Brexit busted.

[MaryL]

Well, I disagree with and agree with it too Tommy. My take away is people don't like being dictated to by a minority of whatever group. There is a revolution going on here. Listen to us.

What minority was that? The problem is the English want it their way and believed their small minority should control the other 400 million Europeans. The empire is gone, so up your's English. The EU will go on and may have a new member, Scotland. NI will merge with Ireland who will receive much of the companies and investment that was going to the UK. Sadly, the progressive and more educated English and Welsh are the losers.

The minority would be those that want Britain to remain in the EU, you fill in the blanks, Einstein. I would have rather they stayed in. It fills me with sadness and gloom, but I see this as a democratic revolution. Turn and face the changes.

The UK was a minority in the EU, you moron. They tried to dictate terms to the majority while representing 10% of the EU population.

Yadda yadda yadda. The matter is settled, what do you hope to do here?

 

[montelatici]

I am very happy the UK has left the EU. But, what are you hoping to here big mouth.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

= Stuck on denial.

Perhaps you might ask an adult to help you form an argument. At the moment you support the public not having the facts.

Hey Limey, get your fat ass to bed. Its late and your cognitive abilities have failed you once again.

This 'Limey' shames us other Limeys.

Fact is that we voted for, and will obtain, our freedom from a bureaucratic, largely undemocratic control-freaking colossus. One moving towards so-called 'SuperState' status, in which all its member States must march to the beat of the Brussels drum. No freedom to do otherwise.

Here's the truth. The UK, until it formally cuts ties with the EU, will have to maintain porous borders, meaning that 50 percent of all immigration is out of its control. This is unacceptable, and our electorate found it to be. They acted accordingly.

More ... the EU is a house of cards waiting to be toppled. Greece, with its small economy, nonetheless gave the EU a major headache not too long ago. Similar, but rather larger 'headaches' can be expected when other weak economies default in future. I don't believe the EU will ultimately stand up to the enormous pressures this will foist on other EU members ... and we'll see the EU eventually disintegrate.

Happily, we'll have got out in time. I believe the UK's long-term future is the brightest one of all on my part of the planet !

Really? The £ in freefall, the equivalent of 15 years EU contributions wiped off the stock market in a single day, the Brexit lying scum actually having the gall to admit they lied about the how they'd pend the £350million a day on the NHS (whoever believed that in the first place, is too stupid to be allowed a vote, in my view) amongst other lies they peddled. France overtaking us as the world's 5th largest economy, loosing our AAA credit rating....and we haven't formally said we're leaving yet.

Long term, macro-economically, means a periond of around 7-10 years, that added to the 2 year exit, means we're looking at 9-12 years of chaos and "super-austerity", with no guarentee of things improving after that time. That brightness you see on this particular part of the planet is the flash of the nuclear explosion, just before the fireball engulfs not only you, but the next generation.

Add to that the fact that Brexiters are crawling out from whatever rocks they came from and sayind "I didn't mean it" makes me ashamed of my fellow countrymen and how monumentaly stupid they've been.

The Bregretters! Meet the voters who wish they'd chosen to remain

I voted for Brexit - and now I realise what a terrible mistake I made

I don't know for certain either way on the entire thing, but I have to laugh at your post for a different reason.

It's funny how people run around "Democracy!" this, and "Democracy" that, and it's democracy wonderful, and isn't democracy fantastic, and democracy will fix everything.

Then you get the democracy you want.... and all of a sudden.... "whoever believed that in the first place, is too stupid to be allowed a vote, in my view". Suddenly you shouldn't have democracy if you believe that! And "ashamed of my fellow countrymen" who engaged in Democracy.

Funny how that works. Democracy is great and wonderful and perfect, and the solution to all problems, until.... they vote against you, and then how dare they, how stupid of them, how dumb the public is. They shouldn't have Democracy.

Dude... this is democracy. You are getting what you asked for. The public spoke. Power to the people man. That's how democracy works.

They lied about the major part of their campaign. That is not democracy it is fascism. Another referendum will happen in a couple of years. Hopefully by then people will actually understand the real consequences.

 

[Andylusion]

The EU wants the exit to take place as quickly as possible to avoid further chaos. The longer the exit lasts the more toxic it becomes. France will hold presidential elections in 2017 and Le Pen has said she wants a referendum for France. If the EU doesn't make it clear before than that leaving the EU has undesirable consequences and pushes French voters to elect someone other than Le Pen than the EU is finished.

The EU seems ready to accept any statement by the British in order to claim that notification under article 50 has been delivered:

"The European Union has clarified the way the UK can kickstart formal negotiations to exit the bloc following Thursday's referendum."

"It says Britain can trigger Article 50, which sets a two-year deadline for a deal, by making a formal declaration either in a letter or a speech."

Brexit: EU spells out procedure for UK to leave - BBC News

The EU wants them out now and will look to any justification to do so.

.

And there you have it. Confirmation that The EU is all about bullying and threatening. Even trying to interfere in national elections. May I please have your permission to forward this to Ms. Le Pen? I'm sure it would be helpful in convincing French voters that the change in national leadership has to come quickly if their freedom to vote in/out is to be maintained.

Yeah, because the UK, or any other nation, has never done that.

You flipped off the EU, and now you are complaining because they want you out even more than you want to leave?

This is how it works dude. The EU has been fighting to keep unity for several years now, and you just slapped them in the face with the biggest 'screw you' vote since the EU was formed.

Now you expect them to be happy and friendly as you leave? I'm not sure what you expected the reaction of the EU to be after spending 5 years trying to hold the EU together, only to have the UK suddenly and abruptly vacate, but your expectations are unreasonable.

Not don't get me wrong. I don't know if leaving the EU was good or bad in the long run. But spare me this complaining and moaning about how the EU is taking this badly. You should have known from the very start, that leaving the EU would have consequences, and that you were going to make a ton of people extremely upset. You made that choice, so buck up and take it, and stop whining about it.

