Before 1860 secession was considered to be constitutional

What we are saying is :

1- There was no need to wipe out 620,000 Americans when slavery was on its way out

2- There was no need to create the precedent that DC could dictate to the states and violate their sovereignty.

.

The idea slavery was on the way out is entirely false.

.

Great Britain, Cuba, Brazil, and the Congo ended slavery peacefully in the nineteenth century by real statesmen in those countries.

"Some people have objected that the United States couldn't have bought the freedom of all the slaves, because that would have cost too much," Powell writes. "But buying the freedom of the slaves was not more expensive than war. Nothing is more costly than war!" In fact, the North's financial costs of war alone would have been enough to purchase the freedom of all the slaves, and then ended slavery legally and constitutionally.

.

So we should have taken a policy of appeasement of slaveholders? Really?

This also assumes the South would have gladly sold their slaves and then gone into the fields to do what they considered ****** work. I don't think so!

Alexis de Toqueville, Democracy in America, 1832:
Upon the left bank of the Ohio labor is confounded with the idea of slavery, while upon the right bank it is identifies with that of prosperity and improvement; on the one side it is degraded, on the other it is honored. On the former territory no white laborers can be found, for they would be afraid of assimilating themselves to the Negroes; all the work is done by slaves; on the latter no one is idle, for the white population extend their activity and intelligence to every kind of employment. Thus the men whose task it is to cultivate the rich soil of Kentucky are ignorant and apathetic, while those who are active and enlightened either do nothing or pass over into Ohio, where they may work without shame.

Tocqueville: Book I Chapter 18

Even after we abolished slavery, the South still kept blacks in bondage well into the 20th century.
 
Last edited:
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.[1]

Alexander Stephens - March 21, 1861
Vice president of the confederacy
The "Conerstone Address"

Anyone who is still trying to argue that the American Civil War was "not about slavery" is historically challenged.
 
The idea slavery was on the way out is entirely false.

.

Great Britain, Cuba, Brazil, and the Congo ended slavery peacefully in the nineteenth century by real statesmen in those countries.

"Some people have objected that the United States couldn't have bought the freedom of all the slaves, because that would have cost too much," Powell writes. "But buying the freedom of the slaves was not more expensive than war. Nothing is more costly than war!" In fact, the North's financial costs of war alone would have been enough to purchase the freedom of all the slaves, and then ended slavery legally and constitutionally.

.

This countries didnt have hillbilly Democrats fighting to keep slavery.

Many of their descendants are Republicans today, led by the racist Dixiecrat Strom Thurmond (who made the longest filibuster in Senate history in his opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1957) into the GOP as part of the "Southern Strategy".
 
Last edited:
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.[1]

Alexander Stephens - March 21, 1861
Vice president of the confederacy
The "Conerstone Address"

Anyone who is still trying to argue that the American Civil War was "not about slavery" is historically challenged.

What he said was the truth.All you gotta do is look around and see that.
 
As I said earlier, the explosion in the demand for cotton led to an explosion of slave labor in the South. Slavery was not going away.

The South seceded because it could see the North gaining the upper hand in the Congress. And the North was hell bent on enforcing the Constitutional ban on the slave trade that was supposed to end in 1808.

The South could feel their electoral power waning, ironically because slaves were only counted as 3/5 of a person. For the South, this meant they could either allow slavery to be eventually abolished, or leave the Union in order to preserve the institution of slavery.

They chose the latter. Their declarations of secession make this crystal clear.

In light of this choice, the idea they could have been bought out is laughable.

And it is laughable that anyone thinks this was about anything other than the institution of slavery.
 
Last edited:
FORCING televison, radio, print, that run political advertisements for federal elections to run FREE ads for persons who get so many names on a petition (again, set the threshold where you like) to get the money out of elections or at least get the need for the money out of elections. .


What else is your fantasy government going to "force" private businesses to do after they've shredded the Constitution? What are they going to "force" you personally to do?


You're looking for another country entirely, not The United States of America.

