Bernie wants a $7.20 minimum wage

[MAGAman]

The US illlegally invaded Iraq and Afghanistan on lies.

Repeating lies doesn't make them so.

 

[Ken Mac]

Not only that, but the entire wealth of the people of the United states combined is < 100T


so even taking all of the wealth doesn't work either.

t'he math doesn't fucking work.

Sanders continually explains that his programs save money and therefore cost nothing more.
For example, Medicare for all would cost less than half what we pay now in private health insurance.

Sad part is that you believe we can go down that path and not bankrupt our country.

We are 23 trillion in debt with no end in sight. Odd how it is that the endless wars are not going bankrupt us but making sure everyone can afford medical care will.

I think the endless wars need to end too! but they are a drop in the bucket compared to Bernie's total plan and the costs associated with it. Medicare for all is way, way more than the war dollars we spend.

Most of which we are already spending. You act like the billions being spent on health care now is just going to stop. It is not.

Where did I say that? It's not going to stop. It's 22% of our GNP. It keeps going up because we (our country) are the largest innovator in medicine by far!

 

[Ken Mac]

There is no such thing as "Free".

 

[MAGAman]

Democratic Socialist.

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.

All Totalitarians give lofty descriptions of their objectives.

Look at what they do, not what they say.

 

[Rigby5]

I explained how it was paid back. You refuse to acknowledge that.

It was paid back with debt and equity issuances aka the private sector. You don’t need to explain anything to me. Banks are vital to the US. They are our engine to economic success.

Right, you support bailing out the banks even though they failed which is how capitalism works but you say you support capitalism. You do not.

It wasnt capitalism that failed. It was easy financing and a bundle of lies. Wasn't capitalism. Once again, your inability to think critically has caused you to arrive at your mistaken drivel.

Yes it was capitalism that failed when the real estate housing market dropped.
The buyers had been sold deliberately deceptive adjustable mortgages based on the British LIBOR instead of the US prime, and then the LIBOR was fraudulently manipulated to almost double their payments.
The LIBOR Scandal

No, it wasn't.

Its well documented that it was the LIBOR cheating that caused it all.
It could not have been the fault of giving loans to people who could not afford it because they paid their mortgages for many years previously, without a problem. And it was Bush borrowing trillions that tightened up the credit market, which is also a fault of capitalism.

 

[Rigby5]

So easily duped you are.

Did Sanders Propose Raising Taxes to 52% on Incomes Over $29,000?

The thing is, you knew this had been debunked but still felt like you have to post it.

But lets argue it was true. It's a heck of a deal. Minimum wage now is $7.25. So in this scenario people would get $7.20 but also get health care. That's a really good deal.

No, actually you would lose more money.

Wrong.
Minimum wage jobs do not come with health care, and if you try to buy it yourself, you get the worst possible rates.
Close to $1000/month if you do not get an ACA subsidy.
People work about 160 hours a month, so insurance costs about $6.25 an hour.
So free health care means you get paid the additional benefit worth $6.25/hour.

No, actually you would lose money under his authoritarian state rule.

Socialism can never be authoritarian, and it is always only capitalism that can be authoritarian.
Authoritarianism is when a single individual or group of elite, dictate.
And socialism has to always be collaborative and communal, which then always has to be democratic by definition.
Authoritarianism is always for profit, so is always capitalist.

 

[Dragonlady]

But won't tell his brain dead supporters how.

So let me help.

Bernie wants a mandatory minimum wage of $15/hour

Ok, sounds great right?!

$15 x 40 hours/week = $600

$600 x 52 weeks per year = $31,200

Bernie wants free health care for all and was asked how he would pay for it, to which he said he would raise taxes 52% on everyone making over $29,000/year.

52% of 31,200 = $16,224 in tax

$31,200 - $16224 = $14,976 in pay per year

$14,976 divided by 52 weeks = $288 per week

$288 divided by 40 hours = $7.20 per hour

So there you have it. Bernie wants to reduce the minimum wage down to $7.20 per hour.

Unfortunately, most Americans can't do math. All they do know is, Orange Man is bad.

That's not how you would calculate the amount of impact a tax increase of 52% on someone making over $29,000.....

First off to calculate what an increase of 52% would be in actual percentage terms would mean you need to know that persons current effective tax rate, for the sake of keeping it simple let's say that someone making $31,200 per year has a current effective income tax rate of 10% an increase of 52% to that would mean an increase to 15.2%, which means that:

instead of having a $3,120 federal tax bill , they'd have a bill of $4,742.4, or a increase of $1,622.4 per year, which works out to $1,622.4/(40 * 52 hours) = $0.78 per hour

Of course there would be all sorts of variance from the above depending on deductions, marital status, etc..

