Brexit busted.

[Drummond]

On Obama ... what's truly 'fucking pathetic' (to quote you) is a world leader coming to Britain, believing he can use his time to throw a threat at us he cannot possibly back up ... and our not seeing through him. Obama's a good example of someone following a political agenda which is NOT Britain's own, its nature can be discerned from Obama's need to use a hostile threat to follow through on it, yet, we're expected, somehow, to choose to bend to it !!!!

The British people have every right to decide their own future. The Conservatives recognised that principle when they paved the way for the forthcoming Referendum. And .. decide it, we will -- according to what is seen to be in the UK's own interests. Not Barack Obama's interests. Not in Chancellor Merkel's interests. Not in Putin' interests, or China's interests, or (if they even care) ISIS's own interests !!! OUR INTERESTS !!!

As for you ... you debate the pros and cons of Brexit, but obviously there's more to your debating than just 'academic interest' ... and an objective need or wish to assess the issue on its own merits. There has to be. Saying so isn't 'attacking' you ... it's just stating the bleedin' obvious, when you're obviously so very determined to hide your nationality here !

So, what advantage do YOU gain, by persuading Brits to abandon thoughts of Brexit ? What nationalistic interest is in play, for you, which you won't even hint at the nature of ?? What will you achieve (or hope to achieve) which a victory in this debate for you will give you ?

Are you arguing a pro-Europe stance because you're from mainland Europe ? Do you serve German interests ? French interests ? Spanish interests ? Romanian interests ? Polish interests ? Perhaps you want immigration into the UK to remain as easy as possible, because it's in your nationalistic interest to see to it that it is ... and unrestrained immigration is NOT in the UK's own interests !!!

Are you ... Russian ? Chinese ? From the Middle East ? Do you represent THEIR political interests .. and want to see to it that the UK follows their preferences, at a cost to its own ?

But still ... never mind. You still need, evidently, to keep silent about your nationality here. It may be your right to do so - I don't question that it is - but it also seems that your reason for hiding it must be a remarkably strong one.

You can't, surely, blame me for wondering about that. Or .. blame anyone else, if they, too, wonder about it ....

Obama threw a threat? What threat would that be?

Would it be this "threat" on this video? Or would you be able to show me this supposed "threat"?

Obama’s remarks on UK remaining in EU get hostile Eurosceptic reaction

Or this one, the Express (do you read the express, please tell me you don't read that trash)

Obama's amazing THREAT to Britain: UK would be at the 'back of the queue' after Brexit

"The US President warned the UK would be “at the back of the queue” for a trade deal with America if it quit Brussels."

Doesn't seem to be a threat, just seems like a "there's a queue, you'd have to join the queue".

Surely the British people need to know this information, wouldn't you say? Don't you think it would be unwise of people to vote in the referendum without knowing what might happen to trade?

Obama is clearly stating an American point of view. The British people need to know more than just the British view of things.

No, you're coming out with "it's for the British people to decide", have you not commented on Trump and Hillary? I mean, it's not your place to make comments, it's only for the Americans, so you should be prevented from saying anything?

Or, can we agree, that everyone should have the right to discuss politics, everyone should have the right to hear other people's opinions, but those who can vote are those who can vote, and Obama can't vote, so why all this anger?

I know why, it's simple. Someone coming out against.

Sol Campbell came out against the EU, I didn't try and shout him down, just say why his reasoning was completely and utterly wrong. Marie Le Pen also came out in favor of leaving, did I criticize and say she shouldn't? No, I did not.

So why do you feel the need to stop British people listening to the arguments you don't like? What is there to hide about leaving the EU that you feel the need to hide?

As for discussing me, I think we can leave that out, don't you? I'm not interested in discussing me. If you are, you can make a threat about me. But yes, my reason for hiding it is strong. I don't come on here for people to attack me. It's simple.

In referring to Obama's threat, I refer to the one the Express reported. And it WAS a threat. By the time we're sufficiently disenfranchised from the EU (these things take time to arrange) Obama would no longer be President, and it's likely that his own Party will also be out of power, too. So ... on what conceivable 'authority' can he be remotely sure about our place in this trading queue he wanted to threaten us about ???

Answer .. HE COULDN'T. Which meant he was making an empty threat, one he couldn't reasonably back up. And yet ... still, he made it !! What powerful, all-overriding imperative, could he have had, to do such a thing ???

The answer has to be a political one. A political goal, agenda, which Obama is desperate to have us follow, and this on the back of an empty threat !! It's just a bit like Al Capone making a personal threat just at the very time he's prosecuted for tax evasion ...

I take it that my case is clear. Foreign agendas do matter, our understanding of what they are, and what they will lead to, definitely ditto. Should the UK decide its fate according to OUR interests, or instead to serve the interests of a power issuing an empty, yet hostile, threat ??

