Battle of Bakhmud won by Russia

[para bellum]

Situation in Bakhmut: Unchanged...

 

[JWBooth]

The equipment and trained soldiers are in country...they are currently doing some training of others themselves and getting staged in various undisclosed locations.

Then if Zelinski can get a few thousand more soldiers...he will have more than enough to eradicate Russian soldiers out of Ukraine.

He's pretty much burned through anybody willing to to be there. His only Ukrainian options now are kids, draft dodgers, and old people. NATO mercs are now his only real manpower source.

 

[JohnDB]

He's pretty much burned through anybody willing to to be there. His only Ukrainian options now are kids, draft dodgers, and old people. NATO mercs are now his only real manpower source.

Nope....
You really don't understand Ukraine and its people. This isn't Russia or any westernized country. He will get more.
Besides....Poland is helping Ukraine by asking for volunteers of former servicemen to go. Slightly older but never underestimate the fight in grumpy old men. We are intentionally brutal.

And NATO mercs are a myth...well ones involved in this fight at least.
I know that for many people immigration to Ukraine is not for them. But it really is for some former servicemembers. FUNKER530 has an interview with one such individual and others who went because they wanted to help Ukraine and they could. They aren't armchair quarterback fanatics and knew exactly that war is ugly, brutal and hell. But they didn't want that for innocent people. Life in Ukraine is relatively inexpensive compared to the USA. And someone with a modest amount of savings can live there quite comfortably in a retired state or start a business with plenty of available labor.

War is a horror....anything that can be done to prevent it should be done at all costs. But when you are invaded....you have no choice but to fight for your rights to live. Which is what Ukraine is experiencing.

Russia is trying to annex Ukraine for financial gain. There's no security issue or terrorism issue at all. They want the unfrozen winter ports in Crimea pure and simple as well as the other resources that Ukraine has and doesn't want to pay for...as if the Plutocrats in Russia are in danger of going to the poor house anytime soon.

 

[para bellum]

He's pretty much burned through anybody willing to to be there. His only Ukrainian options now are kids, draft dodgers, and old people. NATO mercs are now his only real manpower source.

So the longest battle of the war, for an insignificant little salt-mining town of 70,000, the mighty Russian army is unable to defeat a ragtag bunch of kids and old men?

And probably has more casualties in the 7 months trying to take Bakhmut, than the USSR had in ten years in Afghanistan....

 

[Silver Cat]

So the longest battle of the war, for an insignificant little salt-mining town of 70,000, the mighty Russian army is unable to defeat a ragtag bunch of kids and old men?

And probably has more casualties in the 7 months trying to take Bakhmut, than the USSR had in ten years in Afghanistan....

The Russians don't really care about casualties when they feel themselves endangered. "If the enemy didn't surrender, it must be eliminated". Actually, they already saved millions of Russian people in Novorussia, and the price was pretty acceptable for them. Now, they are going to "liberate" the rest of Ukraine.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Russians don't really care about casualties when they feel themselves endangered. "If the enemy didn't surrender, it must be eliminated". Actually, they already saved millions of Russian people in Novorussia, and the price was pretty acceptable for them. Now, they are going to "liberate" the rest of Ukraine.

And they are going to do this with WWII tanks.

 

[para bellum]

The Russians don't really care about casualties when they feel themselves endangered. "If the enemy didn't surrender, it must be eliminated". Actually, they already saved millions of Russian people in Novorussia, and the price was pretty acceptable for them. Now, they are going to "liberate" the rest of Ukraine.

I don't entertain fantasies about imaginary lands and people.

I do agree that Russians, and their leadership, are indifferent to the suffering an destruction they've inflicted on Ukraine and Russia alike. That is a sick society, right there.

I don't know what the rest of the year looks like. I'm trying to not get out over my skis. I've learned not to underestimate the AFU, but they are NOT being provided the equipment and ammunition needed to defeat the Russian army in Ukraine.

 

[Silver Cat]

And they are going to do this with WWII tanks.

They will do it with their bare hands and teeth, if necessary, but much more likely, they will use nuclear weapon.

 

[Silver Cat]

I don't entertain fantasies about imaginary lands and people.

I do agree that Russians, and their leadership, are indifferent to the suffering an destruction they've inflicted on Ukraine and Russia alike. That is a sick society, right there.

They are not sick. From their point of view, they are pretty healthy.

I don't know what the rest of the year looks like. I'm trying to not get out over my skis. I've learned not to underestimate the AFU, but they are NOT being provided the equipment and ammunition needed to defeat the Russian army in Ukraine.

Therefore, Russia will crush Ukrainian regime, and it will be good. The only problem here is that they won't stop at the Western Ukrainian border.

 

[para bellum]

Therefore, Russia will crush Ukrainian regime, and it will be good. The only problem here is that they won't stop at the Western Ukrainian border.

Well, that isn't gonna happen either, lol.

Stalemate much like what we have now is more likely, on some different lines, followed by more of the same.

 

[para bellum]

They are not sick. From their point of view, they are pretty healthy.

Thinking it's perfectly fine to raze cities and eradicate an entire people is a viewpoint of a very sick culture, not a healthy one.

The willingness to commit suicide in the process is the mark of a cult.

 

[toomuchtime_]

They will do it with their bare hands and teeth, if necessary, but much more likely, they will use nuclear weapon.

No, clearly they won't do it at all, and certainly not with your fantasies about nuclear weapons.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Russians don't really care about casualties when they feel themselves endangered. "If the enemy didn't surrender, it must be eliminated". Actually, they already saved millions of Russian people in Novorussia, and the price was pretty acceptable for them. Now, they are going to "liberate" the rest of Ukraine.

