Bush and Officials Lied leading up to Iraq war

[jreeves]

if you have proof that over 50% of democrats supported the war, present it. You can infer all you want from your poll, but you cannot substantiate it.

and the point is rather moot in any case. Most Americans realize now that their initial support for this war was misplaced.

and, to their credit, a majority of democrats in congress always knew that it was a bad idea.

And democratic leadership in the Senate didn't find it appaling or terrible misjudgement to go to war or they would have freezed it in committees.....

 

[maineman]

And democratic leadership in the Senate didn't find it appaling or terrible misjudgement to go to war or they would have freezed it in committees.....

that would have been political suicide right before midterms with those 74% of folks thirsting for arab blood.

as it turns out, America has realized what a mistake it was.... and they know, like you and I know, that the republicans in congress were nearly unanimous in their support for this terrible mistake - including the presumptive presidential candidate... and they know that a majority of democrats stood against it. It is one of the reasons why democratic enrollment is up and republican enrollment is down.

 

[maineman]

I did, reputable polling organizations definetly take political persuasion into effect when trying to portray public opinion, therefore 74% of Republicans and Democrats supported overthrowing Saddam

again...you must have slept during your stats class. If 74 % of Americans supported the war, that does NOT mean that 74% of democrats did. Pollsters make sure they try to poll relatively equal numbers of democrats, but to suggest that popular opinion is some homogenous group think that is not variable by political persuasion is ridiculous.

 

[jreeves]

that would have been political suicide right before midterms with those 74% of folks thirsting for arab blood.

as it turns out, America has realized what a mistake it was.... and they know, like you and I know, that the republicans in congress were nearly unanimous in their support for this terrible mistake - including the presumptive presidential candidate... and they know that a majority of democrats stood against it. It is one of the reasons why democratic enrollment is up and republican enrollment is down.

That statement would be totally based on opinion except for the 74%, you know what, I agree with you it was a mistake to go to war...but I believe it was directly in response to bad intelligence...I will give you this, I think the war could have been conducted better than it has, But I don't think Bush, Republicans,Democrats or anybody else for that matter, misled us...It was definetly the intelligence community's failures and Congress as well as Bush are responsible for not having the correct infrastructures in place to ensure we recieved the best intelligence possible.

 

[maineman]

That statement would be totally based on opinion except for the 74%, you know what, I agree with you it was a mistake to go to war...but I believe it was directly in response to bad intelligence...I will give you this, I think the war could have been conducted better than it has, But I don't think Bush, Republicans,Democrats or anybody else for that matter, misled us...It was definetly the intelligence community's failures and Congress as well as Bush are responsible for not having the correct infrastructures in place to ensure we recieved the best intelligence possible.

74% of the people. not 74% of democrats.

Bush started the war. Bush wanted the war. the republicans were nearly unanimous in their support for it. that will hang around their necks...

America is fixing to give the republican party a big "time out" they will have the keys taken away from them and sent to sit in the corner for a while and let the grownups from the other party have a go at it.

Our enemies were, and are, nationless islamic extremists. Our enemies are not the Iraqi people. Invading Iraq was a mistake. staying there continues to be a mistake.

 

[maineman]

oh...one more thing:

That statement would be totally based on opinion

read 'em and weep:

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

 

[jreeves]

74% of the people. not 74% of democrats.

Bush started the war. Bush wanted the war. the republicans were nearly unanimous in their support for it. that will hang around their necks...

America is fixing to give the republican party a big "time out" they will have the keys taken away from them and sent to sit in the corner for a while and let the grownups from the other party have a go at it.

Our enemies were, and are, nationless islamic extremists. Our enemies are not the Iraqi people. Invading Iraq was a mistake. staying there continues to be a mistake.

Those statements are based on opinion. We shall see how the election ends up shaking out. No our enemy isn't the Iraqi people, but the AQ in Iraq is our enemy. That's the reason we can't cut and run.

 

[maineman]

Those statements are based on opinion. We shall see how the election ends up shaking out. No our enemy isn't the Iraqi people, but the AQ in Iraq is our enemy. That's the reason we can't cut and run.

