Bernie Sanders: We Will Raise Taxes On Anyone Making Over $29,000 To Fund Government Health Care

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

Everybody wants to immigrate to Germany. Said no one ever.

Nice deflection from the fact that the USA spends the most by far in the World in healthcare when including both out of pocket + government spending on healthcare.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

There's many immigrants in Germany too, such as Turks, Syrians, Russians, Poles, Albanians, Morrocans, Italians, Afghanis, Gypsies, Iraqis, Chechens, Serbs, and even Jews etc.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

You're right, it would be cheaper with less equipment, fewer beds, fewer new drugs and long waits for care.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In 2008 Democrats said they fixed healthcare.

How’d that work out here 11 years later?

Good enough that you assfuck Republicans can't come up with anything better.

BTW lying piece of shit, Democrats said it needed improvements. Like any major piece of legislation.

Then why didn't they make the improvements before implementing the plan?

No one knew what improvements were needed until the plan was implemented. By then, republicans were fighting to repeal the plan and and blocking democrats attempts to fix it.

Obamacare was not really a failure. It just did not delivery everything promised. It eliminated prexisting conditions so insurance companies had to provide insurance regardless of serious illnesses. It eliminated junk insurance that allow insurance companies to sell plans that paid for low cost common medical care but failed to provide healthcare for really serious problems. It eliminated long waiting periods, up to two years of employment in some cases, and many other rather deceptive practices in the insurance industry. It required insurance companies to provide standardize benefits, making insurance easy to understand and compare. It added a lot of preventive care and provided the largest increase ever in mental health and substance abuse coverage, which was long overdue. And lastly, it increased the number insured.

It's primary failure was high cost to the insured. Insurance companies were promised subsides to keep prices low and a mandatory requirement for insurance designed increase number of customers. Obama was not able to increase subsidies significantly without congress support and republicans blocked any attempt to do so. Many exemptions were granted to the mandatory requirement and finally republicans repealed it. The result was many insurance companies exited the market in areas of the country where competition was badly needed. Needless to say premiums went up making the insurance even less affordable.

If congress had increased subsidies and maintained a mandate that everyone have insurance, rates would have been much lower and the cost to government far less than Medicare for All.

It's ironic that republican work to destroy Obamacare, a healthcare system far less socialist that most healthcare plans in the world, has created a large demand for Medicare for All, a plan far more socialist and a far bigger hit on government revenue.

Obamacare was an epic failure that gutted our healthcare system and caused the huge spike in costs we see today.
But I hope Democrats run on it.

The ACA lowered the rate of premium increases.

I hope you Republicans run on how you couldn't come up with something better.

The ACA lowered the rate of premium increases.

And what happened to deductibles?

 

[Zorro!]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

Everybody wants to immigrate to Germany. Said no one ever.

Nice deflection from the fact that the USA spends the most by far in the World in healthcare when including both out of pocket + government spending on healthcare.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

There's many immigrants in Germany too, such as Turks, Syrians, Russians, Poles, Albanians, Morrocans, Italians, Afghanis, Gypsies, Iraqis, Chechens, Serbs, and even Jews etc.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

You're right, it would be cheaper with less equipment, fewer beds, fewer new drugs and long waits for care.

As long as I can opt out without penalty, and it's not built on government money, I don't give a damn what they do.

 

[dblack]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

Everybody wants to immigrate to Germany. Said no one ever.

Nice deflection from the fact that the USA spends the most by far in the World in healthcare when including both out of pocket + government spending on healthcare.

So what? We spend the most on pretty much everything else as well. Because we have more to spend. If people want to blow their wad trying to squeeze extra six months out of life, why is it any of your business?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What if everyplace you purchased goods from didn't disclose their prices, but you had no choice but to purchase them anyway?

Yes, yes. "What if every baker in town refused to serve gays?" It's the same stupid (non-real) scenario. In a sane market, no company could get away with what you describe. The fact that companies can get away with that in the health care market is an indication of what is really wrong.

Again, the problem isn't that health care prices aren't transparent. The problem is that there is no demand for them to be transparent. No one gives a shit because no one is paying for their own health care.

While I can't speak for Trump, the idea was to make medical care more transparent.

I went through the same thing when my insulin kept getting more and more expensive. It was to the point of almost unaffordable. Then I discovered they were selling it to Walmart dirt cheap and increasing the price to every other pharmacy.

