BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Cong

[ogibillm]

You believe they will abuse their tax exempt status.
That is not a supposition but a statement of fact.

it's a fact that i believe that, but it is a prediction on my part - a supposition. it cannot be supported with evidence of it happening by its nature of being a future event.

at worst you can call it ill-informed, poorly thought out, or even nearly impossible - but it cannot be called a lie.

this isn't that hard.

Ok if you call it ill informed, poorly thought out or impossible then there isnt much I can add to discredit it.

is english your first language?

it's clear that I was not calling my prediction that, but rather saying that is the worst that you could say about it.

fourth grade must have been hard on you, huh?
don't worry, you'll lick it next year.

 

[depotoo]

Jebus, so the lady bosserman (SP), who the lying republicans said is in charge of the DoJ investigation and has donated to Obama, IS NOT IN CHARGE of the investigation.....

Why do you guys have to LIE, WHY?

So, you don't care for all, after all? Only the republicans are wrong in this. Got it. At least you dropped the facade. No need to reply.

 

[The Rabbi]

it's a fact that i believe that, but it is a prediction on my part - a supposition. it cannot be supported with evidence of it happening by its nature of being a future event.

at worst you can call it ill-informed, poorly thought out, or even nearly impossible - but it cannot be called a lie.

this isn't that hard.

Ok if you call it ill informed, poorly thought out or impossible then there isnt much I can add to discredit it.

is english your first language?

it's clear that I was not calling my prediction that, but rather saying that is the worst that you could say about it.

fourth grade must have been hard on you, huh?
don't worry, you'll lick it next year.

No I could say much worse about it. But you already did the heavy lifting here so my job is done.

 

[The Rabbi]

Jebus, so the lady bosserman (SP), who the lying republicans said is in charge of the DoJ investigation and has donated to Obama, IS NOT IN CHARGE of the investigation.....

Why do you guys have to LIE, WHY?

So, you don't care for all, after all? Only the republicans are wrong in this. Got it. At least you dropped the facade. No need to reply.

At least we're getting to the nub.
Initially it was "The IRS scandal is a phony scandal, nothng happened."
Then it became, "Something happened but the IRS has turned over everything and it's all OK.
Now it's "Yeah they violated the law but we dont care because we hate Republicans."

 

[BlindBoo]

Jebus, so the lady bosserman (SP), who the lying republicans said is in charge of the DoJ investigation and has donated to Obama, IS NOT IN CHARGE of the investigation.....

Why do you guys have to LIE, WHY?

So, you don't care for all, after all? Only the republicans are wrong in this. Got it. At least you dropped the facade. No need to reply.

At least we're getting to the nub.
Initially it was "The IRS scandal is a phony scandal, nothng happened."
Then it became, "Something happened but the IRS has turned over everything and it's all OK.
Now it's "Yeah they violated the law but we dont care because we hate Republicans."

The nub was never "nothing happened". The reason it is in the media was a report about what happened. The phony scandal is that what happened was at the direction of President Obama. Which, if true would be an impeachable offense.

 

[The Rabbi]

So, you don't care for all, after all? Only the republicans are wrong in this. Got it. At least you dropped the facade. No need to reply.

At least we're getting to the nub.
Initially it was "The IRS scandal is a phony scandal, nothng happened."
Then it became, "Something happened but the IRS has turned over everything and it's all OK.
Now it's "Yeah they violated the law but we dont care because we hate Republicans."

The nub was never "nothing happened". The reason it is in the media was a report about what happened. The phony scandal is that what happened was at the direction of President Obama. Which, if true would be an impeachable offense.

Sorry, I forgot the strawman "nothing ties this to Obama" like that was the meat of the issue anyway.
Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Oldstyle]

Okay, I can understand why they would need emails, except the personal ones saved....Jarhead.

In fact, I thought they would be saved, but not by the employee themselves by having to print a paper copy, not in this day and age...that just seems utterly ridiculous.....doesn't it to you as well?

I am still not certain we understand fully what these IRS rules are all about, when it comes to federal records, but for certain, I still felt there had to be a server, somewhere, or a back up somewhere, that emails and operational business would be stored at least for 3-7 years.

And what do you think this means, this comes from the link of rules you supplied above:

How do you interpret what I bolded? this whole section of the IRS rules and regs is basically telling them to be careful with large documents and larger groups that they send emails to because it takes up too much space on all of their individual servers...ISN'T IT?

so what's THAT all about? sounds like there are other places to search for these supposed lost emails, doesn't it? @Jarhead

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

I guess I just don't share your conclusion that congress can't look for them or get them....I don't comprehend those words of "can not"....never have in my life and never will....

