BREAKING! Robert Mueller Requests Postponement of Gen. Michael Flynn’s Sentencing

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Wait...

I didn't catch this before - did you just claim to be a lawyer?

Never claim to be a lawyer on USMB!



You are an evening custodial technician.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Problem is if the whole investigation was tainted....everything gets thrown out.
The point I made a couple of months ago was the FBI went to the FISA court and committed perjury to get a warrant.

It's not quite that simple, actually.

If the charges against Flynn was based on illegally obtained evidence, he could appeal his guilty plea, but only if his lawyers had previously filed motions to suppress said evidence which were denied. I'm not aware of Flynn's lawyers challenging the evidence against him, but it's possible that it happened.

As for your fantasies of "perjury" to get the warrant - what are you basing that on, other than desire?

Apparently your "Law & Order" marathon law education is lacking.

Go back to school and learn it the right way.

I am at this moment, in Law School, fuckwit.

Being the night janitor and sweeping up the place does not count as being in law school.

If you are in law school, better get that refund now because it is not taking! That just might save you some time and money!

Ah yes, falling back on personal attacks.

That's very original. I don't think anyone's ever done that before!

For a law school student, you have about a junior high level of understanding of the law. That is why you get schooled regularly by amateurs.

 

[Faun]

Oh? You think you outplayed him, do you?

Was it your impressive knowledge of Miranda or was it your application of the Carter Page warrant to Michael Flynn which did him in?

Perhaps he's not banning you for outplaying him because you're really just cracking him up? Have you thought of that?

I don't put much thought into motives here...you for instance are obviously needy and still looking for a safe-space after your heroine got her doors blown off by a real estate magnate who never held an office before the Oval. I feel your pain and am enjoying it immensely.

Still cowardly hiding behind trump, I see.

How sad.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Not necessarily, but the possibility exists. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing how mueller got the evidence he used against flynn, but if it is tainted then flynn walks. Sadly so to will manafort, who really is a scumbag.

Please take a legal course. Something that explains how the criminal justice system works, because you are more clueless than Alicia Silverstone.

Flynn pleaded guilty, and gave a full allocution to the judge. And both Flynn and his lawyer signed the agreement where they would not appeal the guilty finding.

Allocution - Wikipedia

An allocution, or allocutus, is a formal statement made to the court by the defendant who has been found guilty prior to being sentenced. It is part of the criminal procedure in some jurisdictions using common law.

In plea bargains, an allocution may be required of the defendant. The defendant explicitly admits specifically and in detail the actions and their reasons in exchange for a reduced sentence.

In principle, that removes any doubt as to the exact nature of the defendant's guilt in the matter.

I'm an Officer of the Court , moron, and have been for longer than you've been alive. I suggest you take your own advice and do some research before you make an ass of yourself yet again.

Maybe. We don't have a clue how they obtained the warrant. I am merely going on what has been reported. The fact that mueller has postponed sentencing tells me that the case is in trouble. There is no logical reason to ever postpone sentencing.

No warrant is needed to monitor foreign powers.

And I can think of many logical reasons for Mueller to postpone sentencing - for example, perhaps he's waiting to see how information given to him by Flynn plays out before he offers a sentence recommendation.

If there was a tap on trump tower there was a warrant. Period. How they obtained that warrant is probably what a good portion of that memo is all about.

No one other than Trump has claimed there was a tap on Trump Tower.

Yet!

LOL

Shit, I'm still waiting for Hussein's stockpiles of WMD's to show up after rightards kept insisting if I just wait, they'll turn up...

yet.

They went to Syria. Have a nice day!

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It's not illegal to tap the Russian Ambassador's phone.

As for what they were talking about, it's been all over the news for a year now - and as for whether or not Flynn is guilty, he claims that he is, so why do you doubt him?

Like I said, I would like to know what he is guilty for. If it's trivial, or even illegal tactics used, Let him go. We have to have laws and the authorities have to abide by them. We are no better than a third world country if we allow illegal means used to get political enemies.

