Bernie Sanders: We Will Raise Taxes On Anyone Making Over $29,000 To Fund Government Health Care

[RealDave]

In 2008 Democrats said they fixed healthcare.

How’d that work out here 11 years later?

Good enough that you assfuck Republicans can't come up with anything better.

BTW lying piece of shit, Democrats said it needed improvements. Like any major piece of legislation.

Then why didn't they make the improvements before implementing the plan?

So, you are so naive you think major legislation never needs to be tweaked.

All you have to do is like at Medicate Part D.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

What we have is a system where government only pays about 2/3 of the bill for their patents, and then providers have to make that up through private insurance. Then private insurance has to increase their rates.

This is not the end of the world for perhaps a doctors visit or maybe some therapy, but it starts becoming a major loss with $300,000 surgeries and recovery time in a hospital bed.

Malpractice is so high in cost that your family doctor is hardly a doctor at all. Today they are more like a referral service. If you have a sore throat, you go to the ear, nose and throat specialist. If your arm hurts, you get shipped to an orthopedic specialist.

After that, it's a half-dozen tests or so of what's known in the US as Defensive Medicine. The doctor doesn't need any of these tests for your diagnosis. They need the test results in case you hire an ambulance chaser to try and make money off of the ordeal.

Ronald Reagan said it the best: Government is not a solution to our problems, government is the problem.

The only right approach is to find a way to reduce healthcare costs, and then figure out how we are going to pay for it. Why is it nobody ever addressed that pragmatic approach? Because that would require getting government out of the healthcare business--not putting more in.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In 2008 Democrats said they fixed healthcare.

How’d that work out here 11 years later?

Good enough that you assfuck Republicans can't come up with anything better.

BTW lying piece of shit, Democrats said it needed improvements. Like any major piece of legislation.

Then why didn't they make the improvements before implementing the plan?

So, you are so naive you think major legislation never needs to be tweaked.

All you have to do is like at Medicate Part D.

The problem is they knew it was a failure before it started. Their intent was to make it more inviting for employers to drop coverage for their employees.

The plan was designed to create more government dependents. The more government dependents, the more likely Democrat voters. What a success too. The Obama White House announced they created 20 million more government dependents with Commie Care. They created another 20 million more on food stamps. Together with those two programs alone, by their own proud admission, they created 40 million more new government dependents. You think that was an accident?

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

What we have is a system where government only pays about 2/3 of the bill for their patents, and then providers have to make that up through private insurance. Then private insurance has to increase their rates.

This is not the end of the world for perhaps a doctors visit or maybe some therapy, but it starts becoming a major loss with $300,000 surgeries and recovery time in a hospital bed.

Malpractice is so high in cost that your family doctor is hardly a doctor at all. Today they are more like a referral service. If you have a sore throat, you go to the ear, nose and throat specialist. If your arm hurts, you get shipped to an orthopedic specialist.

After that, it's a half-dozen tests or so of what's known in the US as Defensive Medicine. The doctor doesn't need any of these tests for your diagnosis. They need the test results in case you hire an ambulance chaser to try and make money off of the ordeal.

Ronald Reagan said it the best: Government is not a solution to our problems, government is the problem.

The only right approach is to find a way to reduce healthcare costs, and then figure out how we are going to pay for it. Why is it nobody ever addressed that pragmatic approach? Because that would require getting government out of the healthcare business--not putting more in.

LOL, Every country with more government spending , and government intervention actually spend far less than the USA does on healthcare.

But, but, but, it must be the Governments fault, sure.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In 2008 Democrats said they fixed healthcare.

How’d that work out here 11 years later?

Good enough that you assfuck Republicans can't come up with anything better.

BTW lying piece of shit, Democrats said it needed improvements. Like any major piece of legislation.

Then why didn't they make the improvements before implementing the plan?

No one knew what improvements were needed until the plan was implemented. By then, republicans were fighting to repeal the plan and and blocking democrats attempts to fix it.

