BUILD THE WALL. I don't give a damn who pays for it. Me, you or the man on the moon. Build it.

[Unkotare]

gn f

Who cares. It isn't as if you do. You are just looking for a way to demean a Republican.

Demean a Republican for lying?

lol

The wall is moving forward. Congress is set to act on providing financing and work will begin in months. No lies in any of that. As I said, you're just out to call names against a Republican. You have nothing of substance to add to anything.

It could be kinda cool. I know people who were present when the Berlin Wall came down. Maybe I'll have the chance to watch this one fall.

Yeah, because people trying to flee the most repressive regime this world has ever seen is the equivalent of a nation trying to protect its own interests. Hey, maybe it will come true for you. America is the land of dreams.

Home of the free, land of the brave, hiding behind a wall.

Fucking ignorant cowards.

Weak appeal to emotion = fail

 

[Unkotare]

It's quite likely that if the US continues there threats against Mexico, the country will fall into a deep recession sending millions of poor Mexicans north for US to deal with. Reactions are likely to be against US corporations such as Walmart with 2400 stores in Mexico and several thousand other US businesses in Mexico as well over 2 million US citizens living there. The DEA activities in Mexico would likely cease as well as cooperation with US immigration. Working agreements with dozens of US agencies from the CDC to the Dept of Commerce would likely cease.

Wrong, on many levels.

Its interesting how the left attacks the US and West for imperially stealing resources from poor countries - but not for taking their most valuable resource - their people.

By acting as a safety valve for the poor countries, it relieves them of the responsibility of building functional societies, as the rich elite in them can keep stealing from their country, and the mass poor get supported by the US. If the people are stuck in those countries, they will rise up and force those nations' governments to operate legitimately. An eternal safety valve is not a realistic option for the US, and it is long past time for these countries to grow up and feed their own.

Suggesting that ALL poor people from these countries end up in the US is just stupid.

 

[dblack]

Weak appeal to emotion = fail

I agree. It's all about appeasing the childish fears of the rednecks. But they vote.

 

[Windship]

Lmao! You rumpies are not seeing what he said. mr rump said that he will deport then let them all right back in with visas...lol, whats the fucking difference? Whatever he does you can be sure that the American Worker will continue to be crapped on. "Promise" No.68. Deport the almost 11 million immigrants illegally living in the United States.
Promise No 70. Continue to allow lowly paid foreign workers to come to the United States on temporary works visas because Trump says they are the only ones who want to pick grapes.

 

[Correll]

IF by that you mean "Home run".

Do you often get your sports metaphors mixed up?

Swing and a miss, that wasn't a baseball metaphor? What, are you like the world's worst golfer? An incompetent carpenter?

Man accused of rape had been deported or removed from the country 19 times


"An illegal immigrant from Mexico who is accused of raping a 13-year-old girl on a Greyhound bus in Kansas had previously left and returned to the United States a combined 19 times.

That's awful and weird of you to share.

Really? You don't see any relevance to the thread topic? Try reading it AGAIN.

 

[Correll]

Arrest, have a trial, fine, and imprison employers that hire illegals. Remove the reason they come.

Trump seems to be creating a huge reason for them to head north, the falling peso, rising dollar, and the likelihood of a recession in Mexico. The reverse flow of illegal immigrants that Trump was counting on has stopped. There is little reason for Mexicans to head home and added reason for Mexicans to head north while Trump plans his big beautiful wall.

The lefty talking point is that Mexico will EASILY be able to replace any trade lost with America.

You are admitting that Trump has leverage over Mexico.

I disagree, lost of trade with the US will hurt Mexico, more than US, it will likely lead to a recession and create a huge incentive for the poor to migrate north and will stop the reverse migration that started about 3 years ago. Mexico will surely retaliate hurting both countries.

Or they could just give US what we want.

What do we really want from Mexico? A check for 15 billion, 25 billion, 35 billion and for what exactly? We really don't know how much money we are trying extort out of them.