Flynn told the FBI that he had not talked to Ambassador Kislak about sanctions. The surveillence of Kislak, which picked up that phone call proved that he was lying.

Lying to the FBI is a crime, and the one that Flynn plead guilty to. There were no "illegal tactics" used, and no one forced Flynn to lie. It doesn't even really appear that he had reason to lie - but he did so anyway.

So how is Flynn being prosecuted from a wiretap on the Russian ambassador if he was not the target of the surveillance?

That would be like prosecuting someone for jaywalking when you can see him walking across the street on a traffic camera after he witnessed an armed robbery at a bank, and letting the bank robber go free!

Because he called the target of the surveillance, and their conversation was recorded.

I don't understand your delusional hypothetical - but I'll supply my own.

If the FBI sets up a long-term surveillance operation on a suspected drug kingpin's house (complete with legal warrants and everything) and happens to record a man kidnapping a woman, and throwing her into the trunk of his car in front of the drug kingpin's house.

Do you think that the evidence against the kidnapper, in the form of the video of him committing the crime, was "illegally acquired"? He wasn't the target of the surveillance.

Read the 4th Amendment! You'll find the answer there.

No warrant means no evidence.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


If you get a warrant to search a drug kingpin's house, but you search a car parked in the backyard and find a few cases of moonshine, you are shit out of luck! If you didn't specify searching the car, nothing is admissible.

No, that's not how it works. If, in the course of legal surveillance of someone else, you inadvertently pick up someone else incriminating themselves, that's completely legal evidence.

They didn't exceed their scope by listening in when Flynn called the Russian ambassador, because Flynn's call was incidental to their legal investigation.

 

[Faun]

I think you're a little behind the times. Flynn is well past the "indictment" phase - he's already plead guilty.

That's why they're talking about sentencing.

What happens if the guilty plea is not accepted by the judge because of some misconduct by the FBI brought out in the FISA memo?

It was already accepted.

What "misconduct" do you believe occurred?

Illegal FISA warrant.

Judges can change their mind if there is new evidence.

What illegal FISA warrant in regards to Flynn?

Several people have been claiming that there was no warrant for Flynn. Without a warrant, nothing is admissible. So there must have been a FISA warrant for Flynn, right?

No, not right.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

It's not quite that simple, actually.

If the charges against Flynn was based on illegally obtained evidence, he could appeal his guilty plea, but only if his lawyers had previously filed motions to suppress said evidence which were denied. I'm not aware of Flynn's lawyers challenging the evidence against him, but it's possible that it happened.

As for your fantasies of "perjury" to get the warrant - what are you basing that on, other than desire?

Apparently your "Law & Order" marathon law education is lacking.

Go back to school and learn it the right way.

I am at this moment, in Law School, fuckwit.

Being the night janitor and sweeping up the place does not count as being in law school.

If you are in law school, better get that refund now because it is not taking! That just might save you some time and money!

Ah yes, falling back on personal attacks.

That's very original. I don't think anyone's ever done that before!

For a law school student, you have about a junior high level of understanding of the law. That is why you get schooled regularly by amateurs.

Do you really think that you're impressing anyone with this bluster?

Either respond to the substance of what I posted, or don't. This just makes you look like a child.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Not when Flynn and his lawyer signed off that they waived all appeal rights. .

Wrong. If it is found that the DOJ and the FBI broke the law then flynns guilty plea is considered to have been made UNDER DURESS. Look it up. And I suggest you not use wiki or Law and Order reruns for your legal education.

Maybe you don't understand. No matter what happens Flynns and Papadopoulos' guilty pleadings are now etched in stone. Both the accused and their lawyers signed under penalty of perjury, that they waived all appeal rights.

There isn't a court they can go to to change the conviction.

Well that's not true. If Flynn could find proof the evidence used against him was illegally obtained, he could have his plea vacated. Flynn's problem, is that there is apparently no such evidence.

Well, somebody we know is holding up his sentencing for some unknown reason. Why is one more possible than the other?

