Bundy is the Real Endangered Species

[boedicca]

Bundy wasn't polluting water. His cattle were actually performing a vital service - removing burnable debris. One of the NV State Reps noted that the land on which cattle graze is in better shape than nearby federally managed land which burned in uncontrolled wildfires.

This is why we are all fucked. This guy breaks the law and Boe says his law breaking was valuable service.

Boe sounds like the local drug dealer who sees it as not breaking the law but providing a product that is in high demand.

And Boe believes if he talks enough, gives enough excuses, renames law breaking then it will fool everyone into believing his bullshit

What law has Bundy broken? And, if he has broken the law, why hasn't he been arrested for breaking the law?

In fact, why haven't millions of illegals been arrested for breaking the law? Why haven't those pot smokers in Colorado and Washington been arrested for breaking the law? Why hasn't Harry Reid been arrested for his part in the theft of public land?

Your selective outrage shows that you are nothing more than a partisan stooge.

Why hasn't Obama been arrested for not implementing the ACA as written into law?

 

[KNB]

Why hasn't Bush been arrested for torturing POWs to death in secret prisons?

 

[Plasmaball]

Last resort of a loser:

Bring in the race card.

The fuck this have to do with race? History like soap for you?

 

[Erand7899]

bendog is obviously unaware of the fact that the FEDS killed a bunch of tortoises on purpose in order to clear land for the solar panel project.

Hopenchange!

All tortoises are equal, but some tortoises are more equal than others.

Oh THAT was your point in pointing out that tortoises aren't turtles! Sorry, that connection sort of went past me .... three feet outside the strike zone, Marty.

Yes, the two biggest uses the BLM seems to be pushing is conservation and tourism and energy production. To the detriment of grazing. Imagine that, promoting policies to benefit the majority of citizens. NO DOUBT YOU ARE OUTRAGED!!!!

The BLM is not pushing conservation, tourism and/or energy production. That should outrage you, and if it was a Republican administration, I am sure it would outrage you.
Tortises and cattle have been co-existing on that land for over a century without any problems.

This is the BLM placating extremist environmental activists, Democrat supporters, at the expense of cattle ranchers. Pure partisan politics. The BLM land manager is an ex Harry Reid aide. Harry Reid and his son, are in bed with a Chinese company ripping off public lands, managed by BLM, for pennies on the dollar. Pure political corruption.

Move on along, folks, nothing to see here. Just a little political corruption, er I mean just a dispute over grazing fees.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I'm frankly shocked that the BLM would seek to put the land to the most beneficial economic use. Shocked.

This isn't national park land that is set aside for recreational use, this is public land designated for use by commercial activity.

And how is restricting cattle on the land for a tortoise no one eats or really does anything else with economically beneficial?

The federal government has essentially the same property rights to federal land as any private citizen has to his private lands. It's in the Constitution, and supported by case law.

 

[Plasmaball]

Bundy wasn't polluting water. His cattle were actually performing a vital service - removing burnable debris. One of the NV State Reps noted that the land on which cattle graze is in better shape than nearby federally managed land which burned in uncontrolled wildfires.

This is why we are all fucked. This guy breaks the law and Boe says his law breaking was valuable service.

Boe sounds like the local drug dealer who sees it as not breaking the law but providing a product that is in high demand.

And Boe believes if he talks enough, gives enough excuses, renames law breaking then it will fool everyone into believing his bullshit

Wrong as usual.

We are FUCKED because Big Government has enacted so many laws and regulations that We Are All Criminals. But is the law fairly and equally enforced? No.

Instead, the law is used against what used to be law-abiding citizens (until bureaucrats made innocuous behavior illegal) to keep them silent and compliant while real criminals get away with violent felonies.

That is why we are FUCKED.

I blame that terrorist reagan for this....damn his executive orders!

 

[boedicca]

Of course you; you're an utter moron whose viewpoint is unsullied by facts and logic.

 

[Plasmaball]

Wrong as usual.

We are FUCKED because Big Government has enacted so many laws and regulations that We Are All Criminals. But is the law fairly and equally enforced? No.

Instead, the law is used against what used to be law-abiding citizens (until bureaucrats made innocuous behavior illegal) to keep them silent and compliant while real criminals get away with violent felonies.

That is why we are FUCKED.

