BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Cong

[Siete]

Ah, yes...the Hilary Clinton defense!!! What difference does it really make!!!!

You might as well run a white flag up the pole, Siete...that's absolute pawnage...

not at all ... maybe YOU can find the Republican lawmakers that are taking sides with Issa and report their names, NOBODY else can.

you have the floor

Ah yes...another progressive that hasn't watched the hearings! Just from those...Trey Gowdy, Jim Jordon, Paul Ryan, Dave Camp, Sam Johnson, Kevin Brady, Charles Boustany, Peter Roskum, Adrian Smith, Tim Griffin, Jim Renacci, Todd Young, Tom Price, Vern Buchanan, Jim Gerlach, Lynn Jenkins, Diane Black, Devin Nunes, Tom Reed, Pat Tiberi, Aaron Shlock, Kenny Marchant, & Eric Paulson. That's just barely scratching the surface! I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that Republican lawmakers don't care about the IRS scandal, Siete but it's an amusing contention. How about you show me GOP lawmakers that have come out AGAINST the investigation of the IRS?

ok, fair enough. I suppose voting for an investigation is tantamount to Issa standing up and chirping like a bird about it. So you're watching the trial? What's the update? Republicans or Democrats haven't been advertising it to the media, so I imagine not much has come out of it.

 

[Jarhead]

jarhead, pain in the ass or not, the federal irs rules for saving emails DOES NOT STATE that employees must print all emails and save them.... the irs rules say that emails involving federal cases/documentation, should be printed and saved with the case files.... I know it ''plays'' better if it were true that ALL emails were suppose to be printed by all irs employees, but that simply is NOT the case....??? so why ya claiming such, or are you?????

No. That is the general REASON for saving it. Why do you continue to ignore what is on the IRS website.....



1.10.3.2.3 (07-08-2011)
Emails as Possible Federal Records



1.All federal employees and federal contractors are required by law to preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency. Records must be properly stored and preserved, available for retrieval and subject to appropriate approved disposition schedules.


2.The Federal Records Act applies to email records just as it does to records you create using other media. Emails are records when they are:


•Created or received in the transaction of agency business


•Appropriate for preservation as evidence of the government’s function and activities, or


•Valuable because of the information they contain





3.If you create or receive email messages during the course of your daily work, you are responsible for ensuring that you manage them properly. The Treasury Department’s current email policy requires emails and attachments that meet the definition of a federal record be added to the organization’s files by printing them (including the essential transmission data) and filing them with related paper records. If transmission and receipt data are not printed by the email system, annotate the paper copy. More information on IRS records management requirements is available at http://erc.web.irs.gov/Displayanswers/Question.asp?FolderID=4&CategoryID=5 or see the Records Management Handbook, IRM 1.15.1 http://publish.no.irs.gov/IRM/P01/PDF/31421A03.PD

Internal Revenue Manual - 1.10.3 Standards for Using Email

Notice...

emails are records when they are created or received in the transaction of business.

Care....they dont KNOW before hand if the email will be used in any type of court proceeding or federal case. They are to save them because down the road they may be needed.....LIKE NOW.

Why are you acting this way?

Okay, I can understand why they would need emails, except the personal ones saved....Jarhead.

In fact, I thought they would be saved, but not by the employee themselves by having to print a paper copy, not in this day and age...that just seems utterly ridiculous.....doesn't it to you as well?

I am still not certain we understand fully what these IRS rules are all about, when it comes to federal records, but for certain, I still felt there had to be a server, somewhere, or a back up somewhere, that emails and operational business would be stored at least for 3-7 years.

And what do you think this means, this comes from the link of rules you supplied above:

Don’t Slow Down the System

1. To avoid slowing down transmission of information:
   • Use Arial or another simple font on a plain background.
   • Do not use animation, fancy background, "wallpapers," borders, graphics and photographs as part of your "stationery" or message format. Exceptions will only be allowed for special IRS Commissioner initiatives.
   • Refrain from sending large attachments to work groups or audiences. Remember every email message and any attachments, embedded graphics and photographs require a copy for each Exchange server store where each recipient’s mailbox resides. Instead store the document on an IRS public web archive or SharePoint repository and insert a hyperlink into the message. Ensure the permissions allow access by all recipients prior to sending the message.

How do you interpret what I bolded? this whole section of the IRS rules and regs is basically telling them to be careful with large documents and larger groups that they send emails to because it takes up too much space on all of their individual servers...ISN'T IT?

so what's THAT all about? sounds like there are other places to search for these supposed lost emails, doesn't it? [MENTION=22181]Jarhead[/MENTION]

Here is the best way to explain it....and before I do I made it clear several times that we are referring to emails composed or received regarding normal business....not "lunch plans" emails....

Any business email received or composed by an IRS employee is a POSSIBLE Federal record....it is not a federal record when it is received or written....but it has the potential to be. Therefore, the IRS instructs their employees to print all emails as a safeguard.

An email will become a federal record when the following happens..

