as well because of NPA under the Clinton years.

 

[Kruska]

Ukraine was a long way from becoming a part of NATO or the EU...at least a decade away. Largely in part because of the Russian Oligarchs still pulling their corrupt strings of power inside of Ukraine. (Most of which have now left or been traded for prisoners)

Independent of Russian political influence in certain circles, Ukraine had it's very own plans from the very beginning of it's independence. Kick-starting the "Blackmail" operation towards Russia in 1992/3 in regards to Russia's nukes and thus breaching the Almaty deceleration.

I know this due to my personal relationship to a very influential Ukrainian person (during projects involving Dasa and EADS) - he was a member in the Club of Rome, and also happened to be related to then Ukraine's Prime Minister Leonid Kuchma and later President of Ukraine from 1994 till 2005.

"This person" and Kuchma had their common roots at Baikonur, Kazakhstan and later at company Yuzhmash, the world’s largest or 2nd largest rocket firm, in Dnipropetrovsk.
It was during Kuchma's time that NATO had it's largest Eastward expansion - and Kuchma was all out for it himself. Officially declaring Ukraine's interest to join NATO in 2004.

And since 2004 Russia and Ukraine have been literally onto a warpath with each other.

Putin ahead of the February 2022 invasion demanded NATO remove its deployments east of where they were in 1997, which would nearly cut NATO nearly in half: the 14 countries that have joined from 1999 to 2020 were all in the Eastern half of Europe.

And that's going to continue to be a problem for the foreseeable future. Russia has continually run a very specific program of disinformation and disparaging information on subjects in order to destabilize the government it wishes to invade....it's what happened in Crimea and Ukraine.
Because of a traitor in the Ukranian Government (he believed to propaganda)...Putin's troops had almost free unhindered access to the South Eastern portion of Ukraine during its Blitzkrieg. (Which it still holds today)

Both countries have never been honest to each other - and both countries are experts at disinformation, just as the US government and it's less capable CIA/NSA
There have been and still are a lot of influential Ukrainian persons and circles - that all behold their own specific agendas, some towards Russia, others towards Ukraine and some towards NATO/EU.
Zelensky's one sided daily propaganda show does not reflect the actual political situation in Ukraine - trust me, but it kind of unifies the majority of Ukraine's own interest groups with very differentiating agendas towards those solely favoring Russia.

It takes time for any people group to really understand what a Transparent Democratic government is all about.

You are IMO very wrong - Ukraine's political and economic circles are not interested in democracy, unless it serves their respective agendas for the time being. Independent of those actual real liberal minded common folks in Ukraine and it's politicians that represent less then 20% of it's population.

It has good merits as well as demerits. The Ukranians were still under Russia's thumb until Zelinsky. The EU was thrilled. Russia was angry. And the rhetoric and propaganda teams went into overdrive trying to discredit Zelinski immediately.

No they were not under Russia's thumb - but they were in, let's call it, in balance to Russia, Ukraine's own interests, and those in favor of the West.

I completely agree that if it wasn't for Russian expansion plans there wouldn't be a war today...but I still say that the USA as a whole bears the blame as well because of NPA under the Clinton years.

Aside from the inevitable military confrontation between Ukraine and Russia, especially since 2004 - what "economic" and "political" expansion plans does Russia supposedly have, that the USA/NATO and the EU wouldn't also have? and please do not bring in Georgia.

 

[luiza]

Anyhow , you will want to know that Bakhmut has fallen, though Wagner has yet to confirm that officially . It has been a certainty for several weeks but to a great extent Russia has been happy to sit tight and cut swathes in the ex NATO force which now doubles for the Ukey army .Fly swatting ,only more deadly .
Now Z's suicide boys have run out of everything and only lone gunmen remain with the bulk of the NATO force part moved south and north to help other beleaguered points on the front line .

For those unaware , there is no longer a strictly Ukey defence line . The Ukeys are injured , maimed , killed or went AWOL . They have been replaced by ex NATO personnel who were allowed to resign in order to immediately sign up for private contractors . Usual skullduggery .

 

[JohnDB]

Independent of Russian political influence in certain circles, Ukraine had it's very own plans from the very beginning of it's independence. Kick-starting the "Blackmail" operation towards Russia in 1992/3 in regards to Russia's nukes and thus breaching the Almaty deceleration.

