BUILD THE WALL. I don't give a damn who pays for it. Me, you or the man on the moon. Build it.

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Just curious for those who oppose Trumps building a wall what plan if any would you want to see Implemented to improve border security and slow down illegal Immigration?

Arrest, have a trial, fine, and imprison employers that hire illegals. Remove the reason they come.

Trump seems to be creating a huge reason for them to head north, the falling peso, rising dollar, and the likelihood of a recession in Mexico. The reverse flow of illegal immigrants that Trump was counting on has stopped. There is little reason for Mexicans to head home and added reason for Mexicans to head north while Trump plans his big beautiful wall.

The lefty talking point is that Mexico will EASILY be able to replace any trade lost with America.

You are admitting that Trump has leverage over Mexico.

I disagree, lost of trade with the US will hurt Mexico, more than US, it will likely lead to a recession and create a huge incentive for the poor to migrate north and will stop the reverse migration that started about 3 years ago. Mexico will surely retaliate hurting both countries.

Reverse migration lolololololololololololofuckingl

 

[Flopper]

The funniest thing about this wall is that if it is built, it isn't going to stop a significant amount of illegal immigration.

It'll be nothing more than a $15 billion waste...a permanent monument to the stupidity of conservatives!

It's always been a stupid idea. It is not the wall that stops them, it's guard towers. Walls and fences are just a method of delaying the intrusion. Now if the plan were to put guard towers every hundred yards or so, then that would be effective. Of course 50,000 of them might be considered to be a bit to expensive.

You disbelief in the stone age technology of Walls is pretty funny.

Does that technology include airplanes that fly over them and ladder trucks to breach them, and tunneling rigs to go under them?

Yes.

If illegals are forced to pay for plane tickets, that is a hurdle for them, AND they end up at airports where they have to pass though security.

If Illegals try to drive ladder trucks up to the Wall, getting the truck is an expense AND they might not be taking that truck home, if they get caught.

Tunnels? Digging takes time. Time leads to getting caught. Time reduces flow. Getting caught reduces flow.

Coyotes now charge $250 to $500 leaving from Mexico and $1000 to $1500 from Central American. When the costs rise, then there's the 88,000 miles of US shore line which is virtually unprotected compared to a walled boarder.

Almost 50% of illegal immigrants come into the country legally through work permits and other visas but fail to leave when they expire. The wall will do nothing for this problem except make it harder to leave.

To illustrate how really ridiculous this wall is, consider the following. Pew estimates that the average yearly number of illegal immigrants from all countries entering by all means is 300,000/yr (180,000 crossing our southern boarder). That would amount to 493/day or only one illegal entry for every 4 miles of boarder wall at 7.5 million dolars a mile using McConnell's estimate of the cost of the wall as 15 billion. Do you realize just how expensive and ridiculous this is, particular when you consider that the wall will make it very difficult for the 178,000 that leave every year to do so?
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

 

[Flopper]

I said it was the latest plan not the only plan. To my knowledge Trump has not put forward an alternate plan other than the Mexican goverment forking over billions of dollars which seems a bit unlikely.

However, the GOP has a plan in which firms that import goods or services from abroad would not be able to count those costs against their overall profits. In effect, corporations would be paying taxes on the value of anything they buy from abroad. This is a rather clever sleight of hand that would allow Trump to claim Mexico is paying for the wall when in reality American corporations and thus consumers would be.

I think what the Trump administration is ignoring is that while they make plans for their great beautiful 2000 mile wall, the Mexican Peso is falling like a rock. The knee jerk reaction is of course, so what. However, the falling value of the peso and thus the rise in value of the US dollar is very likely to stem the tide of the voluntary return of illegal immigrants back to Mexico. This has always been a key part of Trump's deportation plan. As the Mexican economy weakens and tens of millions of Mexicans head north, Trump's beautiful peaceful migration of illegal immigrants south, may well turn into something quite different.

Trump’s spokesman’s ‘easy way’ to make Mexico pay for the wall has been revealed

That's great, but it is not the responsibility of the US - or its taxpayers like me - to provide an economy for the mass poor of mexico to take advantage of. Its time for the Mexican and central american governments to start building functional societies and not depend upon the hated white gringo america to support them.

I agree. However, it should not be the responsibility of Mexico to secure the US boarder just because the US is either too inept or chooses not to spend the money to do so.