1) The NARA deems it to have historical value
2) A federal judge allows it as evidence in his or her court

Now, seeing as no one knows ahead of time whether an email may be deemed historical or admitted in a federal court as evidence....ALL business emails must be treated as potential federal records and be printed and filed.

Does it seem redundant? Yes....on the outside.....but is it?

No.

Why?

Because if it was we wouldn't have the issue we have today of "emails nowhere to be found".

Look...you can blame Issa...you can blame the tea party.....doesn't really matter.

The blame is squarely on the IRS.

Safeguards were in place to ensure all emails can be presented as a federal record and it seems all procedures were tossed to the wind...laws broken such as the Federal Record Act....and now we have a situation where the IRS is saying they can not be found and congress is unable to assist Americans who believe the IRS mistreated them.

There is a reason for the Federal Records Act. It prevents a government agency from saying "sorry, we have no evidence to prove our guilt...so leave us alone and let us continue doing whatever the heck we want to"

 

[Jarhead]

jarhead, pain in the ass or not, the federal irs rules for saving emails DOES NOT STATE that employees must print all emails and save them.... the irs rules say that emails involving federal cases/documentation, should be printed and saved with the case files.... I know it ''plays'' better if it were true that ALL emails were suppose to be printed by all irs employees, but that simply is NOT the case....??? so why ya claiming such, or are you?????

No. That is the general REASON for saving it. Why do you continue to ignore what is on the IRS website.....



1.10.3.2.3 (07-08-2011)
Emails as Possible Federal Records



1.All federal employees and federal contractors are required by law to preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency. Records must be properly stored and preserved, available for retrieval and subject to appropriate approved disposition schedules.


2.The Federal Records Act applies to email records just as it does to records you create using other media. Emails are records when they are:


•Created or received in the transaction of agency business


•Appropriate for preservation as evidence of the government’s function and activities, or


•Valuable because of the information they contain





3.If you create or receive email messages during the course of your daily work, you are responsible for ensuring that you manage them properly. The Treasury Department’s current email policy requires emails and attachments that meet the definition of a federal record be added to the organization’s files by printing them (including the essential transmission data) and filing them with related paper records. If transmission and receipt data are not printed by the email system, annotate the paper copy. More information on IRS records management requirements is available at http://erc.web.irs.gov/Displayanswers/Question.asp?FolderID=4&CategoryID=5 or see the Records Management Handbook, IRM 1.15.1 http://publish.no.irs.gov/IRM/P01/PDF/31421A03.PD

Internal Revenue Manual - 1.10.3 Standards for Using Email

Notice...

emails are records when they are created or received in the transaction of business.

Care....they dont KNOW before hand if the email will be used in any type of court proceeding or federal case. They are to save them because down the road they may be needed.....LIKE NOW.

Why are you acting this way?

Okay, I can understand why they would need emails, except the personal ones saved....Jarhead.

In fact, I thought they would be saved, but not by the employee themselves by having to print a paper copy, not in this day and age...that just seems utterly ridiculous.....doesn't it to you as well?

I am still not certain we understand fully what these IRS rules are all about, when it comes to federal records, but for certain, I still felt there had to be a server, somewhere, or a back up somewhere, that emails and operational business would be stored at least for 3-7 years.

And what do you think this means, this comes from the link of rules you supplied above:

Don’t Slow Down the System

1. To avoid slowing down transmission of information:
   • Use Arial or another simple font on a plain background.
   • Do not use animation, fancy background, "wallpapers," borders, graphics and photographs as part of your "stationery" or message format. Exceptions will only be allowed for special IRS Commissioner initiatives.
   • Refrain from sending large attachments to work groups or audiences. Remember every email message and any attachments, embedded graphics and photographs require a copy for each Exchange server store where each recipient’s mailbox resides. Instead store the document on an IRS public web archive or SharePoint repository and insert a hyperlink into the message. Ensure the permissions allow access by all recipients prior to sending the message.

How do you interpret what I bolded? this whole section of the IRS rules and regs is basically telling them to be careful with large documents and larger groups that they send emails to because it takes up too much space on all of their individual servers...ISN'T IT?

so what's THAT all about? sounds like there are other places to search for these supposed lost emails, doesn't it? [MENTION=22181]Jarhead[/MENTION]

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

 

[Oldstyle]

not at all ... maybe YOU can find the Republican lawmakers that are taking sides with Issa and report their names, NOBODY else can.

you have the floor

Ah yes...another progressive that hasn't watched the hearings! Just from those...Trey Gowdy, Jim Jordon, Paul Ryan, Dave Camp, Sam Johnson, Kevin Brady, Charles Boustany, Peter Roskum, Adrian Smith, Tim Griffin, Jim Renacci, Todd Young, Tom Price, Vern Buchanan, Jim Gerlach, Lynn Jenkins, Diane Black, Devin Nunes, Tom Reed, Pat Tiberi, Aaron Shlock, Kenny Marchant, & Eric Paulson. That's just barely scratching the surface! I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that Republican lawmakers don't care about the IRS scandal, Siete but it's an amusing contention. How about you show me GOP lawmakers that have come out AGAINST the investigation of the IRS?

ok, fair enough. I suppose voting for an investigation is tantamount to Issa standing up and chirping like a bird about it. So you're watching the trial? What's the update? Republicans or Democrats haven't been advertising it to the media, so I imagine not much has come out of it.