Any amount really doesn't seem likely. The GDP per ca-pita in Mexico has been falling and unemployment has been rising for the last 2 years. The stock market is down as is industrial production. About the only thing that is up is up is unemployment and public debt which has risen by 25% in the last 3 years. Currently nearly a half of the population is living in poverty and most the rest are not too far behind. The chance of Mexico yielding to extortion from the US is just about zero and Trump must surely know that.

It's quite likely that if the US continues there threats against Mexico, the country will fall into a deep recession sending millions of poor Mexicans north for US to deal with. Reactions are likely to be against US corporations such as Walmart with 2400 stores in Mexico and several thousand other US businesses in Mexico as well over 2 million US citizens living there.

The DEA activities in Mexico would likely cease as well as cooperation with US immigration. Working agreements with dozens of US agencies from the CDC to the Dept of Commerce would likely cease.

Or, they could give US what we want, the threats stop, trade becomes more mutually beneficial and we start building a healthier relationship where they aren't dicks and we don't enable their dickish behavior.

Cause if Mexico is in the dire situation you describe, maybe their President should work harder to get on our good side.

 

[Correll]

There are ways to make Mexico pay. I'm sure Trump will explore the options. But that being said, at this point i just want it done. Build the wall, secure the border. Do whatever it takes to get it done. I don't wanna hear anymore excuses. If Trump puts in the effort to rebuild Obama's dismantled Immigration System, he'll always have my support.

Trump will face a backlash from congress who has never been very receptive to building a wall. Now if there was an iron clad reimbursement program, I think most republicans would support it. However with a program that Republicans have estimated to cost 15 to 25 billion that could possibly run twice that, it would be a hard sell to congress without guaranteed reimbursement.

Since it took 6 years to build a 700 mile fence, how long would it take to build a 2000 mile wall which would include both fencing and road as well the wall. Since 1000 miles of the wall would crisscross through hundreds of parcels of private property, environmental sensitive areas, and Indian land, court challenges, negotiations, and eminent domain could take years. It really seem unlikely that the project could be complete during Trump's term in office no matter how much Trump pushed it. And we know what would happen to the project once democrats got control of any branch of government.

Republicans in congress can look around at all the republicans in congress and realize that that is because of Trump, and they can give him what he wants.

Or they can piss off all the Trump voters, who happen to be the same voters that elect THEM.

 

[dblack]

The coyotes must be lobby hard for the wall. Their profits will skyrocket!

 

[Correll]

I said it was the latest plan not the only plan. To my knowledge Trump has not put forward an alternate plan other than the Mexican goverment forking over billions of dollars which seems a bit unlikely.

However, the GOP has a plan in which firms that import goods or services from abroad would not be able to count those costs against their overall profits. In effect, corporations would be paying taxes on the value of anything they buy from abroad. This is a rather clever sleight of hand that would allow Trump to claim Mexico is paying for the wall when in reality American corporations and thus consumers would be.

I think what the Trump administration is ignoring is that while they make plans for their great beautiful 2000 mile wall, the Mexican Peso is falling like a rock. The knee jerk reaction is of course, so what. However, the falling value of the peso and thus the rise in value of the US dollar is very likely to stem the tide of the voluntary return of illegal immigrants back to Mexico. This has always been a key part of Trump's deportation plan. As the Mexican economy weakens and tens of millions of Mexicans head north, Trump's beautiful peaceful migration of illegal immigrants south, may well turn into something quite different.

Trump’s spokesman’s ‘easy way’ to make Mexico pay for the wall has been revealed

That's great, but it is not the responsibility of the US - or its taxpayers like me - to provide an economy for the mass poor of mexico to take advantage of. Its time for the Mexican and central american governments to start building functional societies and not depend upon the hated white gringo america to support them.

I agree. However, it should not be the responsibility of Mexico to secure the US boarder just because the US is either too inept or chooses not to spend the money to do so.