So Russian mothers don't care if their sons lie dead and rotting in some field in Ukraine, and Russian wives have no other use for their husbands than to die defending delusions of Russia being a superpower, and you find this admirable?

 

[gipper]

They are not sick. From their point of view, they are pretty healthy.

Therefore, Russia will crush Ukrainian regime, and it will be good. The only problem here is that they won't stop at the Western Ukrainian border.

What makes you think Russia has designs on nations west of Ukraine?

Their military has their hands full trying to pacify Ukraine. Yet you think they will invade Europe.

 

[JohnDB]

What makes you think Russia has designs on nations west of Ukraine?

Their military has their hands full trying to pacify Ukraine. Yet you think they will invade Europe.

Yes....
They have said so many times publicly and privately. They have battle plans and an order of operation for doing so. Poland is gearing up their military for this reason....they are Russia's next target after Ukraine.

It's not a secret or anything. Since they have attacked Ukraine what happens after Ukraine falls?

 

[gipper]

Yes....
They have said so many times publicly and privately. They have battle plans and an order of operation for doing so. Poland is gearing up their military for this reason....they are Russia's next target after Ukraine.

It's not a secret or anything. Since they have attacked Ukraine what happens after Ukraine falls?

No. There is no evidence of this. Propaganda.

 

[Silver Cat]

Well, that isn't gonna happen either, lol.

Stalemate much like what we have now is more likely, on some different lines, followed by more of the same.

The only question is that Ukraine will be lacking of young males in two or three years, even if the Russians won't escalate.

 

[Silver Cat]

What makes you think Russia has designs on nations west of Ukraine?

Their military has their hands full trying to pacify Ukraine. Yet you think they will invade Europe.

Russian goals, openly declared by them many times are simple:
In Ukraine - demilitarisation, denazification, recognise of new Russian territories, equal rights for local Russians.
In Europe - return of NATO military infrastructure to 1997 borders, reintegration of Kosovo back in Serbia.
In the world - end of American domination, building the "multipolar world".

 

[Silver Cat]

So Russian mothers don't care if their sons lie dead and rotting in some field in Ukraine, and Russian wives have no other use for their husbands than to die defending delusions of Russia being a superpower, and you find this admirable?

No. Their mother's love their sons and husbands, of course, but they don't want to be killed by the Western invaders and if there is a choice between elimination of Nazism in Ukraine by a Special Military Operation and another large-scale war in Russia - the choice is obvious. And, if there is a choice between being occupied and discriminated by Western Armies and fighting the war against them with all possible means - yes, for most of them fighting back is the better option. They know what they are fighting for. It's just a collective self-defence.

Konstantin Simonov
Kill him!​

If your house means a thing to you
Where you first dreamed your Russian dreams
In your swinging cradle, afloat
Beneath the log ceiling beams.
If your house means a thing to you
With its stove, corners, walls and floors
Worn smooth by the footsteps of three
Generations of ancestors.
If your small garden means a thing:
With its May blooms and bees humming low,
With its table your grandfather built
Neath the linden — a century ago.
If you don’t want a German to tread
The floor in your house and chance
To sit in your ancestors’ place
And destroy your yard’s trees and plants...

If your mother is dear to you
And the breast that gave you suck
Which hasn’t had milk for years
But is now where you put your cheek;
If you cannot stand the thought
Of a German’s doing her harm,
Beating her furrowed face
With her braids wound round his arm.
And those hands which carried you
To your cradle — washing instead
A German’s dirty clothes
Or making him his bed...

If you haven't forgotten your father
Who tossed you and teased your toes.
Who was a good soldier, who vanished
In the high Carpathian snows,
Who died for your motherland’s fate,
For each Don and each Volga wave.
If you don’t want him in his sleeping
To turn over in his grave,
When a German tears his soldier picture
With crosses from its place
And before your own mother’s eyes
Stamps hobnailed boots on his face.

If you don’t want to give away
Her you walked with and didn’t touch,
Her you didn’t dare even to kiss
For a long time — you loved her so much.
And the Germans cornering her
And taking her alive by force.
Crucifying her — three of them
Naked, on the floor; with coarse
Moans, hate, and blood, —
Those dogs taking advantage of
All you sacredly preserved
With your strong, male love...

If you don’t want to give away
To a German with his black gun
Your house, your mother, your wife —
All that’s yours as a native son —
No: No one will save your land
If you don’t save it from the worst.
No: No one will kill this foe.
If you don’t kill him first.
And until you have killed him, don’t
Talk about your love — and
Call the house where you lived your home
Or the land where you grew up your land.

If your brother killed a German,
If your neighbor killed one too.
It’s your brother’s and neighbor’s vengeance,
And it’s no revenge for you.
You can’t sit behind another
Letting him fire your shot.
If your brother kills a German,
He’s a soldier; you are not.
So kill that German so he
Will lie on the ground’s backbone.
So the funeral wailing will be
In his house, not in your own.
He wanted it so — It’s his guilt —
Let his house burn up, and his life.
Let his woman become a widow;
Don’t let it be your wife.
Don’t let your mother tire from tears;
Let the one who bore him bear the pain.
Don’t let it be yours, but his
Family who will wait in vain.

So kill at least one of them
And as soon as you can.
Still Each one you chance to see!
Kill him! Kill him! Kill!

 

[gipper]

Russian goals, openly declared by them many times are simple:
In Ukraine - demilitarisation, denazification, recognise of new Russian territories, equal rights for local Russians.
In Europe - return of NATO military infrastructure to 1997 borders, reintegration of Kosovo back in Serbia.
In the world - end of American domination, building the "multipolar world".

None of that says they will invade Europe.