Let me guess...because you haven't seen the hearing covered in the main stream media... therefore you've come to the conclusion that it's not happening? You might as well hold up a sign that says "Hello, I'm Siete! Don't ask me any questions about Obama scandals because I only watch programing that reinforces my political beliefs that Obama is the best President EVER!"

So did you want to tell me why 26 Democrats have supported the appointment of a Special Prosecutor to investigate the IRS if nobody "cares" about the IRS scandal? You didn't hear about that on MSNBC or Think Progress, I take it?

 

[Oldstyle]

No. That is the general REASON for saving it. Why do you continue to ignore what is on the IRS website.....



1.10.3.2.3 (07-08-2011)
Emails as Possible Federal Records



1.All federal employees and federal contractors are required by law to preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency. Records must be properly stored and preserved, available for retrieval and subject to appropriate approved disposition schedules.


2.The Federal Records Act applies to email records just as it does to records you create using other media. Emails are records when they are:


•Created or received in the transaction of agency business


•Appropriate for preservation as evidence of the government’s function and activities, or


•Valuable because of the information they contain





3.If you create or receive email messages during the course of your daily work, you are responsible for ensuring that you manage them properly. The Treasury Department’s current email policy requires emails and attachments that meet the definition of a federal record be added to the organization’s files by printing them (including the essential transmission data) and filing them with related paper records. If transmission and receipt data are not printed by the email system, annotate the paper copy. More information on IRS records management requirements is available at http://erc.web.irs.gov/Displayanswers/Question.asp?FolderID=4&CategoryID=5 or see the Records Management Handbook, IRM 1.15.1 http://publish.no.irs.gov/IRM/P01/PDF/31421A03.PD

Internal Revenue Manual - 1.10.3 Standards for Using Email

Notice...

emails are records when they are created or received in the transaction of business.

Care....they dont KNOW before hand if the email will be used in any type of court proceeding or federal case. They are to save them because down the road they may be needed.....LIKE NOW.

Why are you acting this way?

Okay, I can understand why they would need emails, except the personal ones saved....Jarhead.

In fact, I thought they would be saved, but not by the employee themselves by having to print a paper copy, not in this day and age...that just seems utterly ridiculous.....doesn't it to you as well?

I am still not certain we understand fully what these IRS rules are all about, when it comes to federal records, but for certain, I still felt there had to be a server, somewhere, or a back up somewhere, that emails and operational business would be stored at least for 3-7 years.

And what do you think this means, this comes from the link of rules you supplied above:

Don’t Slow Down the System

1. To avoid slowing down transmission of information:
   • Use Arial or another simple font on a plain background.
   • Do not use animation, fancy background, "wallpapers," borders, graphics and photographs as part of your "stationery" or message format. Exceptions will only be allowed for special IRS Commissioner initiatives.
   • Refrain from sending large attachments to work groups or audiences. Remember every email message and any attachments, embedded graphics and photographs require a copy for each Exchange server store where each recipient’s mailbox resides. Instead store the document on an IRS public web archive or SharePoint repository and insert a hyperlink into the message. Ensure the permissions allow access by all recipients prior to sending the message.

How do you interpret what I bolded? this whole section of the IRS rules and regs is basically telling them to be careful with large documents and larger groups that they send emails to because it takes up too much space on all of their individual servers...ISN'T IT?

so what's THAT all about? sounds like there are other places to search for these supposed lost emails, doesn't it? [MENTION=22181]Jarhead[/MENTION]

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

You want to watch a telling piece of video, see if you can find the part of the hearing where she was asked to name any of the people who worked under her doing this investigation! She spent six months supposedly doing an investigation yet she couldn't remember anyone's name that was part of the investigation other than the people that SHE reported to! Think about that! You spend six MONTHS leading an investigation but you don't know the name of anyone working under you? How is that possible unless you really didn't investigate ANYTHING and just went through the motions?

 

[onecut39]

BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Congress (VIDEO) - Allen West Republic


Obstruction of Justice here we come.. Things just got very interesting.

Allen West? This the same guy who says he has a higher security clearance than the President/CinC?

Yeah, that Allen west. The same one who had to quit before they court martialed his ass.

 

[Jarhead]

Okay, I can understand why they would need emails, except the personal ones saved....Jarhead.

In fact, I thought they would be saved, but not by the employee themselves by having to print a paper copy, not in this day and age...that just seems utterly ridiculous.....doesn't it to you as well?

I am still not certain we understand fully what these IRS rules are all about, when it comes to federal records, but for certain, I still felt there had to be a server, somewhere, or a back up somewhere, that emails and operational business would be stored at least for 3-7 years.