Unity is wanted because power is wanted. It's all about power. The greater the act of subsuming a nation to your will, the greater the power exercised.

The EU is all about remolding in order to consolidate power.

The EEC was its forerunner .. existing for the purpose of facilitating trade, and simply that. It's mutated out of all recognition to become a power-hungry colossus.

The UK has a right to self-determination. Any of the EU's Member States do, and I wish them every success in gaining it. Yet ... to what extent does Brussels rule them ?

It's reckoned that it'll take around TEN years to 'de-louse' the British set of laws to remove all EU interference in our affairs, courtesy of them all !!!

In some ways, you are correct. But then, there is always a trade off. We in Ohio, could declare independence from the Union as well. And then we could make choices about immigrants, and taxes, and federal laws, and all sorts of things.

But then would we have the economic power that comes with being part of the union? Answer? Not even close.

There are always trades off in joining a group. If I join a football time, I'm going to have to show up for practice.... every practice. I'll have to deal with the freaks on the team, all of them. I'll have to wear a uniform. The trade off is that I'll end up traveling around all over the world, go to major sporting events with millions of people watching, and maybe win some trophies.

And is there consolidation of power? Sure. I have to do what the coach says too. He's got authority over me.

Does Brussels have some authority over the UK while you are part of the Union? Yes. But by any reasonable measure, the UK has had more weight on the EU, than the EU had on the UK. Historically the EU has given many concessions to the UK.

That said, it's likely that leaving the EU will isolate England, and possibly mark the end of the United Kingdom. Scotland has already signaled a possible referendum of their own to leave the UK, to stay in the EU. North Ireland has said a willingness to consider reunification with greater Ireland, to stay in the EU.

That would leave Wales, which is a spec of dust on the map, and is part of England mainland. In short, England will be an island again.

Moreover, while keeping out the immigrants seems like a bright idea in the short term, in the long run you have ruined England.

The population replacement rate is 2.1 children per woman. Today in England, the fertility rate is 1.8. And it has been below the replacement rate for many years now. The only reason England hasn't seen the dangerous economic stagnation that follows population decline that Japan has seen for decades now, is because of immigration, the exact thing you are cutting off.

So now, we're seeing the early signs of capital flight, and the next will be population flight. Immigration to the UK will be replaced with emigration from the UK.

Nothing is set in stone of course. All of this could be reversed. Only time will tell.

 

[montelatici]

Excellent overview.

 

[Andylusion]

Perhaps you might ask an adult to help you form an argument. At the moment you support the public not having the facts.

Hey Limey, get your fat ass to bed. Its late and your cognitive abilities have failed you once again.

This 'Limey' shames us other Limeys.

Fact is that we voted for, and will obtain, our freedom from a bureaucratic, largely undemocratic control-freaking colossus. One moving towards so-called 'SuperState' status, in which all its member States must march to the beat of the Brussels drum. No freedom to do otherwise.

Here's the truth. The UK, until it formally cuts ties with the EU, will have to maintain porous borders, meaning that 50 percent of all immigration is out of its control. This is unacceptable, and our electorate found it to be. They acted accordingly.

More ... the EU is a house of cards waiting to be toppled. Greece, with its small economy, nonetheless gave the EU a major headache not too long ago. Similar, but rather larger 'headaches' can be expected when other weak economies default in future. I don't believe the EU will ultimately stand up to the enormous pressures this will foist on other EU members ... and we'll see the EU eventually disintegrate.

Happily, we'll have got out in time. I believe the UK's long-term future is the brightest one of all on my part of the planet !

Really? The £ in freefall, the equivalent of 15 years EU contributions wiped off the stock market in a single day, the Brexit lying scum actually having the gall to admit they lied about the how they'd pend the £350million a day on the NHS (whoever believed that in the first place, is too stupid to be allowed a vote, in my view) amongst other lies they peddled. France overtaking us as the world's 5th largest economy, loosing our AAA credit rating....and we haven't formally said we're leaving yet.

Long term, macro-economically, means a periond of around 7-10 years, that added to the 2 year exit, means we're looking at 9-12 years of chaos and "super-austerity", with no guarentee of things improving after that time. That brightness you see on this particular part of the planet is the flash of the nuclear explosion, just before the fireball engulfs not only you, but the next generation.

Add to that the fact that Brexiters are crawling out from whatever rocks they came from and sayind "I didn't mean it" makes me ashamed of my fellow countrymen and how monumentaly stupid they've been.

The Bregretters! Meet the voters who wish they'd chosen to remain

I voted for Brexit - and now I realise what a terrible mistake I made

I don't know for certain either way on the entire thing, but I have to laugh at your post for a different reason.

It's funny how people run around "Democracy!" this, and "Democracy" that, and it's democracy wonderful, and isn't democracy fantastic, and democracy will fix everything.

Then you get the democracy you want.... and all of a sudden.... "whoever believed that in the first place, is too stupid to be allowed a vote, in my view". Suddenly you shouldn't have democracy if you believe that! And "ashamed of my fellow countrymen" who engaged in Democracy.

Funny how that works. Democracy is great and wonderful and perfect, and the solution to all problems, until.... they vote against you, and then how dare they, how stupid of them, how dumb the public is. They shouldn't have Democracy.

Dude... this is democracy. You are getting what you asked for. The public spoke. Power to the people man. That's how democracy works.

They lied about the major part of their campaign. That is not democracy it is fascism. Another referendum will happen in a couple of years. Hopefully by then people will actually understand the real consequences.

Do you really think that the EU will want you back after this? I doubt it. And if they do have you back, it most certainly won't be on any favorable terms.