I'm not I dont have cattle and I dam sure didnt get two chances to stop breaking the law and ignored it. So yeah, he lost in court and he kept on doing the thing that was ruled illegal twice and his reasoning goes like this: "Because I want to and I think I should be able to"

That dont fly with him or the local drug dealer

You sad, gullible little booby.

The laws and regulations are so complicated now that Everyone unknowingly or not breaks the law. It's a design feature for totalitarians...and you enable it.

god you are stupid. A stupid, stupid little person. Its actually really simple. Bundy pays 1.50$ per cow to grave on public land. He pays BLM. He doesnt pay BLM he cant graze on the land.

Now you can choose to ignore Reagan's Executive order on the issue, and federal judges all you like, but you are wrong. You can take away all the terrorist, and criminal labels. Take away what he is "fighting" for and you are wrong.

 

[Plasmaball]

Do we entrust the BLM to de facto ban ranching by setting ridiculously low grazing allowances because of some asshole environmentalists?

Maybe Bundy should go to court?

Oh wait....he already did and lost

Bundy does not get to decide our environmental laws at the end of a gun

Yes, federal laws, federal courts, backing up federal agencies. And you dodged my question as usual.

conspiracy wont save your argument.

 

[boedicca]

When did Reagan's term end and how many Presidents have we had since then? (Here's a clue, there were two Bushes; they're not the same guy).

And I don't recall that Reagan's executive order included language to send in SWAT teams to collect a fine. Please link to that.

TYIAFYC

 

[Erand7899]

You are allowed to lease that federal land...but not for free. And from what I understand, at quite a reasonable price. Try leasing private land for that rate. Or better yet, try leasing private land and then refuse to pay rent for 20 years.

Try having regulation create a de facto ban on your business and see how you react to it. BLM wanted the Ranchers out of the area, so they set the head of cattle limits so low so as to make the herd sizes for each Rancher economically nonviable, thus protecting the wee turtles and putting the ranchers out of business.

Sounds like just another conspiracy theory to me with no substantiating evidence to support it, by the way.

Do you need a guide book, or are you just politically unable to see the evidence.

a. Tortoises and cattle have co-existed on that BLM land for over a century.
b. BLM set a ridiculously low allowance for grazing permits, supposedly to protect the tortoises that did not need any protection. Those low allowances made ranching in that area unsustainable, and 15 ranchers were put out of business. Their ranches became virtually worthless.
c. The BLM land in question is part of an artificial mitigation zone designed to allow a Chinese company to kill tortoises on land they bought from BLM for pennies on the dollar.
d. Harry Reid, and his son, are in bed with this Chinese company.
e. Harry Reid's ex-aide is the BLM land manager in question.

The winners in this conspiracy are Harry Reid, his son, and the Chinese company. The losers are the cattle ranchers who were driven out of business. Do you need a map?

 

[Erand7899]

Bundy can't be an endangered species. If he were, he'd have no friends on the right.

True, but only if we locked up thousands of acres of public and private lands to ensure his survival.

 

[Plasmaball]

Yes, federal laws, federal courts, backing up federal agencies. And you dodged my question as usual.

Federal land

Thats supposed to be available for use by the owners of property nearby, in particular for cattle grazing. Then the BLM placed limits that were a de facto ban on grazing.

You just love sucking federal government dick, don't you.

Today the BLM manages livestock grazing in a manner aimed at achieving and maintaining public land health. To achieve desired conditions, the agency uses rangeland health standards and guidelines, which the BLM developed in the 1990s with input from citizen-based Resource Advisory Councils across the West. Standards describe specific conditions needed for public land health, such as the presence of streambank vegetation and adequate canopy and ground cover. Guidelines are the management techniques designed to achieve or maintain healthy public lands, as defined by the standards. These techniques include such methods as seed dissemination and periodic rest or deferment from grazing in specific allotments during critical growth periods.

meh.....

The Federal grazing fee, which applies to Federal lands in 16 Western states on public lands managed by the BLM and the U.S. Forest Service, is adjusted annually and is calculated by using a formula originally set by Congress in the Public Rangelands Improvement Act of 1978. Under this formula, as modified and extended by a presidential Executive Order issued in 1986, the grazing fee cannot fall below $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM); also, any fee increase or decrease cannot exceed 25 percent of the previous year’s level. (An AUM is the amount of forage needed to sustain one cow and her calf, one horse, or five sheep or goats for a month.) The grazing fee for 2014 is $1.35 per AUM, the same level as it was in 2013.