And what do you think this means, this comes from the link of rules you supplied above:

How do you interpret what I bolded? this whole section of the IRS rules and regs is basically telling them to be careful with large documents and larger groups that they send emails to because it takes up too much space on all of their individual servers...ISN'T IT?

so what's THAT all about? sounds like there are other places to search for these supposed lost emails, doesn't it? [MENTION=22181]Jarhead[/MENTION]

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

You want to watch a telling piece of video, see if you can find the part of the hearing where she was asked to name any of the people who worked under her doing this investigation! She spent six months supposedly doing an investigation yet she couldn't remember anyone's name that was part of the investigation other than the people that SHE reported to! Think about that! You spend six MONTHS leading an investigation but you don't know the name of anyone working under you? How is that possible unless you really didn't investigate ANYTHING and just went through the motions?

Yes. I saw that. Unbelievable.

 

[Jarhead]

not at all ... maybe YOU can find the Republican lawmakers that are taking sides with Issa and report their names, NOBODY else can.

you have the floor

Ah yes...another progressive that hasn't watched the hearings! Just from those...Trey Gowdy, Jim Jordon, Paul Ryan, Dave Camp, Sam Johnson, Kevin Brady, Charles Boustany, Peter Roskum, Adrian Smith, Tim Griffin, Jim Renacci, Todd Young, Tom Price, Vern Buchanan, Jim Gerlach, Lynn Jenkins, Diane Black, Devin Nunes, Tom Reed, Pat Tiberi, Aaron Shlock, Kenny Marchant, & Eric Paulson. That's just barely scratching the surface! I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that Republican lawmakers don't care about the IRS scandal, Siete but it's an amusing contention. How about you show me GOP lawmakers that have come out AGAINST the investigation of the IRS?

ok, fair enough. I suppose voting for an investigation is tantamount to Issa standing up and chirping like a bird about it. So you're watching the trial? What's the update? Republicans or Democrats haven't been advertising it to the media, so I imagine not much has come out of it.

Congress isn't supposed to have to advertise it to the media. The media is supposed to hound them about it.

Fox News is.

Seems YOUR media doesn't think it is important for you to know about it.

 

[Jarhead]

BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Congress (VIDEO) - Allen West Republic


Obstruction of Justice here we come.. Things just got very interesting.

Allen West? This the same guy who says he has a higher security clearance than the President/CinC?

Yeah, that Allen west. The same one who had to quit before they court martialed his ass.

Never mind that the e-mails are missing...never mind that there are no back ups....never mind that the Federal Records Act laws were broken and no paper copies printed. Never mind that the NARA was unaware of the crashed hard drive which, by law, they are to be informed immediately.

Never mind that a government agency has received hundreds of complaints and because they did not follow the law and ensure all records are saved, congress cant assist those that may have been wronged.

Lets make it all about Alan West.

Pathetic.

 

[depotoo]

not at all ... maybe YOU can find the Republican lawmakers that are taking sides with Issa and report their names, NOBODY else can.

you have the floor

Ah yes...another progressive that hasn't watched the hearings! Just from those...Trey Gowdy, Jim Jordon, Paul Ryan, Dave Camp, Sam Johnson, Kevin Brady, Charles Boustany, Peter Roskum, Adrian Smith, Tim Griffin, Jim Renacci, Todd Young, Tom Price, Vern Buchanan, Jim Gerlach, Lynn Jenkins, Diane Black, Devin Nunes, Tom Reed, Pat Tiberi, Aaron Shlock, Kenny Marchant, & Eric Paulson. That's just barely scratching the surface! I don't know how you've come to the conclusion that Republican lawmakers don't care about the IRS scandal, Siete but it's an amusing contention. How about you show me GOP lawmakers that have come out AGAINST the investigation of the IRS?

ok, fair enough. I suppose voting for an investigation is tantamount to Issa standing up and chirping like a bird about it. So you're watching the trial? What's the update? Republicans or Democrats haven't been advertising it to the media, so I imagine not much has come out of it.

Being a lying smart ass will not change the facts. If you really wanted to know the truth you would hwve been looking at the polls that show most Americans believe this is a real scandal. You are actually in the minority. You see, they have been getting the information somewhere, so you can, too. Want to find out what the 71-76% have heard to come to that conclusion? Use those fingers for walking, rather than being a blow hard. Oh, and over 63% of Democrats also want this to be investigated.

 

[Care4all]

No. That is the general REASON for saving it. Why do you continue to ignore what is on the IRS website.....



1.10.3.2.3 (07-08-2011)
Emails as Possible Federal Records



1.All federal employees and federal contractors are required by law to preserve records containing adequate and proper documentation of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, and essential transactions of the agency. Records must be properly stored and preserved, available for retrieval and subject to appropriate approved disposition schedules.


2.The Federal Records Act applies to email records just as it does to records you create using other media. Emails are records when they are:


•Created or received in the transaction of agency business


•Appropriate for preservation as evidence of the government’s function and activities, or


•Valuable because of the information they contain





3.If you create or receive email messages during the course of your daily work, you are responsible for ensuring that you manage them properly. The Treasury Department’s current email policy requires emails and attachments that meet the definition of a federal record be added to the organization’s files by printing them (including the essential transmission data) and filing them with related paper records. If transmission and receipt data are not printed by the email system, annotate the paper copy. More information on IRS records management requirements is available at http://erc.web.irs.gov/Displayanswers/Question.asp?FolderID=4&CategoryID=5 or see the Records Management Handbook, IRM 1.15.1 http://publish.no.irs.gov/IRM/P01/PDF/31421A03.PD

Internal Revenue Manual - 1.10.3 Standards for Using Email

Notice...

emails are records when they are created or received in the transaction of business.