 

[Yarddog]

I guess all that bitching about the debt and unfunded gov spending really was bull.shit . The rights hypocrisy knows no bounds .

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home | Daily Mail Online

so about 20 billion going to Mexico each year. maybe we should just add an extra tax on this I'm sure it could generate at least a few hundred million a year towards the wall. at least.

How is the government going to tax an illegal immigrant?

tax the western union transaction

An the US mail, Internet transactions, business transactions, and Mexican embassy and consulate diplomatic communications? Nope.

SO do what you can. Right now a lot of money is sent Western Union or Money Gram. They will continue to do it even with a tax because you can send money in minutes

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Actually Trump will leave our children with the bill. And that sucks.

I don't care. Build the fucking thing.

American conservatism in a nutshell. "I don't care" about spending, as long as it's a government boondoggle I like.

American liberalism in a nutshell. Looking for any excuse to undermine a policy that will be good for America and Americans.

Swing and a miss.

IF by that you mean "Home run".

Do you often get your sports metaphors mixed up?

 

[Correll]

The funniest thing about this wall is that if it is built, it isn't going to stop a significant amount of illegal immigration.

It'll be nothing more than a $15 billion waste...a permanent monument to the stupidity of conservatives!

It's always been a stupid idea. It is not the wall that stops them, it's guard towers. Walls and fences are just a method of delaying the intrusion. Now if the plan were to put guard towers every hundred yards or so, then that would be effective. Of course 50,000 of them might be considered to be a bit to expensive.

You disbelief in the stone age technology of Walls is pretty funny.

Does that technology include airplanes that fly over them and ladder trucks to breach them, and tunneling rigs to go under them?

Yes.

If illegals are forced to pay for plane tickets, that is a hurdle for them, AND they end up at airports where they have to pass though security.

If Illegals try to drive ladder trucks up to the Wall, getting the truck is an expense AND they might not be taking that truck home, if they get caught.

Tunnels? Digging takes time. Time leads to getting caught. Time reduces flow. Getting caught reduces flow.

Coyotes now charge $250 to $500 leaving from Mexico and $1000 to $1500 from Central American. When the costs rise, then there's the 88,000 miles of US shore line which is virtually unprotected compared to a walled boarder.

Almost 50% of illegal immigrants come into the country legally through work permits and other visas but fail to leave when they expire. The wall will do nothing for this problem except make it harder to leave.

To illustrate how really ridiculous this wall is, consider the following. Pew estimates that the average yearly number of illegal immigrants from all countries entering by all means is 300,000/yr (180,000 crossing our southern boarder). That would amount to 493/day or only one illegal entry for every 4 miles of boarder wall at 7.5 million dolars a mile using McConnell's estimate of the cost of the wall as 15 billion. Do you realize just how expensive and ridiculous this is, particular when you consider that the wall will make it very difficult for the 178,000 that leave every year to do so?
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

1. Increasing price normally leads to decreased sales. That's the point.

2. Yes. The wall not address all illegals.

3. Your concern about cost is noted, but not very credible with a federal budget rapidly approaching 4 trillion dollars a year.

 

[Correll]

I said it was the latest plan not the only plan. To my knowledge Trump has not put forward an alternate plan other than the Mexican goverment forking over billions of dollars which seems a bit unlikely.

However, the GOP has a plan in which firms that import goods or services from abroad would not be able to count those costs against their overall profits. In effect, corporations would be paying taxes on the value of anything they buy from abroad. This is a rather clever sleight of hand that would allow Trump to claim Mexico is paying for the wall when in reality American corporations and thus consumers would be.

I think what the Trump administration is ignoring is that while they make plans for their great beautiful 2000 mile wall, the Mexican Peso is falling like a rock. The knee jerk reaction is of course, so what. However, the falling value of the peso and thus the rise in value of the US dollar is very likely to stem the tide of the voluntary return of illegal immigrants back to Mexico. This has always been a key part of Trump's deportation plan. As the Mexican economy weakens and tens of millions of Mexicans head north, Trump's beautiful peaceful migration of illegal immigrants south, may well turn into something quite different.

Trump’s spokesman’s ‘easy way’ to make Mexico pay for the wall has been revealed

That's great, but it is not the responsibility of the US - or its taxpayers like me - to provide an economy for the mass poor of mexico to take advantage of. Its time for the Mexican and central american governments to start building functional societies and not depend upon the hated white gringo america to support them.