When I think of the hundreds, if not thousands I needlessly spent going to those other pharmacies because the manufacturer wouldn't give me an honest answer as to why it was getting more expensive, should have allowed to sue the company. They got away with it and still are.

So I do expect government to regulate price control because it's not something the rest of us can't do. Big government is when they do things we can do, and I didn't have the ability to force a company to be honest instead of ripping me off.

 

[dblack]

What if everyplace you purchased goods from didn't disclose their prices, but you had no choice but to purchase them anyway?

Yes, yes. "What if every baker in town refused to serve gays?" It's the same stupid (non-real) scenario. In a sane market, no company could get away with what you describe. The fact that companies can get away with that in the health care market is an indication of what is really wrong.

Again, the problem isn't that health care prices aren't transparent. The problem is that there is no demand for them to be transparent. No one gives a shit because no one is paying for their own health care.

While I can't speak for Trump, the idea was to make medical care more transparent.

I went through the same thing when my insulin kept getting more and more expensive. It was to the point of almost unaffordable. Then I discovered they were selling it to Walmart dirt cheap and increasing the price to every other pharmacy.

When I think of the hundreds, if not thousands I needlessly spent going to those other pharmacies because the manufacturer wouldn't give me an honest answer as to why it was getting more expensive, should have allowed to sue the company. They got away with it and still are.

So I do expect government to regulate price control because it's not something the rest of us can't do. Big government is when they do things we can do, and I didn't have the ability to force a company to be honest instead of ripping me off.

"It's different when we do it."

Sorry, the excuses don't cut it.

 

[RealDave]

Good enough that you assfuck Republicans can't come up with anything better.

BTW lying piece of shit, Democrats said it needed improvements. Like any major piece of legislation.

Then why didn't they make the improvements before implementing the plan?

No one knew what improvements were needed until the plan was implemented. By then, republicans were fighting to repeal the plan and and blocking democrats attempts to fix it.

Obamacare was not really a failure. It just did not delivery everything promised. It eliminated prexisting conditions so insurance companies had to provide insurance regardless of serious illnesses. It eliminated junk insurance that allow insurance companies to sell plans that paid for low cost common medical care but failed to provide healthcare for really serious problems. It eliminated long waiting periods, up to two years of employment in some cases, and many other rather deceptive practices in the insurance industry. It required insurance companies to provide standardize benefits, making insurance easy to understand and compare. It added a lot of preventive care and provided the largest increase ever in mental health and substance abuse coverage, which was long overdue. And lastly, it increased the number insured.

It's primary failure was high cost to the insured. Insurance companies were promised subsides to keep prices low and a mandatory requirement for insurance designed increase number of customers. Obama was not able to increase subsidies significantly without congress support and republicans blocked any attempt to do so. Many exemptions were granted to the mandatory requirement and finally republicans repealed it. The result was many insurance companies exited the market in areas of the country where competition was badly needed. Needless to say premiums went up making the insurance even less affordable.

If congress had increased subsidies and maintained a mandate that everyone have insurance, rates would have been much lower and the cost to government far less than Medicare for All.

It's ironic that republican work to destroy Obamacare, a healthcare system far less socialist that most healthcare plans in the world, has created a large demand for Medicare for All, a plan far more socialist and a far bigger hit on government revenue.

Obamacare was an epic failure that gutted our healthcare system and caused the huge spike in costs we see today.
But I hope Democrats run on it.

The ACA lowered the rate of premium increases.

I hope you Republicans run on how you couldn't come up with something better.

The ACA lowered the rate of premium increases.

And what happened to deductibles?

Well, if you got off your fat ass & looked at the exchanges, you would see a wide range of deductibles.

I could have chose a low premium plan with a $8,000 deductible. I good choice for younger healthy people. Or I could get a plan with zero deductible with a higher premium.

I laugh at you people. You cried & cried about catastrophic policies no longer being offered. Then you bitch about high deductibles. I guess that is too difficult for an economics expert like you.

 

[RealDave]

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

Everybody wants to immigrate to Germany. Said no one ever.

Nice deflection from the fact that the USA spends the most by far in the World in healthcare when including both out of pocket + government spending on healthcare.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

There's many immigrants in Germany too, such as Turks, Syrians, Russians, Poles, Albanians, Morrocans, Italians, Afghanis, Gypsies, Iraqis, Chechens, Serbs, and even Jews etc.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

You're right, it would be cheaper with less equipment, fewer beds, fewer new drugs and long waits for care.

