Bush and Officials Lied leading up to Iraq war

[mattskramer]

Once more for the truly ignprant/ The Congress receives INDEPENDENT briefings and is free to ask for ANY info or brief they want from any source. Irregardless of Maineman's continued claim, LYING to Congress is in fact a crime. Especially if your IN the Government.

So what your claiming is that the idiot Bush some how was smart enough to convince 16 independent agencies to LIE for him to Congress, the premiere one run by a Clinton appointee. That the moron Bush somehow got every Government in the world to LIE for him to Congress. That somehow Bush managed 8 years before even being in office to get Clinton and his Cabinet and officials to LIE for him for the future.

Neat trick that.

So it was bad intelligence. Bush was the one given the responsibility to push the red button. If I were him, I would have insisted or more definitive irrefutable proof and information.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

republicans in congress were all but unanimous in their support for the resolution. A majority of congressional democrats voted against it. Let me say that again: A majority of congressional democrats voted against it.
And THAT is something, as a patriotic veteran, I am very proud of!

Which has nothing to do with your and your buddies repeated claim that everyone in Congress was liued to. Which is it? They were lied to and voted against the war because they were being stubborn pricks, OR they had the intel they wanted and decided it was not all that good? You pick.

 

[mattskramer]

Which has nothing to do with your and your buddies repeated claim that everyone in Congress was liued to. Which is it? They were lied to and voted against the war because they were being stubborn pricks, OR they had the intel they wanted and decided it was not all that good? You pick.

I think that they had the intel they wanted and decided it was not all that good. I suspect that they chose discretion. They were not so “gung-ho” to jump so soon into this foolish war without more definitive absolute proof. Good for them.

 

[jreeves]

a majority of congressional democrats voted against the use of force. Are you going to retract your previous statements that claimed that was not a true statement? yes or no?

and is this accurate or not:

Even if you believed it to be true, if you were to state that there was no doubt that the sun revolved around the earth, that statement would be a lie.

Simple fact, simpleton....the Democrats controlled the Senate and could have prevented a authorization vote from ever going to a vote.....Fact two independent polls said that 74% of Americans supported removing Saddam....not 85% Republicans and 2% of Democrats....Your logic is totally screwed...But keep up the Lie...it's fun to watch

 

[jreeves]

Simple fact, simpleton....the Democrats controlled the Senate and could have prevented a authorization vote from ever going to a vote.....Fact two independent polls said that 74% of Americans supported removing Saddam....not 85% Republicans and 2% of Democrats....Your logic is totally screwed...But keep up the Lie...it's fun to watch

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNgaVtVaiJE&feature=related[/ame]

 

[mattskramer]

Simple fact, simpleton....the Democrats controlled the Senate and could have prevented a authorization vote from ever going to a vote.....

No one is arguing that. It is understood that some democrats authorized it.

Fact two independent polls said that 74% of Americans supported removing Saddam....not 85% Republicans and 2% of Democrats....Your logic is totally screwed...But keep up the Lie...it's fun to watch

That also does not mean that 74 percent of Democrats supported it. The only thing that it says is that 74 percent of Americans supported it.

 

[mattskramer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNgaVtVaiJE&feature=related

So? Some Democrats were wrong. Some Democrats voted for it and some voted against it. Considering congress, as a whole, most Democrats voted against it.

 

[jreeves]

No one is arguing that. It is understood that some democrats authorized it.



That also does not mean that 74 percent of Democrats supported it. The only thing that it says is that 74 percent of Americans supported it.

Your saying that the Gallup and Cbs news are not reptiable polling agencies I guess they both polled nothing but Gop members....and then threw in 2 Democrats just to make it look good....its a statistically impossibility for 74% to support it without a majority of Democrats not supporting it....Come two different polls reached the same conclusion....What did they poll the exact same people??

 

[jreeves]

So? Some Democrats were wrong. Some Democrats voted for it and some voted against it. Considering congress, as a whole, most Democrats voted against it.

And Democrat leadership in the Senate could have ceased the vote in committees and we both know it, so your leadership said it was a justified war....their hypocrites now coming out denouncing the justification for war

 

[mattskramer]

Your saying that the Gallup and Cbs news are not reptiable polling agencies I guess they both polled nothing but Gop members....and then threw in 2 Democrats just to make it look good....its a statistically impossibility for 74% to support it without a majority of Democrats not supporting it....Come two different polls reached the same conclusion....What did they poll the exact same people??

How many times do I need to repeat myself? The poll does not give enough information from which to draw any other conclusion. How many Democrats were asked? Of those Democrats, how many cared to respond give a definitive and honest answer? There is no information other than the fact that 74 percent of Americans supported it. I’m not saying that 74 percent of Democrats supported it or not. I’m saying that the poll does not give enough information from which to make that conclusion. Your last question says it all. I don't know who was polled. There is no demographic breakdown?

Find me a poll that says that 74 percent of American Democrats supported it.