Besides, where do you think all the business and banking markets are going to move to, with the UK leaving the EU? To the EU. Now surely they wouldn't want you to leave, but once you are gone, they won't have much reason to want you back. They can't trust you now. I wouldn't want you back myself.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Faisal Islam, Sky News Journalist, Says Pro-Brexit MP Told Him 'Leave Campaign Don't Have A Plan'

"
He said the pro-Leave Tory replied: “There is no plan. The Leave campaign don’t have a post-Brexit plan.”

According to Islam, the MP then pointed toward the Houses of Parliament and said: “Number 10 should have had a plan”."

How about this. The Tories are imploding (on top of Labour imploding), the economy's imploding..... well..... good time to go to Britain, to see the fireworks.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Hey Limey, get your fat ass to bed. Its late and your cognitive abilities have failed you once again.

This 'Limey' shames us other Limeys.

Fact is that we voted for, and will obtain, our freedom from a bureaucratic, largely undemocratic control-freaking colossus. One moving towards so-called 'SuperState' status, in which all its member States must march to the beat of the Brussels drum. No freedom to do otherwise.

Here's the truth. The UK, until it formally cuts ties with the EU, will have to maintain porous borders, meaning that 50 percent of all immigration is out of its control. This is unacceptable, and our electorate found it to be. They acted accordingly.

More ... the EU is a house of cards waiting to be toppled. Greece, with its small economy, nonetheless gave the EU a major headache not too long ago. Similar, but rather larger 'headaches' can be expected when other weak economies default in future. I don't believe the EU will ultimately stand up to the enormous pressures this will foist on other EU members ... and we'll see the EU eventually disintegrate.

Happily, we'll have got out in time. I believe the UK's long-term future is the brightest one of all on my part of the planet !

Really? The £ in freefall, the equivalent of 15 years EU contributions wiped off the stock market in a single day, the Brexit lying scum actually having the gall to admit they lied about the how they'd pend the £350million a day on the NHS (whoever believed that in the first place, is too stupid to be allowed a vote, in my view) amongst other lies they peddled. France overtaking us as the world's 5th largest economy, loosing our AAA credit rating....and we haven't formally said we're leaving yet.

Long term, macro-economically, means a periond of around 7-10 years, that added to the 2 year exit, means we're looking at 9-12 years of chaos and "super-austerity", with no guarentee of things improving after that time. That brightness you see on this particular part of the planet is the flash of the nuclear explosion, just before the fireball engulfs not only you, but the next generation.

Add to that the fact that Brexiters are crawling out from whatever rocks they came from and sayind "I didn't mean it" makes me ashamed of my fellow countrymen and how monumentaly stupid they've been.

The Bregretters! Meet the voters who wish they'd chosen to remain

I voted for Brexit - and now I realise what a terrible mistake I made

I don't know for certain either way on the entire thing, but I have to laugh at your post for a different reason.

It's funny how people run around "Democracy!" this, and "Democracy" that, and it's democracy wonderful, and isn't democracy fantastic, and democracy will fix everything.

Then you get the democracy you want.... and all of a sudden.... "whoever believed that in the first place, is too stupid to be allowed a vote, in my view". Suddenly you shouldn't have democracy if you believe that! And "ashamed of my fellow countrymen" who engaged in Democracy.

Funny how that works. Democracy is great and wonderful and perfect, and the solution to all problems, until.... they vote against you, and then how dare they, how stupid of them, how dumb the public is. They shouldn't have Democracy.

Dude... this is democracy. You are getting what you asked for. The public spoke. Power to the people man. That's how democracy works.

They lied about the major part of their campaign. That is not democracy it is fascism. Another referendum will happen in a couple of years. Hopefully by then people will actually understand the real consequences.

Do you really think that the EU will want you back after this? I doubt it. And if they do have you back, it most certainly won't be on any favorable terms.

Besides, where do you think all the business and banking markets are going to move to, with the UK leaving the EU? To the EU. Now surely they wouldn't want you to leave, but once you are gone, they won't have much reason to want you back. They can't trust you now. I wouldn't want you back myself.

Anyone who joins the EU now has to go into the Schengen Agreement. The UK hasn't actually declared that it's leaving, so... if there were an referendum before that, then they wouldn't be able to stop the UK staying.

However the chances of that are slim. It's general psychology. People won't like to admit their wrong no matter how bad things are, they'll continue to pretend things are good.

 

[Andylusion]

Faisal Islam, Sky News Journalist, Says Pro-Brexit MP Told Him 'Leave Campaign Don't Have A Plan'

"
He said the pro-Leave Tory replied: “There is no plan. The Leave campaign don’t have a post-Brexit plan.”

According to Islam, the MP then pointed toward the Houses of Parliament and said: “Number 10 should have had a plan”."

How about this. The Tories are imploding (on top of Labour imploding), the economy's imploding..... well..... good time to go to Britain, to see the fireworks.

The plan is to leave the EU. Gain control over immigration, control over regulation, and control over trade. That was the plan. I'm not sure what "plan" the other people expected to hear.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The EU wants the exit to take place as quickly as possible to avoid further chaos. The longer the exit lasts the more toxic it becomes. France will hold presidential elections in 2017 and Le Pen has said she wants a referendum for France. If the EU doesn't make it clear before than that leaving the EU has undesirable consequences and pushes French voters to elect someone other than Le Pen than the EU is finished.

The EU seems ready to accept any statement by the British in order to claim that notification under article 50 has been delivered:

"The European Union has clarified the way the UK can kickstart formal negotiations to exit the bloc following Thursday's referendum."

"It says Britain can trigger Article 50, which sets a two-year deadline for a deal, by making a formal declaration either in a letter or a speech."

Brexit: EU spells out procedure for UK to leave - BBC News

The EU wants them out now and will look to any justification to do so.

.

And there you have it. Confirmation that The EU is all about bullying and threatening. Even trying to interfere in national elections. May I please have your permission to forward this to Ms. Le Pen? I'm sure it would be helpful in convincing French voters that the change in national leadership has to come quickly if their freedom to vote in/out is to be maintained.