As long as I can opt out without penalty, and it's not built on government money, I don't give a damn what they do.

But you have insurance. So quit whining.

 

[RealDave]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

Everybody wants to immigrate to Germany. Said no one ever.

Nice deflection from the fact that the USA spends the most by far in the World in healthcare when including both out of pocket + government spending on healthcare.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

There's many immigrants in Germany too, such as Turks, Syrians, Russians, Poles, Albanians, Morrocans, Italians, Afghanis, Gypsies, Iraqis, Chechens, Serbs, and even Jews etc.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

You're right, it would be cheaper with less equipment, fewer beds, fewer new drugs and long waits for care.

You are lying as to the reasons. Especially the wait times.

I waited 8 weeks for a doctor appointment, ten weeks to see an ortho guy about my kneww. Yet if I hsave a problem, I can get in the same day.

 

[RealDave]

The Bottom Line....

If we totally BLEW UP all government health care and made it a totally FREE MARKET with posted online prices for reference....

PRICES WOULD DROP 70% in a year....


Want to cut the cost of health care??

Then CUT GOVERNMENT OUT OF IT, because for the duration of government's interference with health care starting with LBJ, health care costs have vastly outpaced inflation, and that's putting it mildly... Nurses make $150k per year!!!

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

What we have is a system where government only pays about 2/3 of the bill for their patents, and then providers have to make that up through private insurance. Then private insurance has to increase their rates.

This is not the end of the world for perhaps a doctors visit or maybe some therapy, but it starts becoming a major loss with $300,000 surgeries and recovery time in a hospital bed.

Malpractice is so high in cost that your family doctor is hardly a doctor at all. Today they are more like a referral service. If you have a sore throat, you go to the ear, nose and throat specialist. If your arm hurts, you get shipped to an orthopedic specialist.

After that, it's a half-dozen tests or so of what's known in the US as Defensive Medicine. The doctor doesn't need any of these tests for your diagnosis. They need the test results in case you hire an ambulance chaser to try and make money off of the ordeal.

Ronald Reagan said it the best: Government is not a solution to our problems, government is the problem.

The only right approach is to find a way to reduce healthcare costs, and then figure out how we are going to pay for it. Why is it nobody ever addressed that pragmatic approach? Because that would require getting government out of the healthcare business--not putting more in.

LOL, Every country with more government spending , and government intervention actually spend far less than the USA does on healthcare.

But, but, but, it must be the Governments fault, sure.

I was in the business for about ten years. What I saw was frightening . I wrote to my cousin--a research doctor about what was going on. My very liberal cousin wrote back and said, you haven't seen anything yet.

After I changed lines of work, I found out Medicare (at the time) hired Prudential insurance to handle their claims because they were so inept to do so. Too much theft and abuse they couldn't keep up with. Private insurance companies have departments that investigate and prosecute fraud. We don't have that when it comes to government money.

Medicare subcontracts a lot of their work. You are lying about the quality of work.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Then why didn't they make the improvements before implementing the plan?

No one knew what improvements were needed until the plan was implemented. By then, republicans were fighting to repeal the plan and and blocking democrats attempts to fix it.

Obamacare was not really a failure. It just did not delivery everything promised. It eliminated prexisting conditions so insurance companies had to provide insurance regardless of serious illnesses. It eliminated junk insurance that allow insurance companies to sell plans that paid for low cost common medical care but failed to provide healthcare for really serious problems. It eliminated long waiting periods, up to two years of employment in some cases, and many other rather deceptive practices in the insurance industry. It required insurance companies to provide standardize benefits, making insurance easy to understand and compare. It added a lot of preventive care and provided the largest increase ever in mental health and substance abuse coverage, which was long overdue. And lastly, it increased the number insured.

It's primary failure was high cost to the insured. Insurance companies were promised subsides to keep prices low and a mandatory requirement for insurance designed increase number of customers. Obama was not able to increase subsidies significantly without congress support and republicans blocked any attempt to do so. Many exemptions were granted to the mandatory requirement and finally republicans repealed it. The result was many insurance companies exited the market in areas of the country where competition was badly needed. Needless to say premiums went up making the insurance even less affordable.

If congress had increased subsidies and maintained a mandate that everyone have insurance, rates would have been much lower and the cost to government far less than Medicare for All.

It's ironic that republican work to destroy Obamacare, a healthcare system far less socialist that most healthcare plans in the world, has created a large demand for Medicare for All, a plan far more socialist and a far bigger hit on government revenue.