If I were one of these congress critters investigating, and did the research, as I have done here, and I knew there were copies on the dahdadah servers for all emails according to the rules and regs memo of the IRS, then I would tell this to the IRS dudes in the meeting and show them their rules and regs, and subpena those servers....

No way Jose' would I throw up my hands and say "Wahhhhh, I can't get to them"....

so either the servers with back ups don't exist (which is unlikely imo), or the Congress Critters truly do not want to get to the bottom of this, at least not in any kind of timely manner....and if this is the case, that would be for political posturing for the upcoming election.

BTW, what do they expect to find in the hard drive crashed emails, that would not have been continued in the emails after that point if it involved specific cases?

What do you think is in these hard drive crashed emails and is there any evidence, other than the email's evaporating, that supports your speculations of what is in them? Any other outside evidence?

Do you think Learner was being told by Obama to do this to the Tea Party groups and this would have shown up in the emails???

Or conversations between these people conniving to break the law for political purposes only?

What is it that you are looking for, to show up in Learner's emails? What am I missing as far as evidence so far?

Are you REALLY this oblivious to what's been going on with this IRS scandal for the past year? The Congressional committee investigating it DID subpoena the emails and was told repeatedly by the IRS that they would be receiving them shortly. Months later...buried on page 17 of a 29 something page document sent over from the IRS to the committee, the IRS confessed that they didn't have the emails to hand over because 7 peoples hard drive's crashed...no paper copies were ever made as was required by law...nobody bothered to recover the lost data from the backup tapes designed for just that purpose...and they allowed those back up tapes to be "scrubbed" destroying what was on them!

For you to sit there and say that Congress are the one's who don't want to get to the bottom of this is LAUGHABLE!!!

The woman who ran the "investigation" of this and decided that there wasn't anything "there" was asked under oath who it was that was working under her supervision and she couldn't remember anyone's name! I repeat...she spent SIX MONTHS supposedly investigating this and yet doesn't know the flipping names of ANYONE who was working on this with her! She didn't ask to see any of the emails of the people being investigated...nor did she talk to any of the people who were alleged to have been targeted BY the IRS! So tell me, Care...WHAT THE HELL WAS THIS WOMAN DOING FOR SIX MONTHS!!! It's obvious that she wasn't conducting anything that even vaguely resembles a legitimate investigation.

 

[Oldstyle]

So, you don't care for all, after all? Only the republicans are wrong in this. Got it. At least you dropped the facade. No need to reply.

At least we're getting to the nub.
Initially it was "The IRS scandal is a phony scandal, nothng happened."
Then it became, "Something happened but the IRS has turned over everything and it's all OK.
Now it's "Yeah they violated the law but we dont care because we hate Republicans."

The nub was never "nothing happened". The reason it is in the media was a report about what happened. The phony scandal is that what happened was at the direction of President Obama. Which, if true would be an impeachable offense.

Let's remember you saying that, Boo! The reason I think we've seen all these amazing hard drive failures...loss of paper copies...failure to recover lost data from the tape back ups...and then the scrubbing of those backups to destroy what was there...is that there WAS a connection between Lois Lerner at the IRS...her friend over in the Justice Department...and then through that person to the White House. Normally we would be following a "chain" of email conversations to determine what took place but we can't do that because they've done their best to destroy everything that was being said between Lerner and the others.

If they ARE somehow able to recover those emails and it DOES point to the Obama White House I expect that you'll be the first to call for Barack Obama's impeachment?

 

[Siete]

Ah yes...another progressive that hasn't watched the hearings! Just from those...Trey Gowdy, Jim Jordon, Paul Ryan, Dave Camp, Sam Johnson, Kevin Brady, Charles Boustany, Peter Roskum, Adrian Smith, Tim Griffin, Jim Renacci, Todd Young, Tom Price, Vern Buchanan, Jim Gerlach, Lynn Jenkins, Diane Black, Devin Nunes, Tom Reed, Pat Tiberi, Aaron Shlock, Kenny Marchant, & Eric Paulson. That's just barely scratching the surface! I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that Republican lawmakers don't care about the IRS scandal, Siete but it's an amusing contention. How about you show me GOP lawmakers that have come out AGAINST the investigation of the IRS?

ok, fair enough. I suppose voting for an investigation is tantamount to Issa standing up and chirping like a bird about it. So you're watching the trial? What's the update? Republicans or Democrats haven't been advertising it to the media, so I imagine not much has come out of it.