There's bullying and threatening there? Where?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Faisal Islam, Sky News Journalist, Says Pro-Brexit MP Told Him 'Leave Campaign Don't Have A Plan'

"
He said the pro-Leave Tory replied: “There is no plan. The Leave campaign don’t have a post-Brexit plan.”

According to Islam, the MP then pointed toward the Houses of Parliament and said: “Number 10 should have had a plan”."

How about this. The Tories are imploding (on top of Labour imploding), the economy's imploding..... well..... good time to go to Britain, to see the fireworks.

The plan is to leave the EU. Gain control over immigration, control over regulation, and control over trade. That was the plan. I'm not sure what "plan" the other people expected to hear.

Well.... you know, like details. Somewhere to start.

 

[Challenger]

This was published on Facebook and not written by me, but it sums up the current situation very well:

"If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected prime minister.

If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.

If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the eu market.

If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.

If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.

If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.

If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.

If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar.

And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.

Well done, Britain."

In 10-12 years time one of us will be able to post on this or another forum "I told you so" to be brutally honerst, I sincerely hope it's not me.

 

[Challenger]

Perhaps you might ask an adult to help you form an argument. At the moment you support the public not having the facts.

Hey Limey, get your fat ass to bed. Its late and your cognitive abilities have failed you once again.

This 'Limey' shames us other Limeys.

Fact is that we voted for, and will obtain, our freedom from a bureaucratic, largely undemocratic control-freaking colossus. One moving towards so-called 'SuperState' status, in which all its member States must march to the beat of the Brussels drum. No freedom to do otherwise.

Here's the truth. The UK, until it formally cuts ties with the EU, will have to maintain porous borders, meaning that 50 percent of all immigration is out of its control. This is unacceptable, and our electorate found it to be. They acted accordingly.

More ... the EU is a house of cards waiting to be toppled. Greece, with its small economy, nonetheless gave the EU a major headache not too long ago. Similar, but rather larger 'headaches' can be expected when other weak economies default in future. I don't believe the EU will ultimately stand up to the enormous pressures this will foist on other EU members ... and we'll see the EU eventually disintegrate.

Happily, we'll have got out in time. I believe the UK's long-term future is the brightest one of all on my part of the planet !

Really? The £ in freefall, the equivalent of 15 years EU contributions wiped off the stock market in a single day, the Brexit lying scum actually having the gall to admit they lied about the how they'd pend the £350million a day on the NHS (whoever believed that in the first place, is too stupid to be allowed a vote, in my view) amongst other lies they peddled. France overtaking us as the world's 5th largest economy, loosing our AAA credit rating....and we haven't formally said we're leaving yet.

Long term, macro-economically, means a periond of around 7-10 years, that added to the 2 year exit, means we're looking at 9-12 years of chaos and "super-austerity", with no guarentee of things improving after that time. That brightness you see on this particular part of the planet is the flash of the nuclear explosion, just before the fireball engulfs not only you, but the next generation.

Add to that the fact that Brexiters are crawling out from whatever rocks they came from and sayind "I didn't mean it" makes me ashamed of my fellow countrymen and how monumentaly stupid they've been.

The Bregretters! Meet the voters who wish they'd chosen to remain

I voted for Brexit - and now I realise what a terrible mistake I made

I don't know for certain either way on the entire thing, but I have to laugh at your post for a different reason.

It's funny how people run around "Democracy!" this, and "Democracy" that, and it's democracy wonderful, and isn't democracy fantastic, and democracy will fix everything.

Then you get the democracy you want.... and all of a sudden.... "whoever believed that in the first place, is too stupid to be allowed a vote, in my view". Suddenly you shouldn't have democracy if you believe that! And "ashamed of my fellow countrymen" who engaged in Democracy.

Funny how that works. Democracy is great and wonderful and perfect, and the solution to all problems, until.... they vote against you, and then how dare they, how stupid of them, how dumb the public is. They shouldn't have Democracy.

Dude... this is democracy. You are getting what you asked for. The public spoke. Power to the people man. That's how democracy works.

They lied about the major part of their campaign. That is not democracy it is fascism. Another referendum will happen in a couple of years. Hopefully by then people will actually understand the real consequences.

There won't be another referendum in two years, it'll be far too late by then.

 

[Andylusion]

Faisal Islam, Sky News Journalist, Says Pro-Brexit MP Told Him 'Leave Campaign Don't Have A Plan'

"
He said the pro-Leave Tory replied: “There is no plan. The Leave campaign don’t have a post-Brexit plan.”

According to Islam, the MP then pointed toward the Houses of Parliament and said: “Number 10 should have had a plan”."

How about this. The Tories are imploding (on top of Labour imploding), the economy's imploding..... well..... good time to go to Britain, to see the fireworks.

The plan is to leave the EU. Gain control over immigration, control over regulation, and control over trade. That was the plan. I'm not sure what "plan" the other people expected to hear.

Well.... you know, like details. Somewhere to start.

Again, I'm not sure what details you want, that are not obvious. At least it's obvious to me. You start negotiating new trade deals, to replace EU deals. You pass your own immigration laws and boarder control, to replace the EU laws. You pass your own regulations, to replace EU regulations.

All of which the government of the UK has announced starting.

Now maybe you want the details of exactly what trade agreement they will come up with. But that isn't the point to many of the Leave Campaign people. Even if they come up with a trade deal that exactly mirrors the EU deal, the point wasn't necessarily to have a different deal. The point was to have control over the deal, instead of having terms dictated by Brussels.

Even if they negotiate the same deal of free movement of people across boarders, the point was to have control over their boarders themselves.

Even if they put in place the same regulations, the point was to have control over those regulations, rather than Brussels.