Their actions, such as choosing to violate our Sovereignty, is their responsibility.

Keep in mind it is not the goverment of Mexico that violates US Sovereignty, nor is it the 120 million people that live there and never cross our boarder illegally.

Just as the US is not responsible for acts of of a small percent of our citizens abroad, neither is Mexico. I really don't understand why so many people think it's Mexico's responsibility to secure our boarders. Are we really that inept that we need their help?

If our citizens were flowing into Mexico, against the wishes of Mexico, their government would complain and our government would take steps to address the problem.

Mexico is responsible for their actions.

 

[Correll]

An the US mail, Internet transactions, business transactions, and Mexican embassy and consulate diplomatic communications? Nope.

SO do what you can. Right now a lot of money is sent Western Union or Money Gram. They will continue to do it even with a tax because you can send money in minutes

The problem is that there is no way to tell who is an illegal immigrant sending money home. So US citizens and businesses would pay most of the tax. Who knows how illegal immigrants will send money home. The simplest way although not the most secure is to put money in an envelope and mail it come. Keep in mind that about 40% of illegal immigrants are not from Mexico. They are primarily from Central America but can be from any country. Of course any Mexican consulate could carry out the transaction. Also money can wired to almost any country and rewired to Mexico or wherever with an additional fee.

Nobody cares WHERE they're from .... we just want them GONE.

To deport a person, you not only have to know where they originated but their country of origin has to accept them. Our working agreements with Mexico have been very good in the pass. It often takes no more than 24 to 48 hours to complete a deportation. However many countries, some in central American it takes a month and some countries never give permission. It will be interesting to see how Mexico and Central American countries react to Trump deportation plans. By law deportees can only be held 30 days after their deportation order is signed. If they are not deported, then they can ask for a complete review of their case which delays things even longer.

Simply solved .... no return, no foreign aid. Not a single country in Latin America can stand that kind of pressure.

That is STEP ONE.

Refusing to take back your criminal citizens is a serious provocation.

 

[dblack]

I said it was the latest plan not the only plan. To my knowledge Trump has not put forward an alternate plan other than the Mexican goverment forking over billions of dollars which seems a bit unlikely.

However, the GOP has a plan in which firms that import goods or services from abroad would not be able to count those costs against their overall profits. In effect, corporations would be paying taxes on the value of anything they buy from abroad. This is a rather clever sleight of hand that would allow Trump to claim Mexico is paying for the wall when in reality American corporations and thus consumers would be.

I think what the Trump administration is ignoring is that while they make plans for their great beautiful 2000 mile wall, the Mexican Peso is falling like a rock. The knee jerk reaction is of course, so what. However, the falling value of the peso and thus the rise in value of the US dollar is very likely to stem the tide of the voluntary return of illegal immigrants back to Mexico. This has always been a key part of Trump's deportation plan. As the Mexican economy weakens and tens of millions of Mexicans head north, Trump's beautiful peaceful migration of illegal immigrants south, may well turn into something quite different.

Trump’s spokesman’s ‘easy way’ to make Mexico pay for the wall has been revealed

That's great, but it is not the responsibility of the US - or its taxpayers like me - to provide an economy for the mass poor of mexico to take advantage of. Its time for the Mexican and central american governments to start building functional societies and not depend upon the hated white gringo america to support them.

I agree. However, it should not be the responsibility of Mexico to secure the US boarder just because the US is either too inept or chooses not to spend the money to do so.

Their actions, such as choosing to violate our Sovereignty, is their responsibility.

Keep in mind it is not the goverment of Mexico that violates US Sovereignty, nor is it the 120 million people that live there and never cross our boarder illegally.

Just as the US is not responsible for acts of of a small percent of our citizens abroad, neither is Mexico. I really don't understand why so many people think it's Mexico's responsibility to secure our boarders. Are we really that inept that we need their help?