Let me guess...because you haven't seen the hearing covered in the main stream media... therefore you've come to the conclusion that it's not happening? You might as well hold up a sign that says "Hello, I'm Siete! Don't ask me any questions about Obama scandals because I only watch programing that reinforces my political beliefs that Obama is the best President EVER!"

So did you want to tell me why 26 Democrats have supported the appointment of a Special Prosecutor to investigate the IRS if nobody "cares" about the IRS scandal? You didn't hear about that on MSNBC or Think Progress, I take it?

Hello, I'm Siete. Don't ask me any questions about the BS RW scandals they conjure up on a daily basis, They're idiots.


How did I do ?


So did you want to tell me why 26 Democrats have supported the appointment of a Special Prosecutor to investigate the IRS if nobody "cares" about the IRS scandal? You didn't hear about that on MSNBC or Think Progress, I take it?


to get answers for their committee other than the BS that comes from the Republicans ????

 

[BlindBoo]

At least we're getting to the nub.
Initially it was "The IRS scandal is a phony scandal, nothng happened."
Then it became, "Something happened but the IRS has turned over everything and it's all OK.
Now it's "Yeah they violated the law but we dont care because we hate Republicans."

The nub was never "nothing happened". The reason it is in the media was a report about what happened. The phony scandal is that what happened was at the direction of President Obama. Which, if true would be an impeachable offense.

Sorry, I forgot the strawman "nothing ties this to Obama" like that was the meat of the issue anyway.
Thanks for reminding me.

How convenient to forget even the MSM calling it Obama's Watergate........

Learn to forget.......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxizIrbcSuU]The Doors - Soul Kitchen (2006 Remastered) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Rabbi]

The nub was never "nothing happened". The reason it is in the media was a report about what happened. The phony scandal is that what happened was at the direction of President Obama. Which, if true would be an impeachable offense.

Sorry, I forgot the strawman "nothing ties this to Obama" like that was the meat of the issue anyway.
Thanks for reminding me.

How convenient to forget even the MSM calling it Obama's Watergate........

Learn to forget.......

l]

Cite to anyone in the MSM claimin it was Obama's Watergate? Even if they did, so what? That's not the issue, not has it ever been.

 

[Vigilante]

Being it worked so well with #BringOurGirlsBack!!!!!

 

[BlindBoo]

Sorry, I forgot the strawman "nothing ties this to Obama" like that was the meat of the issue anyway.
Thanks for reminding me.

How convenient to forget even the MSM calling it Obama's Watergate........

Learn to forget.......

l]

Cite to anyone in the MSM claimin it was Obama's Watergate? Even if they did, so what? That's not the issue, not has it ever been.

Tying the White House to the IRS abuse the only issue, always has been.

 

[The Rabbi]

How convenient to forget even the MSM calling it Obama's Watergate........

Learn to forget.......

l]

Cite to anyone in the MSM claimin it was Obama's Watergate? Even if they did, so what? That's not the issue, not has it ever been.

Tying the White House to the IRS abuse the only issue, always has been.

OK so you have no citation for anyone in the MSM calling this Obama's Watergate. Got it.
Tying Obama to it is a strawman. You fail.
Next.

 

[Care4all]

Thanks for proving my previous point.

She was personally appointed by the President to investigate it.

proof or be branded a liar.

If you need proof I suggest you find another news outlet to watch.

Done with you as well.

Cyas

Your side's lovely propaganda, pegged her as THE investigator for the case.

You did not say that she was 1 of the many, chosen to be on the team to investigate. She was 1 person, on the entire team including the FBI members....that used her constitutional right, to support a candidate, when off duty. And you all smeared her from here to high heaven, with absolutely no support what so ever that she was not being professional and doing her job, along with all the other people on this investigative team. She was not in charge of these other people on the team of investigators charged with the task.

But you all, and your beloved right wing media, made it out to be her and her alone that was leading this investigation, that was only out to save Obama's ass.... yadahyadahyadahyadah which is simply not true. Bravo again to the lovely, honest, moral and wonderful right wingers...

 

[The Rabbi]

proof or be branded a liar.

If you need proof I suggest you find another news outlet to watch.

Done with you as well.

Cyas

Your side's lovely propaganda, pegged her as THE investigator for the case.