Knowing what others intend for us MATTERS. It helps us reach a fair and reasonable decision.

Oh, and yes, I do read the Express .. and not the Guardian, which is a LEFTIE rag.

And yes ... whether you, Mr (or Mrs ?) Anonymous, approve or not ... I do have every right to make such a choice. It's mine to make.

... 'Sorry' ...

How was it a threat? Because the Express shout out to the rooftops that it is a threat? Oh come on. It sounds more like procedure. Don't the British like their fair queuing and you go to the back of the queue rather than push into the front?

No, Obama would no longer be President. So again, how's it a threat? If Obama is telling the truth, then it's merely how the US govt works, if Obama isn't telling the truth then it doesn't matter.

Perhaps it was a political view. Perhaps Obama believes that Britain being in the EU is in the best interests of the US. I mean, he stated at other times that this is what he believes. See the BBC video on Guardian site for him saying that the USA prefers the EU as a strong united body.
Again, why shouldn't the British people know what the US President has to say on this matter? Surely knowledge is power. However the Brexit side seem to find their power comes from ignorance. Why? Isn't that worrying?

Foreign agendas do matter. Which is why the people need to listen to what foreign leaders are saying. So why are you trying to stop people listening to Obama?

I didn't say you didn't have every right to make your own decision. However I would like you, and everyone else who will be voting, to make a vote based on knowledge and not ignorance. As I said before, Brexit people have been trying to keep people in ignorance.

In fact some of their statements are absolutely hilarious.

'Only Brexit can save the NHS' Ex Labour minister says EU is DESTROYING our health service

"
'Only Brexit can save the NHS' Ex Labour minister says EU is DESTROYING our health service"

This would make me laugh out hard if it weren't so serious. The Tories have been destroying the NHS since day one, the Lib Dems sat back and watched it happen and their own supporters turned against them. But the Express blame this on the EU.

(I just found this, I'd not actually read this before, and was a little shocked, this next one is what I was looking for)

NHS to save £300million EVERY YEAR after Brexit by stopping 'freeloading' health tourists

"
NHS to save £300million EVERY YEAR after Brexit by stopping 'freeloading' health tourists"

So, they made this claim. I've already stated that the UK govt could put in place measures to stop this, but haven't. Health tourists would still be able to go to the UK after leaving the EU anyway, and they'd still get free healthcare. I doubt the EU health card thing would disappear, as it would cause problems for so many British tourists who get free healthcare in countries like Spain and Greece after alcohol induced vomiting.

After this, I'm sorry I can't think exactly what it was, but there was something a day or two after the one I quoted happened and some stay person made claims about how much money would be saved from something or other, and then Johnson or Farage came out and criticized them for making stuff up about costs, which is exactly what they had done like 2 days previously.



Also, I don't see why you're saying sorry. I want people to vote, and I want them to vote for they think is best for them. However I think people need knowledge.

I'm a liberal. Someone before the 2010 asked me about who to vote for at that election and I didn't say "vote Labour" or "vote Lib Dems". I gave her the facts and I believe she then voted Tory (but I doubt she'll be doing that again, she became a teacher in the UK).

The first part of your reply is laughable. I'm to understand that we in the UK are supposed to be 'fine' about being pushed to the back of the queue to form trading agreements ??

Is this a comment, I wonder, from someone interested in the BEST for the UK, or the WORST ? I suggest your comment is informative .....

In any case, as I said before, it was an empty threat. A nasty one, an empty one, one borne of some measure of politically-motivated desperation, apparently, since it was issued despite being NOT at all authoritatively enforceable !!

You say it might not be a threat, but an insight into how the US Government works. So ... the US Government routinely shoves us to the back of trading queues ?? Since when ? [And, if 'routine' .. then why did Obama even comment ?]

If Obama genuinely has the UK interests at heart, then, if he thinks staying in the EU serves them, he could set out his own case to 'persuade' us ... and not THREATEN us. Oh, and in so doing, he should explain what self-serving agenda on behalf of the US he's pursuing .. yes, he should be that transparent ...

On 'transparency' ... I, ahem, 'like' this wording, from you ...

However I would like you, and everyone else who will be voting, to make a vote based on knowledge and not ignorance.

You're keeping everyone ignorant, here, about your nationality, and therefore what self-serving agenda you're pursuing ! You say you've a 'strong' reason for doing so (but you won't say what it is ..). You could easily be from a rival power, one that routinely has not shown itself to be our ally ... and it's that mindset which could well be driving you now. Unfortunately, none of us have any way, so far as I know, of getting to the truth (or otherwise) of that.