It's impossible to know exactly what the details are going to be on any of this, until the negotiations are signed. That's unavoidable in any treaty negotiations.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Faisal Islam, Sky News Journalist, Says Pro-Brexit MP Told Him 'Leave Campaign Don't Have A Plan'

"
He said the pro-Leave Tory replied: “There is no plan. The Leave campaign don’t have a post-Brexit plan.”

According to Islam, the MP then pointed toward the Houses of Parliament and said: “Number 10 should have had a plan”."

How about this. The Tories are imploding (on top of Labour imploding), the economy's imploding..... well..... good time to go to Britain, to see the fireworks.

The plan is to leave the EU. Gain control over immigration, control over regulation, and control over trade. That was the plan. I'm not sure what "plan" the other people expected to hear.

Well.... you know, like details. Somewhere to start.

Again, I'm not sure what details you want, that are not obvious. At least it's obvious to me. You start negotiating new trade deals, to replace EU deals. You pass your own immigration laws and boarder control, to replace the EU laws. You pass your own regulations, to replace EU regulations.

All of which the government of the UK has announced starting.

Now maybe you want the details of exactly what trade agreement they will come up with. But that isn't the point to many of the Leave Campaign people. Even if they come up with a trade deal that exactly mirrors the EU deal, the point wasn't necessarily to have a different deal. The point was to have control over the deal, instead of having terms dictated by Brussels.

Even if they negotiate the same deal of free movement of people across boarders, the point was to have control over their boarders themselves.

Even if they put in place the same regulations, the point was to have control over those regulations, rather than Brussels.

It's impossible to know exactly what the details are going to be on any of this, until the negotiations are signed. That's unavoidable in any treaty negotiations.

What kind of immigration deal?

The UK could decide to join the Schengen Agreement. You'd want to know that if you were voting out, right? Or it could be all EU citizens out, you'd want to know that too, right? What kind of immigration? They just said "we'd control our own borders", well to be honest the UK has done that for non-EU citizens for the whole of eternity, and not done a great job of it, so what does it actually mean? What have people actually voted for? Nothing, just a "we'll control border", doesn't mean much.

 

[gipper]

The EU wants the exit to take place as quickly as possible to avoid further chaos. The longer the exit lasts the more toxic it becomes. France will hold presidential elections in 2017 and Le Pen has said she wants a referendum for France. If the EU doesn't make it clear before than that leaving the EU has undesirable consequences and pushes French voters to elect someone other than Le Pen than the EU is finished.

The EU seems ready to accept any statement by the British in order to claim that notification under article 50 has been delivered:

"The European Union has clarified the way the UK can kickstart formal negotiations to exit the bloc following Thursday's referendum."

"It says Britain can trigger Article 50, which sets a two-year deadline for a deal, by making a formal declaration either in a letter or a speech."

Brexit: EU spells out procedure for UK to leave - BBC News

The EU wants them out now and will look to any justification to do so.

.

And there you have it. Confirmation that The EU is all about bullying and threatening. Even trying to interfere in national elections. May I please have your permission to forward this to Ms. Le Pen? I'm sure it would be helpful in convincing French voters that the change in national leadership has to come quickly if their freedom to vote in/out is to be maintained.

Yeah, because the UK, or any other nation, has never done that.

You flipped off the EU, and now you are complaining because they want you out even more than you want to leave?

This is how it works dude. The EU has been fighting to keep unity for several years now, and you just slapped them in the face with the biggest 'screw you' vote since the EU was formed.

Now you expect them to be happy and friendly as you leave? I'm not sure what you expected the reaction of the EU to be after spending 5 years trying to hold the EU together, only to have the UK suddenly and abruptly vacate, but your expectations are unreasonable.

Not don't get me wrong. I don't know if leaving the EU was good or bad in the long run. But spare me this complaining and moaning about how the EU is taking this badly. You should have known from the very start, that leaving the EU would have consequences, and that you were going to make a ton of people extremely upset. You made that choice, so buck up and take it, and stop whining about it.

Unity is wanted because power is wanted. It's all about power. The greater the act of subsuming a nation to your will, the greater the power exercised.

The EU is all about remolding in order to consolidate power.

The EEC was its forerunner .. existing for the purpose of facilitating trade, and simply that. It's mutated out of all recognition to become a power-hungry colossus.

The UK has a right to self-determination. Any of the EU's Member States do, and I wish them every success in gaining it. Yet ... to what extent does Brussels rule them ?

It's reckoned that it'll take around TEN years to 'de-louse' the British set of laws to remove all EU interference in our affairs, courtesy of them all !!!

In some ways, you are correct. But then, there is always a trade off. We in Ohio, could declare independence from the Union as well. And then we could make choices about immigrants, and taxes, and federal laws, and all sorts of things.

But then would we have the economic power that comes with being part of the union? Answer? Not even close.

There are always trades off in joining a group. If I join a football time, I'm going to have to show up for practice.... every practice. I'll have to deal with the freaks on the team, all of them. I'll have to wear a uniform. The trade off is that I'll end up traveling around all over the world, go to major sporting events with millions of people watching, and maybe win some trophies.

And is there consolidation of power? Sure. I have to do what the coach says too. He's got authority over me.

Does Brussels have some authority over the UK while you are part of the Union? Yes. But by any reasonable measure, the UK has had more weight on the EU, than the EU had on the UK. Historically the EU has given many concessions to the UK.

That said, it's likely that leaving the EU will isolate England, and possibly mark the end of the United Kingdom. Scotland has already signaled a possible referendum of their own to leave the UK, to stay in the EU. North Ireland has said a willingness to consider reunification with greater Ireland, to stay in the EU.

That would leave Wales, which is a spec of dust on the map, and is part of England mainland. In short, England will be an island again.

Moreover, while keeping out the immigrants seems like a bright idea in the short term, in the long run you have ruined England.