AQ in Iraq is a recent franchise operation started by Iraqis and others who wanted an opportunity to fuck with us and our plans. They have pissed in their own whiskey, so to speak, by killing to many civilians and are getting their asses kicked by Iraqi sunni warlords. We need to leave and let Iraqis solve this thing without an occupying army in their midst.

 

[jreeves]

AQ in Iraq is a recent franchise operation started by Iraqis and others who wanted an opportunity to fuck with us and our plans. They have pissed in their own whiskey, so to speak, by killing to many civilians and are getting their asses kicked by Iraqi sunni warlords. We need to leave and let Iraqis solve this thing without an occupying army in their midst.

Us leaving prematurely would create a vacuum and create a breeding ground for terrorism.

 

[mattskramer]

Us leaving prematurely would create a vacuum and create a breeding ground for terrorism.

Iraq has a new government and political system. It has a police and military. It may be time for American soldiers to leave. Yet, I see your point. MM, what are we to do if there is a coup or if Iraq gets invaded or starts to serve as a breeding ground for terrorists? Wont we then be morally obligated to return?

 

[jreeves]

Iraq has a new government and political system. It has a police and military. It may be time for American soldiers to leave. Yet, I see your point. MM, what are we to do if there is a coup or if Iraq gets invaded or starts to serve as a breeding ground for terrorists? Wont we then be morally obligated to return?

In my opinion, we should leave based on performance of the new Iraqi government. Yes as soon as they show us they are stable and sufficient security, we should leave. We shouldn't set up permanent bases or anything like that.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Iraq has a new government and political system. It has a police and military. It may be time for American soldiers to leave. Yet, I see your point. MM, what are we to do if there is a coup

That's their business if there's a coup. Its their country.

or if Iraq gets invaded

Likely, your talking about iran. If iran invades Iraq, I guarantee you that Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia will go to war to defend Iraq. The iranians are unlikely to do something that stupid. Iran hasn't invaded anybody in centuries. They tend to like to expand their regional influence through more subtle means.

or starts to serve as a breeding ground for terrorists? Wont we then be morally obligated to return?

The we do what we should have done in afghanistan. Surgical strikes and covert ops. Occupying a muslim country breeds more terrorists than it kills. We should have learned that by now.

 

[maineman]

Iraq has a new government and political system. It has a police and military. It may be time for American soldiers to leave. Yet, I see your point. MM, what are we to do if there is a coup or if Iraq gets invaded or starts to serve as a breeding ground for terrorists? Wont we then be morally obligated to return?

there are coups in the world all the time. Our biggest ally in the region kicked out the democratically elected government of Pakistan in a coup. Morally? Our first moral duty is to our own people. The Iraq war is a failure of that duty, IMHO.

 

[jreeves]

That's their business if there's a coup. Its their country.



Likely, your talking about iran. If iran invades Iraq, I guarantee you that Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia will go to war to defend Iraq. The iranians are unlikely to do something that stupid. Iran hasn't invaded anybody in centuries. They tend to like to expand their regional influence through more subtle means.



The we do what we should have done in afghanistan. Surgical strikes and covert ops. Occupying a muslim country breeds more terrorists than it kills. We should have learned that by now.

We've been breeding terrorist in Iraq??


Though largely dismissed by the Democratic left, America's "surge" policy is paying attractive dividends. Al-Qaida in Iraq is in retreat, violence is down and political reconciliation is up.
In a 16-page letter that U.S. soldiers found last October near Baghdad, AQI leader Abu Tariq complained that his 600-man force had dwindled to 20 terrorists.

"We were mistreated, cheated and betrayed by some of our brothers," he moaned, as Sunnis swapped AQI for the U.S. This shift "created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight," another AQI chief whined in his own missive discovered in November near Samarra. His network, he said, suffered "total collapse."

Terrorism is collapsing across Iraq. In February 2007, when President Bush ordered 30,000 additional troops into Iraq — as Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., cheered and Democratic Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois jeered — only 8 percent of Baghdad's neighborhoods were rated secure. That number is now 75 percent. In 2006, coalition troops defused 2,662 terrorist weapons caches. In 2007, they neutralized 6,956. Since June, attacks on U.S. soldiers have slid 60 percent. Meanwhile, sectarian violence fell 90 percent from January to December 2007, sparing Iraqi and U.S. lives alike.