Obamacare was not really a failure. It just did not delivery everything promised. It eliminated prexisting conditions so insurance companies had to provide insurance regardless of serious illnesses. It eliminated junk insurance that allow insurance companies to sell plans that paid for low cost common medical care but failed to provide healthcare for really serious problems. It eliminated long waiting periods, up to two years of employment in some cases, and many other rather deceptive practices in the insurance industry. It required insurance companies to provide standardize benefits, making insurance easy to understand and compare. It added a lot of preventive care and provided the largest increase ever in mental health and substance abuse coverage, which was long overdue. And lastly, it increased the number insured.

It's primary failure was high cost to the insured. Insurance companies were promised subsides to keep prices low and a mandatory requirement for insurance designed increase number of customers. Obama was not able to increase subsidies significantly without congress support and republicans blocked any attempt to do so. Many exemptions were granted to the mandatory requirement and finally republicans repealed it. The result was many insurance companies exited the market in areas of the country where competition was badly needed. Needless to say premiums went up making the insurance even less affordable.

If congress had increased subsidies and maintained a mandate that everyone have insurance, rates would have been much lower and the cost to government far less than Medicare for All.

It's ironic that republican work to destroy Obamacare, a healthcare system far less socialist that most healthcare plans in the world, has created a large demand for Medicare for All, a plan far more socialist and a far bigger hit on government revenue.

Sounds to me like you have no idea what you're talking about Flopper But take it from one of the millions of Americans who lost their employer plan, and forced to deal with Commie Care.

Let me ask: What do you call a plan that requires 40% of your net take home pay, has a $7,500 deductible, a $7,500 out of pocket, no prescription, no dental, and a $50.00 doctor copay? Would you call that a garbage plan? Well guess what? That's what Commie Care gave me as an option to continue my treatment for my doctor and Clinic.

Oh sure, I could get a better plan, for half my take home pay, 60% of my take home pay, but who can live on just half their income or less? Now I've had serious preexisting conditions most of my adult life. Not once have I ever had a problem getting insurance through my employer. It wasn't even a question. When Commie Care started, I lost coverage for the first time in my life of 53 years.

Commie Care didn't do anything that you described. The only stipulation was they had to provide birth control. Like what 52 year old lady or any age male needs that? Insurance companies started dropping out within the first year Commie Care started. It had nothing to do with the Republicans.

Insurance companies try to keep rates low as possible by taking your premium money, investing it, and using the profits to help offset some of the claims. Commie Care made it mandatory that insurance companies use at least 80% of their collected premiums on claims alone. That means they had little or nothing to invest, and Fd up their entire business model. So for course rates went up. They could no longer offset claims with investments.

Fewer Americans Have Private Health Insurance Now Than in 2007

Small Businesses Are Dropping Health Coverage; Large Employers Hold Steady

Fourth Georgia hospital closes due to Obamacare payment cuts

WEBER: Obamacare cuts home healthcare for millions of seniors

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

What we have is a system where government only pays about 2/3 of the bill for their patents, and then providers have to make that up through private insurance. Then private insurance has to increase their rates.

This is not the end of the world for perhaps a doctors visit or maybe some therapy, but it starts becoming a major loss with $300,000 surgeries and recovery time in a hospital bed.

Malpractice is so high in cost that your family doctor is hardly a doctor at all. Today they are more like a referral service. If you have a sore throat, you go to the ear, nose and throat specialist. If your arm hurts, you get shipped to an orthopedic specialist.

After that, it's a half-dozen tests or so of what's known in the US as Defensive Medicine. The doctor doesn't need any of these tests for your diagnosis. They need the test results in case you hire an ambulance chaser to try and make money off of the ordeal.

Ronald Reagan said it the best: Government is not a solution to our problems, government is the problem.

The only right approach is to find a way to reduce healthcare costs, and then figure out how we are going to pay for it. Why is it nobody ever addressed that pragmatic approach? Because that would require getting government out of the healthcare business--not putting more in.

LOL, Every country with more government spending , and government intervention actually spend far less than the USA does on healthcare.