Well, as for Television and Radio, the airwaves are public and broadcasters must provide (or at least used to have to) community affairs programming. This is why you hear the Emergency Management System tests on every radio/TV station at some point every month. They don't do that for free; they are forced to do that. So there is precedent. Asking them to donate some of the airwaves they get for free not every year but for a few weeks every two years is not too much to ask.

Newspapers--yeah you got me on that. If Mitt Romney wanted to take out a gazillion dollars worth of newspaper ads, we shouldn't force them to run a gazillion dollars of Obama ads.

The point is that to right the ship, we need to get special interests out of the equation as much as we can. This is a concrete step toward doing just so.

Can we assume that you're entirely giddy about how much these guys have to make to just run for office? Can we also assume that you think all of that money has no bearing on how they decide to govern, legislate, attack, lead, etc..?

Shredding the Constitution? Oh Christ. Shaking the 200+ year old business plan up a bit to coincide with 2013 realities? Yup.
 
"the Ordinance grounds not only an assertion of the right to annul the laws of which it complains, but to enforce it by a threat of seceding from the Union if any attempt is made to execute them.
This right to secede is deduced from the nature of the Constitution, which they say is a compact between sovereign States, who have preserved their whole sovereignty, and therefore are subject to no superior: that because they made the compact, they can break it, when, in their opinion, it has been departed from by the other states. Fallacious as this course of reasoning is, it enlists State pride, and finds advocates in the honest prejudices of those who have not studied the nature of our Government sufficiently to see the radical error on which it rests."
-- Andrew Jackson; from Proclamation 43 (December 10, 1832)
 
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.[1]

Alexander Stephens - March 21, 1861
Vice president of the confederacy
The "Conerstone Address"

Anyone who is still trying to argue that the American Civil War was "not about slavery" is historically challenged.

What he said was the truth.All you gotta do is look around and see that.

Bripat, Unkotore....

Do you agree with this piece of shit?
 
The present administration tells other nations that they should not attack its citizens if they want to separate from their parent nation, so it should be put the the test here in the United States. Texas can start it off. They must first pay back all federal monies and reimburse the federal government for any interstate highways contructed, as they were funded by the federal government.

Says who? the federal government doesn't have a dime that it didn't get from the citizens of the 50 states, so why do any of the states owe the federal government a dime?

New currency must be made and border check points set up. Texas passports must be made for citizens wanting to travel outside the new nation.

That goes without saying. I think any sensible person would be ecstatic to be free of the federal reserve funny money.

Any electrical services coming from outside Texas must be dismantled.

Don't be an idiot. The federal government doesn't own power lines. Power companies can make whatever arrangements they want.

Anyway, there will be a lot to do. But once free of the United States, Texas can have its own original flag (perhaps the stars and bars).

Was this post supposed to have a point of some kind?
 
Alexander Stephens - March 21, 1861
Vice president of the confederacy
The "Conerstone Address"

Anyone who is still trying to argue that the American Civil War was "not about slavery" is historically challenged.

What he said was the truth.All you gotta do is look around and see that.

Bripat, Unkotore....

Do you agree with this piece of shit?
I doubt they do but I really don't care what anyone thinks of me. Go ahead move to Detroit or Philly or some other lovely urban area predominately occupied by blacks and see how much ya like it...I have been there done that...never again..I happy to enjoy civilized society.
 
The present administration tells other nations that they should not attack its citizens if they want to separate from their parent nation, so it should be put the the test here in the United States. Texas can start it off. They must first pay back all federal monies and reimburse the federal government for any interstate highways contructed, as they were funded by the federal government.

Says who? the federal government doesn't have a dime that it didn't get from the citizens of the 50 states, so why do any of the states owe the federal government a dime?

New currency must be made and border check points set up. Texas passports must be made for citizens wanting to travel outside the new nation.

That goes without saying. I think any sensible person would be ecstatic to be free of the federal reserve funny money.

Any electrical services coming from outside Texas must be dismantled.