Knowledge, not ignorance. Yes - quite ...

On to David Owen's view, then ... Owen, by the way, was a senior figure in British politics in past decades. He even part-founded a Party rivalling Labour, called the SDP. He's also been a Government Minister ...

Look at the Express's report. Owen gives, as his reasoning ...

He is expected to say that a vote to leave the EU would allow the UK to take back control of the NHS and protect it from outside competition.

He will argue that the NHS would be freed from any competition-and-market-led involvement from the European Commission, including a proposed transatlantic free trade deal between the EU and the US.

So, there's your answer. We're freed from the EU's restrictive practices, and their bureaucracy, in this matter. We will be far more free to craft our own agreements elsewhere .. which can only aid the NHS. After all, even as things stand, the NHS is the fifth biggest employer on the planet !! It makes sense to expand the NHS's freedom to seek alternative resources !

Fact is that as matters stand, the EU insists we maintain porous borders.These are borders through which EU citizens (and that's just 'legal' people !!) can pour, seeking benefits they consider they can't get at home. The obvious answer is to put a plug in the plughole, and STOP this traffic of people forever trying to sponge off of us !!

Well at least you're having fun, hey?

No, you aren't being pushed to the back, you're taking your position at the back of the queue. You seem to be demanding special treatment here. Why?

Is Obama interested in the best interests of the UK? No. He never said he was. He's said what is in the best interests of the USA. The UK out of the EU might not be in the best interests of the USA, and making a trade deal with Britain as priority might not be in the best interests of the USA, it might be in their interests to do things in chronological order.

The point being, again, Obama has the power to say, and the British people should use their brains and listen.

You keep making this into some kind of fight without actually looking at what is sensible for people to do.

Again, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, knowing how other countries might react is knowledge that can lead to the best decision.

All you seem interested in is vilifying Obama, America, anyone who has an opinion other than yours, then start shouting that you have the right to vote the way you like and blah blah, but so does everyone else, and they also have the right to know what is going on before they vote.

Why does Brexit not want people to know?

You started attacking me because you don't know where I'm from. You attack Obama because he's from America.... really? People should be informed, don't you think?


My nationality has nothing to do with it. I'm beginning to think you want to fuck me, the amount you keep talking about me. Did you notice "frigidweirdo" in the title of this thread? No, well then, stick to the topic.

The People of the UK don't need to know where I'm from, I mean, I think I only talk to about 2 or three UK people about this anyway.

Not special treatment at all .. just FAIR treatment.

Obama definitely threatened us. His point was to say we'd go to the back of the queue, if we left the EU. That was the very nature of the threat, to disadvantage us if we ceased to be part of the EU.

In other words, our position in that queue would change, if we dared choose not to be a part of a political entity HE favoured for us !!

See ..

Obama's amazing THREAT to Britain: UK would be at the 'back of the queue' after Brexit

The US President warned the UK would be “at the back of the queue” for a trade deal with America if it quit Brussels.

But his threat provoked outrage and scorn from pro-Brexit campaigners, who dismissed it as yet another scaremongering ploy from the pro-EU lobby.

Mr Obama, who will no longer be in office when decisions on a trade deal are made, delivered a lecture to the British people on why he thinks it is in the UK’s, America’s and the world’s best interests for Britain to vote to stay in the EU on June 23.

An empty threat, but one made, nonetheless. One that was, in large measure, self-serving.

You say ... this is funny !! ...

You started attacking me because you don't know where I'm from. You attack Obama because he's from America.... really? People should be informed, don't you think?

That would be, informed about what ? That which you want them to NOT be informed about ??

Make up your mind !!

You say ...

My nationality has nothing to do with it. I'm beginning to think you want to fuck me, the amount you keep talking about me. Did you notice "frigidweirdo" in the title of this thread?

Charming ! Do you post this stuff because you know you can't make a reasonable case for hiding your identity (.. therefore, any insight into any ongoing political agenda) .. so, you stoop to this kind of posting, instead ? Your national identity doesn't give anyone here your exact address, or anything like it !! If I tell you (.. I do ..) that I'm living in Wales, but I'm English, does this help you identify my precise location ?? NO, it doesn't.

I suggest that your national identity has a bearing on what biases you have, what interests prompt them, therefore, what's driving you to make your case. Since UK citizens have a right to be fully informed about what's in THEIR best interests ... any alternative agendas being pursued can have quite a bearing on the final decision.

What if there was a majority in favour of Brexit, but it so happened that some of those voices arguing the opposite saw advantages to THEM, not US, and yet were hiding that truth, by 'virtue' of the fact that the very nationalities were hidden ? Like, if Chinese people intervened. Or, Russians. Or other nationalities not normally our allies, but who wanted to skew thinking THEIR way, for THEIR purposes .. ?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Obama threw a threat? What threat would that be?