If our citizens were flowing into Mexico, against the wishes of Mexico, their government would complain and our government would take steps to address the problem.

Mexico is responsible for their actions.

Remember the Alamo!

 

[Correll]

Coyotes now charge $250 to $500 leaving from Mexico and $1000 to $1500 from Central American. When the costs rise, then there's the 88,000 miles of US shore line which is virtually unprotected compared to a walled boarder.

Almost 50% of illegal immigrants come into the country legally through work permits and other visas but fail to leave when they expire. The wall will do nothing for this problem except make it harder to leave.

To illustrate how really ridiculous this wall is, consider the following. Pew estimates that the average yearly number of illegal immigrants from all countries entering by all means is 300,000/yr (180,000 crossing our southern boarder). That would amount to 493/day or only one illegal entry for every 4 miles of boarder wall at 7.5 million dolars a mile using McConnell's estimate of the cost of the wall as 15 billion. Do you realize just how expensive and ridiculous this is, particular when you consider that the wall will make it very difficult for the 178,000 that leave every year to do so?
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

Why do you and the other liberals keep groaning about the wall, as if we exist in a vacuum? The wall will be built, AND there will be fines and other measures taken to attack the problem from every other direction.

I'm actually kind of curious as to why they are making such a big deal of it, Myself. After all, if a wall doesn't work, then they really have nothing to fear. The free votes will keep pouring in.

Because they are afraid the Wall WILL work.

 

[Correll]

gn f

Who cares. It isn't as if you do. You are just looking for a way to demean a Republican.

Demean a Republican for lying?

lol

The wall is moving forward. Congress is set to act on providing financing and work will begin in months. No lies in any of that. As I said, you're just out to call names against a Republican. You have nothing of substance to add to anything.

It could be kinda cool. I know people who were present when the Berlin Wall came down. Maybe I'll have the chance to watch this one fall.

Yeah, because people trying to flee the most repressive regime this world has ever seen is the equivalent of a nation trying to protect its own interests. Hey, maybe it will come true for you. America is the land of dreams.

Home of the free, land of the brave, hiding behind a wall.

Fucking ignorant cowards.

Ignoring real danger is not bravery, it is the act of a fool.


Man accused of rape had been deported or removed from the country 19 times


"An illegal immigrant from Mexico who is accused of raping a 13-year-old girl on a Greyhound bus in Kansas had previously left and returned to the United States a combined 19 times.

Tomas Martinez-Maldonado, 38, had been deported 10 times and voluntarily removed another nine times, "

 

[Correll]

That's great, but it is not the responsibility of the US - or its taxpayers like me - to provide an economy for the mass poor of mexico to take advantage of. Its time for the Mexican and central american governments to start building functional societies and not depend upon the hated white gringo america to support them.

I agree. However, it should not be the responsibility of Mexico to secure the US boarder just because the US is either too inept or chooses not to spend the money to do so.

Their actions, such as choosing to violate our Sovereignty, is their responsibility.

Keep in mind it is not the goverment of Mexico that violates US Sovereignty, nor is it the 120 million people that live there and never cross our boarder illegally.

Just as the US is not responsible for acts of of a small percent of our citizens abroad, neither is Mexico. I really don't understand why so many people think it's Mexico's responsibility to secure our boarders. Are we really that inept that we need their help?

If our citizens were flowing into Mexico, against the wishes of Mexico, their government would complain and our government would take steps to address the problem.

Mexico is responsible for their actions.

Remember the Alamo!

I admit we were less friendly to Mexico in the past.

But do you know how those Americans ended up IN Mexico?

 

[dblack]

gn f

Demean a Republican for lying?

lol

The wall is moving forward. Congress is set to act on providing financing and work will begin in months. No lies in any of that. As I said, you're just out to call names against a Republican. You have nothing of substance to add to anything.

It could be kinda cool. I know people who were present when the Berlin Wall came down. Maybe I'll have the chance to watch this one fall.