The population replacement rate is 2.1 children per woman. Today in England, the fertility rate is 1.8. And it has been below the replacement rate for many years now. The only reason England hasn't seen the dangerous economic stagnation that follows population decline that Japan has seen for decades now, is because of immigration, the exact thing you are cutting off.

So now, we're seeing the early signs of capital flight, and the next will be population flight. Immigration to the UK will be replaced with emigration from the UK.

Nothing is set in stone of course. All of this could be reversed. Only time will tell.

Great Britain did quite well for many centuries and was not part of a union of other nations, ruled by unaccountable elites with unlimited power. This belief that nations must centralize to thrive, is foolish and dangerous.

To think GB must have immigration to stay economically viable and increase population, is silly and factually incorrect. Reduce the burden of government and the people will thrive. Socialism destroys the will of the people, resulting in economic and demographic stagnation..clearly evident throughout western Europe. This is known by anyone who bothers to study Socialism, but the elites love socialism because it gives them all the power and they easily dupe a good percentage of the people into their tyrannical ways.

 

[Bleipriester]

The EU wants the exit to take place as quickly as possible to avoid further chaos. The longer the exit lasts the more toxic it becomes. France will hold presidential elections in 2017 and Le Pen has said she wants a referendum for France. If the EU doesn't make it clear before than that leaving the EU has undesirable consequences and pushes French voters to elect someone other than Le Pen than the EU is finished.

The EU seems ready to accept any statement by the British in order to claim that notification under article 50 has been delivered:

"The European Union has clarified the way the UK can kickstart formal negotiations to exit the bloc following Thursday's referendum."

"It says Britain can trigger Article 50, which sets a two-year deadline for a deal, by making a formal declaration either in a letter or a speech."

Brexit: EU spells out procedure for UK to leave - BBC News

The EU wants them out now and will look to any justification to do so.

.

And there you have it. Confirmation that The EU is all about bullying and threatening. Even trying to interfere in national elections. May I please have your permission to forward this to Ms. Le Pen? I'm sure it would be helpful in convincing French voters that the change in national leadership has to come quickly if their freedom to vote in/out is to be maintained.

Yeah, because the UK, or any other nation, has never done that.

You flipped off the EU, and now you are complaining because they want you out even more than you want to leave?

This is how it works dude. The EU has been fighting to keep unity for several years now, and you just slapped them in the face with the biggest 'screw you' vote since the EU was formed.

Now you expect them to be happy and friendly as you leave? I'm not sure what you expected the reaction of the EU to be after spending 5 years trying to hold the EU together, only to have the UK suddenly and abruptly vacate, but your expectations are unreasonable.

Not don't get me wrong. I don't know if leaving the EU was good or bad in the long run. But spare me this complaining and moaning about how the EU is taking this badly. You should have known from the very start, that leaving the EU would have consequences, and that you were going to make a ton of people extremely upset. You made that choice, so buck up and take it, and stop whining about it.

Unity is wanted because power is wanted. It's all about power. The greater the act of subsuming a nation to your will, the greater the power exercised.

The EU is all about remolding in order to consolidate power.

The EEC was its forerunner .. existing for the purpose of facilitating trade, and simply that. It's mutated out of all recognition to become a power-hungry colossus.

The UK has a right to self-determination. Any of the EU's Member States do, and I wish them every success in gaining it. Yet ... to what extent does Brussels rule them ?

It's reckoned that it'll take around TEN years to 'de-louse' the British set of laws to remove all EU interference in our affairs, courtesy of them all !!!

In some ways, you are correct. But then, there is always a trade off. We in Ohio, could declare independence from the Union as well. And then we could make choices about immigrants, and taxes, and federal laws, and all sorts of things.

But then would we have the economic power that comes with being part of the union? Answer? Not even close.

There are always trades off in joining a group. If I join a football time, I'm going to have to show up for practice.... every practice. I'll have to deal with the freaks on the team, all of them. I'll have to wear a uniform. The trade off is that I'll end up traveling around all over the world, go to major sporting events with millions of people watching, and maybe win some trophies.

And is there consolidation of power? Sure. I have to do what the coach says too. He's got authority over me.

Does Brussels have some authority over the UK while you are part of the Union? Yes. But by any reasonable measure, the UK has had more weight on the EU, than the EU had on the UK. Historically the EU has given many concessions to the UK.

That said, it's likely that leaving the EU will isolate England, and possibly mark the end of the United Kingdom. Scotland has already signaled a possible referendum of their own to leave the UK, to stay in the EU. North Ireland has said a willingness to consider reunification with greater Ireland, to stay in the EU.

That would leave Wales, which is a spec of dust on the map, and is part of England mainland. In short, England will be an island again.

Moreover, while keeping out the immigrants seems like a bright idea in the short term, in the long run you have ruined England.

The population replacement rate is 2.1 children per woman. Today in England, the fertility rate is 1.8. And it has been below the replacement rate for many years now. The only reason England hasn't seen the dangerous economic stagnation that follows population decline that Japan has seen for decades now, is because of immigration, the exact thing you are cutting off.

So now, we're seeing the early signs of capital flight, and the next will be population flight. Immigration to the UK will be replaced with emigration from the UK.

Nothing is set in stone of course. All of this could be reversed. Only time will tell.

Great Britain did quite well for many centuries and was not part of a union of other nations, ruled by unaccountable elites with unlimited power. This belief that nations must centralize to thrive, is foolish and dangerous.

To think GB must have immigration to stay economically viable and increase population, is silly and factually incorrect. Reduce the burden of government and the people will thrive. Socialism destroys the will of the people, resulting in economic and demographic stagnation..clearly evident throughout western Europe. This is known by anyone who bothers to study Socialism, but the elites love socialism because it gives them all the power and they easily dupe a good percentage of the people into their tyrannical ways.

EU is economical neoliberal, not socialist. It is furthermore not the type of government that leads to oppression but the way the leaders rule. Socialism was invented for the people, it is basically a good idea. However, when it results in seizing even the smallest property and in incarceration of critics, they didn´t understand the idea of socialism.