The real key is to look at the BERNARD supposed model...…..the NORDIC country's. I am not choosing them, HE DID!

Lower wage earners pay through the nose, and that is before the 25% vat tax is included, which brings it up to astronomical.

BERNARD can play his game, but when you take HIS model, the poor people n longer get money for free, they paying outlandishly.

They can decide, and I have no problem with that, as long as they understand the REAL difference.

You're the one who doesn't understand. The average American family of 4 pays $833 per month on health care on out of pocket expenses, premiums, and co-pays. That's $10,000 per year.

The employer health care rate for a family of 4 is $20,000 per year. That's part of your compensation so if you're required to pay 1/4 of that in your $10,000 out of pocket, that means your employer pays the insurance company $15,000 out of YOUR pocket, since it's part of YOUR compensation. So the average family of four is now out of pocket $25,000 per year, for health care.

Unless you're making more than $100,000 per year, YOU and your family, are much better off in Norway than they are in the USA.

If the taxes you're paying are providing you and your family with the best education in the world, health care for all, and a living wage from cradle to grave, you're much better off than you are right now. Americans ask the wrong question. It's not how much are you paying in taxes, it's what are you getting for your taxes paid.

Americans get a big fat government and a HUGE military for their government, subsidies for farmers, and wage subsidies for the wealthiest corporations. The rest of the world gets health care, infrastructure, education, and income supports for ALL of our people.

 

[Rigby5]

There is no such thing as "Free".

Sure there is.
For example, we have lots of oil reserves under federal land.
Instead of selling it away for pennies on the dollar to private oil companies, we could easily pump and refine it federally, giving us all lots of free money.
Even what they do in Alaska, where each person annually get $1100 dividends from oil revenue, is free money.

 

[Rigby5]

Democratic Socialist.

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.

All Totalitarians give lofty descriptions of their objectives.

Look at what they do, not what they say.

The only totalitarians are capitalists.
That is by basic definition, because anyone who it profit motivated is a capitalist.

 

[Ken Mac]

It was paid back with debt and equity issuances aka the private sector. You don’t need to explain anything to me. Banks are vital to the US. They are our engine to economic success.

Right, you support bailing out the banks even though they failed which is how capitalism works but you say you support capitalism. You do not.

It wasnt capitalism that failed. It was easy financing and a bundle of lies. Wasn't capitalism. Once again, your inability to think critically has caused you to arrive at your mistaken drivel.

Yes it was capitalism that failed when the real estate housing market dropped.
The buyers had been sold deliberately deceptive adjustable mortgages based on the British LIBOR instead of the US prime, and then the LIBOR was fraudulently manipulated to almost double their payments.
The LIBOR Scandal

No, it wasn't.

Its well documented that it was the LIBOR cheating that caused it all.
It could not have been the fault of giving loans to people who could not afford it because they paid their mortgages for many years previously, without a problem. And it was Bush borrowing trillions that tightened up the credit market, which is also a fault of capitalism.

You couldn't be more wrong on pretty much everything you wrote.

Go watch The Big Short. That is the most accurate description of what happened.

The "Libor Cheating" as you put it didn't come to a head until 2012. Five years after the balloon popped.

 

[The Original Tree]

According to your article, assuming it is true because Snopes is a far left source:

BUTTIGIEG: [Sanders] was a congressman at the time. And the qualities I admired then are qualities I still respect a great deal. I never said that I agree with every part of his policy views, then or now. But I appreciate that at least he’s straightforward and honest about them. He’s honest about the fact that taxes will go up on anybody making more than $29,000 to fund his health care plan, although, again, a little bit vague about how the rest of that gets …

SANDERS: You’re not being honest. Premiums would be eliminated.

BUTTIGIEG: But you’re still raising those taxes. And when you do it…

SANDERS: But we’re saving people money because they don’t pay any premiums, out-of-pocket expenses, co-payments, or deductibles. They’re going to be much better off. [applause]

BUTTIGIEG: But where is — where is the other $25 trillion supposed to come from? At a certain point, you’ve got to do the math.

SANDERS: Well, we got it all up there on the internet. It’s a payroll tax — a payroll tax…

[crosstalk]

BUTTIGIEG: Well, no, but even after the payroll tax, you still have a hole.

[crosstalk]

SANDERS: Because we have a wealth tax. Elizabeth [Warren] has a good one. Ours is a little bit tougher on Mr. Bloomberg than hers. We’re going to raise it in a progressive way, which deals with income and wealth inequality, and makes certain, finally, that health care in this country is a human right, not a privilege.

So Sanders is going to pay for all this from the "rich"? The combined wealth of Billionaires is only $2.4 trillion and could only fund the US federal government about half a year.

Sanders and The Democrats are out to Bankrupt America.

