Before 1860 secession was considered to be constitutional

[Old Rocks]

Hey Bripat, you lost then, you continue to lose now. The South is and always will be part of the Union. One Nation, Indivisable, with Liberty and Justice for All. Don't like that, get your scummy as to some other nation.

 

[Joe Steel]

How does that change the fact mentioned above?

The document we call the Constitution is, in fact, a compact with a constitution. The preamble is a compact which forms a political body, the United States, when it says "we the people of the United States." It is establishes their sovereignty. As sovereign, the United States is theirs to maintain or abrogate. The power does not belong with the States. The States exist at the pleasure of the People.

The Calhounites, who believed in the authority of the State not the People, would not have agreed with you.

Many opinions are developed and offered to the citizens then are rejected and discarded. Sometimes they are resurrected. "States rights" is one of them.

The American People love big government. Since the founding of the republic they have had no problem turning to Washington to for solutions to their problems. States rights is for the losers, the ones can't get Washington to do what they want.

 

[Joe Steel]

The document we call the Constitution is, in fact, a compact with a constitution. The preamble is a compact which forms a political body, the United States, when it says "we the people of the United States." It is establishes their sovereignty. As sovereign, the United States is theirs to maintain or abrogate. The power does not belong with the States. The States exist at the pleasure of the People.

The states approved the Constitution.

No they didn't.

The state ratifying conventions were called explicitly and exclusively to ratify the Constitution. They were not created by the state legislatures and did not represent the state governments. The represented the people of the state. As a creature of the sovereign, the United State cannot be dissolved by the states but only by the People.

 

[editec]

The CSA as a WHOLE PEOPLE decided to secede. The citizens of the states voted and elected the men who voted to secede from the union therefore the people as a whole decided to leave.

East Tennessee was so opposed to secession that the Confederacy ended up having to put troops in the region to control the population. Speaking of tyranny.

I beleive they had the same problem in some Nothern Georgian counties.

And WESTERN Virginia clearly was not down with the CSA.

Everything that the CSA claimed they opposed about the Union the CSA then did to its own people.

The war was about one thing and one thing only...protecting slavery.

Everything else CSA apologists tell you is rationalizing BS.

Death to all slavers

 

[NYcarbineer]

Typically those ships had New England owners and crews. A bunch of damn Yankees purchased the slaves in Africa, crammed them into the filthy holds of their slave ships and then carted them to Charleston or Baltimore where they were sold.

However, that's all academic, since according to the moral code of the Lincoln cult might makes right and those slaves got just what they deserved, right Sallow?

Lack of knowledge again There had been no active legal slave trade from Africa in YEARS. Further Lincoln had no intention of doing anything about slavery, He knew he lacked the votes in Congress to accomplish anything. Further he did not do ANYTHING about Slavery until 2 years into the war. And then only to those States still revolting.

Aside from the deluded members of the Lincoln cult, who ever claimed he actually wanted to free the slaves? Whether the slave trade was active or not, it's still a fact that it originated in New England, and all the profits when to New England. Northerners made all the money off the slave trade, yet the sanctimoniously call anyone who defends the confederate states racists who defend slavery.

So your logic is that Northerners should have supported slavery in the South because some of their ancestors were in the slave trade?

WTF?

 

[National Socialist]

Hey Bripat, you lost then, you continue to lose now. The South is and always will be part of the Union. One Nation, Indivisable, with Liberty and Justice for All. Don't like that, get your scummy as to some other nation.

The CSA as a WHOLE PEOPLE decided to secede. The citizens of the states voted and elected the men who voted to secede from the union therefore the people as a whole decided to leave.

East Tennessee was so opposed to secession that the Confederacy ended up having to put troops in the region to control the population. Speaking of tyranny.

I beleive they had the same problem in some Nothern Georgian counties.

And WESTERN Virginia clearly was not down with the CSA.

Everything that the CSA claimed they opposed about the Union the CSA then did to its own people.

The war was about one thing and one thing only...protecting slavery.