 

[gipper]

And there you have it. Confirmation that The EU is all about bullying and threatening. Even trying to interfere in national elections. May I please have your permission to forward this to Ms. Le Pen? I'm sure it would be helpful in convincing French voters that the change in national leadership has to come quickly if their freedom to vote in/out is to be maintained.

Yeah, because the UK, or any other nation, has never done that.

You flipped off the EU, and now you are complaining because they want you out even more than you want to leave?

This is how it works dude. The EU has been fighting to keep unity for several years now, and you just slapped them in the face with the biggest 'screw you' vote since the EU was formed.

Now you expect them to be happy and friendly as you leave? I'm not sure what you expected the reaction of the EU to be after spending 5 years trying to hold the EU together, only to have the UK suddenly and abruptly vacate, but your expectations are unreasonable.

Not don't get me wrong. I don't know if leaving the EU was good or bad in the long run. But spare me this complaining and moaning about how the EU is taking this badly. You should have known from the very start, that leaving the EU would have consequences, and that you were going to make a ton of people extremely upset. You made that choice, so buck up and take it, and stop whining about it.

Unity is wanted because power is wanted. It's all about power. The greater the act of subsuming a nation to your will, the greater the power exercised.

The EU is all about remolding in order to consolidate power.

The EEC was its forerunner .. existing for the purpose of facilitating trade, and simply that. It's mutated out of all recognition to become a power-hungry colossus.

The UK has a right to self-determination. Any of the EU's Member States do, and I wish them every success in gaining it. Yet ... to what extent does Brussels rule them ?

It's reckoned that it'll take around TEN years to 'de-louse' the British set of laws to remove all EU interference in our affairs, courtesy of them all !!!

In some ways, you are correct. But then, there is always a trade off. We in Ohio, could declare independence from the Union as well. And then we could make choices about immigrants, and taxes, and federal laws, and all sorts of things.

But then would we have the economic power that comes with being part of the union? Answer? Not even close.

There are always trades off in joining a group. If I join a football time, I'm going to have to show up for practice.... every practice. I'll have to deal with the freaks on the team, all of them. I'll have to wear a uniform. The trade off is that I'll end up traveling around all over the world, go to major sporting events with millions of people watching, and maybe win some trophies.

And is there consolidation of power? Sure. I have to do what the coach says too. He's got authority over me.

Does Brussels have some authority over the UK while you are part of the Union? Yes. But by any reasonable measure, the UK has had more weight on the EU, than the EU had on the UK. Historically the EU has given many concessions to the UK.

That said, it's likely that leaving the EU will isolate England, and possibly mark the end of the United Kingdom. Scotland has already signaled a possible referendum of their own to leave the UK, to stay in the EU. North Ireland has said a willingness to consider reunification with greater Ireland, to stay in the EU.

That would leave Wales, which is a spec of dust on the map, and is part of England mainland. In short, England will be an island again.

Moreover, while keeping out the immigrants seems like a bright idea in the short term, in the long run you have ruined England.

The population replacement rate is 2.1 children per woman. Today in England, the fertility rate is 1.8. And it has been below the replacement rate for many years now. The only reason England hasn't seen the dangerous economic stagnation that follows population decline that Japan has seen for decades now, is because of immigration, the exact thing you are cutting off.

So now, we're seeing the early signs of capital flight, and the next will be population flight. Immigration to the UK will be replaced with emigration from the UK.

Nothing is set in stone of course. All of this could be reversed. Only time will tell.

Great Britain did quite well for many centuries and was not part of a union of other nations, ruled by unaccountable elites with unlimited power. This belief that nations must centralize to thrive, is foolish and dangerous.

To think GB must have immigration to stay economically viable and increase population, is silly and factually incorrect. Reduce the burden of government and the people will thrive. Socialism destroys the will of the people, resulting in economic and demographic stagnation..clearly evident throughout western Europe. This is known by anyone who bothers to study Socialism, but the elites love socialism because it gives them all the power and they easily dupe a good percentage of the people into their tyrannical ways.

EU is economical neoliberal, not socialist. It is furthermore not the type of government that leads to oppression but the way the leaders rule. Socialism was invented for the people, it is basically a good idea. However, when it results in seizing even the smallest property and in incarceration of critics, they didn´t understand the idea of socialism.

Whatever you prefer to call it, is fine by me. Essentially socialism in practice is centralizing power into the hands of a few elites, which is why elites love it. It is big unaccountable unlimited government and this form of government never works well, for a majority of the people.

 

[Drummond]

This was published on Facebook and not written by me, but it sums up the current situation very well:

"If you voted out because of "unelected politicians" then well done because we're about to get an unelected prime minister.

If you voted out because of immigration then well done, because you just lost the right of free movement too. Just wait 'til you have to get a visa to go to Glasgow or Belfast.

If you voted out because people were "stealing your jobs" then well done, because you're about to see Germany and France "steal" Nissan and a bunch of other companies who only manufacture here as a gateway to the eu market.

If you voted out because you think we'll get a great trade deal with the EEA "like Norway did", think again. Take a look around your Sainsbury's Local and try and find any fruit and veg that's grown in the UK. We need them more than they need us, and like the EEA, we'll have to accept EU policies like free movement as part of a trade deal anyway - except now we won't be able to have any say in them.

If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.

If you voted out because Farage promised £350m for the NHS, then I'm sure you'll be happy to watch him on This Morning revealing that that was a lie.

If you voted out and you're heading into retirement, then great job! Because now the working people of this nation will break their backs to afford your pension without the influx of young, economically active and skilled EU migrants.

If you voted out because you think we'll be better off, the £ has just fallen by 8% against the dollar.

And if you voted out because you love this country, prepare to see it crumble, with threats of a unified Ireland and an independent Scotland just hours after the result was confirmed.