Obamacare was an epic failure that gutted our healthcare system and caused the huge spike in costs we see today.
But I hope Democrats run on it.

The ACA lowered the rate of premium increases.

I hope you Republicans run on how you couldn't come up with something better.

The ACA lowered the rate of premium increases.

And what happened to deductibles?

Well, if you got off your fat ass & looked at the exchanges, you would see a wide range of deductibles.

I could have chose a low premium plan with a $8,000 deductible. I good choice for younger healthy people. Or I could get a plan with zero deductible with a higher premium.

I laugh at you people. You cried & cried about catastrophic policies no longer being offered. Then you bitch about high deductibles. I guess that is too difficult for an economics expert like you.

The deductibles jumped. A lot.
Slowing the rate of increase by $500 a year isn't awesome if your deductible jumps by $2000.

You cried & cried about catastrophic policies no longer being offered. Then you bitch about high deductibles.

Nah. I complained about Obamacare taking choices away from people who already had plans they liked.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

Everybody wants to immigrate to Germany. Said no one ever.

Nice deflection from the fact that the USA spends the most by far in the World in healthcare when including both out of pocket + government spending on healthcare.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

There's many immigrants in Germany too, such as Turks, Syrians, Russians, Poles, Albanians, Morrocans, Italians, Afghanis, Gypsies, Iraqis, Chechens, Serbs, and even Jews etc.

Every single country which has single payer pays less than the USA.

You're right, it would be cheaper with less equipment, fewer beds, fewer new drugs and long waits for care.

You are lying as to the reasons. Especially the wait times.

I waited 8 weeks for a doctor appointment, ten weeks to see an ortho guy about my kneww. Yet if I hsave a problem, I can get in the same day.

 

[Zorro!]

What if everyplace you purchased goods from didn't disclose their prices, but you had no choice but to purchase them anyway?

Yes, yes. "What if every baker in town refused to serve gays?" It's the same stupid (non-real) scenario. In a sane market, no company could get away with what you describe. The fact that companies can get away with that in the health care market is an indication of what is really wrong.

Again, the problem isn't that health care prices aren't transparent. The problem is that there is no demand for them to be transparent. No one gives a shit because no one is paying for their own health care.

While I can't speak for Trump, the idea was to make medical care more transparent.

I went through the same thing when my insulin kept getting more and more expensive. It was to the point of almost unaffordable. Then I discovered they were selling it to Walmart dirt cheap and increasing the price to every other pharmacy.

When I think of the hundreds, if not thousands I needlessly spent going to those other pharmacies because the manufacturer wouldn't give me an honest answer as to why it was getting more expensive, should have allowed to sue the company. They got away with it and still are.

So I do expect government to regulate price control because it's not something the rest of us can't do. Big government is when they do things we can do, and I didn't have the ability to force a company to be honest instead of ripping me off.

Yup. Much of what socialists attack as "profit motive" is actually "rent seeking". Give us price clarity and sensible regulation and we can generally get what we need at the price we want to pay for it.

 

[dblack]

What if everyplace you purchased goods from didn't disclose their prices, but you had no choice but to purchase them anyway?

Yes, yes. "What if every baker in town refused to serve gays?" It's the same stupid (non-real) scenario. In a sane market, no company could get away with what you describe. The fact that companies can get away with that in the health care market is an indication of what is really wrong.

Again, the problem isn't that health care prices aren't transparent. The problem is that there is no demand for them to be transparent. No one gives a shit because no one is paying for their own health care.

While I can't speak for Trump, the idea was to make medical care more transparent.

I went through the same thing when my insulin kept getting more and more expensive. It was to the point of almost unaffordable. Then I discovered they were selling it to Walmart dirt cheap and increasing the price to every other pharmacy.

When I think of the hundreds, if not thousands I needlessly spent going to those other pharmacies because the manufacturer wouldn't give me an honest answer as to why it was getting more expensive, should have allowed to sue the company. They got away with it and still are.

So I do expect government to regulate price control because it's not something the rest of us can't do. Big government is when they do things we can do, and I didn't have the ability to force a company to be honest instead of ripping me off.

Yup. Much of what socialists attack as "profit motive" is actually "rent seeking". Give us price clarity and sensible regulation and we can generally get what we need at the price we want to pay for it.

This is why we're getting socialism. Even the so-called conservatives want government calling the shots in the market.

 

[dblack]

What if everyplace you purchased goods from didn't disclose their prices, but you had no choice but to purchase them anyway?