Everything else CSA apologists tell you is rationalizing BS.

Death to all slavers

Except for the fact one of the South's greatest Generals was from WV and MANY units from WV fought for the south. The war was about independence from an over reaching government. Slavery had died out everywhere else peacefully and would have done so in the south as well.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The CSA as a WHOLE PEOPLE decided to secede. The citizens of the states voted and elected the men who voted to secede from the union therefore the people as a whole decided to leave.

So you're claiming it was unanimous. There was not even minority opposition in the seceding states?

Are you sure you want to go with that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hey Bripat, you lost then, you continue to lose now. The South is and always will be part of the Union. One Nation, Indivisable, with Liberty and Justice for All. Don't like that, get your scummy as to some other nation.

East Tennessee was so opposed to secession that the Confederacy ended up having to put troops in the region to control the population. Speaking of tyranny.

I beleive they had the same problem in some Nothern Georgian counties.

And WESTERN Virginia clearly was not down with the CSA.

Everything that the CSA claimed they opposed about the Union the CSA then did to its own people.

The war was about one thing and one thing only...protecting slavery.

Everything else CSA apologists tell you is rationalizing BS.

Death to all slavers

Except for the fact one of the South's greatest Generals was from WV and MANY units from WV fought for the south. The war was about independence from an over reaching government. Slavery had died out everywhere else peacefully and would have done so in the south as well.

What was the overreach exactly?

 

[Sallow]

Yes they were point being? No flag of the CSA ever flew over a slave ship..the stars and stripes did...typical idiot hates the sources so throws baby out with the bath water.

Typically those ships had New England owners and crews. A bunch of damn Yankees purchased the slaves in Africa, crammed them into the filthy holds of their slave ships and then carted them to Charleston or Baltimore where they were sold.

However, that's all academic, since according to the moral code of the Lincoln cult might makes right and those slaves got just what they deserved, right Sallow?

Your knowledge of history is just about as good as your knowledge of the Constitution.

In any case, those poor poor Southerners had no intention of getting rid of their free labor.

Hence the war.

 

[Sallow]

Hey Bripat, you lost then, you continue to lose now. The South is and always will be part of the Union. One Nation, Indivisable, with Liberty and Justice for All. Don't like that, get your scummy as to some other nation.

East Tennessee was so opposed to secession that the Confederacy ended up having to put troops in the region to control the population. Speaking of tyranny.

I beleive they had the same problem in some Nothern Georgian counties.

And WESTERN Virginia clearly was not down with the CSA.

Everything that the CSA claimed they opposed about the Union the CSA then did to its own people.

The war was about one thing and one thing only...protecting slavery.

Everything else CSA apologists tell you is rationalizing BS.

Death to all slavers

Except for the fact one of the South's greatest Generals was from WV and MANY units from WV fought for the south. The war was about independence from an over reaching government. Slavery had died out everywhere else peacefully and would have done so in the south as well.

That's bullshit.

And the invention of the cotton gin actually increased the demand for slaves.

 

[midcan5]

The grand irony of the arguments for secession were first: state's rights to keep blacks slaves and now the election of a black man to be president. Could it be said that some people never change or the same ideas return in slightly difference form even though fundamentally the same.

It’s peculiar, because “states’ rights” has become a popular refrain in Republican circles lately. Last year Gov. Rick Perry of Texas wondered aloud whether secession was his state’s right in the aftermath of laws out of Congress that he disliked.

In part because of this renewed rhetoric, in the coming remembrances we will likely hear more from folks who cling to the whitewash explanation for secession and the Civil War. But you have only to look at the honest words of the secessionists to see why all those men put on uniforms." Gone With the Myths - NYTimes.com


Southern Arguments for and Against Secession from the Union - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

Agrument v Lincoln's position http://apollo3.com/~jameso/secession.html

FindLaw's Writ - Dorf: Does the Constitution Permit the Blue States to Secede?