Care....they dont KNOW before hand if the email will be used in any type of court proceeding or federal case. They are to save them because down the road they may be needed.....LIKE NOW.

Why are you acting this way?

Okay, I can understand why they would need emails, except the personal ones saved....Jarhead.

In fact, I thought they would be saved, but not by the employee themselves by having to print a paper copy, not in this day and age...that just seems utterly ridiculous.....doesn't it to you as well?

I am still not certain we understand fully what these IRS rules are all about, when it comes to federal records, but for certain, I still felt there had to be a server, somewhere, or a back up somewhere, that emails and operational business would be stored at least for 3-7 years.

And what do you think this means, this comes from the link of rules you supplied above:

Don’t Slow Down the System

1. To avoid slowing down transmission of information:
   • Use Arial or another simple font on a plain background.
   • Do not use animation, fancy background, "wallpapers," borders, graphics and photographs as part of your "stationery" or message format. Exceptions will only be allowed for special IRS Commissioner initiatives.
   • Refrain from sending large attachments to work groups or audiences. Remember every email message and any attachments, embedded graphics and photographs require a copy for each Exchange server store where each recipient’s mailbox resides. Instead store the document on an IRS public web archive or SharePoint repository and insert a hyperlink into the message. Ensure the permissions allow access by all recipients prior to sending the message.

How do you interpret what I bolded? this whole section of the IRS rules and regs is basically telling them to be careful with large documents and larger groups that they send emails to because it takes up too much space on all of their individual servers...ISN'T IT?

so what's THAT all about? sounds like there are other places to search for these supposed lost emails, doesn't it? @Jarhead

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

I guess I just don't share your conclusion that congress can't look for them or get them....I don't comprehend those words of "can not"....never have in my life and never will....

If I were one of these congress critters investigating, and did the research, as I have done here, and I knew there were copies on the dahdadah servers for all emails according to the rules and regs memo of the IRS, then I would tell this to the IRS dudes in the meeting and show them their rules and regs, and subpena those servers....

No way Jose' would I throw up my hands and say "Wahhhhh, I can't get to them"....

so either the servers with back ups don't exist (which is unlikely imo), or the Congress Critters truly do not want to get to the bottom of this, at least not in any kind of timely manner....and if this is the case, that would be for political posturing for the upcoming election.

BTW, what do they expect to find in the hard drive crashed emails, that would not have been continued in the emails after that point if it involved specific cases?

What do you think is in these hard drive crashed emails and is there any evidence, other than the email's evaporating, that supports your speculations of what is in them? Any other outside evidence?

Do you think Learner was being told by Obama to do this to the Tea Party groups and this would have shown up in the emails???

Or conversations between these people conniving to break the law for political purposes only?

What is it that you are looking for, to show up in Learner's emails? What am I missing as far as evidence so far?

 

[depotoo]

BREAKING: E-mails Show Lois Lerner Intentionally Sought to Hide Information from Congress (VIDEO) - Allen West Republic


Obstruction of Justice here we come.. Things just got very interesting.

Allen West? This the same guy who says he has a higher security clearance than the President/CinC?

Yeah, that Allen west. The same one who had to quit before they court martialed his ass.

Because he shot off a gun near a terrorist's ear to get information that saved some troops lives, against regulations? I think many will give him a pass on that. Now, care to actually fault the info instead of him?

 

[The Rabbi]

Okay, I can understand why they would need emails, except the personal ones saved....Jarhead.

In fact, I thought they would be saved, but not by the employee themselves by having to print a paper copy, not in this day and age...that just seems utterly ridiculous.....doesn't it to you as well?

I am still not certain we understand fully what these IRS rules are all about, when it comes to federal records, but for certain, I still felt there had to be a server, somewhere, or a back up somewhere, that emails and operational business would be stored at least for 3-7 years.

And what do you think this means, this comes from the link of rules you supplied above:

How do you interpret what I bolded? this whole section of the IRS rules and regs is basically telling them to be careful with large documents and larger groups that they send emails to because it takes up too much space on all of their individual servers...ISN'T IT?

so what's THAT all about? sounds like there are other places to search for these supposed lost emails, doesn't it? @Jarhead

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

I guess I just don't share you conclusion that congress can't look for them or get them....I don't comprehend those words of "can not"....never have in my life and never will....

If I were one of these congress critters investigating, and did the research, as I have done here, and I knew there were copies on the dahdadah servers for all emails according to the rules and regs memo of the IRS, then I would tell this to the IRS dudes in the meeting and show them their rules and regs, and subpena those servers....