 

[jreeves]

How many times do I need to repeat myself? The poll does not give enough information from which to draw any other conclusion. How many Democrats were asked? Of those Democrats, how many cared to respond give a definitive and honest answer? There is no information other than the fact that 74 percent of Americans supported it. I’m not saying that 74 percent of Democrats supported it or not. I’m saying that the poll does not give enough information from which to make that conclusion. Your last question says it all. I don't know who was polled. There is no demographic breakdown?

Find me a poll that says that 74 percent of American Democrats supported it.

Democrats by your definition are not Americans...these polling organizations take political persuasion into effect...and they want the most accurate picture they can get....do you deny that?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How many times do I need to repeat myself? The poll does not give enough information from which to draw any other conclusion. How many Democrats were asked? Of those Democrats, how many cared to respond give a definitive and honest answer? There is no information other than the fact that 74 percent of Americans supported it. I’m not saying that 74 percent of Democrats supported it or not. I’m saying that the poll does not give enough information from which to make that conclusion. Your last question says it all. I don't know who was polled. There is no demographic breakdown?

Find me a poll that says that 74 percent of American Democrats supported it.

Unless your going to claim that only 26 percent of Americans are democrats and that ONLY republicans were in the 74 percent it is pretty clear that the polls in question INCLUDE democrats and that a MAJORITY of Americans agreed with the war.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I think that they had the intel they wanted and decided it was not all that good. I suspect that they chose discretion. They were not so “gung-ho” to jump so soon into this foolish war without more definitive absolute proof. Good for them.

In other words.... Congress did NOT get lied to, did NOT get cherry picked intel and anyone claiming they did is in fact wrong? Or are you going to spin it some OTHER way?

 

[mattskramer]

Democrats by your definition are not Americans...these polling organizations take political persuasion into effect...and they want the most accurate picture they can get....do you deny that?

Oh good God. Am I communicating with a 10th grader? I’m sorry but this is getting to be absurd. There is a class called Americans. Within that class there are subclasses. One subclass is called Democrats and another Subclass is called Republicans. An American might be a Democrat. An American might be a Republican. All American citizens who are Democrats are Americans but not all Americans are Democrats. When I speak of Democrats, it does not mean that I am not speaking of Americans. Along with a basic course in statistics and testing and measurement, a course in understanding Venn diagrams might help you. It is as if I’m to say “go back to school and then maybe we can discuss polls and surveys.

 

[mattskramer]

In other words.... Congress did NOT get lied to, did NOT get cherry picked intel and anyone claiming they did is in fact wrong? Or are you going to spin it some OTHER way?

A great many polling services also provide detail about their sample data. They give demographics. They give sample size. They tell you the breakdown of the sample, race, gender, area of the nation, and political preference. I have not seen any of that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

A great many polling services also provide detail about their sample data. They give demographics. They give sample size. They tell you the breakdown of the sample, race, gender, area of the nation, and political preference. I have not seen any of that.

Congress... not a poll. Stick with me here. You have stated that Democrats in the House had the intel they needed and did not support the war from said intel. Yet Maineman and buddies ( and you have too) have claimed over and over that Congress was lied to, that Congress received cherry picked intel.

Which is it?

 

[jreeves]

Oh good God. Am I communicating with a 10th grader? I’m sorry but this is getting to be absurd. There is a class called Americans. Within that class there are subclasses. One subclass is called Democrats and another Subclass is called Republicans. An American might be a Democrat. An American might be a Republican. All American citizens who are Democrats are Americans but not all Americans are Democrats. When I speak of Democrats, it does not mean that I am not speaking of Americans. Along with a basic course in statistics and testing and measurement, a course in understanding Venn diagrams might help you. It is as if I’m to say “go back to school and then maybe we can discuss polls and surveys.

But your avoiding the question....I took a course in statistics....I understand statistics very well...74% from two independent polls are stronger evidence than just one....Also, are you denying that polling organizations takes political persuasion into effect when trying to potray public opinion??????????????

 

[maineman]

But your avoiding the question....I took a course in statistics....I understand statistics very well...74% from two independent polls are stronger evidence than just one....Also, are you denying that polling organizations takes political persuasion into effect when trying to potray public opinion??????????????

if you have proof that over 50% of democrats supported the war, present it. You can infer all you want from your poll, but you cannot substantiate it.

and the point is rather moot in any case. Most Americans realize now that their initial support for this war was misplaced.

and, to their credit, a majority of democrats in congress always knew that it was a bad idea.

 

[jreeves]

if you have proof that over 50% of democrats supported the war, present it. You can infer all you want from your poll, but you cannot substantiate it.

and the point is rather moot in any case. Most Americans realize now that their initial support for this war was misplaced.

and, to their credit, a majority of democrats in congress always knew that it was a bad idea.

Nice way to back...thank you

 

[jreeves]

if you have proof that over 50% of democrats supported the war, present it. You can infer all you want from your poll, but you cannot substantiate it.

and the point is rather moot in any case. Most Americans realize now that their initial support for this war was misplaced.

and, to their credit, a majority of democrats in congress always knew that it was a bad idea.

I did, reputable polling organizations definetly take political persuasion into effect when trying to portray public opinion, therefore 74% of Republicans and Democrats supported overthrowing Saddam