Would it be this "threat" on this video? Or would you be able to show me this supposed "threat"?

Obama’s remarks on UK remaining in EU get hostile Eurosceptic reaction

Or this one, the Express (do you read the express, please tell me you don't read that trash)

Obama's amazing THREAT to Britain: UK would be at the 'back of the queue' after Brexit

"The US President warned the UK would be “at the back of the queue” for a trade deal with America if it quit Brussels."

Doesn't seem to be a threat, just seems like a "there's a queue, you'd have to join the queue".

Surely the British people need to know this information, wouldn't you say? Don't you think it would be unwise of people to vote in the referendum without knowing what might happen to trade?

Obama is clearly stating an American point of view. The British people need to know more than just the British view of things.

No, you're coming out with "it's for the British people to decide", have you not commented on Trump and Hillary? I mean, it's not your place to make comments, it's only for the Americans, so you should be prevented from saying anything?

Or, can we agree, that everyone should have the right to discuss politics, everyone should have the right to hear other people's opinions, but those who can vote are those who can vote, and Obama can't vote, so why all this anger?

I know why, it's simple. Someone coming out against.

Sol Campbell came out against the EU, I didn't try and shout him down, just say why his reasoning was completely and utterly wrong. Marie Le Pen also came out in favor of leaving, did I criticize and say she shouldn't? No, I did not.

So why do you feel the need to stop British people listening to the arguments you don't like? What is there to hide about leaving the EU that you feel the need to hide?

As for discussing me, I think we can leave that out, don't you? I'm not interested in discussing me. If you are, you can make a threat about me. But yes, my reason for hiding it is strong. I don't come on here for people to attack me. It's simple.

In referring to Obama's threat, I refer to the one the Express reported. And it WAS a threat. By the time we're sufficiently disenfranchised from the EU (these things take time to arrange) Obama would no longer be President, and it's likely that his own Party will also be out of power, too. So ... on what conceivable 'authority' can he be remotely sure about our place in this trading queue he wanted to threaten us about ???

Answer .. HE COULDN'T. Which meant he was making an empty threat, one he couldn't reasonably back up. And yet ... still, he made it !! What powerful, all-overriding imperative, could he have had, to do such a thing ???

The answer has to be a political one. A political goal, agenda, which Obama is desperate to have us follow, and this on the back of an empty threat !! It's just a bit like Al Capone making a personal threat just at the very time he's prosecuted for tax evasion ...

I take it that my case is clear. Foreign agendas do matter, our understanding of what they are, and what they will lead to, definitely ditto. Should the UK decide its fate according to OUR interests, or instead to serve the interests of a power issuing an empty, yet hostile, threat ??

Knowing what others intend for us MATTERS. It helps us reach a fair and reasonable decision.

Oh, and yes, I do read the Express .. and not the Guardian, which is a LEFTIE rag.

And yes ... whether you, Mr (or Mrs ?) Anonymous, approve or not ... I do have every right to make such a choice. It's mine to make.

... 'Sorry' ...

How was it a threat? Because the Express shout out to the rooftops that it is a threat? Oh come on. It sounds more like procedure. Don't the British like their fair queuing and you go to the back of the queue rather than push into the front?

No, Obama would no longer be President. So again, how's it a threat? If Obama is telling the truth, then it's merely how the US govt works, if Obama isn't telling the truth then it doesn't matter.

Perhaps it was a political view. Perhaps Obama believes that Britain being in the EU is in the best interests of the US. I mean, he stated at other times that this is what he believes. See the BBC video on Guardian site for him saying that the USA prefers the EU as a strong united body.
Again, why shouldn't the British people know what the US President has to say on this matter? Surely knowledge is power. However the Brexit side seem to find their power comes from ignorance. Why? Isn't that worrying?

Foreign agendas do matter. Which is why the people need to listen to what foreign leaders are saying. So why are you trying to stop people listening to Obama?

I didn't say you didn't have every right to make your own decision. However I would like you, and everyone else who will be voting, to make a vote based on knowledge and not ignorance. As I said before, Brexit people have been trying to keep people in ignorance.

In fact some of their statements are absolutely hilarious.

'Only Brexit can save the NHS' Ex Labour minister says EU is DESTROYING our health service

"
'Only Brexit can save the NHS' Ex Labour minister says EU is DESTROYING our health service"

This would make me laugh out hard if it weren't so serious. The Tories have been destroying the NHS since day one, the Lib Dems sat back and watched it happen and their own supporters turned against them. But the Express blame this on the EU.