I agree. However, it should not be the responsibility of Mexico to secure the US boarder just because the US is either too inept or chooses not to spend the money to do so.

Their actions, such as choosing to violate our Sovereignty, is their responsibility.

 

[Correll]

I don't care. Build the fucking thing.

American conservatism in a nutshell. "I don't care" about spending, as long as it's a government boondoggle I like.

American liberalism in a nutshell. Looking for any excuse to undermine a policy that will be good for America and Americans.

Swing and a miss.

IF by that you mean "Home run".

Do you often get your sports metaphors mixed up?

Swing and a miss, that wasn't a baseball metaphor? What, are you like the world's worst golfer? An incompetent carpenter?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

American conservatism in a nutshell. "I don't care" about spending, as long as it's a government boondoggle I like.

American liberalism in a nutshell. Looking for any excuse to undermine a policy that will be good for America and Americans.

Swing and a miss.

IF by that you mean "Home run".

Do you often get your sports metaphors mixed up?

Swing and a miss, that wasn't a baseball metaphor? What, are you like the world's worst golfer? An incompetent carpenter?

 

[Correll]

American liberalism in a nutshell. Looking for any excuse to undermine a policy that will be good for America and Americans.

Swing and a miss.

IF by that you mean "Home run".

Do you often get your sports metaphors mixed up?

Swing and a miss, that wasn't a baseball metaphor? What, are you like the world's worst golfer? An incompetent carpenter?

Man accused of rape had been deported or removed from the country 19 times


"An illegal immigrant from Mexico who is accused of raping a 13-year-old girl on a Greyhound bus in Kansas had previously left and returned to the United States a combined 19 times.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Swing and a miss.

IF by that you mean "Home run".

Do you often get your sports metaphors mixed up?

Swing and a miss, that wasn't a baseball metaphor? What, are you like the world's worst golfer? An incompetent carpenter?

Man accused of rape had been deported or removed from the country 19 times


"An illegal immigrant from Mexico who is accused of raping a 13-year-old girl on a Greyhound bus in Kansas had previously left and returned to the United States a combined 19 times.

That's awful and weird of you to share.

 

[Lakhota]

Yeah, build the wall...

 

[Norman]

Yeah, build the wall...

Is this a picture of liberal parenting... by a single mother?

Like most things, you are doing it severely wrong. How that has bearing on the wall, no one knows. I suppose you associate such traumatic event with the loss of illegal votes acclaimed by the democratic party. Winning without cheating would be impossible...

 

[BrokeLoser]

I guess all that bitching about the debt and unfunded gov spending really was bull.shit . The rights hypocrisy knows no bounds .

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home | Daily Mail Online

so about 20 billion going to Mexico each year. maybe we should just add an extra tax on this I'm sure it could generate at least a few hundred million a year towards the wall. at least.

How is the government going to tax an illegal immigrant?

Inflate tax percentages on Bud Lights, Tapatio, L.A. Dodger hats, Oakland Raider attire, soccer balls, Pit Bulls, Chihuahua's and turquoise house paint...DONE

 

[Flopper]

Just curious for those who oppose Trumps building a wall what plan if any would you want to see Implemented to improve border security and slow down illegal Immigration?

Arrest, have a trial, fine, and imprison employers that hire illegals. Remove the reason they come.

Trump seems to be creating a huge reason for them to head north, the falling peso, rising dollar, and the likelihood of a recession in Mexico. The reverse flow of illegal immigrants that Trump was counting on has stopped. There is little reason for Mexicans to head home and added reason for Mexicans to head north while Trump plans his big beautiful wall.

The lefty talking point is that Mexico will EASILY be able to replace any trade lost with America.

You are admitting that Trump has leverage over Mexico.

I disagree, lost of trade with the US will hurt Mexico, more than US, it will likely lead to a recession and create a huge incentive for the poor to migrate north and will stop the reverse migration that started about 3 years ago. Mexico will surely retaliate hurting both countries.

Or they could just give US what we want.

What do we really want from Mexico? A check for 15 billion, 25 billion, 35 billion and for what exactly? We really don't know how much money we are trying extort out of them.