But, but, but, it must be the Governments fault, sure.

I was in the business for about ten years. What I saw was frightening . I wrote to my cousin--a research doctor about what was going on. My very liberal cousin wrote back and said, you haven't seen anything yet.

After I changed lines of work, I found out Medicare (at the time) hired Prudential insurance to handle their claims because they were so inept to do so. Too much theft and abuse they couldn't keep up with. Private insurance companies have departments that investigate and prosecute fraud. We don't have that when it comes to government money.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

To refresh your memory, ...

My memory's fine, douchebag. Here is the post you responded to:

And while these idiots drum their lips, Trump works on something meaningful:

IT’S NOT THE CRIME, IT’S THE COVERUP: Hospitals Sue Trump to Keep Negotiated Prices Secret.

“The nation’s hospital groups sued the Trump administration on Wednesday over a new federal rule that would require them to disclose the discounted prices they give insurers for all sorts of procedures.”​

Trump could always just ban price discrimination, and require them to charge the same price to all comers. I mean, if they’re so against disclosure. Meanwhile, the Trump Administration hits the right note:

“Hospitals should be ashamed that they aren’t willing to provide American patients the cost of a service before they purchase it.”​

Great. More big government regulation. Just what we need.

And you responded with bunch of stuff about Democrats. I guess you're just trying to avoid that fact that Trump is proposing big government regulation. He's no limited-government conservative.

What big government regulation do you speak of???

It's in the post you quoted.

That's what you call big government regulation?

 

[dblack]

To refresh your memory, ...

My memory's fine, douchebag. Here is the post you responded to:

And while these idiots drum their lips, Trump works on something meaningful:

IT’S NOT THE CRIME, IT’S THE COVERUP: Hospitals Sue Trump to Keep Negotiated Prices Secret.

“The nation’s hospital groups sued the Trump administration on Wednesday over a new federal rule that would require them to disclose the discounted prices they give insurers for all sorts of procedures.”​

Trump could always just ban price discrimination, and require them to charge the same price to all comers. I mean, if they’re so against disclosure. Meanwhile, the Trump Administration hits the right note:

“Hospitals should be ashamed that they aren’t willing to provide American patients the cost of a service before they purchase it.”​

Great. More big government regulation. Just what we need.

And you responded with bunch of stuff about Democrats. I guess you're just trying to avoid that fact that Trump is proposing big government regulation. He's no limited-government conservative.

What big government regulation do you speak of???

It's in the post you quoted.

That's what you call big government regulation?

Yes. I'm not surprised that you don't see it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

To refresh your memory, ...

My memory's fine, douchebag. Here is the post you responded to:

Great. More big government regulation. Just what we need.

And you responded with bunch of stuff about Democrats. I guess you're just trying to avoid that fact that Trump is proposing big government regulation. He's no limited-government conservative.

What big government regulation do you speak of???

It's in the post you quoted.

That's what you call big government regulation?

Yes. I'm not surprised that you don't see it.

No, I don't. Nobody should be keeping their prices hidden like that. How would you like to go to Amazon and buy items with no prices on it? You wouldn't know what the price is until you get your credit card bill. Or you go to a gas station, and the pumps have no price per gallon? Would you want to pay more for any item you buy because somebody else is buying it for less?

 

[dblack]

My memory's fine, douchebag. Here is the post you responded to:
And you responded with bunch of stuff about Democrats. I guess you're just trying to avoid that fact that Trump is proposing big government regulation. He's no limited-government conservative.

What big government regulation do you speak of???

It's in the post you quoted.

That's what you call big government regulation?

Yes. I'm not surprised that you don't see it.

No, I don't.

I understand. You've never been a libertarian or a limited-government conservative.

Nobody should be keeping their prices hidden like that. How would you like to go to Amazon and buy items with no prices on it? You wouldn't know what the price is until you get your credit card bill. Or you go to a gas station, and the pumps have no price per gallon? Would you want to pay more for any item you buy because somebody else is buying it for less?