But this constant argument is an interesting twist as the [many of] same wingnuts who argue we had a right to invade Iraq because it was bad, see no evil in the slavery reason for the civil war, instead like all revisionists they now stress state rights and ignore the key reason for the civil war.


"Her conclusion is that the Americans who fought the Civil War overwhelmingly thought they were fighting about slavery, and that we should take their word for it."

AmericanHeritage.com / Why the Civil War Was Fought, Really
AmericanHeritage.com / How the North Lost the Civil War

Scotus ruling on secession Texas v. White

Admission of state to union FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Article IV: Annotations pg. 16 of 18


"A primary element of this Southern understanding of the Constitution was the right to secede. Nowhere does the original document confer the right to detach from the Union, but Southerners still found the act "entirely legitimate under the terms of the federal Constitution” (Cook 114). Perhaps one could construe the tenth amendment to grant such a right, but Article six states that all government officials must support "this Constitution,” which runs contrary to secession (U.S. Const. 6.0.3 and Am. 10, from Gienapp 435-6). Alexander Stevens used this principle as a premise in his argument against secession (59). Yet, despite this Constitutional opposition, or at least ambivalence, to secession, South Carolina declared that it had such a right. " (from above url)

 

[National Socialist]

The CSA as a WHOLE PEOPLE decided to secede. The citizens of the states voted and elected the men who voted to secede from the union therefore the people as a whole decided to leave.

So you're claiming it was unanimous. There was not even minority opposition in the seceding states?

Are you sure you want to go with that?

Didn't say that. They did as we do now. Elected people to speak for them and they did so.

Yes they were point being? No flag of the CSA ever flew over a slave ship..the stars and stripes did...typical idiot hates the sources so throws baby out with the bath water.

Typically those ships had New England owners and crews. A bunch of damn Yankees purchased the slaves in Africa, crammed them into the filthy holds of their slave ships and then carted them to Charleston or Baltimore where they were sold.

However, that's all academic, since according to the moral code of the Lincoln cult might makes right and those slaves got just what they deserved, right Sallow?

Your knowledge of history is just about as good as your knowledge of the Constitution.

In any case, those poor poor Southerners had no intention of getting rid of their free labor.

Hence the war.

Show us where he is wrong....

Hey Bripat, you lost then, you continue to lose now. The South is and always will be part of the Union. One Nation, Indivisable, with Liberty and Justice for All. Don't like that, get your scummy as to some other nation.

I beleive they had the same problem in some Nothern Georgian counties.

And WESTERN Virginia clearly was not down with the CSA.

Everything that the CSA claimed they opposed about the Union the CSA then did to its own people.

The war was about one thing and one thing only...protecting slavery.

Everything else CSA apologists tell you is rationalizing BS.

Death to all slavers

Except for the fact one of the South's greatest Generals was from WV and MANY units from WV fought for the south. The war was about independence from an over reaching government. Slavery had died out everywhere else peacefully and would have done so in the south as well.

That's bullshit.

And the invention of the cotton gin actually increased the demand for slaves.

In 1864, the Confederate States began to abandon slavery. There are some indications that even without a war, the Confederacy would have ended slavery. Most historians believe that the Confederacy only started to abandon slavery once their defeat was imminent. If that were true then we are to believe that the CSA wanted independence more than they wanted to hold on to slavery. The CSA’s highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston were not slave holders and did not believe in slavery. And according to an 1860 census, only 31% of families owned slaves. 75% of families that owned slaves owned less than 10 and often worked beside them in the fields. The Confederate Constitution banned the overseas slave trade, and permitted Confederate states to abolish slavery within their borders if they wanted to do so. Slavery wasn’t abolished until 1868, 3 years after the war. Thus Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware still had slaves.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The CSA as a WHOLE PEOPLE decided to secede. The citizens of the states voted and elected the men who voted to secede from the union therefore the people as a whole decided to leave.

So you're claiming it was unanimous. There was not even minority opposition in the seceding states?

Are you sure you want to go with that?

Didn't say that. They did as we do now. Elected people to speak for them and they did so.

.