(I just found this, I'd not actually read this before, and was a little shocked, this next one is what I was looking for)

NHS to save £300million EVERY YEAR after Brexit by stopping 'freeloading' health tourists

"
NHS to save £300million EVERY YEAR after Brexit by stopping 'freeloading' health tourists"

So, they made this claim. I've already stated that the UK govt could put in place measures to stop this, but haven't. Health tourists would still be able to go to the UK after leaving the EU anyway, and they'd still get free healthcare. I doubt the EU health card thing would disappear, as it would cause problems for so many British tourists who get free healthcare in countries like Spain and Greece after alcohol induced vomiting.

After this, I'm sorry I can't think exactly what it was, but there was something a day or two after the one I quoted happened and some stay person made claims about how much money would be saved from something or other, and then Johnson or Farage came out and criticized them for making stuff up about costs, which is exactly what they had done like 2 days previously.



Also, I don't see why you're saying sorry. I want people to vote, and I want them to vote for they think is best for them. However I think people need knowledge.

I'm a liberal. Someone before the 2010 asked me about who to vote for at that election and I didn't say "vote Labour" or "vote Lib Dems". I gave her the facts and I believe she then voted Tory (but I doubt she'll be doing that again, she became a teacher in the UK).

The first part of your reply is laughable. I'm to understand that we in the UK are supposed to be 'fine' about being pushed to the back of the queue to form trading agreements ??

Is this a comment, I wonder, from someone interested in the BEST for the UK, or the WORST ? I suggest your comment is informative .....

In any case, as I said before, it was an empty threat. A nasty one, an empty one, one borne of some measure of politically-motivated desperation, apparently, since it was issued despite being NOT at all authoritatively enforceable !!

You say it might not be a threat, but an insight into how the US Government works. So ... the US Government routinely shoves us to the back of trading queues ?? Since when ? [And, if 'routine' .. then why did Obama even comment ?]

If Obama genuinely has the UK interests at heart, then, if he thinks staying in the EU serves them, he could set out his own case to 'persuade' us ... and not THREATEN us. Oh, and in so doing, he should explain what self-serving agenda on behalf of the US he's pursuing .. yes, he should be that transparent ...

On 'transparency' ... I, ahem, 'like' this wording, from you ...

However I would like you, and everyone else who will be voting, to make a vote based on knowledge and not ignorance.

You're keeping everyone ignorant, here, about your nationality, and therefore what self-serving agenda you're pursuing ! You say you've a 'strong' reason for doing so (but you won't say what it is ..). You could easily be from a rival power, one that routinely has not shown itself to be our ally ... and it's that mindset which could well be driving you now. Unfortunately, none of us have any way, so far as I know, of getting to the truth (or otherwise) of that.

Knowledge, not ignorance. Yes - quite ...

On to David Owen's view, then ... Owen, by the way, was a senior figure in British politics in past decades. He even part-founded a Party rivalling Labour, called the SDP. He's also been a Government Minister ...

Look at the Express's report. Owen gives, as his reasoning ...

He is expected to say that a vote to leave the EU would allow the UK to take back control of the NHS and protect it from outside competition.

He will argue that the NHS would be freed from any competition-and-market-led involvement from the European Commission, including a proposed transatlantic free trade deal between the EU and the US.

So, there's your answer. We're freed from the EU's restrictive practices, and their bureaucracy, in this matter. We will be far more free to craft our own agreements elsewhere .. which can only aid the NHS. After all, even as things stand, the NHS is the fifth biggest employer on the planet !! It makes sense to expand the NHS's freedom to seek alternative resources !

Fact is that as matters stand, the EU insists we maintain porous borders.These are borders through which EU citizens (and that's just 'legal' people !!) can pour, seeking benefits they consider they can't get at home. The obvious answer is to put a plug in the plughole, and STOP this traffic of people forever trying to sponge off of us !!

Well at least you're having fun, hey?

No, you aren't being pushed to the back, you're taking your position at the back of the queue. You seem to be demanding special treatment here. Why?

Is Obama interested in the best interests of the UK? No. He never said he was. He's said what is in the best interests of the USA. The UK out of the EU might not be in the best interests of the USA, and making a trade deal with Britain as priority might not be in the best interests of the USA, it might be in their interests to do things in chronological order.

The point being, again, Obama has the power to say, and the British people should use their brains and listen.

You keep making this into some kind of fight without actually looking at what is sensible for people to do.

Again, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, knowing how other countries might react is knowledge that can lead to the best decision.

All you seem interested in is vilifying Obama, America, anyone who has an opinion other than yours, then start shouting that you have the right to vote the way you like and blah blah, but so does everyone else, and they also have the right to know what is going on before they vote.

Why does Brexit not want people to know?

You started attacking me because you don't know where I'm from. You attack Obama because he's from America.... really? People should be informed, don't you think?