I know this due to my personal relationship to a very influential Ukrainian person (during projects involving Dasa and EADS) - he was a member in the Club of Rome, and also happened to be related to then Ukraine's Prime Minister Leonid Kuchma and later President of Ukraine from 1994 till 2005.

"This person" and Kuchma had their common roots at Baikonur, Kazakhstan and later at company Yuzhmash, the world’s largest or 2nd largest rocket firm, in Dnipropetrovsk.
It was during Kuchma's time that NATO had it's largest Eastward expansion - and Kuchma was all out for it himself. Officially declaring Ukraine's interest to join NATO in 2004.

And since 2004 Russia and Ukraine have been literally onto a warpath with each other.

Putin ahead of the February 2022 invasion demanded NATO remove its deployments east of where they were in 1997, which would nearly cut NATO nearly in half: the 14 countries that have joined from 1999 to 2020 were all in the Eastern half of Europe.

Both countries have never been honest to each other - and both countries are experts at disinformation, just as the US government and it's less capable CIA/NSA
There have been and still are a lot of influential Ukrainian persons and circles - that all behold their own specific agendas, some towards Russia, others towards Ukraine and some towards NATO/EU.
Zelensky's one sided daily propaganda show does not reflect the actual political situation in Ukraine - trust me, but it kind of unifies the majority of Ukraine's own interest groups with very differentiating agendas towards those solely favoring Russia.

You are IMO very wrong - Ukraine's political and economic circles are not interested in democracy, unless it serves their respective agendas for the time being. Independent of those actual real liberal minded common folks in Ukraine and it's politicians that represent less then 20% of it's population.

No they were not under Russia's thumb - but they were in, let's call it, in balance to Russia, Ukraine's own interests, and those in favor of the West.

Aside from the inevitable military confrontation between Ukraine and Russia, especially since 2004 - what "economic" and "political" expansion plans does Russia supposedly have, that the USA/NATO and the EU wouldn't also have? and please do not bring in Georgia.

Russia wants and demands Crimea's ports because all of Russia's ports are literally frozen in the winter months. Their trade by cargo ships of oil and gas and other goods is limited by their ports being frozen in the winter. Also Russia has not been paying fair global trade prices for Ukraine groceries....but had blocked Ukranians groceries from being sold on the open global market. When Zelinski came along with global trade for Ukranians agricultural products it infuriated Russia to no end. The manufacturing of rocket engines is of secondary military importance....not primary.

Secondly,
NATO is purely defensive in nature. Defensive troops and munitions are NOT the same as Offensive troops. I have been studying this for a long time as an armchair military strategist. What is really required to invade and conquer another country militarily?. NATO munitions and equipment and soldiers have no Offensive capabilities as per the treaties. Any and all exercises are about the repelling of invading forces....namely China and Russia because of their regular, publicly stated goals and ambitions that they have willingly demonstrated on a regular basis.

Russia has failed at invading Ukraine in all truth. Why on earth they thought that this was going to work is a bit of a mystery to me. Especially with such limited Offensive capabilities and known backlash of consequences. They were completely unsuccessful in destroying communications or command and control leadership. They only had successfully created one traitor in the Southeast.

Nobody in NATO wants Russia to be conquered by anybody. Nor does NATO want Russia to be a Vassal State. We don't want to fill Russia with immigrants or any other such fool thing. We have a treaty to stand together as a wall against the many times Russia and China have invaded and looted other countries because their Communist Plutocracy is a model for failure and we don't want to be looted.

Eastern Ukraine is a disaster zone....their entire infrastructure and cities are completely demolished. The few pieces of infrastructure that Russia has rebuilt is solely for their invasion efforts. No other reason or purpose. The looting of every durable goods equipment vendor is obvious. (Good luck with a bypassing patch for the JD tractors and harvesters....I hear there is one but it's not very good)

If Russia can actually survive the summer and Fall I will be very surprised. Their financial reserves are on target to be depleted by June or July and the Ruble is falling again to historic lows. The war is far from over for Ukraine...they have newly highly trained troops and equipment and are preparing for not one but two counteroffensive attacks. Ones Russia is ill prepared for. Their logistics and finances are not capable of keeping up with the entire western world.

 

[JohnDB]