You did not say that she was 1 of the many, chosen to be on the team to investigate. She was 1 person, on the entire team including the FBI members....that used her constitutional right, to support a candidate, when off duty. And you all smeared her from here to high heaven, with absolutely no support what so ever that she was not being professional and doing her job, along with all the other people on this investigative team. She was not in charge of these other people on the team of investigators charged with the task.

But you all, and your beloved right wing media, made it out to be her and her alone that was leading this investigation, that was only out to save Obama's ass.... yadahyadahyadahyadah which is simply not true. Bravo again to the lovely, honest, moral and wonderful right wingers...

Wow, are you fucking stupid. I don't mean garden variety careless or misinformed on one or two facts. I mean jaw dropping, knuckle dragging, grunting, farting stupid.
She was the head of the investigation. Dunce!
I can't stand any more of your idiotic posts. On to ignore. THis is enough.

 

[Oldstyle]

ok, fair enough. I suppose voting for an investigation is tantamount to Issa standing up and chirping like a bird about it. So you're watching the trial? What's the update? Republicans or Democrats haven't been advertising it to the media, so I imagine not much has come out of it.

Let me guess...because you haven't seen the hearing covered in the main stream media... therefore you've come to the conclusion that it's not happening? You might as well hold up a sign that says "Hello, I'm Siete! Don't ask me any questions about Obama scandals because I only watch programing that reinforces my political beliefs that Obama is the best President EVER!"

So did you want to tell me why 26 Democrats have supported the appointment of a Special Prosecutor to investigate the IRS if nobody "cares" about the IRS scandal? You didn't hear about that on MSNBC or Think Progress, I take it?

Hello, I'm Siete. Don't ask me any questions about the BS RW scandals they conjure up on a daily basis, They're idiots.


How did I do ?


So did you want to tell me why 26 Democrats have supported the appointment of a Special Prosecutor to investigate the IRS if nobody "cares" about the IRS scandal? You didn't hear about that on MSNBC or Think Progress, I take it?


to get answers for their committee other than the BS that comes from the Republicans ????

Well, gee...why would they NEED to get answers when the Obama Administration already investigated this and didn't find a "smidgeon of corruption"? Shouldn't the answers already be there? The truth is...those 26 Democrats know this whole thing stinks of a cover-up and they don't want to be seen as supporting it before they run for reelection next year.

 

[Oldstyle]

proof or be branded a liar.

If you need proof I suggest you find another news outlet to watch.

Done with you as well.

Cyas

Your side's lovely propaganda, pegged her as THE investigator for the case.

You did not say that she was 1 of the many, chosen to be on the team to investigate. She was 1 person, on the entire team including the FBI members....that used her constitutional right, to support a candidate, when off duty. And you all smeared her from here to high heaven, with absolutely no support what so ever that she was not being professional and doing her job, along with all the other people on this investigative team. She was not in charge of these other people on the team of investigators charged with the task.

But you all, and your beloved right wing media, made it out to be her and her alone that was leading this investigation, that was only out to save Obama's ass.... yadahyadahyadahyadah which is simply not true. Bravo again to the lovely, honest, moral and wonderful right wingers...

As usual...you don't seem to know a thing about the hearings or the investigations. The woman that was in charge of the Justice Department investigation (who was the big Obama supporter to the tune of a six thousand dollar contribution) never testified before the Congressional committee because the Justice Department decided it would be improper for her to do so while leading an ongoing investigation. Instead they sent Ms. O'connor who was one step lower on food chain. She's the one who couldn't even come up with the name of one of the people working under her supervision on the "alleged" investigation...but at least the Committee couldn't grill HER over contributions to Obama which I guess is why Holder sent her to the Hill. God knows it wasn't because she knew anything about anything because she pretty much demonstrated she didn't know diddly about diddly! In that, Care...she reminds me an awful lot of you!

 

[asterism]

During this period of the 7 hard drive crashes, how many hard drive crashes took place at IRS?

IF it was only 2 others that crashed, then it is very suspicious that the 7 all crashed....

but if 70 hard drives crashed during the same period at the irs, it becomes LESS suspicious.

As far as these employees including Learner not printing back ups to their own emails...

It is NOT suspicious IF none of the IRS employees were making paper copies of their own email...

But it would be suspicious for the 7, including Learner, if the rest of IRS employees were making copies of their own emails and these 7 were not....

IF there was back ups on servers for IRS employee emails, with the exception of the 7 people of interest , that would be suspicious...

However, if there were no emails from irs employees from this time period saved on servers, then the emails lost or rather missing from these 7 people of interest, are not out of the ordinary because no one's emails were saved on servers.