You cannot extract $200 Trillion of Government Spending out of just a $20 Trillion Economy.

Not only that, but the entire wealth of the people of the United states combined is < 100T


so even taking all of the wealth doesn't work either.

t'he math doesn't fucking work.

Sanders continually explains that his programs save money and therefore cost nothing more.
For example, Medicare for all would cost less than half what we pay now in private health insurance.

It's how it works in other first world countries. I've noted over and over the argument is that the "greatest" country in the world is unable to do what ever other first world country has been able to do.

This says it all:

This chart is not The Total Tax Burden. The AVERAGE American pays 54% of his wages to Federal State and Local.

The Sanders Socialists, want to increase The Total Tax Burden 30%, which means The Average American would be paying 84% of his income in taxes.

84% Total Tax Burden just to give Illegals Free Healthcare, Free College, Free Housing, Free Daycare?

How can a person live on just $16 of every $100 we make? This is what Sanders is really proposing. Honestly he should be shot as a Soviet Spy, Infiltrator, Traitor and Saboteur, his plans are that intentionally reckless and damaging and dangerous.

Considering that 47% of Americans pay NO TAXES AT ALL in to The System, this is Unacceptable and represents a Financial Collapse for our economy as The Taxpayers will not longer be able to afford to feed, clothe and shelter themselves, while The Non Workers live in relative luxury, and leisure.

 

[Ken Mac]

There is no such thing as "Free".

Sure there is.
For example, we have lots of oil reserves under federal land.
Instead of selling it away for pennies on the dollar to private oil companies, we could easily pump and refine it federally, giving us all lots of free money.
Even what they do in Alaska, where each person annually get $1100 dividends from oil revenue, is free money.

There is a cost associated with it. It's not free.

 

[Rigby5]

The US illlegally invaded Iraq and Afghanistan on lies.

Repeating lies doesn't make them so.

What possible way could that simple statement be wrong?
The whole point of the US ratifying the UN charter into law and joining the UN as to make war illegal except if in defense when attacked, or if under the request of the UN itself.
Both Iraq and Afghanistan had nothing to do with bin Laden's personal attack on the US in 9/11, so it was illegal to then use military force on those countries.
In fact, Shock and Awe deliberately targeted civilian infrastructure, so was a war crime.

 

[The Original Tree]

According to your article, assuming it is true because Snopes is a far left source:

BUTTIGIEG: [Sanders] was a congressman at the time. And the qualities I admired then are qualities I still respect a great deal. I never said that I agree with every part of his policy views, then or now. But I appreciate that at least he’s straightforward and honest about them. He’s honest about the fact that taxes will go up on anybody making more than $29,000 to fund his health care plan, although, again, a little bit vague about how the rest of that gets …

SANDERS: You’re not being honest. Premiums would be eliminated.

BUTTIGIEG: But you’re still raising those taxes. And when you do it…

SANDERS: But we’re saving people money because they don’t pay any premiums, out-of-pocket expenses, co-payments, or deductibles. They’re going to be much better off. [applause]

BUTTIGIEG: But where is — where is the other $25 trillion supposed to come from? At a certain point, you’ve got to do the math.

SANDERS: Well, we got it all up there on the internet. It’s a payroll tax — a payroll tax…

[crosstalk]

BUTTIGIEG: Well, no, but even after the payroll tax, you still have a hole.

[crosstalk]

SANDERS: Because we have a wealth tax. Elizabeth [Warren] has a good one. Ours is a little bit tougher on Mr. Bloomberg than hers. We’re going to raise it in a progressive way, which deals with income and wealth inequality, and makes certain, finally, that health care in this country is a human right, not a privilege.

So Sanders is going to pay for all this from the "rich"? The combined wealth of Billionaires is only $2.4 trillion and could only fund the US federal government about half a year.

Sanders and The Democrats are out to Bankrupt America.

You cannot extract $200 Trillion of Government Spending out of just a $20 Trillion Economy.

Not only that, but the entire wealth of the people of the United states combined is < 100T


so even taking all of the wealth doesn't work either.

t'he math doesn't fucking work.

Sanders continually explains that his programs save money and therefore cost nothing more.
For example, Medicare for all would cost less than half what we pay now in private health insurance.

Sad part is that you believe we can go down that path and not bankrupt our country.

We are 23 trillion in debt with no end in sight. Odd how it is that the endless wars are not going bankrupt us but making sure everyone can afford medical care will.

How is Sanders adding $200 Trillion to The National Debt and burdening The Taxpayer with unsustainable taxes going to slow down the debt?

Our GDP is only $20 Trillion and you want to wreck our economy with a $200 Trillion Tax Burden?

Are you going to borrow that $200 Trillion from The Chinese?

 

[Ken Mac]

Sanders and The Democrats are out to Bankrupt America.