Well done, Britain."

In 10-12 years time one of us will be able to post on this or another forum "I told you so" to be brutally honerst, I sincerely hope it's not me.

The British people voted for freedom from EU tyranny. To be free to fully govern ourselves. They did so democratically, and as part of a process which should receive all proper respect. Those refusing to show respect for such a process are, at bare minimum, engaging in 'sour grapes', and uselessly. The decision's been made - live with it.

As for this, from the above ...

'If you voted out because of vague scaremongering headlines like "Migrant Crisis" then please, feel free to remind me when it was that Syria joined the EU.'

... that surely has its 'funny' side ?

Syria didn't 'join' the EU through democratic process. But millions of their people did decide to 'join' us, or more precisely, to force themselves upon us. The EU's response to that invasion: accommodate them. Berate countries resisting the demand to 'take their share'.

Member States didn't ask for any of this, but the control-freaking EU still demanded that they all do their 'share' to take them. Those people are largely unvetted (how can you properly check such numbers, and from a war-torn country where it must be nearly impossible to get such information, freely and efficiently ?). Unvetted or not, the EU still chose its path. And - to all intents and purposes, it may well make sense to say that Syria 'did join'.

Let's say ... 'they voted with their feet'. How about that ?

In the meantime, the UK has voted for greater immigration control. We have that right, and we've exercised it. You don't like it ? Tough ....

 

[Bleipriester]

Yeah, because the UK, or any other nation, has never done that.

You flipped off the EU, and now you are complaining because they want you out even more than you want to leave?

This is how it works dude. The EU has been fighting to keep unity for several years now, and you just slapped them in the face with the biggest 'screw you' vote since the EU was formed.

Now you expect them to be happy and friendly as you leave? I'm not sure what you expected the reaction of the EU to be after spending 5 years trying to hold the EU together, only to have the UK suddenly and abruptly vacate, but your expectations are unreasonable.

Not don't get me wrong. I don't know if leaving the EU was good or bad in the long run. But spare me this complaining and moaning about how the EU is taking this badly. You should have known from the very start, that leaving the EU would have consequences, and that you were going to make a ton of people extremely upset. You made that choice, so buck up and take it, and stop whining about it.

Unity is wanted because power is wanted. It's all about power. The greater the act of subsuming a nation to your will, the greater the power exercised.

The EU is all about remolding in order to consolidate power.

The EEC was its forerunner .. existing for the purpose of facilitating trade, and simply that. It's mutated out of all recognition to become a power-hungry colossus.

The UK has a right to self-determination. Any of the EU's Member States do, and I wish them every success in gaining it. Yet ... to what extent does Brussels rule them ?

It's reckoned that it'll take around TEN years to 'de-louse' the British set of laws to remove all EU interference in our affairs, courtesy of them all !!!

In some ways, you are correct. But then, there is always a trade off. We in Ohio, could declare independence from the Union as well. And then we could make choices about immigrants, and taxes, and federal laws, and all sorts of things.

But then would we have the economic power that comes with being part of the union? Answer? Not even close.

There are always trades off in joining a group. If I join a football time, I'm going to have to show up for practice.... every practice. I'll have to deal with the freaks on the team, all of them. I'll have to wear a uniform. The trade off is that I'll end up traveling around all over the world, go to major sporting events with millions of people watching, and maybe win some trophies.

And is there consolidation of power? Sure. I have to do what the coach says too. He's got authority over me.

Does Brussels have some authority over the UK while you are part of the Union? Yes. But by any reasonable measure, the UK has had more weight on the EU, than the EU had on the UK. Historically the EU has given many concessions to the UK.

That said, it's likely that leaving the EU will isolate England, and possibly mark the end of the United Kingdom. Scotland has already signaled a possible referendum of their own to leave the UK, to stay in the EU. North Ireland has said a willingness to consider reunification with greater Ireland, to stay in the EU.

That would leave Wales, which is a spec of dust on the map, and is part of England mainland. In short, England will be an island again.

Moreover, while keeping out the immigrants seems like a bright idea in the short term, in the long run you have ruined England.

The population replacement rate is 2.1 children per woman. Today in England, the fertility rate is 1.8. And it has been below the replacement rate for many years now. The only reason England hasn't seen the dangerous economic stagnation that follows population decline that Japan has seen for decades now, is because of immigration, the exact thing you are cutting off.

So now, we're seeing the early signs of capital flight, and the next will be population flight. Immigration to the UK will be replaced with emigration from the UK.

Nothing is set in stone of course. All of this could be reversed. Only time will tell.

Great Britain did quite well for many centuries and was not part of a union of other nations, ruled by unaccountable elites with unlimited power. This belief that nations must centralize to thrive, is foolish and dangerous.

To think GB must have immigration to stay economically viable and increase population, is silly and factually incorrect. Reduce the burden of government and the people will thrive. Socialism destroys the will of the people, resulting in economic and demographic stagnation..clearly evident throughout western Europe. This is known by anyone who bothers to study Socialism, but the elites love socialism because it gives them all the power and they easily dupe a good percentage of the people into their tyrannical ways.

EU is economical neoliberal, not socialist. It is furthermore not the type of government that leads to oppression but the way the leaders rule. Socialism was invented for the people, it is basically a good idea. However, when it results in seizing even the smallest property and in incarceration of critics, they didn´t understand the idea of socialism.

Whatever you prefer to call it, is fine by me. Essentially socialism in practice is centralizing power into the hands of a few elites, which is why elites love it. It is big unaccountable unlimited government and this form of government never works well, for a majority of the people.

This is not correct. Example: In the 50´s the GDR government attempted to increase working time but the unions didn´t sign and it wasn´t implemented. The Soviet T-34 were rolling in, though, but when they got how things were working there, they slowly rolled home. This despite the GDR was not a very democratic state.