Because no one here knows the reason it's being held up. Anything anyone says is nothing but speculation. Hysterically, most of the claims here are regarding the FISA warrant on Carter Page which has nothing to do with Flynn lying to the FBI.

We are all still waiting for some proof of that assertion. My money is on the possibility that you simply made it up. Why can't you support your claim?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

No, that's not how it works. If, in the course of legal surveillance of someone else, you inadvertently pick up someone else incriminating themselves, that's completely legal evidence.

They didn't exceed their scope by listening in when Flynn called the Russian ambassador, because Flynn's call was incidental to their legal investigation.

I disagree.

It is my understanding that they still need court approval to unmask the U.S. Person (which is a term of art). They are supposed to completely ignore WHO the U.S. Person is and only look at it for context regarding the foreign agent (who can be tapped without a warrant).

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What happens if the guilty plea is not accepted by the judge because of some misconduct by the FBI brought out in the FISA memo?

It was already accepted.

What "misconduct" do you believe occurred?

Illegal FISA warrant.

Judges can change their mind if there is new evidence.

What illegal FISA warrant in regards to Flynn?

Several people have been claiming that there was no warrant for Flynn. Without a warrant, nothing is admissible. So there must have been a FISA warrant for Flynn, right?

No, not right.

No warrant = no evidence he lied. Have a nice day!

 

[Tom Horn]

Still cowardly hiding behind trump, I see.

How sad.

Still blithering that Hillary got jobbed I see.

How incoherent.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

For a law school student, you have about a junior high level of understanding of the law. That is why you get schooled regularly by amateurs.

He is an evening custodial technician (as am I). Quit calling him a law student.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Apparently your "Law & Order" marathon law education is lacking.

Go back to school and learn it the right way.

I am at this moment, in Law School, fuckwit.

Being the night janitor and sweeping up the place does not count as being in law school.

If you are in law school, better get that refund now because it is not taking! That just might save you some time and money!

Ah yes, falling back on personal attacks.

That's very original. I don't think anyone's ever done that before!

For a law school student, you have about a junior high level of understanding of the law. That is why you get schooled regularly by amateurs.

Do you really think that you're impressing anyone with this bluster?

Either respond to the substance of what I posted, or don't. This just makes you look like a child.

I would love to respond to the substance of what you posted, but I am being forced to answer bullshit from a wannabe lawyer who can't carry a discussion on a message board.

A high school graduate with a good civics course under their belt knows better than to post some of the drivel you have been spouting. I should know. I taught it off and on for the past 20 years.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The obama admin was releasing the names of Americans "caught" up in the various surveillance programs they had going. That is "unmasking".

Great, so how does that render a warrant, "illegal?"

If half of what has been reported is true, then the info they used against flynn was most likely obtained via the illegal FISA warrant. If that is indeed factual, flynn walks.

If the fbi materially misreported the evidence they used to obtain the warrant that is called PERJURY. If they perjured themselves to obtain the warrant they are fucked three ways from Sunday.

Again, you're conflating the warrant on Page with Flynn.

How do you know the memo has to do with Page?

You don't, do you?

The news is reporting unnamed sources familiar with the memo are claiming that's among Nunes' memo.

Oh, so you can explain that you have absolutely no basis for that claim. Fake news strikes again! Good job!

 

[Faun]

Not necessarily, but the possibility exists. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing how mueller got the evidence he used against flynn, but if it is tainted then flynn walks. Sadly so to will manafort, who really is a scumbag.

Please take a legal course. Something that explains how the criminal justice system works, because you are more clueless than Alicia Silverstone.

Flynn pleaded guilty, and gave a full allocution to the judge. And both Flynn and his lawyer signed the agreement where they would not appeal the guilty finding.

Allocution - Wikipedia

An allocution, or allocutus, is a formal statement made to the court by the defendant who has been found guilty prior to being sentenced. It is part of the criminal procedure in some jurisdictions using common law.