You cannot extract $200 Trillion of Government Spending out of just a $20 Trillion Economy.

Not only that, but the entire wealth of the people of the United states combined is < 100T


so even taking all of the wealth doesn't work either.

t'he math doesn't fucking work.

Sanders continually explains that his programs save money and therefore cost nothing more.
For example, Medicare for all would cost less than half what we pay now in private health insurance.

It's how it works in other first world countries. I've noted over and over the argument is that the "greatest" country in the world is unable to do what ever other first world country has been able to do.

This says it all:

This chart is not The Total Tax Burden. The AVERAGE American pays 54% of his wages to Federal State and Local.

The Sanders Socialists, want to increase The Total Tax Burden 30%, which means The Average American would be paying 80% of his income in taxes.

Considering that 47% of Americans pay NO TAXES AT ALL in to The System, this is Unacceptable and represents a Financial Collapse for our economy as The Taxpayers will not longer be able to afford to feed, clothe and shelter themselves, while The Non Workers live in relative luxury, and leisure.

Sales tax is a consumption tax. It shouldn't be included in calculating take home pay.

As shouldn't other taxes such as personal property tax, property tax.

I get your point but this is an apples to apples comparison.

 

[pknopp]

Sanders continually explains that his programs save money and therefore cost nothing more.
For example, Medicare for all would cost less than half what we pay now in private health insurance.

Sad part is that you believe we can go down that path and not bankrupt our country.

We are 23 trillion in debt with no end in sight. Odd how it is that the endless wars are not going bankrupt us but making sure everyone can afford medical care will.

I think the endless wars need to end too! but they are a drop in the bucket compared to Bernie's total plan and the costs associated with it. Medicare for all is way, way more than the war dollars we spend.

Most of which we are already spending. You act like the billions being spent on health care now is just going to stop. It is not.

Where did I say that? It's not going to stop. It's 22% of our GNP. It keeps going up because we (our country) are the largest innovator in medicine by far!

Not true. It has been noted that Rush is likely going to have to undergo cancer treatment that was developed in Cuba. Germany creates a ton of innovation. A large percentage of what we create is also underwritten by the government.

 

[Rigby5]

Sanders and The Democrats are out to Bankrupt America.

You cannot extract $200 Trillion of Government Spending out of just a $20 Trillion Economy.

Not only that, but the entire wealth of the people of the United states combined is < 100T


so even taking all of the wealth doesn't work either.

t'he math doesn't fucking work.

Sanders continually explains that his programs save money and therefore cost nothing more.
For example, Medicare for all would cost less than half what we pay now in private health insurance.

It's how it works in other first world countries. I've noted over and over the argument is that the "greatest" country in the world is unable to do what ever other first world country has been able to do.

This says it all:

This chart is not The Total Tax Burden. The AVERAGE American pays 54% of his wages to Federal State and Local.

The Sanders Socialists, want to increase The Total Tax Burden 30%, which means The Average American would be paying 80% of his income in taxes.

Considering that 47% of Americans pay NO TAXES AT ALL in to The System, this is Unacceptable and represents a Financial Collapse for our economy as The Taxpayers will not longer be able to afford to feed, clothe and shelter themselves, while The Non Workers live in relative luxury, and leisure.

No, Sanders consistently has said that by not allowing employers and insurance companies to monopolize health care, we can add the few who would make it free for all, and it would cost us far less.
Sanders has NEVER suggested we should pay any more than we do now.

And by the way, presidents do not get to do anything like this, since it would be Congress and not the president.

 

[The Original Tree]

Let's say that is true. That is not the claim being made. We give the super rich billions of dollars from the Fed. That should indeed be shared.

You could take all of the wealthy people' money and it still wouldn't be enough.

You can address what I said or not. Why is it that only a few should benefit from the creation of billions and billions when they do nothing to get that wealth?

You cannot be that stupid? The rich do nothing? You're clueless.

For the billions and billions the Fed creates out of nothing?

What does the goverment creat?

Debt

 

[Rigby5]

There is no such thing as "Free".

Sure there is.
For example, we have lots of oil reserves under federal land.
Instead of selling it away for pennies on the dollar to private oil companies, we could easily pump and refine it federally, giving us all lots of free money.
Even what they do in Alaska, where each person annually get $1100 dividends from oil revenue, is free money.

There is a cost associated with it. It's not free.

There is no cost at all associated with allowing government to profit from its oil instead of giving away those profits.
The money Alaska pays back to its residents is not from income tax.
It is from pipeline rental revenue.
So it is free money, earned by the state.

 

[pknopp]

Democratic Socialist.

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.

All Totalitarians give lofty descriptions of their objectives.

Look at what they do, not what they say.

Trump says he is pulling the troops. What does he actually do?