The onus is on the IRS to provide evidence exonerating itself since it has not complied with a lawful subpoena. The onus is not on the citizens to accept speculation from a partisan political supporter of this administration.

no, the onus is on the accuser of the supposed wrong doer, ALWAYS in this nation.

That standard has been met, the cases of the groups unfairly harmed. The investigation evolved and the IRS agreed to supply the information. Then "whoops," the information has been lost in a series of hard drive crashes. At the same time, the unfortunate event of high level IRS administrators did not follow IRS procedures for safeguarding records. Now they are claiming that there was nothing wrong here.

The onus is on them to prove it since they cannot comply with their own obligations and records that should be produced according to their own procedures.

The law, the government, has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, guilt...so to say....so, if these dog and pony, showmanship congress critters have enough evidence to charge someone with criminal behavior, they need to do it....mere speculation is meaningless and serves no purpose other than political posturing for the up coming elections.

I'm sure you trust the legal system enough to gladly encourage this mess to be tried in a court of law, right? Go ahead and demand that this be done.

you're right that this should not be political, AS YOUR SIDE of the Aisle chose to make it, from day 1!!!! I challenge you to prove otherwise!

Prove a negative?

so so sad too....when these congress critters chose to spend all this tax money, on all these hearings, and once again, they've got nothing but speculations....they could have saved a ton and spared us their grand standing in front of the cameras if they would have just given lois learner immunity....

I think it's good to know that the IRS, the EPA, and the FEC have high level people who are not stewards of the public trust but are in fact political operatives. That sort of exposure is healthy no matter which party controls the Oval Office.

BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, they benefit more politically, from the right wing media circus...is what they obviously decided.

I honestly don't see how you Obama haters can't see this? It's plain as day....

So breaking the law doesn't matter to you. Okie dokie.

So, many of us would like to get to the bottom of this, we just don't accept mere speculation as PROOF, like you guys are so willing to do....or without information missing that is needed to become more suspicious....like I had inquired in my post above...

You're so concerned with getting to the bottom of this that you are advocating against the only investigation being conducted. Yeah, ok, sure.

 

[Care4all]

If you need proof I suggest you find another news outlet to watch.

Done with you as well.

Cyas

Your side's lovely propaganda, pegged her as THE investigator for the case.

You did not say that she was 1 of the many, chosen to be on the team to investigate. She was 1 person, on the entire team including the FBI members....that used her constitutional right, to support a candidate, when off duty. And you all smeared her from here to high heaven, with absolutely no support what so ever that she was not being professional and doing her job, along with all the other people on this investigative team. She was not in charge of these other people on the team of investigators charged with the task.

But you all, and your beloved right wing media, made it out to be her and her alone that was leading this investigation, that was only out to save Obama's ass.... yadahyadahyadahyadah which is simply not true. Bravo again to the lovely, honest, moral and wonderful right wingers...

As usual...you don't seem to know a thing about the hearings or the investigations. The woman that was in charge of the Justice Department investigation (who was the big Obama supporter to the tune of a six thousand dollar contribution) never testified before the Congressional committee because the Justice Department decided it would be improper for her to do so while leading an ongoing investigation. Instead they sent Ms. O'connor who was one step lower on food chain. She's the one who couldn't even come up with the name of one of the people working under her supervision on the "alleged" investigation...but at least the Committee couldn't grill HER over contributions to Obama which I guess is why Holder sent her to the Hill. God knows it wasn't because she knew anything about anything because she pretty much demonstrated she didn't know diddly about diddly! In that, Care...she reminds me an awful lot of you!

Because there are not people below her on the investigation Oldstyle, from what was said in the hearing, the other investigation committee members are level or they are ABOVE HER.

It's against the law to antagonize her or interrogate or intimmidate a career employee about their political contributions....You do understand that, right? I mean, you can see why it would be against the rules and regs and law to do this to a career employee, can't you?

Yet, you still believe donating to a political campagin is going to make a career employee, all of a sudden commit a crime by covering up another supposed crime?

Reminds me of a quote about the eternal punishment for liars...

which is not that their lies won't be believed, but that they can't believe anyone else....

I am beginning to believe these accusations by these republicans on the committee stem from their own experience of what THEY inappropriately have done in the past, thus they can't believe anyone else would not be as dishonest as them....

Ya know what, your republican representatives need to get a new schtick , their 'pompous ass act' is growing old....for the sane among us.