In plea bargains, an allocution may be required of the defendant. The defendant explicitly admits specifically and in detail the actions and their reasons in exchange for a reduced sentence.

In principle, that removes any doubt as to the exact nature of the defendant's guilt in the matter.

I'm an Officer of the Court , moron, and have been for longer than you've been alive. I suggest you take your own advice and do some research before you make an ass of yourself yet again.

No warrant is needed to monitor foreign powers.

And I can think of many logical reasons for Mueller to postpone sentencing - for example, perhaps he's waiting to see how information given to him by Flynn plays out before he offers a sentence recommendation.

If there was a tap on trump tower there was a warrant. Period. How they obtained that warrant is probably what a good portion of that memo is all about.

No one other than Trump has claimed there was a tap on Trump Tower.

Yet!

LOL

Shit, I'm still waiting for Hussein's stockpiles of WMD's to show up after rightards kept insisting if I just wait, they'll turn up...

yet.

They went to Syria. Have a nice day!

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

A high school graduate with a good civics course under their belt knows better than to post some of the drivel you have been spouting. I should know. I taught it off and on for the past 20 years.

You did no such thing. You were the janitor.

 

[Tom Horn]

For a law school student, you have about a junior high level of understanding of the law. That is why you get schooled regularly by amateurs.

He is an evening custodial technician (as am I). Quit calling him a law student.

I knew a hippie janitor who worked the night shift at the UofM (Ann Arbor) science building. Real stoner, always had a slab of hashish on him. He claimed space ships landed on the roof and used the elevators down to ground level to do whatever aliens do at night. Real matter of fact about it...no big thing. Then he was gone...maybe they kidnapped his ass....nobody knows.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

No, that's not how it works. If, in the course of legal surveillance of someone else, you inadvertently pick up someone else incriminating themselves, that's completely legal evidence.

They didn't exceed their scope by listening in when Flynn called the Russian ambassador, because Flynn's call was incidental to their legal investigation.

I disagree.

It is my understanding that they still need court approval to unmask the U.S. Person (which is a term of art). They are supposed to completely ignore WHO the U.S. Person is and only look at it for context regarding the foreign agent (who can be tapped without a warrant).

I've been looking around, but I haven't found anything to support that position. No statutes, no court rulings, nothing. I don't know for sure, though - and if the Court were to take it up in the future, I wouldn't be surprised if they agreed with what you're saying.

But unless I've missed something - and I've done a number of Westlaw and Lexis searches - there's no court precedent or statutes that I've been able to find that say that incidental recording is inadmissible absent a warrant.

 

[Faun]

Wrong. If it is found that the DOJ and the FBI broke the law then flynns guilty plea is considered to have been made UNDER DURESS. Look it up. And I suggest you not use wiki or Law and Order reruns for your legal education.

Maybe you don't understand. No matter what happens Flynns and Papadopoulos' guilty pleadings are now etched in stone. Both the accused and their lawyers signed under penalty of perjury, that they waived all appeal rights.

There isn't a court they can go to to change the conviction.

Well that's not true. If Flynn could find proof the evidence used against him was illegally obtained, he could have his plea vacated. Flynn's problem, is that there is apparently no such evidence.

Well, somebody we know is holding up his sentencing for some unknown reason. Why is one more possible than the other?

Because no one here knows the reason it's being held up. Anything anyone says is nothing but speculation. Hysterically, most of the claims here are regarding the FISA warrant on Carter Page which has nothing to do with Flynn lying to the FBI.

We are all still waiting for some proof of that assertion. My money is on the possibility that you simply made it up. Why can't you support your claim?

LOL

Then you already lost your bet since I already linked an article about it.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I knew a hippie janitor who worked the night shift at the UofM (Ann Arbor) science building. Real stoner, always had a slab of hashish on him. He claimed space ships landed on the roof and used the elevators down to ground level to do whatever aliens do at night. Real matter of fact about it...no big thing. Then he was gone...maybe they kidnapped his ass....nobody knows.

Or, he is currently posting on USMB....as Bootney......