The Federal grazing fee is computed by using a 1966 base value of $1.23 per AUM for livestock grazing on public lands in Western states. The figure is then adjusted each year according to three factors – current private grazing land lease rates, beef cattle prices, and the cost of livestock production. In effect, the fee rises, falls, or stays the same based on market conditions, with livestock operators paying more when conditions are better and less when conditions have declined.

Bolded-Whoops..Guess Reagan thought this was good enough to continue.
Underlined- Free markets!

 

[Plasmaball]

When did Reagan's term end and how many Presidents have we had since then? (Here's a clue, there were two Bushes; they're not the same guy).

And I don't recall that Reagan's executive order included language to send in SWAT teams to collect a fine. Please link to that.

TYIAFYC

and Bod punts for five yards

 

[rightwinger]

When did Reagan's term end and how many Presidents have we had since then? (Here's a clue, there were two Bushes; they're not the same guy).

And I don't recall that Reagan's executive order included language to send in SWAT teams to collect a fine. Please link to that.

TYIAFYC

How did he treat his Air Traffic Controllers?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Bundy is the Real Endangered Species

We should hope so.

It’s this type of ignorant reactionary extremism that’s the bane of the American Nation; the sooner it’s gone, the better.

 

[Erand7899]

I don't see much difference between Bundy and a farmer or air polluter, whose allotment of water or units of pollution, is regulated, and is subject to being reduced as amounts of water and pollution fluctuate.

California is going to come under pressure to put less emphasis on nature conservation and more on private water consumption. So long as everyone has input, and the ultimate decision reflects some compromise and impartial balance of competing interests, I don't see the gripe.

Though there seem to be posters here who think they have an uninfringable right to pollute water and air so long as the water and air pass through property they own.

I doubt there are any posters here who think they have any uninfringable right to pollute water, and/or air, whether, or not, it passes through their land.

Whenever government agencies make rules that put people out of business, they better have a damn good reason for doing so. Is that concept unreasonable?

I'd disagree as to the beliefs of some fringe folks here, but whatever. To the larger issue, I agree, that when the fed govt, or state, changes a regulatory framework that makes it harder on a guy in a private market, there has to be a good reason.

That was really my point. In California, some farmers will not make it through the drought with reductions in irrigation from rivers and dams. The govt probably will anger sportsmen and environmentalists by allowing the farmers to get more water than the sportsmen and enviros like to see.

The BLM is charged with managing the land so as to protect it while also using it for the most economically benefical use. If I can raise cattle on private land in a feed lot cheaper that Bundy can raise on a free range, he has no right to expect me to subsidize him when there are other uses for the public land that can bring in more revenue.

If cattle could be raised in a feed lot cheaper than Bundy can raise them on public range, there would be no cattle grazing on public lands, they would all be raised in feed lots.

Cattle grazing on public land does not hinder any other use of the land. The public can still use that land for any legitimate purpose, as long as they don't harm the cattle. The public can hike across it. They can camp on it. They can hunt and fish on it, and they can watch birds and wildlife on it. The cattle don't care.

The only ones who care are the extemist environmentalists who want to lock up the public lands, and allow no public use, and crooks who want to steal the public lands. Both are involved in this conflict.

 

[Erand7899]

Why hasn't Bush been arrested for torturing POWs to death in secret prisons?

They are waiting on you to provide the evidence they need. Why are you stalling?

 

[Erand7899]

When did Reagan's term end and how many Presidents have we had since then? (Here's a clue, there were two Bushes; they're not the same guy).

And I don't recall that Reagan's executive order included language to send in SWAT teams to collect a fine. Please link to that.

TYIAFYC

How did he treat his Air Traffic Controllers?

It is a violation of federal law for federal government employees to strike. The Air Traffic Controllers went out on strike. They violated the law.

Reagan gave them warning that if they didn't return to work, they would be fired for violating the law.

The ones that did not return to work were fired. Just like the law required.

End of story.

 

[KNB]

Why hasn't Bush been arrested for torturing POWs to death in secret prisons?

They are waiting on you to provide the evidence they need. Why are you stalling?

https://www.google.com/search?q=gwu+torture&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&channel=sb