Don't be an idiot. The federal government doesn't own power lines. Power companies can make whatever arrangements they want.

Anyway, there will be a lot to do. But once free of the United States, Texas can have its own original flag (perhaps the stars and bars).

Was this post supposed to have a point of some kind?

He's trying to make the point that if Texas wanted to secede then it would then be subject to treatment as a foreign country. What he doesn't realize is that Texas has it's own power grid anyway so it would be just fine. What he also doesn't realize is that Texas has the 14th largest economy on the face of the earth. Not that I would want Texas to secede, this idea that somehow Texas couldn't make it while not being apart of the U.S. is upsurd. Aside from that, Texas could then coin it's own currency and would likely immediately end up being more valuable than the U.S. Dollar...
 
The present administration tells other nations that they should not attack its citizens if they want to separate from their parent nation, so it should be put the the test here in the United States. Texas can start it off. They must first pay back all federal monies and reimburse the federal government for any interstate highways contructed, as they were funded by the federal government.

Says who? the federal government doesn't have a dime that it didn't get from the citizens of the 50 states, so why do any of the states owe the federal government a dime?



That goes without saying. I think any sensible person would be ecstatic to be free of the federal reserve funny money.



Don't be an idiot. The federal government doesn't own power lines. Power companies can make whatever arrangements they want.

Anyway, there will be a lot to do. But once free of the United States, Texas can have its own original flag (perhaps the stars and bars).

Was this post supposed to have a point of some kind?

He's trying to make the point that if Texas wanted to secede then it would then be subject to treatment as a foreign country. What he doesn't realize is that Texas has it's own power grid anyway so it would be just fine. What he also doesn't realize is that Texas has the 14th largest economy on the face of the earth. Not that I would want Texas to secede, this idea that somehow Texas couldn't make it while not being apart of the U.S. is upsurd. Aside from that, Texas could then coin it's own currency and would likely immediately end up being more valuable than the U.S. Dollar...

The libturds always think they're entitled to impose all manner of onerous conditions on people who only want their freedom. It just goes to show how fundamentally totalitarian they are. Controlling people is what they're all about. They think they own us.
 
Legally and Constitutionally a State may not leave the Union Unilaterally. You have been shown the articles and clauses in the Constitution that forbid it. A State may only leave if Congress agrees or it successfully fights off the US Government.

Not only does the Constitution require Congressional action but the Supreme Court agrees. And yes article III clearly grants to the Supreme Court the authority and power to rule on matters between the States and the federal Government. In fact in such matters the Supreme Court has primary authority as stated in article III of the US Constitution.

Article III section 2

The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

Article III | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

As it states "to controversies to which the United States shall be a party"

also ' The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States,..."

Further "Between a State and citizens of another State, --- between citizens of different States.."
 
Legally and Constitutionally a State may not leave the Union Unilaterally. You have been shown the articles and clauses in the Constitution that forbid it. A State may only leave if Congress agrees or it successfully fights off the US Government.

Not only does the Constitution require Congressional action but the Supreme Court agrees. And yes article III clearly grants to the Supreme Court the authority and power to rule on matters between the States and the federal Government. In fact in such matters the Supreme Court has primary authority as stated in article III of the US Constitution.

Article III section 2

The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

Article III | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

As it states "to controversies to which the United States shall be a party"

also ' The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States,..."

Further "Between a State and citizens of another State, --- between citizens of different States.."

28215171.jpg
 
Legally and Constitutionally a State may not leave the Union Unilaterally. You have been shown the articles and clauses in the Constitution that forbid it. A State may only leave if Congress agrees or it successfully fights off the US Government.

Not only does the Constitution require Congressional action but the Supreme Court agrees. And yes article III clearly grants to the Supreme Court the authority and power to rule on matters between the States and the federal Government. In fact in such matters the Supreme Court has primary authority as stated in article III of the US Constitution.

Article III section 2

The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

Article III | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

As it states "to controversies to which the United States shall be a party"

also ' The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States,..."