So did the United States. So the seceding states were upset they were being 'tyrannized' by the majority and so they tyrannized their own minorities in their states, those who wanted to remain in the Union,

and forced them to accept secession?

Where's the principle in that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'd like to see some state like Texas try to secede today, and have to explain why

1. most of the money Texans have paid into Social Security and Medicare would be lost.

2. tens of thousands of federal jobs would be leaving the state

...for starters...

 

[thanatos144]

The CSA as a WHOLE PEOPLE decided to secede. The citizens of the states voted and elected the men who voted to secede from the union therefore the people as a whole decided to leave.

So you're claiming it was unanimous. There was not even minority opposition in the seceding states?

Are you sure you want to go with that?

Didn't say that. They did as we do now. Elected people to speak for them and they did so.

Show us where he is wrong....

Except for the fact one of the South's greatest Generals was from WV and MANY units from WV fought for the south. The war was about independence from an over reaching government. Slavery had died out everywhere else peacefully and would have done so in the south as well.

That's bullshit.

And the invention of the cotton gin actually increased the demand for slaves.

In 1864, the Confederate States began to abandon slavery. There are some indications that even without a war, the Confederacy would have ended slavery. Most historians believe that the Confederacy only started to abandon slavery once their defeat was imminent. If that were true then we are to believe that the CSA wanted independence more than they wanted to hold on to slavery. The CSA’s highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston were not slave holders and did not believe in slavery. And according to an 1860 census, only 31% of families owned slaves. 75% of families that owned slaves owned less than 10 and often worked beside them in the fields. The Confederate Constitution banned the overseas slave trade, and permitted Confederate states to abolish slavery within their borders if they wanted to do so. Slavery wasn’t abolished until 1868, 3 years after the war. Thus Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware still had slaves.

Revisionist history debunked by the fact that the confederate constitution expressly admits they seceded to protect slavery.

 

[candycorn]

It's only a matter of time until the mules pulling the wagon wake up and throw off their chains. When that happens, a serious discussion of the secession issue will get underway.

It would be lighter if the poverty stricken states in the South would get off the wagon you fucking idiot.

They tried to get off the wagon once, moron.

If you don't like it, get the fuck out of my country. That's your solution, isn't it?

Don't make me laugh (too late bitch).

I'm quite happy with the Nation the way it is; we're getting more enlightened every day;

National Healthcare is being, at least, attempted to rectify costs that other advanced nations are not experiencing,

Two wars (one needless, and one that should have been over in 2006) are over for all intent and purposes.

Our President kept us out of other Iraq style mis-adventures that you morons were shouting for him to get involved in.

More and more states are recognizing marriage equality between same sex couples

The deficit is coming down, the economy is coming back and Mr. Obama is getting set to appoint new justices to the Supreme Court to cement the gains over the last 8 years.

Why would I leave? I like it here.

Now lets look at you;

A new complaint every day about something...
Sponsoring disolving of the nation you supposedly "love"...
Endless bitching, whining, empty threats, pathetic stances, revisionist history, and you're generally a zero balance human being.

You're the one that is catatonic....either shit or get off the pot. If you don't like it here and don't have the sack to do something about it...leave. If you want to do something about it, Fort Campbell is in Kentucky, grab Mudwhistle and the other rednecks here and take your chances with the 101st Airborne.

Good luck. Hope they televise it.

 

[candycorn]

So you're claiming it was unanimous. There was not even minority opposition in the seceding states?

Are you sure you want to go with that?

Didn't say that. They did as we do now. Elected people to speak for them and they did so.

Show us where he is wrong....

That's bullshit.

And the invention of the cotton gin actually increased the demand for slaves.

In 1864, the Confederate States began to abandon slavery. There are some indications that even without a war, the Confederacy would have ended slavery. Most historians believe that the Confederacy only started to abandon slavery once their defeat was imminent. If that were true then we are to believe that the CSA wanted independence more than they wanted to hold on to slavery. The CSA’s highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston were not slave holders and did not believe in slavery. And according to an 1860 census, only 31% of families owned slaves. 75% of families that owned slaves owned less than 10 and often worked beside them in the fields. The Confederate Constitution banned the overseas slave trade, and permitted Confederate states to abolish slavery within their borders if they wanted to do so. Slavery wasn’t abolished until 1868, 3 years after the war. Thus Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware still had slaves.