My nationality has nothing to do with it. I'm beginning to think you want to fuck me, the amount you keep talking about me. Did you notice "frigidweirdo" in the title of this thread? No, well then, stick to the topic.

The People of the UK don't need to know where I'm from, I mean, I think I only talk to about 2 or three UK people about this anyway.

Not special treatment at all .. just FAIR treatment.

Obama definitely threatened us. His point was to say we'd go to the back of the queue, if we left the EU. That was the very nature of the threat, to disadvantage us if we ceased to be part of the EU.

In other words, our position in that queue would change, if we dared choose not to be a part of a political entity HE favoured for us !!

See ..

Obama's amazing THREAT to Britain: UK would be at the 'back of the queue' after Brexit

The US President warned the UK would be “at the back of the queue” for a trade deal with America if it quit Brussels.

But his threat provoked outrage and scorn from pro-Brexit campaigners, who dismissed it as yet another scaremongering ploy from the pro-EU lobby.

Mr Obama, who will no longer be in office when decisions on a trade deal are made, delivered a lecture to the British people on why he thinks it is in the UK’s, America’s and the world’s best interests for Britain to vote to stay in the EU on June 23.

An empty threat, but one made, nonetheless. One that was, in large measure, self-serving.

You say ... this is funny !! ...

You started attacking me because you don't know where I'm from. You attack Obama because he's from America.... really? People should be informed, don't you think?

That would be, informed about what ? That which you want them to NOT be informed about ??

Make up your mind !!

You say ...

My nationality has nothing to do with it. I'm beginning to think you want to fuck me, the amount you keep talking about me. Did you notice "frigidweirdo" in the title of this thread?

Charming ! Do you post this stuff because you know you can't make a reasonable case for hiding your identity (.. therefore, any insight into any ongoing political agenda) .. so, you stoop to this kind of posting, instead ? Your national identity doesn't give anyone here your exact address, or anything like it !! If I tell you (.. I do ..) that I'm living in Wales, but I'm English, does this help you identify my precise location ?? NO, it doesn't.

I suggest that your national identity has a bearing on what biases you have, what interests prompt them, therefore, what's driving you to make your case. Since UK citizens have a right to be fully informed about what's in THEIR best interests ... any alternative agendas being pursued can have quite a bearing on the final decision.

What if there was a majority in favour of Brexit, but it so happened that some of those voices arguing the opposite saw advantages to THEM, not US, and yet were hiding that truth, by 'virtue' of the fact that the very nationalities were hidden ? Like, if Chinese people intervened. Or, Russians. Or other nationalities not normally our allies, but who wanted to skew thinking THEIR way, for THEIR purposes .. ?

Would not being put at the end of the queue be "fair treatment"?

Also, if the UK goes against the desires of the US, why should the US give fair treatment?

The US doesn't owe the UK anything, and can act in the manner it chooses to do. The larger and more powerful a country, the more it can get away with. The EU has more power than the UK, for example. So in leaving the EU, the UK has less power, less fair treatment. It might not be fair, but the British people can choose.

Informed about what other people think. I thought I made that clear.

Again, you're attacking me and talking about my nationality.

Would it be so hard to stick to the topic? I've asked many times.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Never mind Brexit. Any more of this and Europe will kick them out.

England fans assert their Englishness by rioting in Marseilles (again).

As if France didnt have enough problems.

 

[ESay]

Never mind Brexit. Any more of this and Europe will kick them out.

England fans assert their Englishness by rioting in Marseilles (again).

As if France didnt have enough problems.

That's OK. They are not Muslims.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Never mind Brexit. Any more of this and Europe will kick them out.

England fans assert their Englishness by rioting in Marseilles (again).

As if France didnt have enough problems.

That's OK. They are not Muslims.

They do it every time. My English friends are sick of apologising for them.

 

[Tilly]

Yay!

EU Referendum: Massive swing to Brexit – with just 12 days to go
Exclusive: polling carried out for ‘The Independent’ shows that 55 per cent of UK voters intend to vote for Britain to leave the EU in the 23 June referendum

• Andrew Grice
• @IndyPolitics
• 1 hour ago

The campaign to take Britain out of the EU has opened up a remarkable 10-point lead over the Remain camp, according to an exclusive poll for The Independent.

The survey of 2,000 people by ORB found that 55 per cent believe the UK should leave the EU (up four points since our last poll in April), while 45 per cent want it to remain (down four points). These figures are weighted to take account of people’s likelihood to vote. It is by far the biggest lead the Leave camp has enjoyed since ORB began polling the EU issue for The Independent a year ago, when it was Remain who enjoyed a 10-point lead. Now the tables have turned.