Any amount really doesn't seem likely. The GDP per ca-pita in Mexico has been falling and unemployment has been rising for the last 2 years. The stock market is down as is industrial production. About the only thing that is up is up is unemployment and public debt which has risen by 25% in the last 3 years. Currently nearly a half of the population is living in poverty and most the rest are not too far behind. The chance of Mexico yielding to extortion from the US is just about zero and Trump must surely know that.

It's quite likely that if the US continues there threats against Mexico, the country will fall into a deep recession sending millions of poor Mexicans north for US to deal with. Reactions are likely to be against US corporations such as Walmart with 2400 stores in Mexico and several thousand other US businesses in Mexico as well over 2 million US citizens living there.

The DEA activities in Mexico would likely cease as well as cooperation with US immigration. Working agreements with dozens of US agencies from the CDC to the Dept of Commerce would likely cease.

 

[Dschrute3]

There are ways to make Mexico pay. I'm sure Trump will explore the options. But that being said, at this point i just want it done. Build the wall, secure the border. Do whatever it takes to get it done. I don't wanna hear anymore excuses. If Trump puts in the effort to rebuild Obama's dismantled Immigration System, he'll always have my support.

 

[Flopper]

I guess all that bitching about the debt and unfunded gov spending really was bull.shit . The rights hypocrisy knows no bounds .

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home | Daily Mail Online

so about 20 billion going to Mexico each year. maybe we should just add an extra tax on this I'm sure it could generate at least a few hundred million a year towards the wall. at least.

How is the government going to tax an illegal immigrant?

tax the western union transaction

An the US mail, Internet transactions, business transactions, and Mexican embassy and consulate diplomatic communications? Nope.

SO do what you can. Right now a lot of money is sent Western Union or Money Gram. They will continue to do it even with a tax because you can send money in minutes

The problem is that there is no way to tell who is an illegal immigrant sending money home. So US citizens and businesses would pay most of the tax. Who knows how illegal immigrants will send money home. The simplest way although not the most secure is to put money in an envelope and mail it come. Keep in mind that about 40% of illegal immigrants are not from Mexico. They are primarily from Central America but can be from any country. Of course any Mexican consulate could carry out the transaction. Also money can wired to almost any country and rewired to Mexico or wherever with an additional fee.

 

[Dschrute3]

If you build it, they will come...



But they won't get in so easily anymore.

 

[Spare_change]

Revealed: How immigrants in America are sending $120 BILLION to their struggling families back home | Daily Mail Online

so about 20 billion going to Mexico each year. maybe we should just add an extra tax on this I'm sure it could generate at least a few hundred million a year towards the wall. at least.

How is the government going to tax an illegal immigrant?

tax the western union transaction

An the US mail, Internet transactions, business transactions, and Mexican embassy and consulate diplomatic communications? Nope.

SO do what you can. Right now a lot of money is sent Western Union or Money Gram. They will continue to do it even with a tax because you can send money in minutes

The problem is that there is no way to tell who is an illegal immigrant sending money home. So US citizens and businesses would pay most of the tax. Who knows how illegal immigrants will send money home. The simplest way although not the most secure is to put money in an envelope and mail it come. Keep in mind that about 40% of illegal immigrants are not from Mexico. They are primarily from Central America but can be from any country. Of course any Mexican consulate could carry out the transaction. Also money can wired to almost any country and rewired to Mexico or wherever with an additional fee.

Nobody cares WHERE they're from .... we just want them GONE.

 

[Flopper]

There are ways to make Mexico pay. I'm sure Trump will explore the options. But that being said, at this point i just want it done. Build the wall, secure the border. Do whatever it takes to get it done. I don't wanna hear anymore excuses. If Trump puts in the effort to rebuild Obama's dismantled Immigration System, he'll always have my support.

Trump will face a backlash from congress who has never been very receptive to building a wall. Now if there was an iron clad reimbursement program, I think most republicans would support it. However with a program that Republicans have estimated to cost 15 to 25 billion that could possibly run twice that, it would be a hard sell to congress without guaranteed reimbursement.

Since it took 6 years to build a 700 mile fence, how long would it take to build a 2000 mile wall which would include both fencing and road as well the wall. Since 1000 miles of the wall would crisscross through hundreds of parcels of private property, environmental sensitive areas, and Indian land, court challenges, negotiations, and eminent domain could take years. It really seem unlikely that the project could be complete during Trump's term in office no matter how much Trump pushed it. And we know what would happen to the project once democrats got control of any branch of government.