Yes, yes. "What if every baker in town refused to serve gays?" It's the same stupid (non-real) scenario. In a sane market, no company could get away with what you describe. The fact that companies can get away with that in the health care market is an indication of what is really wrong.

Again, the problem isn't that health care prices aren't transparent. The problem is that there is no demand for them to be transparent. No one gives a shit because no one is paying for their own health care.

While I can't speak for Trump, the idea was to make medical care more transparent.

I went through the same thing when my insulin kept getting more and more expensive. It was to the point of almost unaffordable. Then I discovered they were selling it to Walmart dirt cheap and increasing the price to every other pharmacy.

When I think of the hundreds, if not thousands I needlessly spent going to those other pharmacies because the manufacturer wouldn't give me an honest answer as to why it was getting more expensive, should have allowed to sue the company. They got away with it and still are.

So I do expect government to regulate price control because it's not something the rest of us can't do. Big government is when they do things we can do, and I didn't have the ability to force a company to be honest instead of ripping me off.

Yup. Much of what socialists attack as "profit motive" is actually "rent seeking". Give us price clarity and sensible regulation and we can generally get what we need at the price we want to pay for it.

Democrats want "sensible" regulation too! You all agree! Kumbaya

 

[skye]

 

[Weatherman2020]

Bernie is just like Karl Marx but with more homes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Health care prices are not isolated, it's a problem no matter what country you go to. But government is a huge problem in our particular situation. Government is not the solution. Look at what Commie Care did to this country. Look what happened when DumBama had the government takeover school loans. Look at the problems government created in the lending institutions.

Democrats are behind government running things, but when they do, they make it better for some, and worse for most others. The people that get the advantages are likely Democrat voters, and the people who get screwed are likely Republicans. The problems are never solved, just moved from one entity to another.

In any case, many of our representatives on either side are former lawyers. They are not about to regulate to make things harder on their industry, even if it's better for the country.

Actually, quite the opposite.

Lack of government intervention is the issue.

Germany pays out of pocket + in government spending about half of what we do.
Yet, they live longer.

The issue is that the free market leads to jacked up prices, besides we already have the most inefficient form of national healthcare, one where the government pays for peoples ER tabs who can't pay it.

What we have is a system where government only pays about 2/3 of the bill for their patents, and then providers have to make that up through private insurance. Then private insurance has to increase their rates.

This is not the end of the world for perhaps a doctors visit or maybe some therapy, but it starts becoming a major loss with $300,000 surgeries and recovery time in a hospital bed.

Malpractice is so high in cost that your family doctor is hardly a doctor at all. Today they are more like a referral service. If you have a sore throat, you go to the ear, nose and throat specialist. If your arm hurts, you get shipped to an orthopedic specialist.

After that, it's a half-dozen tests or so of what's known in the US as Defensive Medicine. The doctor doesn't need any of these tests for your diagnosis. They need the test results in case you hire an ambulance chaser to try and make money off of the ordeal.

Ronald Reagan said it the best: Government is not a solution to our problems, government is the problem.

The only right approach is to find a way to reduce healthcare costs, and then figure out how we are going to pay for it. Why is it nobody ever addressed that pragmatic approach? Because that would require getting government out of the healthcare business--not putting more in.

LOL, Every country with more government spending , and government intervention actually spend far less than the USA does on healthcare.

But, but, but, it must be the Governments fault, sure.

I was in the business for about ten years. What I saw was frightening . I wrote to my cousin--a research doctor about what was going on. My very liberal cousin wrote back and said, you haven't seen anything yet.

After I changed lines of work, I found out Medicare (at the time) hired Prudential insurance to handle their claims because they were so inept to do so. Too much theft and abuse they couldn't keep up with. Private insurance companies have departments that investigate and prosecute fraud. We don't have that when it comes to government money.

Medicare subcontracts a lot of their work. You are lying about the quality of work.

So how many sites would you like me to post stating the opposite? People ripping of Medicare and Medicaid goes into the billions each year. Not that it doesn't happen in the private market, but not even close to how bad it is with government.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then why didn't they make the improvements before implementing the plan?

No one knew what improvements were needed until the plan was implemented. By then, republicans were fighting to repeal the plan and and blocking democrats attempts to fix it.