Right. And, in a sane market, consumers wouldn't deal with companies on these terms. They wouldn't buy something without knowing the price. But the health care market isn't sane, and it's BECAUSE of ill-conceived regulations like this one. Piling on with more will only make the problem worse.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What big government regulation do you speak of???

It's in the post you quoted.

That's what you call big government regulation?

Yes. I'm not surprised that you don't see it.

No, I don't.

I understand. You've never been a libertarian or a limited-government conservative.

Nobody should be keeping their prices hidden like that. How would you like to go to Amazon and buy items with no prices on it? You wouldn't know what the price is until you get your credit card bill. Or you go to a gas station, and the pumps have no price per gallon? Would you want to pay more for any item you buy because somebody else is buying it for less?

Right. And, in a sane market, consumers wouldn't deal with companies on these terms. They wouldn't buy something without knowing the price. But the health care market isn't sane, and it's BECAUSE of ill-conceived regulations like this one. Piling on with more will only make the problem worse.

It's not a regulation that costs them a dime. It's a regulation of transparency. What if everyplace you purchased goods from didn't disclose their prices, but you had no choice but to purchase them anyway?

 

[dblack]

What if everyplace you purchased goods from didn't disclose their prices, but you had no choice but to purchase them anyway?

Yes, yes. "What if every baker in town refused to serve gays?" It's the same stupid (non-real) scenario. In a sane market, no company could get away with what you describe. The fact that companies can get away with that in the health care market is an indication of what is really wrong.

Again, the problem isn't that health care prices aren't transparent. The problem is that there is no demand for them to be transparent. No one gives a shit because no one is paying for their own health care.

 

[flack]

Put your healthcare in the hands of government bueracrats that don't give a shit about you, whose bosses are corrupt politicians elected by special interest groups. It will also cause your taxes to sky rocket. What could possible go wrong?

Another ignorant fucking Trumpette.

The government is the payer,. YOU choose where to get your care from PRIVATE doctors in PRIVATE institutions.

Still making the doctors employees of the state. In other words slaves. You want to enslave an entire profession so you can get something for free.

DOCTORS WOULD NOT BE EMPLOYEES OF THE STATE.

Jesus Christ, learn what it is before making an ass out of yourself complaining.

semantics Dave semantics.

 

[Zorro!]

My memory's fine, douchebag. Here is the post you responded to:
And you responded with bunch of stuff about Democrats. I guess you're just trying to avoid that fact that Trump is proposing big government regulation. He's no limited-government conservative.

What big government regulation do you speak of???

It's in the post you quoted.

That's what you call big government regulation?

Yes. I'm not surprised that you don't see it.

No, I don't. Nobody should be keeping their prices hidden like that. How would you like to go to Amazon and buy items with no prices on it? You wouldn't know what the price is until you get your credit card bill. Or you go to a gas station, and the pumps have no price per gallon? Would you want to pay more for any item you buy because somebody else is buying it for less?

Yes. We support sensible regulation, published pricing is sensible regulation.

 

[flack]

Put your healthcare in the hands of government bueracrats that don't give a shit about you, whose bosses are corrupt politicians elected by special interest groups. It will also cause your taxes to sky rocket. What could possible go wrong?

Another ignorant fucking Trumpette.

The government is the payer,. YOU choose where to get your care from PRIVATE doctors in PRIVATE institutions.

Still making the doctors employees of the state. In other words slaves. You want to enslave an entire profession so you can get something for free.

DOCTORS WOULD NOT BE EMPLOYEES OF THE STATE.

Jesus Christ, learn what it is before making an ass out of yourself complaining.

"The main Medicare for all legislation would let either the federal government or regional directors set reimbursement rates and create annual budgets based on the Medicare system."

They will work for the government.

Medicare payments only covered 87% of costs in 2016, the most recent data available from the American Hospital Association. But private insurers paid nearly 145% of their policyholders' hospital expenses.
"Hospitals are already paid far less than the cost of caring for Medicare patients, and more patients with Medicare would strain hospitals even more, and could threaten hospitals' survival," wrote Rick Pollack, chief executive of the association, in a blog post last month.
Private insurance payments provide the funding hospitals need to offer the care that Americans expect, said Chip Kahn, chief executive of the Federation of American Hospitals, which represents for-profit institutions.