Yeah, because people trying to flee the most repressive regime this world has ever seen is the equivalent of a nation trying to protect its own interests. Hey, maybe it will come true for you. America is the land of dreams.

Home of the free, land of the brave, hiding behind a wall.

Fucking ignorant cowards.

Ignoring real danger is not bravery, it is the act of a fool.


Man accused of rape had been deported or removed from the country 19 times


"An illegal immigrant from Mexico who is accused of raping a 13-year-old girl on a Greyhound bus in Kansas had previously left and returned to the United States a combined 19 times.

Tomas Martinez-Maldonado, 38, had been deported 10 times and voluntarily removed another nine times, "

But what if the rapist has a ladder?

 

[Correll]

gn f

The wall is moving forward. Congress is set to act on providing financing and work will begin in months. No lies in any of that. As I said, you're just out to call names against a Republican. You have nothing of substance to add to anything.

It could be kinda cool. I know people who were present when the Berlin Wall came down. Maybe I'll have the chance to watch this one fall.

Yeah, because people trying to flee the most repressive regime this world has ever seen is the equivalent of a nation trying to protect its own interests. Hey, maybe it will come true for you. America is the land of dreams.

Home of the free, land of the brave, hiding behind a wall.

Fucking ignorant cowards.

Ignoring real danger is not bravery, it is the act of a fool.


Man accused of rape had been deported or removed from the country 19 times


"An illegal immigrant from Mexico who is accused of raping a 13-year-old girl on a Greyhound bus in Kansas had previously left and returned to the United States a combined 19 times.

Tomas Martinez-Maldonado, 38, had been deported 10 times and voluntarily removed another nine times, "

But what if the rapist has a ladder?

What if he doesn't?

 

[Unkotare]

Weak appeal to emotion = fail

I agree. It's all about appeasing the childish fears of the rednecks. But they vote.

Double fail.

 

[RealDave]

All you lefties are backing off your it won't get built mantra and shifting to a you'll pay for it mantra.

I don't care. Build it.

Let your orange buddy pay for it & he can get reimbursed by Mexico.

 

[Unkotare]

I agree. However, it should not be the responsibility of Mexico to secure the US boarder just because the US is either too inept or chooses not to spend the money to do so.

Their actions, such as choosing to violate our Sovereignty, is their responsibility.

Keep in mind it is not the goverment of Mexico that violates US Sovereignty, nor is it the 120 million people that live there and never cross our boarder illegally.

Just as the US is not responsible for acts of of a small percent of our citizens abroad, neither is Mexico. I really don't understand why so many people think it's Mexico's responsibility to secure our boarders. Are we really that inept that we need their help?

If our citizens were flowing into Mexico, against the wishes of Mexico, their government would complain and our government would take steps to address the problem.

Mexico is responsible for their actions.

Remember the Alamo!

I admit we were less friendly to Mexico in the past.

But do you know how those Americans ended up IN Mexico?

The Alamo is in Texas.

 

[Correll]

Their actions, such as choosing to violate our Sovereignty, is their responsibility.

Keep in mind it is not the goverment of Mexico that violates US Sovereignty, nor is it the 120 million people that live there and never cross our boarder illegally.

Just as the US is not responsible for acts of of a small percent of our citizens abroad, neither is Mexico. I really don't understand why so many people think it's Mexico's responsibility to secure our boarders. Are we really that inept that we need their help?

If our citizens were flowing into Mexico, against the wishes of Mexico, their government would complain and our government would take steps to address the problem.

Mexico is responsible for their actions.

Remember the Alamo!

I admit we were less friendly to Mexico in the past.

But do you know how those Americans ended up IN Mexico?

The Alamo is in Texas.

Now it is.

After Mexico's way of dealing with illegal immigration was to make it legal.

It was a flawed plan. Pretending that Americans were now good Mexicans, didn't work out for them.