No way Jose' would I throw up my hands and say "Wahhhhh, I can't get to them"....

so either the servers with back ups don't exist (which is unlikely imo), or the Congress Critters truly do not want to get to the bottom of this, at least not in any kind of timely manner....and if this is the case, that would be for political posturing for the upcoming election.

BTW, what do they expect to find in the hard drive crashed emails, that would not have been continued in the emails after that point if it involved specific cases?

What do you think is in these hard drive crashed emails and is there any evidence, other than the email's evaporating, that supports your speculations of what is in them? Any other outside evidence?

Do you think Learner was being told by Obama to do this to the Tea Party groups and this would have shown up in the emails???

Or conversations between these people conniving to break the law for political purposes only?

What is it that you are looking for, to show up in Learner's emails? What am I missing as far as evidence so far?

SO you would subpoena the IRS to produce the emails however they had to?
Um, what do you think the House has done? What do you think the iRS has done in response? Why do you think this is an issue now?

What is in the emails is direct communication between Democrats and the IRS directing the IRS in specific investigations and instructions for handling groups applying for status, with the IRS responding on what they were doing. That is illegal, unethical and would land people in jail, including staffers and Congressmen themselves. That is why Lerner will take the heat for a while as she has been told if she squeals her pension and benefits will be forfeit. That's all a guess of course, but a guess based on what we know right now.
The question is, Why aren't you at all concerned? Why is it not suspicious that the president could declaire not a smidgen of corruption when their investigators did a whitewash over the whole thing?

 

[depotoo]

Okay, I can understand why they would need emails, except the personal ones saved....Jarhead.

In fact, I thought they would be saved, but not by the employee themselves by having to print a paper copy, not in this day and age...that just seems utterly ridiculous.....doesn't it to you as well?

I am still not certain we understand fully what these IRS rules are all about, when it comes to federal records, but for certain, I still felt there had to be a server, somewhere, or a back up somewhere, that emails and operational business would be stored at least for 3-7 years.

And what do you think this means, this comes from the link of rules you supplied above:

How do you interpret what I bolded? this whole section of the IRS rules and regs is basically telling them to be careful with large documents and larger groups that they send emails to because it takes up too much space on all of their individual servers...ISN'T IT?

so what's THAT all about? sounds like there are other places to search for these supposed lost emails, doesn't it? @Jarhead

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

I guess I just don't share your conclusion that congress can't look for them or get them....I don't comprehend those words of "can not"....never have in my life and never will....

If I were one of these congress critters investigating, and did the research, as I have done here, and I knew there were copies on the dahdadah servers for all emails according to the rules and regs memo of the IRS, then I would tell this to the IRS dudes in the meeting and show them their rules and regs, and subpena those servers....

No way Jose' would I throw up my hands and say "Wahhhhh, I can't get to them"....

so either the servers with back ups don't exist (which is unlikely imo), or the Congress Critters truly do not want to get to the bottom of this, at least not in any kind of timely manner....and if this is the case, that would be for political posturing for the upcoming election.

BTW, what do they expect to find in the hard drive crashed emails, that would not have been continued in the emails after that point if it involved specific cases?

What do you think is in these hard drive crashed emails and is there any evidence, other than the email's evaporating, that supports your speculations of what is in them? Any other outside evidence?

Do you think Learner was being told by Obama to do this to the Tea Party groups and this would have shown up in the emails???

Or conversations between these people conniving to break the law for political purposes only?

What is it that you are looking for, to show up in Learner's emails? What am I missing as far as evidence so far?

So, according to you, everything is just peachy king, and it should just be dropped. And if you someday get harassed or audited for your political beliefs, by the Irs, who admitted they were targeting your political group, and releasing your confidential information, we can assume you will say "Oh, well? Not worth investigating, just leave it be, I'll get over the harm they did to me and others."

 

[Care4all]

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

I guess I just don't share your conclusion that congress can't look for them or get them....I don't comprehend those words of "can not"....never have in my life and never will....

If I were one of these congress critters investigating, and did the research, as I have done here, and I knew there were copies on the dahdadah servers for all emails according to the rules and regs memo of the IRS, then I would tell this to the IRS dudes in the meeting and show them their rules and regs, and subpena those servers....

No way Jose' would I throw up my hands and say "Wahhhhh, I can't get to them"....

so either the servers with back ups don't exist (which is unlikely imo), or the Congress Critters truly do not want to get to the bottom of this, at least not in any kind of timely manner....and if this is the case, that would be for political posturing for the upcoming election.

BTW, what do they expect to find in the hard drive crashed emails, that would not have been continued in the emails after that point if it involved specific cases?

What do you think is in these hard drive crashed emails and is there any evidence, other than the email's evaporating, that supports your speculations of what is in them? Any other outside evidence?

Do you think Learner was being told by Obama to do this to the Tea Party groups and this would have shown up in the emails???

Or conversations between these people conniving to break the law for political purposes only?

What is it that you are looking for, to show up in Learner's emails? What am I missing as far as evidence so far?