Even when the findings are not weighted for turnout, Leave is on 53 per cent (up three points since April) and Remain on 47 per cent (down three). The online poll, taken on Wednesday and Thursday, suggests the Out camp has achieved momentum at the critical time ahead of the 23 June referendum.....

Leave opens up massive lead in exclusive Brexit poll for The Independent

 

[Drummond]

More strong-arm tactics from the 'Keep the UK in' side. From Germany, this time, who have issued their own trade threat, 'Obama' style ...

Schaeuble: No Single Market Access After Brexit

Germany has warned the UK it will not have access to the single market if it votes to leave the European Union on 23 June.

German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said a relationship similar to that enjoyed by Norway and Switzerland "won't work" for the UK and that "In is in. Out is out".

Norway has access to the tariff-free single market through European Economic Area arrangements. This means it has to accept most of the laws made in Brussels, accept free movement of labour and pay into EU budgets. Switzerland has a similar arrangement.

Some Brexit supporters have used the two countries as a model for what a non-EU Britain could be.

But Mr Schaeuble told news magazine Der Spiegel: "It would require the country to abide by the rules of a club from which it currently wants to withdraw.

I see no actual practical difficulty in the UK following the Norwegian example. What 'difficulty' there 'would be', so far as I can see, is one of the EU choosing to be spiteful to the UK in particular.

I say this: these threats SHOULD strengthen the Brexit case. After all, what nationality worth its name wants to be told that it MUST knuckle under to strong-arm, 'Mafia' type bullying, and in the process sell out its sovereignty, if it wants to continue to be a viable entity !! No, we need our freedom from these types. We need it NOW.

Perhaps British troops, fighting WWII, fought for the UK to eventually know such further tyranny from Europe ? Did they fight so that we could have the 'privilege' to submit to it ??

Should we honour their memories ? Or, insult them ?

 

[HenryBHough]

The British are just a little slow to react negatively to threats. Look how long it took to set out to whip Hitler's ass. This time their resolve to school Obama for His threats took a little less time.

Gotta give Him credit, though, for cleaning up His language a bit.

It was simply "end of the queue" rather than the old-standby "back of the bus".

 

[Vikrant]

This is a golden opportunity for UK to exit EU and chart its own destiny. If they fail to capitalize on this opportunity then they will be left to scratching their ass for years to come.

 

[ESay]

see no actual practical difficulty in the UK following the Norwegian example. What 'difficulty' there 'would be', so far as I can see, is one of the EU choosing to be spiteful to the UK in particular.

There won’t be difficulty if you agree to accept the EU’s legislation, adhere to free movement of the citizens, and at the same time accept that you don’t have representation in the European Parliament and European Commission.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yay!

EU Referendum: Massive swing to Brexit – with just 12 days to go
Exclusive: polling carried out for ‘The Independent’ shows that 55 per cent of UK voters intend to vote for Britain to leave the EU in the 23 June referendum

• Andrew Grice
• @IndyPolitics
• 1 hour ago

The campaign to take Britain out of the EU has opened up a remarkable 10-point lead over the Remain camp, according to an exclusive poll for The Independent.

The survey of 2,000 people by ORB found that 55 per cent believe the UK should leave the EU (up four points since our last poll in April), while 45 per cent want it to remain (down four points). These figures are weighted to take account of people’s likelihood to vote. It is by far the biggest lead the Leave camp has enjoyed since ORB began polling the EU issue for The Independent a year ago, when it was Remain who enjoyed a 10-point lead. Now the tables have turned.

Even when the findings are not weighted for turnout, Leave is on 53 per cent (up three points since April) and Remain on 47 per cent (down three). The online poll, taken on Wednesday and Thursday, suggests the Out camp has achieved momentum at the critical time ahead of the 23 June referendum.....

Leave opens up massive lead in exclusive Brexit poll for The Independent

I'm assuming this doesn't include expats, many of whom will vote to stay.

 

[frigidweirdo]

More strong-arm tactics from the 'Keep the UK in' side. From Germany, this time, who have issued their own trade threat, 'Obama' style ...

Schaeuble: No Single Market Access After Brexit

Germany has warned the UK it will not have access to the single market if it votes to leave the European Union on 23 June.

German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said a relationship similar to that enjoyed by Norway and Switzerland "won't work" for the UK and that "In is in. Out is out".

Norway has access to the tariff-free single market through European Economic Area arrangements. This means it has to accept most of the laws made in Brussels, accept free movement of labour and pay into EU budgets. Switzerland has a similar arrangement.

Some Brexit supporters have used the two countries as a model for what a non-EU Britain could be.

But Mr Schaeuble told news magazine Der Spiegel: "It would require the country to abide by the rules of a club from which it currently wants to withdraw.