Story continues below

 

[jreeves]

We've been breeding terrorist in Iraq??


Though largely dismissed by the Democratic left, America's "surge" policy is paying attractive dividends. Al-Qaida in Iraq is in retreat, violence is down and political reconciliation is up.
In a 16-page letter that U.S. soldiers found last October near Baghdad, AQI leader Abu Tariq complained that his 600-man force had dwindled to 20 terrorists.

"We were mistreated, cheated and betrayed by some of our brothers," he moaned, as Sunnis swapped AQI for the U.S. This shift "created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight," another AQI chief whined in his own missive discovered in November near Samarra. His network, he said, suffered "total collapse."

Terrorism is collapsing across Iraq. In February 2007, when President Bush ordered 30,000 additional troops into Iraq — as Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., cheered and Democratic Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois jeered — only 8 percent of Baghdad's neighborhoods were rated secure. That number is now 75 percent. In 2006, coalition troops defused 2,662 terrorist weapons caches. In 2007, they neutralized 6,956. Since June, attacks on U.S. soldiers have slid 60 percent. Meanwhile, sectarian violence fell 90 percent from January to December 2007, sparing Iraqi and U.S. lives alike.


Story continues below

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695253568,00.html

 

[RetiredGySgt]

if you have proof that over 50% of democrats supported the war, present it. You can infer all you want from your poll, but you cannot substantiate it.

and the point is rather moot in any case. Most Americans realize now that their initial support for this war was misplaced.

and, to their credit, a majority of democrats in congress always knew that it was a bad idea.

You mean they didn't believe the lies Bush told? The cherry picked Intel? Just how did they know in 2002 t was all Lies and cherry picked ( as you claim) when they had 8 years of Clinton saying the same thing before Bush? When they had all the reports from our allies saying the same thing?

Come on now, which is it? They were lied to and were just so smart they knew better even after 8 years of the same intel OR they were opposed to the war cause Bush proposed it? Irregardless that most of America was for the war?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

that would have been political suicide right before midterms with those 74% of folks thirsting for arab blood.

as it turns out, America has realized what a mistake it was.... and they know, like you and I know, that the republicans in congress were nearly unanimous in their support for this terrible mistake - including the presumptive presidential candidate... and they know that a majority of democrats stood against it. It is one of the reasons why democratic enrollment is up and republican enrollment is down.

LOL what a bald faced lie. Lets recap the "political" situation shall we? If the elections determined the vote then the Democrats in the House should have overwhelmingly supported the vote because EVERYONE of them was up for reelection, while in the Senate only 1/3 of the entire Senate is ever up for reelection each 2 years.

 

[maineman]

LOL what a bald faced lie. Lets recap the "political" situation shall we? If the elections determined the vote then the Democrats in the House should have overwhelmingly supported the vote because EVERYONE of them was up for reelection, while in the Senate only 1/3 of the entire Senate is ever up for reelection each 2 years.

YOU don't acknowledge the fact that many democrats in the house are in relatively safe seats and did not have credible opposition. Many other democrats live in very liberal districts where a majority of their constituents opposed the war. But, I guess mistakes like that are expected from a guy like you who has a little bit of civics class knowledge and not a lot of on the ground politicking experience.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

YOU don't acknowledge the fact that many democrats in the house are in relatively safe seats and did not have credible opposition. Many other democrats live in very liberal districts where a majority of their constituents opposed the war. But, I guess mistakes like that are expected from a guy like you who has a little bit of civics class knowledge and not a lot of on the ground politicking experience.

Sure thing, I notice you can not seem to square your " Bush Lied" with the vote either.

 

[maineman]

Sure thing, I notice you can not seem to square your " Bush Lied" with the vote either.

there has never been, nor will there be, a vote taken on whether or not Bush misled congress. With which vote am I supposed to be squaring anything?

the fact is: I fully explained the house vote to you - where you called me a bald faced liar...and once again, you just weasel away. pathetic.