So, according to you, everything is just peachy king, and it should just be dropped. And if you someday get harassed or audited for your political beliefs, by the Irs, who admitted they were targeting your political group, and releasing your confidential information, we can assume you will say "Oh, well? Not worth investigating, just leave it be, I'll get over the harm they did to me and others."

No, I said quite the opposite, I said congress should subpena the email banked servers, NOW....not throw up their hands and say they can't get to them....and congress should grant Learner Immunity and get her to spill the beans, NOW.

However, it appears likely, that congress critters are only concerned with dragging this out and speculating and pontificating on supposed crimes done... as long as they can, so to benefit from it, in the upcoming election, INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY GETTING TO THE BOTTOM of this, in a professional and expedited manner.

 

[depotoo]

Examining the Justice Department's Response to the IRS Targeting Scandal | Committee on Oversight & Government Reform

For those that care 4 all, rather than care 4 their own, hearing now

 

[The Rabbi]

I guess I just don't share your conclusion that congress can't look for them or get them....I don't comprehend those words of "can not"....never have in my life and never will....

If I were one of these congress critters investigating, and did the research, as I have done here, and I knew there were copies on the dahdadah servers for all emails according to the rules and regs memo of the IRS, then I would tell this to the IRS dudes in the meeting and show them their rules and regs, and subpena those servers....

No way Jose' would I throw up my hands and say "Wahhhhh, I can't get to them"....

so either the servers with back ups don't exist (which is unlikely imo), or the Congress Critters truly do not want to get to the bottom of this, at least not in any kind of timely manner....and if this is the case, that would be for political posturing for the upcoming election.

BTW, what do they expect to find in the hard drive crashed emails, that would not have been continued in the emails after that point if it involved specific cases?

What do you think is in these hard drive crashed emails and is there any evidence, other than the email's evaporating, that supports your speculations of what is in them? Any other outside evidence?

Do you think Learner was being told by Obama to do this to the Tea Party groups and this would have shown up in the emails???

Or conversations between these people conniving to break the law for political purposes only?

What is it that you are looking for, to show up in Learner's emails? What am I missing as far as evidence so far?

So, according to you, everything is just peachy king, and it should just be dropped. And if you someday get harassed or audited for your political beliefs, by the Irs, who admitted they were targeting your political group, and releasing your confidential information, we can assume you will say "Oh, well? Not worth investigating, just leave it be, I'll get over the harm they did to me and others."

No, I said quite the opposite, I said congress should subpena the email banked servers, NOW....not throw up their hands and say they can't get to them....and congress should grant Learner Immunity and get her to spill the beans, NOW.

However, it appears likely, that congress critters are only concerned with dragging this out and speculating and pontificating on supposed crimes done... as long as they can, so to benefit from it, in the upcoming election, INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY GETTING TO THE BOTTOM of this, in a professional and expedited manner.

Um, COngress did subpoena the emails. That's the issue.
Lerner is a criminal. That's why they wont give her immunity.

What would suggest to get to the bottom of it in a professional and expedited manner?

 

[depotoo]

I guess I just don't share your conclusion that congress can't look for them or get them....I don't comprehend those words of "can not"....never have in my life and never will....

If I were one of these congress critters investigating, and did the research, as I have done here, and I knew there were copies on the dahdadah servers for all emails according to the rules and regs memo of the IRS, then I would tell this to the IRS dudes in the meeting and show them their rules and regs, and subpena those servers....

No way Jose' would I throw up my hands and say "Wahhhhh, I can't get to them"....

so either the servers with back ups don't exist (which is unlikely imo), or the Congress Critters truly do not want to get to the bottom of this, at least not in any kind of timely manner....and if this is the case, that would be for political posturing for the upcoming election.

BTW, what do they expect to find in the hard drive crashed emails, that would not have been continued in the emails after that point if it involved specific cases?

What do you think is in these hard drive crashed emails and is there any evidence, other than the email's evaporating, that supports your speculations of what is in them? Any other outside evidence?

Do you think Learner was being told by Obama to do this to the Tea Party groups and this would have shown up in the emails???

Or conversations between these people conniving to break the law for political purposes only?

What is it that you are looking for, to show up in Learner's emails? What am I missing as far as evidence so far?

So, according to you, everything is just peachy king, and it should just be dropped. And if you someday get harassed or audited for your political beliefs, by the Irs, who admitted they were targeting your political group, and releasing your confidential information, we can assume you will say "Oh, well? Not worth investigating, just leave it be, I'll get over the harm they did to me and others."

No, I said quite the opposite, I said congress should subpena the email banked servers, NOW....not throw up their hands and say they can't get to them....and congress should grant Learner Immunity and get her to spill the beans, NOW.

However, it appears likely, that congress critters are only concerned with dragging this out and speculating and pontificating on supposed crimes done... as long as they can, so to benefit from it, in the upcoming election, INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY GETTING TO THE BOTTOM of this, in a professional and expedited manner.

why do you think they are frustrated? Their subpoenas have been ignored. And they say they overwrote the server every 6 months. Against nara policy and federal records law. And the doj refuses to help. Beyond showing up with guns to confiscate them, what do you want them to do?