I see no actual practical difficulty in the UK following the Norwegian example. What 'difficulty' there 'would be', so far as I can see, is one of the EU choosing to be spiteful to the UK in particular.

I say this: these threats SHOULD strengthen the Brexit case. After all, what nationality worth its name wants to be told that it MUST knuckle under to strong-arm, 'Mafia' type bullying, and in the process sell out its sovereignty, if it wants to continue to be a viable entity !! No, we need our freedom from these types. We need it NOW.

Perhaps British troops, fighting WWII, fought for the UK to eventually know such further tyranny from Europe ? Did they fight so that we could have the 'privilege' to submit to it ??

Should we honour their memories ? Or, insult them ?

The Norwegian example? They're in the Schengen Zone, don't you know? That would be giving up control of British borders. The exact thing the Brexit people are arguing AGAINST.

I'm not sure if Brexit people actually know what they want.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

They just hate foreigners.

 

[Drummond]

They just hate foreigners.

I'm not following your reasoning.

You're saying that all 'Brexit' supporters are football hooligans ?

Or, that football hooligans don't chant things intended purely to be provocative ... and just for that reason ?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

They just hate foreigners.

I'm not following your reasoning.

You're saying that all 'Brexit' supporters are football hooligans ?

Or, that football hooligans don't chant things intended purely to be provocative ... and just for that reason ?

Its no secret that the bulk of Brexit supporters come from the low educated and illiterate. This was a party picnic for them.
I look forward to seeing you condemn their behaviour.

 

[Drummond]

They just hate foreigners.

I'm not following your reasoning.

You're saying that all 'Brexit' supporters are football hooligans ?

Or, that football hooligans don't chant things intended purely to be provocative ... and just for that reason ?

Its no secret that the bulk of Brexit supporters come from the low educated and illiterate. This was a party picnic for them.
I look forward to seeing you condemn their behaviour.

Seems you dodged my question ? Understandable ...

I do indeed condemn their behaviour. I also condemn any remarks of theirs which were made which were insulting to Europe, or Europeans. I am not here to insult or disparage Europeans myself ... I simply argue to be free of a control-freaking colossus called the EU, so that the UK may know full political autonomy.

As for the 'fans' ... I'll no doubt applaud any and all actions taken against them. In fact ... if England is disqualified, though it might be unfair against the team .. it sends a message that only decent behaviour will serve. And that's just fine by me.

 

[HenryBHough]

And should Brexit fail then Britain would simply get stuffed.....

More than 700,000 Turks ‘will flock to live and work in Britain after country joins EU’

"MORE THAN 700,000 Turks could come to live and work in Britain by 2035 — a think tank claims today in a dramatic EU Referendum “wake up call”.


Migration Watch says 100,000 Turkish migrants will be coming to the UK every year once the country becomes a full EU member."

 

[frigidweirdo]

The EU has no unelected law makers – the UK has 825 in the House of Lords, including 92 born into the job

 

[frigidweirdo]

They just hate foreigners.

I'm not following your reasoning.

You're saying that all 'Brexit' supporters are football hooligans ?

Or, that football hooligans don't chant things intended purely to be provocative ... and just for that reason ?

Its no secret that the bulk of Brexit supporters come from the low educated and illiterate. This was a party picnic for them.
I look forward to seeing you condemn their behaviour.

Seems you dodged my question ? Understandable ...

I do indeed condemn their behaviour. I also condemn any remarks of theirs which were made which were insulting to Europe, or Europeans. I am not here to insult or disparage Europeans myself ... I simply argue to be free of a control-freaking colossus called the EU, so that the UK may know full political autonomy.

As for the 'fans' ... I'll no doubt applaud any and all actions taken against them. In fact ... if England is disqualified, though it might be unfair against the team .. it sends a message that only decent behaviour will serve. And that's just fine by me.

As I just posted, you want to be free? When has the UK govt ever been free? The House of Lords is unelected.

 

[Drummond]

The EU has no unelected law makers – the UK has 825 in the House of Lords, including 92 born into the job

Everyone knows that lords in the House of Lords reach their position through no form of voting system. However ... they are at least British, and do NOT constitute any foreign power. The same cannot be said of the EU, of course, where foreigners predominate, AND have the power to legislate 'for' us.

But see this ...

Who will be in the EU’s next unelected politburo? | AECR

Following the appointment of the unelected Jean-Claude Juncker at the head of the European Commission, a further 27 unelected commissioners must now be appointed, for the next five years, to their powerful posts in the European Commission.

The European Commission – from where all EU legislation emanates – is an institution of around 23,000 civil servants managed by these appointed commissioners .... They serve five-year terms and cannot be removed from their positions by the ballot box.

You were saying .... ?