Obamacare was not really a failure. It just did not delivery everything promised. It eliminated prexisting conditions so insurance companies had to provide insurance regardless of serious illnesses. It eliminated junk insurance that allow insurance companies to sell plans that paid for low cost common medical care but failed to provide healthcare for really serious problems. It eliminated long waiting periods, up to two years of employment in some cases, and many other rather deceptive practices in the insurance industry. It required insurance companies to provide standardize benefits, making insurance easy to understand and compare. It added a lot of preventive care and provided the largest increase ever in mental health and substance abuse coverage, which was long overdue. And lastly, it increased the number insured.

It's primary failure was high cost to the insured. Insurance companies were promised subsides to keep prices low and a mandatory requirement for insurance designed increase number of customers. Obama was not able to increase subsidies significantly without congress support and republicans blocked any attempt to do so. Many exemptions were granted to the mandatory requirement and finally republicans repealed it. The result was many insurance companies exited the market in areas of the country where competition was badly needed. Needless to say premiums went up making the insurance even less affordable.

If congress had increased subsidies and maintained a mandate that everyone have insurance, rates would have been much lower and the cost to government far less than Medicare for All.

It's ironic that republican work to destroy Obamacare, a healthcare system far less socialist that most healthcare plans in the world, has created a large demand for Medicare for All, a plan far more socialist and a far bigger hit on government revenue.

Obamacare was an epic failure that gutted our healthcare system and caused the huge spike in costs we see today.
But I hope Democrats run on it.

The ACA lowered the rate of premium increases.

I hope you Republicans run on how you couldn't come up with something better.

The ACA lowered the rate of premium increases.

And what happened to deductibles?

Well, if you got off your fat ass & looked at the exchanges, you would see a wide range of deductibles.

I could have chose a low premium plan with a $8,000 deductible. I good choice for younger healthy people. Or I could get a plan with zero deductible with a higher premium.

I laugh at you people. You cried & cried about catastrophic policies no longer being offered. Then you bitch about high deductibles. I guess that is too difficult for an economics expert like you.

There is nothing wrong with having either. But when a catastrophic plan costs more than your employer paid for a decent plan, it's entirely a farce.

My employer paid about half of what Commie Care wanted, and while not a great plan, my deductible was only $2,000. At least if something serious happened, it was something. With Commie Care, you'd have to get run over by a bus to use the damn thing.

That's besides the fact one of the many lies told by DumBama is there would be no garbage plans, when in fact there are garbage plans, and they certainly are not affordable.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What if everyplace you purchased goods from didn't disclose their prices, but you had no choice but to purchase them anyway?

Yes, yes. "What if every baker in town refused to serve gays?" It's the same stupid (non-real) scenario. In a sane market, no company could get away with what you describe. The fact that companies can get away with that in the health care market is an indication of what is really wrong.

Again, the problem isn't that health care prices aren't transparent. The problem is that there is no demand for them to be transparent. No one gives a shit because no one is paying for their own health care.

While I can't speak for Trump, the idea was to make medical care more transparent.

I went through the same thing when my insulin kept getting more and more expensive. It was to the point of almost unaffordable. Then I discovered they were selling it to Walmart dirt cheap and increasing the price to every other pharmacy.

When I think of the hundreds, if not thousands I needlessly spent going to those other pharmacies because the manufacturer wouldn't give me an honest answer as to why it was getting more expensive, should have allowed to sue the company. They got away with it and still are.

So I do expect government to regulate price control because it's not something the rest of us can't do. Big government is when they do things we can do, and I didn't have the ability to force a company to be honest instead of ripping me off.

"It's different when we do it."

Sorry, the excuses don't cut it.

Hardly an excuse at all. What is your plan, no government at all? Government plays a part when there are things happening we have no control over.

It's like when I had a problem with my leaf blower a few years ago. Brand new and quality to boot. I took it to the shop, and the guy told me it would be about three weeks before he could get to it. He called me two days later to tell me it was ready.

When I got there, all he found was bad fuel. He asked how I mixed it with the oil. I told him I put one container of oil, go to the gas pump, and fill it with exactly one gallon of fuel. He then asked where I got my fuel from. Bingo! That was the problem. The station around the corner from me was selling garbage gasoline.

He said it was a common problem he runs into all the time, because consumers just assume the quality of gasoline they purchase is acceptable.

You see, I thought quality of gasoline WAS regulated by government. Apparently it's not, and it should be. That bit of a learning experience cost me fifty bucks. So is it BIG GOVERNMENT to expect them to regulate things like gasoline so people don't get ripped off and spend money on repairs they never needed in the first place?