Further "Between a State and citizens of another State, --- between citizens of different States.."

28215171.jpg

So not surprised you ignore facts that fit you myopic view
 
Legally and Constitutionally a State may not leave the Union Unilaterally. You have been shown the articles and clauses in the Constitution that forbid it. A State may only leave if Congress agrees or it successfully fights off the US Government.

Not only does the Constitution require Congressional action but the Supreme Court agrees. And yes article III clearly grants to the Supreme Court the authority and power to rule on matters between the States and the federal Government. In fact in such matters the Supreme Court has primary authority as stated in article III of the US Constitution.

Article III section 2



Article III | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

As it states "to controversies to which the United States shall be a party"

also ' The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States,..."

Further "Between a State and citizens of another State, --- between citizens of different States.."

28215171.jpg

So not surprised you ignore facts that fit you myopic view

The melting point of lead is 621.5°. That's also a fact. It has just as much relevance to this discussion as the "facts" mentioned above.
 

So not surprised you ignore facts that fit you myopic view

The melting point of lead is 621.5°. That's also a fact. It has just as much relevance to this discussion as the "facts" mentioned above.

The relevant powers are quoted. You haven't a leg to stand on. The Supreme Court was given the power to run all trials involving the United States. In 1869 they ruled that a State may not unilaterally leave the Union. They had the authority and the power granted them by the Constitution to render such a verdict. The action was I believe Texas vs the US. Care to explain how that does not meet the powers and authority granted the Court by said Constitution?

As for the right before that decision, the Supremacy clause coupled with other powers granted the Congress and the federal Government clearly indicate that in order for a State to withdraw from the Union Congress must agree.
 
So not surprised you ignore facts that fit you myopic view

The melting point of lead is 621.5°. That's also a fact. It has just as much relevance to this discussion as the "facts" mentioned above.

The relevant powers are quoted. You haven't a leg to stand on. The Supreme Court was given the power to run all trials involving the United States. In 1869 they ruled that a State may not unilaterally leave the Union. They had the authority and the power granted them by the Constitution to render such a verdict. The action was I believe Texas vs the US. Care to explain how that does not meet the powers and authority granted the Court by said Constitution?

As for the right before that decision, the Supremacy clause coupled with other powers granted the Congress and the federal Government clearly indicate that in order for a State to withdraw from the Union Congress must agree.

So post hoc a bunch of Lincoln appointed hacks ruled that Lincoln didn't violate the Constitution means secession was illegal in 1861, and I don't have a leg to stand on?

Rottenecards_35359370_hj2stvb494.png
 
The melting point of lead is 621.5°. That's also a fact. It has just as much relevance to this discussion as the "facts" mentioned above.

The relevant powers are quoted. You haven't a leg to stand on. The Supreme Court was given the power to run all trials involving the United States. In 1869 they ruled that a State may not unilaterally leave the Union. They had the authority and the power granted them by the Constitution to render such a verdict. The action was I believe Texas vs the US. Care to explain how that does not meet the powers and authority granted the Court by said Constitution?

As for the right before that decision, the Supremacy clause coupled with other powers granted the Congress and the federal Government clearly indicate that in order for a State to withdraw from the Union Congress must agree.

So post hoc a bunch of Lincoln appointed hacks ruled that Lincoln didn't violate the Constitution means secession was illegal in 1861, and I don't have a leg to stand on?

Rottenecards_35359370_hj2stvb494.png

The Court is the final authority unless Congress passes legislation changing it. You claimed it did not have the authority and that the Constitution does not grant it that authority or power. You are wrong.

When a State joins the United States it falls under the Constitution. The supremacy clause means that what ever the federal Government passes as laws or edicts are superior to any State action UNLESS taken to Court and overturned ultimately by the Supreme Court.

When a State unilaterally tries to remove itself from the US it violates numerous conditions, as I noted previously , of the Constitution. The recourse is armed rebellion or the Courts. The South failed in both arenas.
 

Forum List

Back
Top