 

[Jarhead]

Okay, I can understand why they would need emails, except the personal ones saved....Jarhead.

In fact, I thought they would be saved, but not by the employee themselves by having to print a paper copy, not in this day and age...that just seems utterly ridiculous.....doesn't it to you as well?

I am still not certain we understand fully what these IRS rules are all about, when it comes to federal records, but for certain, I still felt there had to be a server, somewhere, or a back up somewhere, that emails and operational business would be stored at least for 3-7 years.

And what do you think this means, this comes from the link of rules you supplied above:

How do you interpret what I bolded? this whole section of the IRS rules and regs is basically telling them to be careful with large documents and larger groups that they send emails to because it takes up too much space on all of their individual servers...ISN'T IT?

so what's THAT all about? sounds like there are other places to search for these supposed lost emails, doesn't it? @Jarhead

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

I guess I just don't share your conclusion that congress can't look for them or get them....I don't comprehend those words of "can not"....never have in my life and never will....

If I were one of these congress critters investigating, and did the research, as I have done here, and I knew there were copies on the dahdadah servers for all emails according to the rules and regs memo of the IRS, then I would tell this to the IRS dudes in the meeting and show them their rules and regs, and subpena those servers....

No way Jose' would I throw up my hands and say "Wahhhhh, I can't get to them"....

so either the servers with back ups don't exist (which is unlikely imo), or the Congress Critters truly do not want to get to the bottom of this, at least not in any kind of timely manner....and if this is the case, that would be for political posturing for the upcoming election.

BTW, what do they expect to find in the hard drive crashed emails, that would not have been continued in the emails after that point if it involved specific cases?

What do you think is in these hard drive crashed emails and is there any evidence, other than the email's evaporating, that supports your speculations of what is in them? Any other outside evidence?

Do you think Learner was being told by Obama to do this to the Tea Party groups and this would have shown up in the emails???

Or conversations between these people conniving to break the law for political purposes only?

What is it that you are looking for, to show up in Learner's emails? What am I missing as far as evidence so far?

Excuse me.....those congress critters did exactly that.

They can only subpoena. They can not enter the IRS and take things. They can not charge anyone with obstruction.

I have been watching the hearings. They continually ask for everything and they get nothing.

You have your mind made up......and that is fine.

I spent God knows how much time showing you how you were misreading the law...because your partisan glasses wouldn't allow you to see what is black and white. You did everything in your power to show me how I was wrong with the law...and I finally had to lay it out for you. And once you had nothing left to argue, you started to talk about how silly the law is.

So lets see how it pans out. No more of this. Waste of time.

 

[The Rabbi]

Congress asked for the emails.

The IRS said they have been lost.

Lets be real......they can be found. But congress cant look for them. Only the IRS or a DoJ investigator. Doesn't seem either one is interested in finding them.

SO I again ask.....how did the investigator for the President deem no crime was committed when she did not have access to any emails of the subject of the investigation for the 2 years she was investigating?

Shouldn't the result of the investigation have been "inconclusive due to missing federal records"?

I guess I just don't share your conclusion that congress can't look for them or get them....I don't comprehend those words of "can not"....never have in my life and never will....

If I were one of these congress critters investigating, and did the research, as I have done here, and I knew there were copies on the dahdadah servers for all emails according to the rules and regs memo of the IRS, then I would tell this to the IRS dudes in the meeting and show them their rules and regs, and subpena those servers....

No way Jose' would I throw up my hands and say "Wahhhhh, I can't get to them"....

so either the servers with back ups don't exist (which is unlikely imo), or the Congress Critters truly do not want to get to the bottom of this, at least not in any kind of timely manner....and if this is the case, that would be for political posturing for the upcoming election.

BTW, what do they expect to find in the hard drive crashed emails, that would not have been continued in the emails after that point if it involved specific cases?

What do you think is in these hard drive crashed emails and is there any evidence, other than the email's evaporating, that supports your speculations of what is in them? Any other outside evidence?

Do you think Learner was being told by Obama to do this to the Tea Party groups and this would have shown up in the emails???

Or conversations between these people conniving to break the law for political purposes only?

What is it that you are looking for, to show up in Learner's emails? What am I missing as far as evidence so far?

Excuse me.....those congress critters did exactly that.

They can only subpoena. They can not enter the IRS and take things. They can not charge anyone with obstruction.

I have been watching the hearings. They continually ask for everything and they get nothing.

You have your mind made up......and that is fine.

I spent God knows how much time showing you how you were misreading the law...because your partisan glasses wouldn't allow you to see what is black and white. You did everything in your power to show me how I was wrong with the law...and I finally had to lay it out for you. And once you had nothing left to argue, you started to talk about how silly the law is.

So lets see how it pans out. No more of this. Waste of time.

I told you this pages ago. You think Care and the others are capable of reasoned rational argument. It isnt true. They lie, obfuscate, move goalposts,and throw out half truths because the truth is both obvious and caustic to their beliefs.
But the truth with these jokers is they are fine with Democrats suppressing conservatives because it's their team winning.