 

[flack]

What if everyplace you purchased goods from didn't disclose their prices, but you had no choice but to purchase them anyway?

Yes, yes. "What if every baker in town refused to serve gays?" It's the same stupid (non-real) scenario. In a sane market, no company could get away with what you describe. The fact that companies can get away with that in the health care market is an indication of what is really wrong.

Again, the problem isn't that health care prices aren't transparent. The problem is that there is no demand for them to be transparent. No one gives a shit because no one is paying for their own health care.

exactly

 

[dblack]

What big government regulation do you speak of???

It's in the post you quoted.

That's what you call big government regulation?

Yes. I'm not surprised that you don't see it.

No, I don't. Nobody should be keeping their prices hidden like that. How would you like to go to Amazon and buy items with no prices on it? You wouldn't know what the price is until you get your credit card bill. Or you go to a gas station, and the pumps have no price per gallon? Would you want to pay more for any item you buy because somebody else is buying it for less?

Yes. We support sensible regulation, published pricing is sensible regulation.

Of course. "It's different when we do it."

 

[RealDave]

Put your healthcare in the hands of government bueracrats that don't give a shit about you, whose bosses are corrupt politicians elected by special interest groups. It will also cause your taxes to sky rocket. What could possible go wrong?

Another ignorant fucking Trumpette.

The government is the payer,. YOU choose where to get your care from PRIVATE doctors in PRIVATE institutions.

Still making the doctors employees of the state. In other words slaves. You want to enslave an entire profession so you can get something for free.

DOCTORS WOULD NOT BE EMPLOYEES OF THE STATE.

Jesus Christ, learn what it is before making an ass out of yourself complaining.

"The main Medicare for all legislation would let either the federal government or regional directors set reimbursement rates and create annual budgets based on the Medicare system."

They will work for the government.

Medicare payments only covered 87% of costs in 2016, the most recent data available from the American Hospital Association. But private insurers paid nearly 145% of their policyholders' hospital expenses.
"Hospitals are already paid far less than the cost of caring for Medicare patients, and more patients with Medicare would strain hospitals even more, and could threaten hospitals' survival," wrote Rick Pollack, chief executive of the association, in a blog post last month.
Private insurance payments provide the funding hospitals need to offer the care that Americans expect, said Chip Kahn, chief executive of the Federation of American Hospitals, which represents for-profit institutions.

So they work for insurance companies now?

 

[flack]

Put your healthcare in the hands of government bueracrats that don't give a shit about you, whose bosses are corrupt politicians elected by special interest groups. It will also cause your taxes to sky rocket. What could possible go wrong?

Another ignorant fucking Trumpette.

The government is the payer,. YOU choose where to get your care from PRIVATE doctors in PRIVATE institutions.

Still making the doctors employees of the state. In other words slaves. You want to enslave an entire profession so you can get something for free.

DOCTORS WOULD NOT BE EMPLOYEES OF THE STATE.

Jesus Christ, learn what it is before making an ass out of yourself complaining.

"The main Medicare for all legislation would let either the federal government or regional directors set reimbursement rates and create annual budgets based on the Medicare system."

They will work for the government.

Medicare payments only covered 87% of costs in 2016, the most recent data available from the American Hospital Association. But private insurers paid nearly 145% of their policyholders' hospital expenses.
"Hospitals are already paid far less than the cost of caring for Medicare patients, and more patients with Medicare would strain hospitals even more, and could threaten hospitals' survival," wrote Rick Pollack, chief executive of the association, in a blog post last month.
Private insurance payments provide the funding hospitals need to offer the care that Americans expect, said Chip Kahn, chief executive of the Federation of American Hospitals, which represents for-profit institutions.

So they work for insurance companies now?

In a way yes. But you can get around that by paying cash.

 

[Zorro!]