Revisionist history debunked by the fact that the confederate constitution expressly admits they seceded to protect slavery.

It actually only started with Slavery....

The Confederacy's Plan to Conquer Latin America | Mental Floss

The heart of darkness in the Confederacy leadership really knew no bounds. I firmly belive that not all southerners shared such designs

 

[bripat9643]

If that's the case, then Lincoln committed mass murder. He ordered Federal troops to slaughter thousands of Americans. He burned their property, raped their women, slaughtered their cattle and pigs.

Are you really that ignorant of the Constitution?

He had the power to squash insurrection.

You wanna consider that mass murder? It's war.

He left out "freed the slaves"....I guess we'll hear next that there were no slaves; just employees who didn't know how to negotiate.

I'm beginning to believe you're actually retarded.

 

[bripat9643]

It would be lighter if the poverty stricken states in the South would get off the wagon you fucking idiot.

They tried to get off the wagon once, moron.

If you don't like it, get the fuck out of my country. That's your solution, isn't it?

Don't make me laugh (too late bitch).

I'm quite happy with the Nation the way it is; we're getting more enlightened every day;

National Healthcare is being, at least, attempted to rectify costs that other advanced nations are not experiencing,

Two wars (one needless, and one that should have been over in 2006) are over for all intent and purposes.

Our President kept us out of other Iraq style mis-adventures that you morons were shouting for him to get involved in.

More and more states are recognizing marriage equality between same sex couples

The deficit is coming down, the economy is coming back and Mr. Obama is getting set to appoint new justices to the Supreme Court to cement the gains over the last 8 years.

Why would I leave? I like it here.

Now lets look at you;

A new complaint every day about something...
Sponsoring disolving of the nation you supposedly "love"...
Endless bitching, whining, empty threats, pathetic stances, revisionist history, and you're generally a zero balance human being.

You're the one that is catatonic....either shit or get off the pot. If you don't like it here and don't have the sack to do something about it...leave. If you want to do something about it, Fort Campbell is in Kentucky, grab Mudwhistle and the other rednecks here and take your chances with the 101st Airborne.

Good luck. Hope they televise it.

Morons like you have been whining for 50 years that the country is racist, sexist and homophobe. Look who your avatar is: the poster girl for the Democrat's propaganda war claiming the Republicans have a war on women. If Sandra Fluk doesn't like the way women are treated hear, she can take your advice and get the fuck out. You can also take the same advice.

There's no natural limit to the hypocrisy of libturds.

 

[bripat9643]

So you're claiming it was unanimous. There was not even minority opposition in the seceding states?

Are you sure you want to go with that?

Didn't say that. They did as we do now. Elected people to speak for them and they did so.

Show us where he is wrong....

That's bullshit.

And the invention of the cotton gin actually increased the demand for slaves.

In 1864, the Confederate States began to abandon slavery. There are some indications that even without a war, the Confederacy would have ended slavery. Most historians believe that the Confederacy only started to abandon slavery once their defeat was imminent. If that were true then we are to believe that the CSA wanted independence more than they wanted to hold on to slavery. The CSA’s highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston were not slave holders and did not believe in slavery. And according to an 1860 census, only 31% of families owned slaves. 75% of families that owned slaves owned less than 10 and often worked beside them in the fields. The Confederate Constitution banned the overseas slave trade, and permitted Confederate states to abolish slavery within their borders if they wanted to do so. Slavery wasn’t abolished until 1868, 3 years after the war. Thus Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware still had slaves.

Revisionist history debunked by the fact that the confederate constitution expressly admits they seceded to protect slavery.

Don't bother trying to commit logic in the future. It's obviously not something you're equipped for.